Man Detained In Thailand Over Jonbenet Death

[tomchaam]

I remember all of those folks who forgot that your are innocent until proven guilty. The PARENTS were not guilty...no way. I knew the father, John Ramsey. And the mother....poor soul accused of making her daughter a playgirl with the beauty pageants...and now deceased....may her soul and that of her daugheter R.I.P. Karr is still innocent until proven guilty. The mother died as a result of her second confrontation with ovarian cancer. I saw the family's home overlooking Lake Charlevoix. And I watch in sympathy when her father ran for a seat in the Michigan congress. What a HORROR to live throught! Her father and mother are innocent people who have lived died through horrible accusations. Let's let the justice system give the benefit of the doubt to Karr.

[fruittbatt]

[Don't know what you mean by ugly iceburg, I think this is good , to get the paedophiles where they belong; Behind bars!

I mean there are probably a lot of creepy rock-spiders throughout SEA who are never brought to justice because they are largely "invisible"...and I agree with you completely.

[jaloochapurr]

Accused US child killer: It was an accident

- An American school teacher accused of murdering a 6-year-old beauty queen in a case that caused a sensation in the United States in 1996 said he "loved her" and that it was an "accident" after his arrest by Thai police, the director of immigration police General Suwat Tumrongsiskul said Thursday.

The 41-year-old suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey murder, John Mark Karr, appeared nervous when presented to a crowded joint US-Thai press conference Thursday. Karr shied away from photographers.

He was apprehended after an investigation involving "lots of people, lots of agencies working for a long time," said Ann Hurst, attache for the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency.

The former California school teacher has admitted to killing 6-year-old Ramsey and will face charges of murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault in Colorado, Thai officials said.

Ms Hurst said he had been tracked for three weeks before his arrest Wednesday by Thai police, working with the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Karr will be extradited to Colorado within days to face investigation and trial on charges of premeditated murder, kidnap and abuse of a minor, she added.

Karr appears to have lived a solitary, nomadic life roaming across the world, especially Asia, without returning to the United States for several years. He has been in Thailand for two months and recently applied for a job as an English teacher.

When officers seized him in his small, central Bangkok apartment he rebutted the charge of first-dgree murder. "It was not first-degree, it was second degree. It was an accident," General Suwut quoted Karr as saying when he was arrested.

"I loved her," Karr was quoted as saying later.

Although Karr is not known to have committed any crime in Thailand, investigators in the US have established possible links to a crime committed earlier in California. No more details were provided.

The strangulation murder of JonBenet in Boulder, Colorado, caused a sensation in the United States after police investigators and much of the press and the public appeared to decide that she was killed by her ambitious parents. The killer left a ransom demand but hours later her body was found in the basement of her home.

Before her death the child had been entered in several beauty contests by her former beauty queen mother and businessman father. This prompted one US newspaper to describe her as "a painted baby, a sexualized toddler beauty queen."

A score of books, including one by the parents, have been written about the murder and its aftermath in the last decade.

The police in Colorado told Julie Hayden, a television reporter for Denver's Channel 7, in the days following the murder, that they were not scouring the area looking for "some mad kidnapper," but instead, were concentrating their efforts on the parents, John and Patsy Ramsey. The police, however, never presented any evidence against them.

The investigation is being led by the District Attorney's office in Boulder, Colorado.

The parents had been consulted during the investigation of Karr, but mother Patsy Ramsey died of ovarian cancer in June.

"Patsy was aware that authorities were close to making an arrest in the case and had she lived to see this day, would no doubt have been as pleased as I am with today's development almost 10 years after our daughter's murder," John Ramsey said in a statement.

[jaloochapurr]

BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) -- A former American school teacher said publicly Thursday he was with JonBenet Ramsey when she was killed and called the 6-year-old's death "an accident," a stunning admission that should help answer 10 years of questions in the unsolved murder case.

John Mark Karr, 41, will be taken within the week to Colorado, where he will face charges of first degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault, Ann Hurst of the Department of Homeland Security told a news conference in Bangkok.

"I was with JonBenet when she died," John Mark Karr told reporters afterward, visibly nervous and stuttering as he spoke. "Her death was an accident."

Asked if he was innocent of the crime, Karr said: "No."

Karr confessed to the killing after his arrest Wednesday at his downtown Bangkok apartment by Thai and American authorities, said Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, head of Thailand's immigration police.

