How has Thai culture changed, and how is it changing?

[orpheus454]

I meant a tiny minority of foreigners compared to the number of Thais not a tiny minority of foreigners. Foreigners did not make Thais who they are today but rather they did that to themselves by their greed and selfishness which is a somewhat Asian trait that Thailand has honed to perfection. Westerners have lost a lot of what was honour too and is changing greatly and partly through immigration which is far more far reaching than a few hundred thousand foreigners bugrudingly allowed to live here

Must have cracked the first bottle reasonably early today...?

[UTH001]

I first came to Thailand 20+ years ago. It was alot of fun, not much crime, didn't really worry about 95% of daily life,

NOW, it's all about money, greed, Thais are not as friendly...(maybe blame that on all the misfits that have arrived in Thailand the last 10 years)

About 10 years ago you did not see the Afrikans at all, maybe 1 or 2 that were actually working here. Now there is plenty......

Now I don't associate with anybody I don't know, stick to our little clan and enjoy.

Me a bit confused: Do you mean the Afrikaaners (from South Africa) or the Africans (from Africa)? Many in both groups are very decent people...

[The Deerhunter]

Unbridled greed is the norm now and it's like cancer everywhere in the Thai society and all government

police and army, people are not ashamed anymore to cheat, Thai culture is about money and power

and electronic gizmos to show off, no respect for the elderly, the wise and the experienced..it's the

me me me first culture now...

Especially on the road. If the Thai govt wants to make up the low tax take, two words. SPEED CAMERAS!!! I know some of these overloaded pickups weaving in & out of traffic are doing over 130, 140kmh

[The Deerhunter]

I first came to Thailand 20+ years ago. It was alot of fun, not much crime, didn't really worry about 95% of daily life,

NOW, it's all about money, greed, Thais are not as friendly...(maybe blame that on all the misfits that have arrived in Thailand the last 10 years)

About 10 years ago you did not see the Afrikans at all, maybe 1 or 2 that were actually working here. Now there is plenty......

Now I don't associate with anybody I don't know, stick to our little clan and enjoy.

Me a bit confused: Do you mean the Afrikaaners (from South Africa) or the Africans (from Africa)? Many in both groups are very decent people...

Ahem! Possible reference to Nigerian street scammers here.

[joboss]

It seems to my limited observations and exposure to Thailand that a “credit card hangover” has taken away the fabled smile.

I think Thais have taken to reckless borrowing and maxing out CC’s within the last 10 yrs.

Most of us suffer some stress from debt. Seems the party is over.

[ggt]

Corruption has always been a factor in trading in SE Asia...you name the country...but over the years...it has gone from something to be vaguely aware of...to a constant battle in everyday life...everyone seems to be out to scam the foreigner...

The Military/New PM seems to be making an effort to tackle this problem...it will take constant vigilance...several generations to make a den in numbers of scammers in Thailand...

[elektrified]

Westernization.... Things have really changed. Very little tradition left.

In my moobaan (very old moobann about 30 years old) most homes have been rebuilt in recent years and I would guess that there are maybe only 12 homes left that have spirit houses - out of 200? homes.

In our family, none of the g/f's cousins (17-23 years old) have ever cooked Thai food. All they can do is microwave 7-11 ham and cheese sandwiches. A couple of them have never washed a dish in their life either.

There are obese Thais everywhere. They are obsessed with fast, junk food. The other night at a Jazz concert I couldn't help but notice how unattractive the Singha beer girls were in their small red shorts with cellulite everywhere, large derrieres and so forth. Girls in their early 20's already obese.

[kaorop]

Why are people discussing Thai society?

Culture is the arts, crafts, food, sports, etc.

There is a strong presence of historic culture,

and of course the western influence is booming, many thai teenagers are now wearing flat bills (look it up)

and into hiphop.

As an example in Khorat the other night, in the city square

there were some traditional thai plays on a stage and a group break dancing and group on inline skates.

Most of the looktung is samey to me, (cant understand the lyrics so im missing some of it)

and the newer stuff is a blend of limpbizket and eminem, so at least there is some movement if "westernized"

Rock stuff is pretty static, but Thais like familiarity so there is never going to be a big change

in any area

Dunno? ? ?thats my limited exposure and welcome others opinions.

But paaaleeease stick to the topic and not drag it into a "slag thai society" fest, most know those shortcomings and nobody needs to endlessly repeat the same sh1t "we've" all heard.

