My new Saltwater pool in Surin

[Naam]

I don't have to believe. I'm not buying anything of substance except a new laptop each year I go back to USA. My 100 cc Honda was old when I bought it that was almost 10 years ago. I rent a house with 2 air conditioners -- both work fine. I paid to have them serviced before Songkran. The maintenance of my 30 meter salt water pool is someone else's problem though I see they often have about 100 50 kg sacks of pool salt on hand.

As long as the Boeing engineers haven't lied too much about the 777 I'll be taking over the Pacific next year, I'll be happy. Other than that, the world really sucks, doesn't it?

disappeared Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 was a 777

So was the one shot down by a SAM missile over Ukraine but I don't see most likely that was because Boeing's Marketing people are bullsh-t artists.

No one as yet can say the MH370 crash was the result of a wacko Malaysian pilot but the Germanwings 9525 Flight certainly was the result of a wacko German pilot.

you are taking a joke (even though not applicable when a couple of hundred people die) at face value. loosen up and keep on believing that toothpaste X prevents tooth decay. washing powder Y makes your shirts whiter than white and using an inverter aircon in your bedroom causes your partner to demand more sex

note: there are liars, blatant liars, lying bastards and marketing people!

[JLCrab]

So if I reverse the wires on the inverter air conditioner, will it cause my partner to demand less sex because she demands too much already?

[Naam]

what you have missed is that shocking the pool has nothing to do with any chemical water balance or preventing/getting rid of visible contaminants such as algae. your "balance" in this respect may be perfect but does not affect the potential built-up of bacteria which are immune to normal chlorination.

You mean bacteria that are resistant to 3ppm free chlorine, in a well balanced pool?

You often make things up as you go?

when an ignorant resorts to personal attacks instead of doing a little research it's actually best not to react. but in certain cases (when other parties are interested to acquire knowledge) a reaction is justified.

Infections from chlorine-resistant pool parasite are on the rise, CDC says

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2015/06/infections-chlorine-resistant-pool-parasite-are-rise-cdc-says

Cryptosporidium, for instance, can survive for up to 10 days in a properly chlorinated pool, and other pathogens are completely resistant to chlorine.

http://www.nachi.org/pool-water-pathogens.htm

[Naam]

So if I reverse the wires on the inverter air conditioner, will it cause my partner to demand less sex because she demands too much already?

just reversing won't work. you have to increase the AC "Hertz" cycle to exactly 54.95. as the Thai public grid supplies only 50Hz you have to get the missing 4.95Hz during your next trip to the U.S. where 60Hz can be found galore. use a normal socket to drain the appropriate amount, pack in dry ice and wrap it thoroughly to keep it fresh

[JLCrab]

So if I reverse the wires on the inverter air conditioner, will it cause my partner to demand less sex because she demands too much already?

just reversing won't work. you have to increase the AC "Hertz" cycle to exactly 54.95. as the Thai public grid supplies only 50Hz you have to get the missing 4.95Hz during your next trip to the U.S. where 60Hz can be found galore. use a normal socket to drain the appropriate amount, pack in dry ice and wrap it thoroughly to keep it fresh

Too complicated -- guess I'll just have to put up with the nympho.

[Anthony5]

You mean bacteria that are resistant to 3ppm free chlorine, in a well balanced pool?

You often make things up as you go?

when an ignorant resorts to personal attacks instead of doing a little research it's actually best not to react. but in certain cases (when other parties are interested to acquire knowledge) a reaction is justified.

Infections from chlorine-resistant pool parasite are on the rise, CDC says

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2015/06/infections-chlorine-resistant-pool-parasite-are-rise-cdc-says

Cryptosporidium, for instance, can survive for up to 10 days in a properly chlorinated pool, and other pathogens are completely resistant to chlorine.

http://www.nachi.org/pool-water-pathogens.htm

Great links, but they speak about public pools where chlorine effectiveness can be an issue because combined chlorine levels can rise fast and which makes the chlorine ineffective.