He said Karr insisted his crime was not first-degree murder but that she died during a kidnapping attempt that went awry.

"He said it was second-degree murder. He said it was unintentional. He said he was in love with the child, she was a pageant queen," Suwat said.

Karr declined to say what his connection was to the Ramsey family. Dressed in a turquoise polo shirt and khaki trousers, he appeared ashen with an expressionless look on his face.

JonBenet was found beaten and strangled in the basement of the family's home in Boulder, Colo., on Dec. 26, 1996.

Wednesday's arrest was a surprise development in one of America's most lurid murder cases, which had left a cloud of suspicion over her family after years went by with no arrests. Some feared the case would never be solved.

Striking video images of the blonde-haired girl in child beauty pageants helped propel the case into one of the highest-profile mysteries in the United States.

A law enforcement source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the AP that Karr had been communicating periodically with somebody in Boulder who had been following the case and cooperating with law enforcement officials.

A University of Colorado spokesman, Barrie Hartman, said journalism professor Michael Tracey communicated with Karr over several months and contacted police. The university spokesman said he didn't know what prompted Tracey to become suspicious of Karr.

Tracey produced a documentary in 2004 called "Who Killed JonBenet?" A woman who answered the phone at a number under his name said he didn't live there anymore; his office phone mailbox was full.

The Ramseys learned that police were investigating Karr at least a month before the June death of JonBenet's mother, Patsy Ramsey, of ovarian cancer, the family said.

In a statement Wednesday, father John Ramsey said that if his wife had lived to see Karr's arrest, she "would no doubt have been as pleased as I am with today's development almost 10 years after our daughter's murder."

Suwat quoted Karr as saying he tried to kidnap JonBenet for a $118,000 ransom but that his plan went awry and he strangled her. Patsy Ramsey reported finding a ransom note in the house demanding $118,000 for her daughter.

Investigators said at one point that JonBenet's parents were under an "umbrella of suspicion" in the slaying, and some news accounts cast suspicion on JonBenet's older brother, Burke. But the Ramseys insisted an intruder killed their daughter, and no one was ever charged.

Over the years, some experts suggested that investigators had botched the case so thoroughly that it might never be solved. The Ramseys moved back to Atlanta after their daughter's slaying.

"It's been a very long 10 years, and I'm just sorry Patsy isn't here for me to hug her neck," said Lin Wood, the family's longtime attorney.

"John and Patsy lived their lives knowing they were innocent, trying to raise a son despite the furor around them," Wood told MSNBC.

Over the years, some experts suggested that investigators had botched the case so thoroughly that it might never be solved. The Ramseys moved back to Atlanta after their daughter's slaying.

"It's been a very long 10 years, and I'm just sorry Patsy isn't here for me to hug her neck," said Lin Wood, the family's longtime attorney.

"John and Patsy lived their lives knowing they were innocent, trying to raise a son despite the furor around them," Wood told MSNBC.

Suwat said U.S. authorities informed Thai police on Aug. 11 that an arrest warrant had been issued for Karr on charges of premeditated murder. The warrant was sent to Thai police on Wednesday.

"Through investigation we were able to determine where his residence was and the Thais arrested him," Hurst said. "He did not resist. He did express surprise."

Hurst said Karr has been "very cooperative" with authorities and that he's shown a "variety of emotions."

Suwat said Karr arrived in Bangkok on June 6 from Malaysia to look for a teaching job. It was not clear whether he had gotten a job, the police officer said.

Karr's visa has been revoked as an "undesirable person" given the accusations against him, and U.S. authorities were expected to take him to the United States in the next few days, Suwat said.

Hurst, with the department's U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in Bangkok, said that Karr had left the United States several years ago and had not returned.

The immigration and customs office had assisted the Boulder County District Attorney's Office and the Royal Thai Police in the investigation.

The suspect, who has been in Thailand five times over the past two years, was being detained by immigration police pending arrival of U.S. officials, Suwat said.

When asked how he could travel for so many years in Asia, and whether he was independently wealthy, Hurst responded, "We're asking the same questions."

Police said Karr had been living in a dormitory-style hotel called The Blooms in a neighborhood of massage parlors and travel agents that cater to expatriate residents and sex tourists. The nine-story hotel offers rooms for as short as three-hour rentals.

The district attorney in Boulder, Mary Lacy, said the arrest followed several months of work.

She said Karr, who had traveled extensively across the world, may also be connected to a prior case in Santa Rosa County, Calif. She did not provide further details.

