How has Thai culture changed, and how is it changing?

[ChrisB87]

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• Thais have their own living space, except the ones who are leeching from the farang. My father-in-law says, "My house is my house. Your house is your house"
• My GF loves that i am "keyneow" - why would she want me to blow all our savings???? The only ones who use that phrase in a bad way are the gold digging leeches.

Does your wife know that you have a GF?

Of course! Look how well integrated I am!

[YeahSiam]

 

When I left 8 years ago I had the feeling that Thais had generally changed in their attitude to foreigners, but not in a positive way.

 

I like their attitude to foreigners. They're not

unduly rude to strangers but, increasingly, they're

no longer a nation of smiling sycophants content to

turn a blind eye to poor behaviour in return for a

miserly gratuity from a troglodyte who thinks his

holiday money automatically endows him with class.

[Jungle Jim]

Mass tourism and the poor quality of the foreigners flooding into Thailand has destroyed the Thailand i once knew. And sadly the government wants more foreigners. The government seriously needs to rethink its policies concerning foreigners. The millions of very questionable foreigners pouring into this place is destroying it.

A lot of the social problems Thailand faces now stem from the Asian Economic Crisis of 1997. Prior to this Thais were a lot more respectful, cultured and better educated and also had a future to look forward to because Thailand had been booming up until this point.

The AEC caused a whole generation of Thais to miss out on decent schooling and their parents also had problems providing for them.

Thailand is now having to deal with this lost generation whose future is bleak in a job market that hasn't really seen a salary increase in over 20 years.

Totally agree.

I am not sure a lot of foreigners understand the sheer impact 1997 had on the thai people of all social economic classes ( except the elite). To see my work colleagues almost traumatized by the loss of their jobs ( unheard of previously) lower income families getting into debt etc..suicides when they got ill etc..

The whole country seemed to change, then the onset of mass tourism, the influx of retirees, the poor quality of the foreigners who came thereafter. The whole dynamic of the thai/ foreigner relationship also changed.

Place is unrecognizable.

As all countries have I suppose.

[Jungle Jim]

Troglodyte is too kind of a word for both men and women. The foreigners flooding in are disgusting . The sex tourists/alcoholics and Full Moon Party morons are proof as to why things have gotten so bad.

 

When I left 8 years ago I had the feeling that Thais had generally changed in their attitude to foreigners, but not in a positive way.

 

I like their attitude to foreigners. They're not
unduly rude to strangers but, increasingly, they're
no longer a nation of smiling sycophants content to
turn a blind eye to poor behaviour in return for a
miserly gratuity from a troglodyte who thinks his
holiday money automatically endows him with class.

[mitsubishi]

A lot less farang beer bar culture now than there was back then. It still goes on but there's less wild and free-wheeling ways that seemed to be constantly on the go.

Going into bars now in Thailand and it's a lot more stale and sterile compared to ten years ago. No smoking in many of the air-con bars allowed. A lot of bars that opened were closed down. 2008 recession cut off a lot of farang, others moved on elsewhere etc.

[geronimo]

A lot less farang beer bar culture now than there was back then. It still goes on but there's less wild and free-wheeling ways that seemed to be constantly on the go.

Going into bars now in Thailand and it's a lot more stale and sterile compared to ten years ago. No smoking in many of the air-con bars allowed. A lot of bars that opened were closed down. 2008 recession cut off a lot of farang, others moved on elsewhere etc.

The bars were something else in the 80's and 90's.

[wow64]

The biggest cultural changes since I have been here are the Cultural Mandates.. 12 of them in total.

Either your sarcasm is a very special kind of dry, or I don't get your meaning. The 12 edicts were passed between 1939 and 1942.

Maybe you have not kept up to date but I think he might have been referring to Prayut's core values.

Ah, yes. Thanks, was puzzled there a moment, thought there was a joke I might be missing out on. Cheers.

Yes a bit dry... The 12 mandates were passed back in 39-42 but we have some new ones from last year which Siam in 1939 would be proud of..

Sent from my c64

[ATF]

Mass tourism and the poor quality of the foreigners flooding into Thailand has destroyed the Thailand i once knew. And sadly the government wants more foreigners. The government seriously needs to rethink its policies concerning foreigners. The millions of very questionable foreigners pouring into this place is destroying it.

A lot of the social problems Thailand faces now stem from the Asian Economic Crisis of 1997. Prior to this Thais were a lot more respectful, cultured and better educated and also had a future to look forward to because Thailand had been booming up until this point.