Culture not society.

Edited January 20, 2015 by kaorop

[asdecas]

There is clearly a pressing need for General Happiness's 12 steps to Compleat Thainess, not only among Thai people but also among the less blessed foreigners visiting or resident in this now-contented country. Therefore, in a spirit of community sharing with my fellow farang, I here reiterate the qualities that the esteemed leader of our adopted country deems essential in returning Thainess to the people:

- Upholding the nation, the religions and the Monarchy, which is the key institution

- Being honest, sacrificial and patient with positive attitude for the common good of the public

- Being grateful to parents, guardians and teachers

- Seeking knowledge and education directly and indirectly

- Treasuring Thai traditions

- Maintaining moral, integrity, well-wishes upon others as well as being generous and sharing

- Understanding, learning the true essence of democratic ideals with His Majesty the King as the Head of State

- Maintaining discipline, respectful of laws and the elderly and seniority

- Being conscious and mindful of action in line with His Majestys the Kings statements

- Practicing the philosophy of Sufficiency Economy of His Majesty the King. Saving money for time of need. Being moderate with surplus used for sharing or expansion of business while having good immunity

- Maintaining both physical and mental health and unyielding to the dark force or desires, having sense of shame over guilt and sins in accordance with the religious principles

- Putting the public and national interest before personal interest.

[YeahSiam]

 

Money.

Money.

Money.

Respect is gone.

Same as in USA.

Today's generation has NO respect for much of anything.

 

Respect hasn't gone; it's just not demonstrated

as a matter of course any more.Now it has to be earned

- much to the annoyance of the typical farang who

still thinks a white face and a handful of foreign

currency entitles him to VIP treatment the second

he steps off the plane. There's probably a thread

running on a Thai forum somewhere in which locals

are discussing the collapse in the quality of the

Western tourist/expat. We'd do well to look at

ourselves first

[redandyellow]

A few excerpts from a book I wrote..

"Assume a virtue, if you have it not." William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

People of a certain culture or society have unique common customs and beliefs. They share inherent values and social paradigms that characterize and differentiate their peoples. Each culture evolves over thousands of years. A cultural template is painfully and gradually developed, superimposed like a hard- drive into the psyche of the cultural member. Individuals share attitudes and behaviors - concomitant to the very fabric of their being. Humans in different cultures evolve in different ways, therefore have different attitudes toward situations. Western and Eastern attitudes, psychology, social patterns and philosophy are frequently polar opposites - diametrically opposed. Consider the difference of western and eastern philosophy regarding life and death. The following is an excerpt from "Kamikaze, Japan's Suicide Gods," by Albert Axell and Hideaki Kase: "The psychology behind the Kamikaze attacks was too alien to us.

People in Western and Thai culture generally operate under a different set of norms - rendering the cultures diametrically opposed to each other. For example westerners hate being late, while Thais are much more laid back regarding timelines. People are molded and shaped by their respective societies. Unique and deeply held views of a given culture become so innate - that individuals are not overtly conscious of their own instinctual and behavioral tendencies. Westerners and Thais employ different ways to communicate complex social imperatives. For the unaware, the culture - contrast results in a culture - clash of terrible proportions. Cultural differences are at the very core of how Westerners and Thais interpret and perceive various data.

One time I asked a Thai women when her father had quit working. She replied, "when he couldn't work anymore." I was expecting her tell me what year or how old he was when he quit working. That was my western culture talking. Another time I asked a Thai acquaintance where they worked. I expected to hear what type of work they did. Instead, they gave me their employment address and street. The Thais answered correctly in both cases - but as a farang my perception of how they would respond was wrong in both cases. As these trivial examples show, Thai and western brains are culturally wired much differently.

Thai perception of westerners

"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung ( Swiss Psycho Therapist - founded Analytical Psychology, 1875- 1961 )

Thais frequently perceive westerners as temperamental, distant from their family, and worst of all - cheap. In Thailand, the westerner is often a victim of cultural misunderstandings. As a guest in the country, a foreigner should avoid being labeled moody - or stingy. Thais dislike those negative attributes in other Thais, as well as in foreigners. In Thai, the word is "jai rahn" ( hot- hearted ). Think of it as being hotheaded, or temperamental.

