Are the 250/300 bikes still relevant?

[dave_boo]

Why? The newer CBR150 is about the same size as 250/300 bikes.

So maneuverability in the city traffic should be the same as 250/300 but there's extra power in 250/300 that can always be put to use.

150 weight less but not significantly less to make any real difference, not for me anyways.

IMHO

The only reason I see for someone buying a 150 is if they're on a tight budget but still want a "big bike".

The CBR150 weighs 138kg. The 250 weighs 166. 30 kg is a hell of a lot of weight for a little bike. It's a lot for big bikes.

The only reason I see for someone buying a 250 is if they're on a tight budget but still want a "big bike". Works also.

Never rode anything but a dirt bike at 250cc so can't say.

Street bikes - went from a Kawa 90, just like the old GTO's here, to a Kawa H1

For me in the city, my PCX works fine. No shifting, 2.02 liter per 100 km

At my height, riding a 250/300 sports-styled bike, I would look like I was trying to fornicate a football.

A valid point about how one appears....

Well app. 65.000 baht differences between cb300f and cb500f is a lot of money for some (roughly 2000$) and not just a couple of bottles of whiskey as OP is mumbling about, unless is some collectors items whiskey, LOL.

I seen people buying the Wave without electric starter because it's slightly cheaper without it and before that, buying the front drum model (dis-continued now, I think) for same reason. Yes I know crazy but for many Thais, every single baht counts.

There was one guy in the cb300f tread that sold his cb500x and got the cb300f instead, experienced rider but prefer the 300 for his needs.

So, yes I believe there is a big market for the 300cc models here in Thailand.

What about serious off-roading, 250-300cc is the best for that.

The talk about the bottles of whiskey was per month...keep up man...unless you're trying to keep the discussion moving along and I can appreciate that.

For serious off-roading there is nothing in the affordable bracket none-the-less (and I'm limiting that to 400K and less for my purposes).

For serious off-road it can be argued that 250-300 isn't enough. My dirtbike is a 450 and the smaller bikes revving their guts out where I can pretty much idle through stuff.

That's the one style of bike I haven't really rode. Buzzed around a bit with a very old, very nackered, Honda 250 of my friend during my teens and nothing since.

[dave_boo]

Not everyone wants a bigger, heavier, faster bike. In my years of riding, I have had 40 different bikes of all sizes, up to and including Harleys and six-cylinder Kawasakis. But nowadays, I prefer the smaller and easy to handle bikes. I don't care about going a million miles an hour any more. Been there. Done that.

Little bikes are fun, too.

Yes they can. My point is that there can be odd classes of bikes that don't really make sense. I want to be disabused of the notion that the 250/300 is that class and actually makes sense to be around.

Well,simple anwser:I believe the more choice the better, relevant or not, when manufactures/dealers don't see a future/market for them they will be discontuinued.

In the light off-road/motard section of the market 250's are still the only available/affordable choice ( KLX/CRF)

There I would love to see more choice: like you had in the past: the XL's, XT's, DR's and KLR's ( 250's 300's,250's, 400's, 500's,600's and even the infamous Dr BIG ( 800cc single)

But it looks like that kind of bigger singles are replaced by the various adventure bikes ( versys and the like) which are more road/tour orientated.

At least States side you can still get the XL650. Still air cooled mill that has been around forever and simple to work on.

I don't care much for the small 250/300 sport bike range...too much plastic for my taste. The Kawa Z250 is OK though.

What I would like to see is a motard styled bike with a 300-500 engine. Now that would get my heart pumping!

Would be interesting; I don't know of any single cylinder bike in that range (exception the anaemic CB300 engine and SR400) that any manufacturer is currently using in their road bike that could be adapted. Of course they COULD clean sheet an engine.....

[dave_boo]

Yes absolutely, the more choices the better.

If you see what they can buy in Germany and the UK among other places, I just wish we have the same options here, I mean at made in Thailand prices.

It is thankfully getting better by the year, as somebody mentioned the Er6 was launched here in 2009 as the only real cheap big bike back then, well okay we had the cbr150 but not what I would call a big bike.

So off-course the 250/300cc bikes are still relevant, as Duchbike mentioned, the more choices, the better.

I may want a Versys 650 tomorrow but I might want a cb300f in 5 years time, who knows?

Why spend so much on such a bike when for a bit more you can get so much more?

Well it is almost all said and done... emerging themes, Choice, options, flexibility, rider's abilities

I fit too fit the profile of an experienced bike owner and rider.. Mainly Kawasaki and Honda.. dirt and street. my two favorite bikes .. the KZ 750..and the SL 350..can you remember back that far..

