What can you do? So frustrated.

[Seastallion]

Wifey teaches at a vocational college. Being Thai, she is subjected to all the BS stuff like compulsory after-hours activities (eg going to the wat whenever the owner decides the school should be represented), the pay-docking (eg a days pay for being 10 minutes late for early morning gate duty), months pay bond etc etc.

All the Thai teaches also have to do a lot of (usually redundant and superfluous) documentation, all by hand. And no erasures or white-out! Huge emphasis on documents being "pretty" and neat.

Wifey is currently setting the end of year exams...she has 3 subjects. The Academic head INSISTS, despite all reasoning and logic, that for multi-choice questions, the answer and distractors MUST be ordered according to length, option "a" the shortest to "e" the longest, so that the exam paper "looks nice".

To ensure randomness, this added requirement makes setting the paper difficult. Even more difficult is thinking up the distractors and then having to re-arrange them with the correct answer.

I can think of a few arguments against most of the silly and time-wasting requirements......and wifey has (no doubt in a Thai diplomatic (ineffective) way) made her thoughts known.....but to no avail of course.

Teachers should concentrate on teaching, not spending hours a day doing stupid stuff to stroke the vanity or mood of a school owner.

Who else has come across vain, dumb, and selfish school owners, and how did/do you handle it?

[attrayant]

This will never change until the Thai teachers organize and demand fair treatment . Of course they're never going to do that, so they'll continue to be treated little more than cogs in a machine to be worked as much and as hard as possible, and replaced when they begin to squeak.

Edited January 25, 2015 by attrayant

[inzman]

Thai teachers suffer a lot. But remember the perks they get by being a govt employee. Can be a sweet gig.

[cgphuket]

You may know already...Being the head of anything in Thailand has nothing to do with being smart, skilled or talented. It's all about who your daddy is or who you paid to get your position. In Thailand, it's not the "cream" that rises to the top.

[lostinisaan]

Teachers should concentrate on teaching, not spending hours a day doing stupid stuff to stroke the vanity or mood of a school owner.

Our Thai teachers have to "pray" now after the last school hour, together with the students. Just to top that, teachers have to "pray with the director of the school" each Tuesday.( Of course after school)

I'm afraid there's not much your wife, or you could change. The annual "evaluation", where plenty of documents and good looking boards have to be produced, show a lot how much time they're wasting, instead of really teaching their kids.

​ But rearranging test questions, plus deducting a day's wage for being late for "gate duty" seems really strange to me. Insane might be the better word for it.

​ Unfortunately, there's not much that would surprise me anymore.

Edited January 25, 2015 by lostinisaan

[colinneil]

pgpucket

Not all senior Thais have well appointed fathers.

My wife has a senior government job. She got it on her own merit hard work.

Her father is a rice farmer, when she got promotion, she was told pay xxxxxxxx baht under the table.

She rufused. We spent 15 months in the mountains near Mae hong son , rather than pay.

Then she applied and got a job back in Issan.

[culicine]

pgpucket

Not all senior Thais have well appointed fathers.

My wife has a senior government job. She got it on her own merit hard work.

Her father is a rice farmer, when she got promotion, she was told pay xxxxxxxx baht under the table.

She rufused. We spent 15 months in the mountains near Mae hong son , rather than pay.

Then she applied and got a job back in Issan.

Very true. My wife comes from a simple background, though she studied hard all her life. Got a PhD from Australia and is now a college Director through here diligence only. And noone will be giving her a C9 ranking. She has to earn that too. Occasionally, there is a new director who was 'surprisingly chosen'. All the other directors know what goes on and the real quality of that appointee. Sometimes they work out, but often they don't. They may well be the boss, but their college eventually goes to pieces.

[Squeegee]

Being docked a day for 10 minutes lateness is totally unacceptable.

She should just find a new job and quit or suck it up. The key is to find the particular Thai bull poo one can actually live with.

[lostinisaan]

Being docked a day for 10 minutes lateness is totally unacceptable.

She should just find a new job and quit or suck it up. The key is to find the particular Thai bull poo one can actually live with.

We've just recently interviewed some teachers, who're seeking a new teaching position, because many of them are/were treated like pigs.

And the directors of all bigger schools just buy their positions. It's ridiculous to see 45 year old teachers bowing down, then kneel down on their knees, just to serve this prick an orange juice.

But as you've already pointed out, even deducting five baht for being late for "gate duty's" just insane.

[konying]

Being docked a day for 10 minutes lateness is totally unacceptable.

She should just find a new job and quit or suck it up. The key is to find the particular Thai bull poo one can actually live with.

And being late is?

[bangmai]

being late as a teacher is worse than having booze breath.