In Thailand, raising your voice in almost any situation is a big no-no. It will make Thais around you feel extremely uncomfortable - the discomfort will be obvious in their face. Some may even harbor negative feelings towards you forever, at least until they learn to understand western culture better. For most Thais, this is not likely to ever happen.

Foreigners that marry Thai women find out quickly - being around their new Thai relatives can be challenging and frustrating. Most find a way to socialize for their marriage's sake. Thais already have the idea that the westerner is not close to their own family back home. For a Thai, being close to family members doesn't mean emotionally close; it means being in close proximity to each other all the time! This constant intimacy sometimes irritates the independent-minded westerner. Thai relatives will notice when the foreigner is irritated, and gossip about it. The farang may end up in a relative's vehicle with his extended Thai family, everyone crammed in the vehicle like sardines in a can.

Thais constantly change plans at the last moment; its' normal behavior for them. Unaccustomed to this behavior, the foreigner frequently gets frustrated and irritated. Relatives always notice when the farang is unhappy; everyone feels awkward. Clever westerners go with the flow. Proactive foreign men tell their Thai girlfriends before marriage - they require lots of free time from relatives.

Thai women frequently label foreign men keyneow ( it literally means sticky- shit, stingy, or cheap-charlie ). It's one of the worst labels in Thai culture - avoid it.

Thais and westerners view love and money very differently. This is the main area where foreigners are caught in a frustrating, irritating cultural clash. The Thai perception of the cheap-charlie is thus perpetuated - especially when culturally ignorant foreigners demonstrate that money and love are incompatible....

[Thai at Heart]

Ever increasing levels of violence.

[mrfaroukh]

They putting on lots of weight, getting greedy, more aggressive, less polite, and now somehow they blame foreigners for not visiting Thailand and they getting financial problems,

[nithisa78]

They are personal changes, growth issues. Not really related to where I'm staying at the time.

[nithisa78]

They putting on lots of weight, getting greedy, more aggressive, less polite, and now somehow they blame foreigners for not visiting Thailand and they getting financial problems,

No No No, about Thailand not you.

[nithisa78]

Corruption has always been a factor in trading in SE Asia...you name the country...but over the years...it has gone from something to be vaguely aware of...to a constant battle in everyday life...everyone seems to be out to scam the foreigner...

The Military/New PM seems to be making an effort to tackle this problem...it will take constant vigilance...several generations to make a den in numbers of scammers in Thailand...

Your sourses of information, please. This isn't about the toilet of your life.

[benalibina]

Unbridled greed is the norm now and it's like cancer everywhere in the Thai society and all government

police and army, people are not ashamed anymore to cheat, Thai culture is about money and power

and electronic gizmos to show off, no respect for the elderly, the wise and the experienced..it's the

me me me first culture now...

Especially on the road. If the Thai govt wants to make up the low tax take, two words. SPEED CAMERAS!!! I know some of these overloaded pickups weaving in & out of traffic are doing over 130, 140kmh

Personally I prefer to encounter the pick ups/small trucks overloaded with fruits driving 30 km/h on the fast lane.

[Jungle Jim]

Correct WE are the root of most of the Thais problems. We treat them like crap and expect them to smile.

 

Money.
Money.
Money.

Respect is gone.
Same as in USA.
Today's generation has NO respect for much of anything.

 

Respect hasn't gone; it's just not demonstrated
as a matter of course any more.Now it has to be earned
- much to the annoyance of the typical farang who
still thinks a white face and a handful of foreign
currency entitles him to VIP treatment the second
he steps off the plane. There's probably a thread
running on a Thai forum somewhere in which locals
are discussing the collapse in the quality of the
Western tourist/expat. We'd do well to look at
ourselves first

[ATF]

A lot of the social problems Thailand faces now stem from the Asian Economic Crisis of 1997. Prior to this Thais were a lot more respectful, cultured and better educated and also had a future to look forward to because Thailand had been booming up until this point.

The AEC caused a whole generation of Thais to miss out on decent schooling and their parents also had problems providing for them.

Thailand is now having to deal with this lost generation whose future is bleak in a job market that hasn't really seen a salary increase in over 20 years.

[kurtramsbottom]

It (Thailand) is as shit as it was 17 years ago if not worse .

[geronimo]

It (Thailand) is as shit as it was 17 years ago if not worse .

Yet another positive comment from our learned friend. What a joyous person you must be!