In the first article there is no mention about proper chlorine levels at all, while in the second article they speak about pools maintained at 1ppm.

bacteria, such as E. coli, shigella (which causes dysentery), campylobacter and salmonella. Bacteria are generally killed quickly by chlorine disinfectant in properly maintained swimming pools at a concentration of 1 part per million. E. coli, for instance, will be inactivated in less than one minute if exposed to typical disinfectant concentrations;

Did you notice I mentioned 3ppm

You may also have noticed that they specify the causes why those bacteria are present in those PUBLIC pools.

Feces are a particular danger in pools, as the pathogens they contain are typically present in enormous numbers, approaching a million per gram of feces. A single fecal release in a pool could contaminate millions of gallons of water, according to the University of Arizona's College of Public Health. Large outbreaks of disease are uncommon and they don’t typically happen in residential settings

• In 1998 in Georgia, 26 people were sickened after swimming in a pool with a child who had E. coli. Seven people were hospitalized and one was killed by the outbreak. The pool’s chlorine level had not been adequately maintained.
• In New Mexico in 2008, a competitive swimmer who ignored symptoms of diarrhea caused 92 swimmers, including other competitive swimmers, coaches and lifeguards, to contract the illness.
• In 2001 in an Illinois water park, 358 people contracted diarrhea, despite adequate chlorine and pH levels. Swimmers can add up to several pounds of feces per day in a typical water park.

Now I agree if you use your pool as your private toilet, I advise you indeed shock it every 3 months, I have some hygiene tough and don't need that.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Anthony5

[Anthony5]

And why should a pool be shocked 3-4 times a year.

I must have missed something because I have shocked my pool with SWG only 1 time in 5 years, and the water balance is just perfect now.

The one single time I needed to shock it was because there was an issue with the SWG settings and it had gathered black algae due to low chlorine level.

Of course if you don't keep the water balance up to level you'll need to shock it every so often.

what you have missed is that shocking the pool has nothing to do with any chemical water balance or preventing/getting rid of visible contaminants such as algae. your "balance" in this respect may be perfect but does not affect the potential built-up of bacteria which are immune to normal chlorination.

You mean bacteria that are resistant to 3ppm free chlorine, in a well balanced pool?

You often make things up as you go?

I know you've already found this before, just adding to the conversation...

Talking about free chlorine levels without also talking about CYA levels is pointless. 3PPM chlorine could be more than enough to kill any bacteria, or it could be woefully inadequate.

http://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/2177-Chlorine-CYA-Chart

In the past, I have said here on these forums that I've never shocked my pool. I was wrong... I actually do it quite regularly, I just didn't know that's what I was doing

I intentionally keep my CYA levels very low - too low to even register a color change on the Aquachek strips (i.e. not zero, but well under 30PPM). Whenever I've had a big swimmer load (parties etc), I run my chlorinator at 100% overnight, which runs FC up to around 10PPM. I now know that's 'shocking' it (before I found that chart above, I had the idea that a 'shock' was more like 20+ PPM). The great thing about that is, to bring it back down to ~3PPM, all I need to do is leave the chlorinator off in a few hours of sunlight

Yes I should have mentioned that I keep my CYA levels under 50 ppm.

I wonder about the size of SWG and your pool if you are able to run your FC up to 10 ppm overnight.

Your chlorinator must be massive.

[IMHO]

IMHO

Whenever I've had a big swimmer load (parties etc), I run my chlorinator at 100% overnight, which runs FC up to around 10PPM. I now know that's 'shocking' it (before I found that chart above, I had the idea that a 'shock' was more like 20+ PPM). The great thing about that is, to bring it back down to ~3PPM, all I need to do is leave the chlorinator off in a few hours of sunlight

something does not fit. there's no way that free chlorine drops from 10 to 3ppm in just a few hours due to sun radiation except... if your pool's depth at the deep end is 20cm and at the shallow end 5cm

Sure it does, when you have next to no CYA in there. In fact, with no CYA at all, it will lose *all* it's FC in a single day.