The AEC caused a whole generation of Thais to miss out on decent schooling and their parents also had problems providing for them.

Thailand is now having to deal with this lost generation whose future is bleak in a job market that hasn't really seen a salary increase in over 20 years.

Totally agree.

I am not sure a lot of foreigners understand the sheer impact 1997 had on the thai people of all social economic classes ( except the elite). To see my work colleagues almost traumatized by the loss of their jobs ( unheard of previously) lower income families getting into debt etc..suicides when they got ill etc..

The whole country seemed to change, then the onset of mass tourism, the influx of retirees, the poor quality of the foreigners who came thereafter. The whole dynamic of the thai/ foreigner relationship also changed.

Place is unrecognizable.

As all countries have I suppose.

Jim the problem is not only in Thailand it's Worldwide. There is some sort of social experiment underway, instigated by whom I don't know, to create an underclass. Huge numbers of people in the US are living on food stamps and can't afford basic health insurance or care. In the UK people and families are living on charitable food hand outs because they cannot get social security for whatever reason. Conditions like this have not been seen since rationing in WWII. The gap between rich and poor has increased dramatically over the last 10 years or so.

Thailand is forced to keep wages low to compete and the tourist industry has sold itself short. I believe the only way for Thailand to improve is to raise prices and increase the quality of it's product. This is the only way that Thailand can attract the Quality Tourists it so desires. Unfortunately this will put an end to the employment of a lot of people working the low end sector, but things can't carry on the way they are. Thailand is now getting cheap and nasty, but it's still good if you can afford to enjoy it's better side.

[Yooyung]

A few excerpts from a book I wrote..

"Assume a virtue, if you have it not." William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

People of a certain culture or society have unique common customs and beliefs. They share inherent values and social paradigms that characterize and differentiate their peoples. Each culture evolves over thousands of years. A cultural template is painfully and gradually developed, superimposed like a hard- drive into the psyche of the cultural member. Individuals share attitudes and behaviors - concomitant to the very fabric of their being. Humans in different cultures evolve in different ways, therefore have different attitudes toward situations. Western and Eastern attitudes, psychology, social patterns and philosophy are frequently polar opposites - diametrically opposed. Consider the difference of western and eastern philosophy regarding life and death. The following is an excerpt from "Kamikaze, Japan's Suicide Gods," by Albert Axell and Hideaki Kase: "The psychology behind the Kamikaze attacks was too alien to us.

People in Western and Thai culture generally operate under a different set of norms - rendering the cultures diametrically opposed to each other. For example westerners hate being late, while Thais are much more laid back regarding timelines. People are molded and shaped by their respective societies. Unique and deeply held views of a given culture become so innate - that individuals are not overtly conscious of their own instinctual and behavioral tendencies. Westerners and Thais employ different ways to communicate complex social imperatives. For the unaware, the culture - contrast results in a culture - clash of terrible proportions. Cultural differences are at the very core of how Westerners and Thais interpret and perceive various data.

One time I asked a Thai women when her father had quit working. She replied, "when he couldn't work anymore." I was expecting her tell me what year or how old he was when he quit working. That was my western culture talking. Another time I asked a Thai acquaintance where they worked. I expected to hear what type of work they did. Instead, they gave me their employment address and street. The Thais answered correctly in both cases - but as a farang my perception of how they would respond was wrong in both cases. As these trivial examples show, Thai and western brains are culturally wired much differently.

Thai perception of westerners

"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung ( Swiss Psycho Therapist - founded Analytical Psychology, 1875- 1961 )

Thais frequently perceive westerners as temperamental, distant from their family, and worst of all - cheap. In Thailand, the westerner is often a victim of cultural misunderstandings. As a guest in the country, a foreigner should avoid being labeled moody - or stingy. Thais dislike those negative attributes in other Thais, as well as in foreigners. In Thai, the word is "jai rahn" ( hot- hearted ). Think of it as being hotheaded, or temperamental.

In Thailand, raising your voice in almost any situation is a big no-no. It will make Thais around you feel extremely uncomfortable - the discomfort will be obvious in their face. Some may even harbor negative feelings towards you forever, at least until they learn to understand western culture better. For most Thais, this is not likely to ever happen.

Foreigners that marry Thai women find out quickly - being around their new Thai relatives can be challenging and frustrating. Most find a way to socialize for their marriage's sake. Thais already have the idea that the westerner is not close to their own family back home. For a Thai, being close to family members doesn't mean emotionally close; it means being in close proximity to each other all the time! This constant intimacy sometimes irritates the independent-minded westerner. Thai relatives will notice when the foreigner is irritated, and gossip about it. The farang may end up in a relative's vehicle with his extended Thai family, everyone crammed in the vehicle like sardines in a can.