[gerryBScot]

Vocational education in Thailand, like much of the wider system, sounds as if it sucks. But this unfortunately is how a lot of educational establishments are run. It's part of the reason why Thailand is being rapidly overtaken and left behind by many neighbouring countries. It's a tragedy for the students too. Singapore has probably the finest vocational education system in the world, with every graduate virtually guaranteed employment. Yet in the 1960s Singapore was a bit of a backwater until the government took the initiative and decided to invest in tis citizens as part of a strategy that has turned SIngapore into one of S E Asia's most important economies. Among its many problems one is the inability of those running the system in Thailand to copy best practice from other parts of the world. Deeply depressing situation.

[SlyAnimal]

It's just the way things are, for us we see it as really weird and absolutely terrible, but for most Thai people, it's just normal and is simply what is expected.

If Thai people were to come to the west, they might dislike some of the ways that we conduct business, in the same way that we don't like some of the conditions here.

But yeah, what can you do

(Well other than finding a new job elsewhere, or continuing to try and make improvements/changes to the workplace, but these aren't necessarily always viable options).

[SheungWan]

It is not so much the lateness aspect of the OP story that drives someone mad, it is the bit about the order of the questions going from short to long against all logical reasoning that produces stress and unpleasantness. Plus the aspect of documentation requiring hand-written data entry and no corrections. The line manager has telegraphed that not only are they an idiot but they are going to insist on full compliance with their idiocy. The logic is in their exercise of power. It is ridiculous but there it is. For anyone who has taught in a vocational anywhere, never mind Thailand, they will tell you that it has its full collection of deranged staff and it is your wife's bad luck that in this case it is the line manager. In a one-to-one she will always lose and in the end any conflict will be seen as a challenge to that person's power. Teachers all over the world spend a significant proportion of their time doing administration stuff so that cannot be put down to anything except a wail. As for the random order of questions if the question paper was set using online software and each student received the order of answers randomly to prevent cheating then the academic head's nonsense goes into the bin. Probably get a No on that one as well. Prepare to leave. Seriously. If she doesn't she will become ill under the pressure.

[samsensam]

dont think i've been late for work in my life. ever in about 30 years. it's not difficult.

[Fatty123]

I know I shouldn't but I did just laugh out loud at the original post. Thais are obsessed with neatness. Almost the whole nation is OCD from what I've seen (I mean that in a nice way). Their neatness is stunning at times. My wife can fit the contents of twelve folks' suitcases into a small backpack. And neatly too. Thai teachers' writing on the board looks too nice to rub off. Pure caligraphy at times. So, that thing about the questions being in order of 'size' doesn't surprise me.

All style and no content. Doesn't really work with education though. Shame really, Thailand has so many bright people that can't fulfill their potential.

[Scott]

When the foreign teachers where I work have their tests reviewed by the Thai Admin, the first thing is the neatness. Unfortunately, it seems it is the last thing as well.

[siampolee]

The problem is also old routines and paths in education as used by Thai teachers often at the behest of the school directors who wish to preserve their little kingdoms.

Woe betide any staff member who suggests the use of multi media systems (apart from games and Facebook, line etc) and encourages questioning facts stated and the development of an independent though processes.

Old tracks are for tired feet.

http://www.poetsgraves.co.uk/Classic%20Poems/Gray/elegy_written_in_a_country_churc.htm

[maidee]

and your wife is bound in chains to this school ?

no other job offerings around ?

let her go have a private meeting with all the teachers & treathen they will all quit the same day if those stupid things don't change ... what can the owner do ?

[carter1882]

You can always tell inexoerience of the job of teacher when oeople start whinging about all the add ons apart from being in the class. Get a grip! That is all what being a teacher is all about and if you think it is any different in the international school system think again. The rewards may be greater but the nonsense is greater too. I should know, i jumped through those hoops for twenty years and believe me retirement is sweet!

[smotherb]

This will never change until the Thai teachers organize and demand fair treatment . Of course they're never going to do that, so they'll continue to be treated little more than cogs in a machine to be worked as much and as hard as possible, and replaced when they begin to squeak.

And, the difference between that situation and the situations of many other professions in many other countries is? Haven't you seen the stats in a previous thread on Thai teachers? In one, it was quoted that over 100k teacher aspirants sat for an exam to qualify for 1,880 teaching jobs. Teaching has long been a profession of scorn in the Western world--you know, the old adage, "Those who can, do; those who can't, teach."--it seems the scorn is spreading to the developing world. Teacher's pay is notoriously low in most countries; on the flip side, the GPAs for students of university Educational degree programs have often been the lowest GPAs of any university program. It seems those who cannot earn degrees in other disciplines can earn teaching degrees.

[Crocbait]

In a meeting at a Thai University that I used to work at the head asked what are the differences that set staff apart. One female senior teacher answered "those with power and those without". This woman later became head of English Department and she really liked to wield her power. Previously the English Department used to focus on the quality of teaching, but under the new head, the focus was on paperwork and achieving some ranking on quality control and meeting other standards. She insisted that all exam papers be veted by her and would continually introduce new standards that exams must meet. Much like the Op stated, the format had to meet this standard and the punctuation had to be this standard, which was often grammatically incorrect and left us shaking our heads.