[IMHO]

Yes I should have mentioned that I keep my CYA levels under 50 ppm.

I wonder about the size of SWG and your pool if you are able to run your FC up to 10 ppm overnight.

Your chlorinator must be massive.

1mg/hr per 1K litres - on 'normal' days it runs for 4-8 hours (depending on time of year & weather) at 30-40% to maintain FC levels.

[Anthony5]

Yes I should have mentioned that I keep my CYA levels under 50 ppm.

I wonder about the size of SWG and your pool if you are able to run your FC up to 10 ppm overnight.

Your chlorinator must be massive.

1mg/hr per 1K litres - on 'normal' days it runs for 4-8 hours (depending on time of year & weather) at 30-40% to maintain FC levels.

I never knew that an SWG's capacity was calculated that way. An SWG is nromally specified by how many grams/hour it can produce at 100% setting.

The largest residential SWG's have a capacity of around 35gram/hour

So since you still don't mention the size of your pool it is difficult to calculate.

But a average pool of 50.000 liter ( 50.000 kg of water) would need to create 500gram of chlorine gas to increase the level by 10ppm.

That mean the largest residential SWG would have an almost impossible task to do this overnight on a 50Q pool

As for your claim that 10 ppm of FC can evaporate on a days sunlight.

A pool with next to no CYA will use on average about 1.5 / 2ppm of chlorine over a full day sunlight, so clearly something wrong in your calculations or test results.

Edited August 18, 2015 by Anthony5

[IMHO]

Yes I should have mentioned that I keep my CYA levels under 50 ppm.

I wonder about the size of SWG and your pool if you are able to run your FC up to 10 ppm overnight.

Your chlorinator must be massive.

1mg/hr per 1K litres - on 'normal' days it runs for 4-8 hours (depending on time of year & weather) at 30-40% to maintain FC levels.

I never knew that an SWG's capacity was calculated that way. An SWG is nromally specified by how many grams/hour it can produce at 100% setting.

The largest residential SWG's have a capacity of around 35gram/hour

So since you still don't mention the size of your pool it is difficult to calculate.

But a average pool of 50.000 liter ( 50.000 kg of water) would need to create 500gram of chlorine gas to increase the level by 10ppm.

That mean the largest residential SWG would have an almost impossible task to do this overnight on a 50Q pool

As for your claim that 10 ppm of FC can evaporate on a days sunlight.

A pool with next to no CYA will use on average about 1.5 / 2ppm of chlorine over a full day sunlight, so clearly something wrong in your calculations or test results.

sorry, yes, gm/hr, not mg/hr

I estimate my CYA levels around 10-20 PPM, and it will still lose 3PPM+ if I don't run the chlorinator. For the first few months before I used any CYA (April-July 2014), I was running it for 12 hours @ 80% to maintain 3PPM. Do the math on that I guess?

Note: on a solar chart of TH, my house is in a bright red zone, not one of the those yellow or green ones - that's probably a factor too.

[Anthony5]

Yes I should have mentioned that I keep my CYA levels under 50 ppm.

I wonder about the size of SWG and your pool if you are able to run your FC up to 10 ppm overnight.

Your chlorinator must be massive.

1mg/hr per 1K litres - on 'normal' days it runs for 4-8 hours (depending on time of year & weather) at 30-40% to maintain FC levels.

I never knew that an SWG's capacity was calculated that way. An SWG is nromally specified by how many grams/hour it can produce at 100% setting.

The largest residential SWG's have a capacity of around 35gram/hour

So since you still don't mention the size of your pool it is difficult to calculate.

But a average pool of 50.000 liter ( 50.000 kg of water) would need to create 500gram of chlorine gas to increase the level by 10ppm.

That mean the largest residential SWG would have an almost impossible task to do this overnight on a 50Q pool

As for your claim that 10 ppm of FC can evaporate on a days sunlight.