Sonoma County Chief Deputy District Attorney Joan Risse confirmed the child pornography charges and arrest warrant against a John Mark Karr, though she cautioned that she didn't know if he was the same person held Bangkok. State records show Karr lost his teaching credential in 2002.

[tomchaam]

And if Karr is proven guilty with a 12 person jury with DNA and other evidence...will all those of you who have accused and proved the parents guilty post an apology???

Edited August 17, 2006 by tomchaam

[rijkard]

Police said Karr had been living in a dormitory-style hotel called The Blooms in a neighborhood of massage parlors and travel agents that cater to expatriate residents and sex tourists. The nine-story hotel offers rooms for as short as three-hour rentals.

anyone ever heard of this place? is it in kao sahn?

[jdinasia]

i rather doubt that anyone ever posted an opinion on a website that didn't exist 10 years ago tom .......

[Boo]

I have followed this case from the day she was killed. If this guy is he guilty party then he should be punished will the full force of the law. Does colorado has the death penalty?

Jon benets poor parents have lived with a cloud over their head for 10 years & at one point the brother was considered a suspect even though he was only 8 or 9 years old at the time of the murder. If this guy has lived free for 10 years whilst the family has sufered then I wish him to rot in hel_l.

[Thai-Spy]

Police said Karr had been living in a dormitory-style hotel called The Blooms in a neighborhood of massage parlors and travel agents that cater to expatriate residents and sex tourists. The nine-story hotel offers rooms for as short as three-hour rentals.

anyone ever heard of this place? is it in kao sahn?

It might be this place:

The Blooms Residence

203/1 Soi Sribamphen

Yen-Arkard Road

Chongnonsee, Yannawa, Bangkok

It appears in quiet a few hostel and hotel guides.

It's in the Thung Mahamek police district, and west of the railroad tracks, south of Rama IV Road and east of Sathorn Rd.

[backflip]

tomchamm,

"The former California school teacher has admitted to killing 6-year-old Ramsey..."

There goes your argument that he's innocent...

[Thai-Spy]

Here's an early stand-alone article that ties into the case. We may expect many more.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060816/ap_on_...land_pedophiles

In countries such as Thailand, child sexual exploitation builds on a long-standing and vast prostitution industry, and thrives where law enforcement is weak or corrupt. That sex with young teens is not a strong taboo in some Asian cultures makes fighting the problem even more difficult.

However, earlier in the same article:

U.S. officials identified the suspect as John Mark Karr, a 42-year-old American, and said he was already being held in Bangkok on unrelated sex charges.

Since we can't place the American authorities above attempting to try this case in the press, we should wait to see if the Thai authorities confirm it.

[taxout]

As budget places in Bangkok go, the Blooms is a clean, respectable, well-run place; the monthly rentals are particularly good value.

Problem is the location's not much convenient: turn left at The Malaysia Hotel then dodge the traffic to the end of a long, narrow soi.

[shotover]

Police said Karr had been living in a dormitory-style hotel called The Blooms in a neighborhood of massage parlors and travel agents that cater to expatriate residents and sex tourists. The nine-story hotel offers rooms for as short as three-hour rentals.

anyone ever heard of this place? is it in kao sahn?

ThaiSpy and Taxout seem to have identified the correct hotel. I'm not that familiar with the neighborhood around the Blooms and Malaysia hotel, other than what I've read in travel books. The Malaysia Hotel formerly had a reputation as being popular for budget travelers, drug users, and gays, but that was years ago. This area preceded Khao San Road as a backpacker destination. No idea who stays there now.

Curious as to whether the neighborhood description of "massage parlors and travel agents that cater to expatriate residents and sex tourists" is currently accurate, or the sensationalism of naive journalists. I suspect the latter. This description was in an AP article written by Sutin Wannabovern.

Edited August 17, 2006 by shotover

[taxout]

By Bangkok standards it's a fine, respectable neighborhood.

If you're fresh off the plane from Boulder, you might see it a bit differently.

[animatic]

Even in France this story was getting newsplay for the last

10 years. Though mostly through Larry King/CNN

and reality police / most wanted shows.

A very notorious and high profile killing in the USA,

about 1 notch below OJ. He has admited on TV being there,

and so it seems a pretty foregone conclusion he will be convicted.

But I got a hint that others may have been involved too.

We'll see.

But if it is all correct, it is real nice to not have one more loose nutter.

Especially around here, with so many available targets,

for what appears to be his mind set.