[kurtramsbottom]

It (Thailand) is as shit as it was 17 years ago if not worse .

Yet another positive comment from our learned friend. What a joyous person you must be!

Stalker alert!

[kannot]

Unbridled greed is the norm now and it's like cancer everywhere in the Thai society and all government

police and army, people are not ashamed anymore to cheat, Thai culture is about money and power

and electronic gizmos to show off, no respect for the elderly, the wise and the experienced..it's the

me me me first culture now...

Especially on the road. If the Thai govt wants to make up the low tax take, two words. SPEED CAMERAS!!! I know some of these overloaded pickups weaving in & out of traffic are doing over 130, 140kmh

Its not the speed killing its that type of driving, you can weave at 30kmh and still kill

[rayongchelsea]

A lot of the social problems Thailand faces now stem from the Asian Economic Crisis of 1997. Prior to this Thais were a lot more respectful, cultured and better educated and also had a future to look forward to because Thailand had been booming up until this point.

The AEC caused a whole generation of Thais to miss out on decent schooling and their parents also had problems providing for them.

Thailand is now having to deal with this lost generation whose future is bleak in a job market that hasn't really seen a salary increase in over 20 years.

Totally agree.

I am not sure a lot of foreigners understand the sheer impact 1997 had on the thai people of all social economic classes ( except the elite). To see my work colleagues almost traumatized by the loss of their jobs ( unheard of previously) lower income families getting into debt etc..suicides when they got ill etc..

The whole country seemed to change, then the onset of mass tourism, the influx of retirees, the poor quality of the foreigners who came thereafter. The whole dynamic of the thai/ foreigner relationship also changed.

Place is unrecognizable.

As all countries have I suppose.

[SiSePuede419]

This type of subject is similar to talking about how wet water is.

Of course Thailand is changing. Name one country in the world that HAS NOT changed?

...

I can tell you one thing about Thailand (or any country) that hasn't changed: The dead.

If you're not changing, you're dead...

[nottocus]

When I left 8 years ago I had the feeling that Thais had generally changed in their attitude to foreigners, but not in a positive way.

[ChrisB87]

A few excerpts from a book I wrote..

"Assume a virtue, if you have it not." William Shakespeare (1564-1616)

People of a certain culture or society have unique common customs and beliefs. They share inherent values and social paradigms that characterize and differentiate their peoples. Each culture evolves over thousands of years. A cultural template is painfully and gradually developed, superimposed like a hard- drive into the psyche of the cultural member. Individuals share attitudes and behaviors - concomitant to the very fabric of their being. Humans in different cultures evolve in different ways, therefore have different attitudes toward situations. Western and Eastern attitudes, psychology, social patterns and philosophy are frequently polar opposites - diametrically opposed. Consider the difference of western and eastern philosophy regarding life and death. The following is an excerpt from "Kamikaze, Japan's Suicide Gods," by Albert Axell and Hideaki Kase: "The psychology behind the Kamikaze attacks was too alien to us.

People in Western and Thai culture generally operate under a different set of norms - rendering the cultures diametrically opposed to each other. For example westerners hate being late, while Thais are much more laid back regarding timelines. People are molded and shaped by their respective societies. Unique and deeply held views of a given culture become so innate - that individuals are not overtly conscious of their own instinctual and behavioral tendencies. Westerners and Thais employ different ways to communicate complex social imperatives. For the unaware, the culture - contrast results in a culture - clash of terrible proportions. Cultural differences are at the very core of how Westerners and Thais interpret and perceive various data.

One time I asked a Thai women when her father had quit working. She replied, "when he couldn't work anymore." I was expecting her tell me what year or how old he was when he quit working. That was my western culture talking. Another time I asked a Thai acquaintance where they worked. I expected to hear what type of work they did. Instead, they gave me their employment address and street. The Thais answered correctly in both cases - but as a farang my perception of how they would respond was wrong in both cases. As these trivial examples show, Thai and western brains are culturally wired much differently.

Thai perception of westerners

"Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves." C.G. Jung ( Swiss Psycho Therapist - founded Analytical Psychology, 1875- 1961 )

Thais frequently perceive westerners as temperamental, distant from their family, and worst of all - cheap. In Thailand, the westerner is often a victim of cultural misunderstandings. As a guest in the country, a foreigner should avoid being labeled moody - or stingy. Thais dislike those negative attributes in other Thais, as well as in foreigners. In Thai, the word is "jai rahn" ( hot- hearted ). Think of it as being hotheaded, or temperamental.