A pool with next to no CYA will use on average about 1.5 / 2ppm of chlorine over a full day sunlight, so clearly something wrong in your calculations or test results.

sorry, yes, gm/hr, not mg/hr

I estimate my CYA levels around 10-20 PPM, and it will still lose 3PPM+ if I don't run the chlorinator. For the first few months before I used any CYA (April-July 2014), I was running it for 12 hours @ 80% to maintain 3PPM. Do the math on that I guess?

Note: on a solar chart of TH, my house is in a bright red zone, not one of the those yellow or green ones - that's probably a factor too.

Difficult to do the math if you keep mysterious about the capacity or model/type of your SWG and the size of your pool.

[Naam]

Now I agree if you use your pool as your private toilet, I advise you indeed shock it every 3 months, I have some hygiene tough and don't need that.

yada-yada-yakety-yak... what part of "other pathogens are completely resistant to chlorine" is it you don't understand?

[IMHO]

Difficult to do the math if you keep mysterious about the capacity or model/type of your SWG and the size of your pool.

I have 1gm/hr of chlorinator capacity (at 100% output) for every 1000L of pool volume. Should be pretty easy to apply a multiplier to that so you can compare against your own experiences?

e.g. if you want to compare it to a 65K litre pool, work on the chlorinator being 65gm/hr. If you want to compare it to a 15K litre pool, work on the chlorinator being 15gm/hr. Brand/model of chlorinator has nothing to do with it I guess, but if you must know it's an AIS unit: http://aiswater.com.au/products/autochlor-classic-rp-series-2

I thought I was making it nice and simple

Edited August 18, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

Yes I should have mentioned that I keep my CYA levels under 50 ppm.

I wonder about the size of SWG and your pool if you are able to run your FC up to 10 ppm overnight.

Your chlorinator must be massive.

1mg/hr per 1K litres - on 'normal' days it runs for 4-8 hours (depending on time of year & weather) at 30-40% to maintain FC levels.

I never knew that an SWG's capacity was calculated that way. An SWG is nromally specified by how many grams/hour it can produce at 100% setting.

The largest residential SWG's have a capacity of around 35gram/hour

So since you still don't mention the size of your pool it is difficult to calculate.

But a average pool of 50.000 liter ( 50.000 kg of water) would need to create 500gram of chlorine gas to increase the level by 10ppm.

That mean the largest residential SWG would have an almost impossible task to do this overnight on a 50Q pool

As for your claim that 10 ppm of FC can evaporate on a days sunlight.

A pool with next to no CYA will use on average about 1.5 / 2ppm of chlorine over a full day sunlight, so clearly something wrong in your calculations or test results.

OK, there you go....

A 50,000 litre pool, with a 50gm/hr chlorinator only needs to run for 10 hours overnight to hit 10PPM. Glad we sorted that one out

As for residential chlorinators max'ing out at 35gm/hour - refer to the link I posted before

As for my pools ability to lose 5+ PPM in a day (I never said it will lose 10PPM in a day - re-read), I dunno.. level of solar radiation in my area? color of my pool? depth of the water? chemical balance? daily chlorine kills that get in the water? el nino? All I know is what I see

[sappersrest]

Remember the term balanced water is only a term used to describe wether the pool water is neither corrosive or scale forming .It has absolutely nothing to do with disinfection ,cynic acid .

Cryptospyridium can survive chlorine levels of 10 ppm , 35 ppm are required to neutralise the ocyst. the only form of disinfect to completely eradicate it is ozone or UV light on the germicidal spectrum.

Good filtration will however filter it out as the cyst is so large .

[Naam]

Remember the term balanced water is only a term used to describe wether the pool water is neither corrosive or scale forming .It has absolutely nothing to do with disinfection ,cynic acid .

Cryptospyridium can survive chlorine levels of 10 ppm , 35 ppm are required to neutralise the ocyst. the only form of disinfect to completely eradicate it is ozone or UV light on the germicidal spectrum.

Good filtration will however filter it out as the cyst is so large .

that's why i installed this beauty:

[Naam]

OK, there you go....