The same woman didn't like farangs, thought we were overpaid, and was always looking at ways to either make us work harder or cheat us out of money whenever she could. The Thai teachers gradually all left as they couldn't stand working under the woman, along with myself and most other foreign teachers. The sad thing is that it is the students that have suffered the most.

[ggt]

When I read real stories like this...I fall in love with Thailand all over again...one wonders if there is any place on earth that has more potential...and less leadership...

[RPCVguy]

Many comments above that I had to agree with - even from people I usually disagree with. We are experiencing a more hierarchical social system than we were raised in, and the need of demonstrating the social pecking order is high. Pecking order is not limited to Thailand, but it is valued and reinforced for the societal stability it instills.

Thai teachers not only suffer such indignities and waste time, but they often impose the same onto their students. Nothing irritated me more than watching the hours that went into making a secondary school report attractive. Drawing scenes, gluing on decorations... all for a report of but a few paragraphs. Style being taught as more important than content! UGH

Now a third year college student who had a difficult transition in adjusting to more realistic requirements for content - the observations I had shared as to poor academic priorities back then are readily agreed to. While less apparent in college, some professors still enforce the cultural rules that inhibit learning. There is only so much time in a day, and style requires more time to provide. Learning is reduced as a consequence.

[recom273]

dont think i've been late for work in my life. ever in about 30 years. it's not difficult.

That may be so .. But in your own country would you turn up an hour early for free or do an hour or so's overtime to make up for the pointless meeting for free. Would you work on bank holidays or Sunday for no additional OT payment ?

I'm not a late person either but we had a motto "no friends at home time"

The missus works for a private kindergarten and it's the same as most private education centers .. Withholding 200b for a couple of months for a couple of late days ( anything over 1-2 mins is late ) then having to perform some extra cleaning duty to get it back, yet, they have a weekly 2 hour meeting where the owner waffles on instead of addressing the main points that could be covered in 15 minutes. All unpaid.

Cleaning on public holidays instead of employing a FT maid - normal rate because that's the only day when the kids aren't there.

Hell! They even gave them a day off to go on a New Years trip, only to claim the day back two months later and had the cheek to remind the teachers how much the event cost at a later meeting.

Opening a new branch, instead of wasting money hiring external staff everyone works until 11.00 pm for a couple of weeks - unpaid - but they supplied some sticky rice and satay sticks.

Husbands can all advise their partners to move on, but the truth is - every private teaching gig is pretty similar - the wife likes the job along with her colleagues.

[KarenfromAus]

To Samsensan,

You're very lucky to never have had a puncture, or have to wait until the road clears after a major accident, or get stuck behind train line barrier's that have failed to raise after being lowered. I always left home half an hour before I needed to, in order to go through nursing notes, and have a coffee at the same time, but sometimes shit just happened that was out of my control.

Don't sound so smug!

[NoshowJones]

and your wife is bound in chains to this school ?

no other job offerings around ?

let her go have a private meeting with all the teachers & treathen they will all quit the same day if those stupid things don't change ... what can the owner do ?

Yes, but that is Western mentality, Thais are completely different, the boss is the boss, and no one questions it, it is ground into them since they start school, and it continues that way into adulthood.

[John1thru10]

'wifey'

[joeyg]

Being docked a day for 10 minutes lateness is totally unacceptable.

She should just find a new job and quit or suck it up. The key is to find the particular Thai bull poo one can actually live with.

We've just recently interviewed some teachers, who're seeking a new teaching position, because many of them are/were treated like pigs.

And the directors of all bigger schools just buy their positions. It's ridiculous to see 45 year old teachers bowing down, then kneel down on their knees, just to serve this prick an orange juice.

But as you've already pointed out, even deducting five baht for being late for "gate duty's" just insane.

Do you mean kneeling literally? If it were me they would be wearing that orange juice...

[Seastallion]

and your wife is bound in chains to this school ?

no other job offerings around ?

let her go have a private meeting with all the teachers & treathen they will all quit the same day if those stupid things don't change ... what can the owner do ?

Yeah, unionisation would be a fine thing...but apart from my wife, I can't see many others having the gumption and resolve to start, let alone carry on, something like that.

Personally I think it will take a government initiative. The students are suffering.

She's in contact online with a small group (about 50) of other educators around the country who did submit a list of suggestions to the current PM. We'll see how that pans out.

Abhisit visited the school recently and she was asked to prepare a question for him. Her question, framed in English, not Thai (deliberately); "Sir, Considering the increasing globalisation of the world and the importance of Thai students learning English, not to mention ASEAN having English as the common language, do you agree that it is in Thailand's interest to treat good Thai English teachers as an asset, and if so, what measures would you take to ensure that good teachers do not leave for other ASEAN countries?"

She was not given the opportunity to ask it! LOL.