Thais constantly change plans at the last moment; its' normal behavior for them. Unaccustomed to this behavior, the foreigner frequently gets frustrated and irritated. Relatives always notice when the farang is unhappy; everyone feels awkward. Clever westerners go with the flow. Proactive foreign men tell their Thai girlfriends before marriage - they require lots of free time from relatives.

Thai women frequently label foreign men keyneow ( it literally means sticky- shit, stingy, or cheap-charlie ). It's one of the worst labels in Thai culture - avoid it.

Thais and westerners view love and money very differently. This is the main area where foreigners are caught in a frustrating, irritating cultural clash. The Thai perception of the cheap-charlie is thus perpetuated - especially when culturally ignorant foreigners demonstrate that money and love are incompatible....

You remind of me of my professor at uni, who had been coming to Thailand for over 20 years (on short holidays each time) and also wrote a book on this type of thing.

He would preach in class this stuff to Thais and expats. Neither of us thought he knew what he was talking about. Just book smart. If only he had stayed in Thailand more and a month in all those 20 years, he might actually understand.

I don't know about your personal situation. Maybe you do live here and and a Thai family, but most of what you wrote was nonsense.

To address your points:

• Thais love to shout. They dislike quiet.
• The discomfort will not be obvious on their faces cos they will just smile or laugh.
• Some may harbor negative feelings to you forever.....just Thais, or what?
• Thais are learning western culture quite well, i would say. They are more western than eastern now.
• Thais have their own living space, except the ones who are leeching from the farang. My father-in-law says, "My house is my house. Your house is your house"
• No one feels awkward when i am unhappy, they just laugh and offer me beer, which always helps - they know me so well.
• My GF loves that i am "keyneow" - why would she want me to blow all our savings???? The only ones who use that phrase in a bad way are the gold digging leeches.

Agreed. There are a lot of massive generalisations there. The shouting thins is waaaay off. The amount of Thais I here shouting at each other....even in anger, well lets just say its not that uncommon. The 'key niiaw' thing is also way off. I guess if you were silly enough to marry into a gold digging family this could happen. My missus is about as stingy as it gets and she expects me to be. There are no complaints from me as we manage to save a fair bit from out COMBINED salaries. Her family are aware that I like my own space and my wife often goes with my son without me to her parents house for the night.....its not an issue.

However, the Thais are getting fatter I will agree there. I see more porkies now than I did in the early 2000's

[Falconator]

Folks here keep ranting about how exotic Thai culture is, how different Thai culture is from Western culture, and so on.

 

Now go to India or Myanmar, then come back to Thailand. You'll see how similar Thailand and Western countries are similar in so many ways. That's why they can get along not decently, though not perfectly.

 

When Burmese students come to Chiang Mai, they are often surprised with how Western Thailand seems to be. Some Western-Thai similarities that are not found in Myanmar or most of India:
- Young people getting to date openly

- Serial dating for fun

- Divorce and having stepfamilies happen commonly

- Convenience stores everywhere

- Infrastructure and roads

- The need to drive everywhere instead of riding bikes or walking (outside Bangkok)

... and much more.

 

Thailand is going the way of Japan and Singapore, which have become incredibly Westernized over the past decades.

 

[kannot]

On 1/20/2015 at 4:28 PM, pigeonjake said:

i must say the only thing ive noticed, baring in mind i live in a small village,

is that the young people dont want to get into farming,

they want to leave the village and look for a better life, i cant blame them for wanting to better themselfs, but the villeges are full of older people and kids,

but who am i im no expert

makes it very hard to find people to work on the land now,cant blame them they want a job in a  factory thats  not a  furnace.............same happened in the UK during the industrial revolution.

[A Lurker]

I think Thai culture is significantly less prone to change than Western culture.

 

This is either a feature or a bug depending on your outlook or you could say it is a good thing in some respects and bad thing in others.

[GuestHouse]

It's not all bad news.

 

I can see very many possitives; Thai people have become confident in their own abilities, less deferential (certainly less deferential to westerners who can no longer expect deference). Thai people questioning authority, especially some of the very vociferous online debates. 

 

As for all these claims of 'Westernisation' - don't let your own self loathing give Thai people an easy excuse. The 'westernisation' in Thailand is entirely home grown. Greed, the easy Bhat and the dream of owimporting a franchise. They fid all this to themselves.