A 50,000 litre pool, with a 50gm/hr chlorinator only needs to run for 10 hours overnight to hit 10PPM. Glad we sorted that one out

As for residential chlorinators max'ing out at 35gm/hour - refer to the link I posted before

As for my pools ability to lose 5+ PPM in a day (I never said it will lose 10PPM in a day - re-read), I dunno.. level of solar radiation in my area? color of my pool? depth of the water? chemical balance? daily chlorine kills that get in the water? el nino? All I know is what I see

perhaps a rare combination of el Niño and la Niña when Thai Lent and Ramadan overlap?

[Naam]

IMHO

Whenever I've had a big swimmer load (parties etc), I run my chlorinator at 100% overnight, which runs FC up to around 10PPM. I now know that's 'shocking' it (before I found that chart above, I had the idea that a 'shock' was more like 20+ PPM). The great thing about that is, to bring it back down to ~3PPM, all I need to do is leave the chlorinator off in a few hours of sunlight

something does not fit. there's no way that free chlorine drops from 10 to 3ppm in just a few hours due to sun radiation except... if your pool's depth at the deep end is 20cm and at the shallow end 5cm

Sure it does, when you have next to no CYA in there. In fact, with no CYA at all, it will lose *all* it's FC in a single day.

could it be that not only the CIA but KGB and Mossad are involved too?

[IMHO]

Remember the term balanced water is only a term used to describe wether the pool water is neither corrosive or scale forming .It has absolutely nothing to do with disinfection ,cynic acid .

Cryptospyridium can survive chlorine levels of 10 ppm , 35 ppm are required to neutralise the ocyst. the only form of disinfect to completely eradicate it is ozone or UV light on the germicidal spectrum.

Good filtration will however filter it out as the cyst is so large .

that's why i installed this beauty:

UV pool.jpg

Im imagining that's a monster UV tube that generates ozone and/or just irradiates pathogens?

What was the cost, and what's the max. flow rate?

Edited August 18, 2015 by IMHO

[Anthony5]

Now I agree if you use your pool as your private toilet, I advise you indeed shock it every 3 months, I have some hygiene tough and don't need that.

yada-yada-yakety-yak... what part of "other pathogens are completely resistant to chlorine" is it you don't understand?

yada-yada-yakety-yak the part that says that they are NOT completely resistant to chlorine, because pathogens only can resist longer but not indefinitely

Since this thread is about residential pools and pathogens enter the water through feces, and you claim that every residential pool should be shocked several times a year, that mean you have constantly feces in your pool?

I thought most residential pool owners could control that matter, sorry to hear that you can't

Or which part of the quote from your own link that says "they don’t typically happen in residential settings" is it that you don't understand

[Naam]

Remember the term balanced water is only a term used to describe wether the pool water is neither corrosive or scale forming .It has absolutely nothing to do with disinfection ,cynic acid .

Cryptospyridium can survive chlorine levels of 10 ppm , 35 ppm are required to neutralise the ocyst. the only form of disinfect to completely eradicate it is ozone or UV light on the germicidal spectrum.

Good filtration will however filter it out as the cyst is so large .

that's why i installed this beauty:

UV pool.jpg

Im imagining that's a monster UV tube that generates ozone and/or just irradiates pathogens?

What was the cost, and what's the max. flow rate?

there's some ozone generation as a by-product but the main purpose is pathogen killing by UV radiation. when things are technical i tend to go a wee bit overboard and selected a flow rate of 480l/min although the net flow capacity of my 2½hp pool pump (considering all resistance) is barely 350l/min.

seven years ago the cost was € ~700.-, replacement UV tube is ~€ 500.- (radiation loss after 5,000hrs down to 75%, 8,000hrs 50%, suggested replacement after 10-12,000 hours of operation according to manufacturer).

estimated hours of operation since installation ~7,000 because my daily pump running time is extremely low (indoor pool, no outdoor contamination by birdshit, toads, crocodiles and the like).