Now the 250-300cc discussion.. I started out in Thailand too with the 150cc because that was all I could find in my area, and I frankly I was a little intrigued with riding a smaller bike. Around town, perfect to zip around, on the freeway, stay far away...lack of power and size. In-fact I still have it.. and debating whether to sell it or keep it..

IMO, the 250-300cc bike feels and of course, bikers will not admit it, more like what we expect in a bike, the lowest power... stance, we will accept. at about 30 horses of power, that is sufficient for us to "geetee up"

We are the breed that want the speed, the rush of air, the sense of balance that our riding abilities thrill us or draw upon in an immediate challenge...Man, just look at the recent upload of max pro filming... I really enjoy and yet cringe at the Bangkok rider(s) that seem to challenge the streets, cars, and go for it on the ride...a <deleted> attitude...only to realize, they have accepted this is how they want to ride... and it is the 250-300cc class that gives the Western rider this sense of motor..cycling... attitude...(OK..European too)

Price and upkeep... really, does it matter... we shall get the bike we want and have the bike taken care of, as the bike is our precious.. baby.. just how many hours do we spent looking over, taking care of the bike ourselves..

A different breed..

Thus, the marketing people and the cycle corporations...did the research, found the theme, and gave us want we want...

Soon, in Thailand..."coming soon" the California version of the "jet motorcycle is coming to Thailand" and how many of us, will be waiting.. like we are for the 250-300cc cycles to arrive so we can "cruise the line"

Up on the pegs..

Well said.

I wish there were more choices for mid range sports bikes. If sports bikes are your thing then the 250/300cc range here is your best bet. What mid sized sports bikes are available at normal prices?

No R6, no ZX6. The ER6n, Ninja 650, Honda CBR500, CBR650 Ducati monster aren't really sports bikes. Yes they are more powerful than say a Ninja 300, CBR300 or maybe the new R3 but are they more fun?

People say it's hard work changing gear all the time to get the best out of the mini sports bikes but I don't mind that at all, it's part of the fun. I don't really want to just be in cruise control all the time simply because my bike has the power to be ridden that way, otherwise I may as well have just bought a scooter.

Is it not more fun to ride a smaller bike flat out than ride a bigger bike at 50% all the time?

Smaller bikes are cheaper to run. Maybe not so much in fuel when compared to the Honda 500 series but a fair amount in other things. There's quite a difference in insurance, tyres are much more expensive, chains and sprockets etc The price difference is quite large too. 70,000B+ is not small change. Finance has been mentioned but I'd say many 'farangs' here can't get finance anyway and most pay in cash.

R6/ZX6/CBR600/GSXR6 are all supersports. And you pay for that technology. Pricing of 'consumables' is an interesting point; as the smaller bikes run 525 chains same as the 500s there should be little to no difference between the sprockets/chains. Don't know that the tyre argument can be made either as it costs pretty much exactly the same for Pirellis on either my Ninja 250 or CB500X.

And for these bikes, both the 250/300 and the 500s to have come, the locals had to buy them...not just us expats. And they DO finance.

My first bike in thailand was a cbr150 too. Great bike for the city anf can tour all around.

And i was not thinking on upgrading it here but again bitten by the bike bug and get bored and upgraded.

I was recommensing cbr250 for my beginner friends before. But after honda 500 series are released, i just recommend 500 series.

500 series are only 30 kg heavier than 250s.

It is nearly as flickable and nimble as 250.

Its power delivery is tamed very well for beginners - or for experienced.

It is a bigger bike with lots of room for an occasion and comfy two up trips.

It has enough power to keep you entertained for a long time. Longer than an 250 cc engine can offer.

Price difference is also not that bad. Just you pay 1/3 more for a 500 but nealry get a double bike.

Fuel consumption of a 250cc was close to 500cc. Especially if you push 250cc, it might run more.

Spare part and service prices are not very different too.

500 series have more power to keep you out of trouble.

I believe honda did a great first bike or a bike that can serve experienced riders too.

What I've been saying.

[dave_boo]

I have to say that driving my Yamaha 400 SR always puts me in a great mood. Only has 24 horsepower, around 6 shy of what a CBR 300 puts out I believe. It is supremely comfortable, shifts very smoothly and it will get in between cars nearly as well as my Yamaha Nouvo Elegance will. It feels great, and due to its modest power I suppose there will be a lot less wear on the chain and other components. I love this bike, vibration, lack of electric starter and all. So what's the relevance of 250 to 300 c.c. bikes? In my opinion here in Thailand they are a lot more relevant than the much larger bikes and no doubt are a lot more fun to drive.