All in all I think the Ramsey family should have gotten A LOT more

in that out of court settlement with the police detective who

wrote a book acusing Patsy of doing it and John of covering it up.

Totally irresponsable, money grubbing, ex-cop, making money on,

his inability to do his job, his inept concusions, and their misery.

I hope he roasts in hel_l in his own time.

Edited August 17, 2006 by animatic

[Meg_2003]

I hope they let him torture slowly in Jail. No death penalty, its not painful enough for him. He looks a right pervert looking at him on the news. A very sly looking man. Rot in hel_l.

[patekatek]

Fine. Now that they caught the bastard and they have his confession, do you think Colorado or the Feds will execute him? Will some shrink testify that Karr is controlled by voices in his head and should be committed to an institution for the insane for the rest of the life? Perhaps the Thai and US governments could work out a financial deal that would keep Karr in a Thai prison for the rest of his life. I'm sure his time would be much more "enjoyable" in a Thai facility. I can just see the famous defense attorneys lining up to represent this dog. Just like OJ Simpson's defense team.

[LoveDaBlues]

John Mark Karr, an American primary school teacher, is escorted from a news conference in Bangkok August 17, 2006. The suspect over the murder of six-year-old beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey during Christmas 1996 has said her death was an accident, a senior Thai policeman said on Thursday. REUTERS

John Mark Karr aka 'pencil-neck'

[LoveDaBlues]

tomchamm,

"The former California school teacher has admitted to killing 6-year-old Ramsey..."

There goes your argument that he's innocent...

There have already been numerous people who confessed to this killing. At this point he's just another one. Innocent people confess to murders all the time; especially high profile cases.

[Douggie Style]

After reading what has been posted here and this article the case gets even more confusing:>

General Suwat later told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa that under questioning Karr said he had chloroformed the child so that he could rape her in the basement of her home. "He told us that after sex he realised he had accidently killed her," the general said. "He also told us that they loved each other. She was 'his' beauty queen," he added.

Even after Karr's arrest the former Allegheny County Coroner, Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Thursday that he still believed the parents were responsible because there was no forensic evidence to implicit an intruder.

Ref: The Nation at http://www.bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=112279

I don’t recall there being talk of a rape originally and if so what about the foreign DNA?

[sriracha john]

* deleted identical post submitted 37 seconds earlier by Douggie Style...

Edited August 17, 2006 by sriracha john

[Boon Mee]

So, any y'all TELfer's know this creep?

[Jockstar]

Its all over CNN and Thai TV.

[shotover]

tomchamm,

"The former California school teacher has admitted to killing 6-year-old Ramsey..."

There goes your argument that he's innocent...

There have already been numerous people who confessed to this killing. At this point he's just another one. Innocent people confess to murders all the time; especially high profile cases.

Good point LDB. A strange thing about his confession is that the Thai Immigration Police General quotes Karr as confessing that he "he picked JonBenet up at her school and brought her to the family’s basement". Not consistent with the facts known about the case, as the murder occurred Christmas night (school holidays during this period).

Maybe a translation mistake, Thai police embellishment, or Karr's fantasy trip.

[LaReina]

After reading what has been posted here and this article the case gets even more confusing:>

General Suwat later told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa that under questioning Karr said he had chloroformed the child so that he could rape her in the basement of her home. "He told us that after sex he realised he had accidently killed her," the general said. "He also told us that they loved each other. She was 'his' beauty queen," he added.

Even after Karr's arrest the former Allegheny County Coroner, Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Thursday that he still believed the parents were responsible because there was no forensic evidence to implicit an intruder.

Ref: The Nation at http://www.bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=112279

I don’t recall there being talk of a rape originally and if so what about the foreign DNA?

When the story first aired, there was talk of JonBennet having been sexually assulted and that there was DNA evidence in her underwear.

This still does not clear up several things that made her family look guilty.

1. Her father moving her body from the scene of the crime instead of immediately calling the police.

2. Her mother finding the ransom note and then her father finding her body SEVERAL hours later. I mean, how big was their house?

3. The fact that the ransom note (2.5 pages) was written on paper from their house. I mean that is pretty gutsy to write a note while in a persons house!