In Thailand, raising your voice in almost any situation is a big no-no. It will make Thais around you feel extremely uncomfortable - the discomfort will be obvious in their face. Some may even harbor negative feelings towards you forever, at least until they learn to understand western culture better. For most Thais, this is not likely to ever happen.

Foreigners that marry Thai women find out quickly - being around their new Thai relatives can be challenging and frustrating. Most find a way to socialize for their marriage's sake. Thais already have the idea that the westerner is not close to their own family back home. For a Thai, being close to family members doesn't mean emotionally close; it means being in close proximity to each other all the time! This constant intimacy sometimes irritates the independent-minded westerner. Thai relatives will notice when the foreigner is irritated, and gossip about it. The farang may end up in a relative's vehicle with his extended Thai family, everyone crammed in the vehicle like sardines in a can.

Thais constantly change plans at the last moment; its' normal behavior for them. Unaccustomed to this behavior, the foreigner frequently gets frustrated and irritated. Relatives always notice when the farang is unhappy; everyone feels awkward. Clever westerners go with the flow. Proactive foreign men tell their Thai girlfriends before marriage - they require lots of free time from relatives.

Thai women frequently label foreign men keyneow ( it literally means sticky- shit, stingy, or cheap-charlie ). It's one of the worst labels in Thai culture - avoid it.

Thais and westerners view love and money very differently. This is the main area where foreigners are caught in a frustrating, irritating cultural clash. The Thai perception of the cheap-charlie is thus perpetuated - especially when culturally ignorant foreigners demonstrate that money and love are incompatible....

You remind of me of my professor at uni, who had been coming to Thailand for over 20 years (on short holidays each time) and also wrote a book on this type of thing.

He would preach in class this stuff to Thais and expats. Neither of us thought he knew what he was talking about. Just book smart. If only he had stayed in Thailand more and a month in all those 20 years, he might actually understand.

I don't know about your personal situation. Maybe you do live here and and a Thai family, but most of what you wrote was nonsense.

To address your points:

• Thais love to shout. They dislike quiet.
• The discomfort will not be obvious on their faces cos they will just smile or laugh.
• Some may harbor negative feelings to you forever.....just Thais, or what?
• Thais are learning western culture quite well, i would say. They are more western than eastern now.
• Thais have their own living space, except the ones who are leeching from the farang. My father-in-law says, "My house is my house. Your house is your house"
• No one feels awkward when i am unhappy, they just laugh and offer me beer, which always helps - they know me so well.
• My GF loves that i am "keyneow" - why would she want me to blow all our savings???? The only ones who use that phrase in a bad way are the gold digging leeches.

[duanebigsby]

More obnoxious and disrespectful foreigners = more obnoxious and disrespectful Thais. WE did the damage and WE are paying for it. And the government wants more foreigners coming here ?

So a tiny minority of foreigners caused all the scamming lying cheating selfishness and corruption That is Thainess is what you are saying? Deranged.

I think he's suggesting the HUGE amount of visitors every year are causing damage like any other tourist destination in the world.

The opportunity for greed and scams is there because of tourism.

Not the few who live here.

[nottocus]

• Thais have their own living space, except the ones who are leeching from the farang. My father-in-law says, "My house is my house. Your house is your house"
• My GF loves that i am "keyneow" - why would she want me to blow all our savings???? The only ones who use that phrase in a bad way are the gold digging leeches.

Does your wife know that you have a GF?

[slipperx]

More obnoxious and disrespectful foreigners = more obnoxious and disrespectful Thais. WE did the damage and WE are paying for it. And the government wants more foreigners coming here ?

So a tiny minority of foreigners caused all the scamming lying cheating selfishness and corruption That is Thainess is what you are saying? Deranged.

I think he's suggesting the HUGE amount of visitors every year are causing damage like any other tourist destination in the world.

The opportunity for greed and scams is there because of tourism.

Not the few who live here.

That would be a bit like an excuse for an alcoholic being that the evils bars are stocked with liquor - no one forces them to lie, cheat, steal, rape and murder. They do that of their own accord supported by a Justice system that is wholly immersed in the acts as well as doing their very best not to tackle any of the issues if they happen not to be involved as well