A good point that the torque is king for that style of bike. And the RWHP difference between the SR400 and CB300 is a whopping 2 HP btw.

[BoneRanger]

I don't care much for the small 250/300 sport bike range...too much plastic for my taste. The Kawa Z250 is OK though.

What I would like to see is a motard styled bike with a 300-500 engine. Now that would get my heart pumping!

Yep. An adult size Honda MSX with a 300cc or 500cc would sell like hotcakes.

[Nebula]

As these motorcycles are made for the locals and then if there r foreigners around to buy this is a plus. From this point of view how many thai boys are queueing at big wing for thr 500 and up? Among the hundreds of people who buy scooters every day across the country there are those who buy or dream to be able to buy the 300 cc options. The big motorcycles and the 300 have no free down which in reality is more expensive but is often the chosen option. Then comes the financing. How many choices one have at Big Wing? Certainly the local dealer is the easier and more accessible option for financing. There will be a big local bank as in Big Wing but also another finance company that can accept more risky customers and also the dealer can offer financing. The latter more likely in the province.

There was a rumour someone mentioned here long ago that the dealers will sell the 500 range...obviously they wont.

[dave_boo]

As these motorcycles are made for the locals and then if there r foreigners around to buy this is a plus. From this point of view how many thai boys are queueing at big wing for thr 500 and up? Among the hundreds of people who buy scooters every day across the country there are those who buy or dream to be able to buy the 300 cc options. The big motorcycles and the 300 have no free down which in reality is more expensive but is often the chosen option. Then comes the financing. How many choices one have at Big Wing? Certainly the local dealer is the easier and more accessible option for financing. There will be a big local bank as in Big Wing but also another finance company that can accept more risky customers and also the dealer can offer financing. The latter more likely in the province.

There was a rumour someone mentioned here long ago that the dealers will sell the 500 range...obviously they wont.

In 2557 Honda had 20,740 >151cc bikes registered. In 2556 44,179. In 2555 34,542. In 2554 5,428.

In 2554 the Honda CBR 250 became widely available. I am not sure what caused the massive explosion in 2555, but in 2556 the 500 series was released.

Sure seems to me that, even with the market saturation, the 500cc+ bikes are what's carrying Honda's 'big bike' line.

[mania]

So, as the 150 bikes are better city bikes and the 500cc+ bikes are better out of the city...where does that leave the 250/300?

In the hands of those that specifically want them

The owner of CM Kawasaki is a very good rider & of course has his choice of any bike Kawasaki makes.

He currently rides a Z250 nicely done in Blue

He also has a very nice modified Ninja 250

I don't see the problem with having choices & do not see the quarter liter bikes leaving anytime soon.

If bigger is always better why for instance does the pinnacle of motorcycle GP racing still have a 250 class?

No not just for new racers as many stay in that class for much if not all of their race career

Quarter liter bikes have a certain head to them. Not all will get that or understand what that is & some measure things mainly in straight line speed or torque

but there is much more to it. As such as I said I think this class/size is not going anywhere .... & why should it?

It is not like we can have too many choices or they do not sell extremely well.

[seedy]

To push the displacement limits a little ...

When the RD350 came out it made a lot - if not all - of the larger displacement bikes sit up and take notice

[Nebula]

Honda aims to sell 6,600 big bikes in 2015. Last year, 15,960 big bikes were sold here, a 22% increase over a year earlier, with AP Honda selling 5,498 units.

I couldnt find other but in 2012 they were aiming to sell 5000 units of CBR 250.

If someone else can add for the other makers then may be can have some picture.

[BSJ]

As always you ride what you can afford to ride....or if your more financial what tickles your fancy. Small displacement bikes are OK, probably better around town, but out on the highway a bigger heavier bike is the best choice.

[papa al]

To push the displacement limits a little ...

When the RD350 came out it made a lot - if not all - of the larger displacement bikes sit up and take notice

I'd love to see that...

...a lot of bikes 'sitting up' and taking notice...hard for me to visualize.

Photos please.

[BoneRanger]

As always you ride what you can afford to ride....or if your more financial what tickles your fancy. Small displacement bikes are OK, probably better around town, but out on the highway a bigger heavier bike is the best choice.

I ride in town 90% and my 15hp honda scooter is just right.