4. The parents refusal to take a polygraph test.

So the next question is... did one of the parents know this guy? Was this a case of abduct my child, and I will file an insurance claim and you will return her, and we will be all the richer? But then things went terribly wrong? kind of like "man on fire"

[jdinasia]

After reading what has been posted here and this article the case gets even more confusing:>

General Suwat later told Deutsche Presse-Agentur dpa that under questioning Karr said he had chloroformed the child so that he could rape her in the basement of her home. "He told us that after sex he realised he had accidently killed her," the general said. "He also told us that they loved each other. She was 'his' beauty queen," he added.

Even after Karr's arrest the former Allegheny County Coroner, Dr. Cyril H. Wecht, told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette Thursday that he still believed the parents were responsible because there was no forensic evidence to implicit an intruder.

Ref: The Nation at http://www.bangkokpost.net/breaking_news/breakingnews.php?id=112279

I don’t recall there being talk of a rape originally and if so what about the foreign DNA?

foreign dna on her underwear ....

[Thai-Spy]

It was difficult to follow the timing of all the announcements today. Did Mr. Kerr make his on-camera admission before or after Pol. Gen. Suwat announced that Mr. Kerr had confessed?

[sonnyJ]

So not guilty untill proven othervise? Right?

I guess thai police will make it very easy for you to confess what ever.

Yes there was lots of samples of foreign DNA collected of the poor girls body, non matched the closest relatives. So will be a simple case if he's guilty.

So far, there's no proof what so ever. Only talk. So can the hang mob keep patient please? Will carry a death penalty in Colorado defenately..

[sriracha john]

Karr, a Globe-Trotting Teacher

The American school teacher arrested for the killing of JonBenet Ramsey apparently claimed to have a globe-trotting history of teaching assignments in online resumes he purportedly posted to seek work abroad giving English lessons.

The resumes of a John Karr are posted on at least two Web sites based in South Korea and Los Angeles. They appear with the picture of a man who strongly resembles 41-year-old John Mark Karr, who appeared before reporters Thursday in Thailand a day after his arrest.

Karr admitted he was with JonBenet when she died in 1996 and claimed it was an accident, a breakthrough in a case that many thought would never be solved.

The resumes suggested Karr traveled the globe teaching as a private tutor and at schools in Europe, Asia and Central America the past several years, though none of the positions the resumes claim he held could be immediately verified.

One English-language institute where Karr's resume was posted removed it from its Web site Thursday in response to a reporter's query, citing concerns about bad publicity.

The Seoul-based GnB English institute said it never employed Karr and that the Web page on which he posted his resume was open for postings by anyone looking for teaching jobs.

"We have never even interviewed him," said Um Dae-jin, an official at GnB in Seoul.

The resume was posted June 22, 2005, and has a photo of Karr in a blue and yellow sweater crouching down at a table next to a young girl.

The posting says Karr worked in Seoul as an English teacher for children ages 6-12 and that duties included "conducting classes as the sole teacher in the classroom, making assignments and issuing grades."

No school name was given, and South Korean immigration officials declined to confirm if Karr had ever entered the country.

According to the site, Karr also worked as a volunteer English teacher at a school in Heemstede, Netherlands.

The resume also claims Karr was employed "in some of the most prestigious schools in the United States, working with children from high-profile families" between 1996 (the year JonBenet was killed) and 2001.

At a Los Angeles-based Web site for recruiting English teachers to serve abroad, a resume with Karr's name on it features the same photo as the Korean site and similar wording. No date of the posting is given, and the company running the site couldn't be immediately reached for comment.

The resume says Karr was in Asia from 2001-02 and lists additional teaching work from 2004-05 in Honduras. It also says Karr taught English to executives in Costa Rica.

The posting also says Karr worked as a private teacher and caregiver in Germany and the Netherlands, apparently for three families with young children from 2002-03.

The posting doesn't name the German cities where he worked but later mentions Munich and Stuttgart as places he had visited. Prosecutors in both of those cities said Thursday that they had no record of any investigation involving Karr.

The posting also boasts of travels to many other cities, including London; Paris; Amsterdam, Netherlands; Zurich, Switzerland; Milan, Italy; Osaka, Japan; Seoul, South Korea; Sydney, Australia; Singapore; Taipei, Taiwan; and Istanbul, Turkey.

In addition to teaching, the resume says Karr can play several unspecified musical instruments, that he writes poetry and also has acting ability.

From 1981-96, the resume says Karr ran a private rental business and restored Victorian mansions.

Associated Press

[ronz28]

Police probably have already done DNA tests. They have known about this guy since at least June. There has been plenty of time to do a couple of DNA tests to confirm he is the murderer.