Now, NLA panel to summon US envoy

[smedly]

I actually think the problem here is that the US chose to meet the ex PM which quite honestly was an incredibly stupid diplomatic error no matter how you look at it, they said in a statement they were not taking sides but this very meeting tells a different story.

It is well understood that the US must take a certain position when it comes to its stance on democracy but they also must recognise that Thailands solution to a growing political implosion and removal of a very obviously defunct administration has been the most peaceful and effective in recent global history, it is also worth mentioning that the current effort by all concerned seems like a genuine effort to produce a solid base for a future sustainable democracy in the not to distant future.

The recent US interference could have put the current stability at considerable risk and was therefore IMO an error, martial law is a draconian environment by any standards but perhaps a necessity in this instance while the reform process continues to conclusion without interference, it is also worth noting that certain factions were offered but refused to take part, it is easy to see the usual dogs biting at the heels with every opportunity - it is unfortunate but unavoidable that the mechanism to silence them needs to stay in place and so it should.

The PM's and NLA's reaction was not correct either, make a statement disagree and move along - done and dusted

If at the end of the process and a referendum and elections do not take place then that is a totally different ball game and the US would have every right to get involved along with other western countries - but for now they need to butt out and keep their diplomats under strict control and allow this process to run its course unabated.

and here is a quote from another thread that is very relevant to this

"If we comply [with US wishes] … and lift martial law and it leads to problems, how will those people who are asking for the lifting of martial law take responsibility?" Don said. "In reality, Thais don't even know there is martial law."

"In reality, Thais don't even know there is martial law." Well Smed, it that is the case then removing it would have no effect at all, would it not?

I think you understand as well as I do that for most of the Thai people it really has made zero impact on their lives but has curtailed the activities of those that would normally be up to no good and Thailand seems to have a fair share of them

[Lee4Life]

Bilaibhan Sampatisiri...how could you possibly take seriously a person that looks like that! She looks like Benny Hill in drag

Careful...you might be called in for an attitude adjustment, she looks plenty capable of that!

[GeckosDiving]

englishoak post # 12.

I'd say some in that lot could do with a spell at one of those attitude adjustment camp of theirs.

Agreed.

However I would go one step further and suggest that both Thailand and America could do with time in their assorted''adjustment camps.''

All they said was the junta lacks democratic integrity and legitimacy.

To be perfectly honest, who doesn't think that about just about every Thai official they ever meet? In their spiffy uniforms covered in chest candy having never served a moment in combat, or barely done a days work.

They lack legitimacy and integrity in every thing they do, let alone running a country. Who are these great appointees who dare to lecture from their appointed pulpits?

Who are they to dare to jeopardise the single most important strategic military alliance thailand has. Just who the hell do they think they represent by apparently summoning their superior ally? They are nothing. Not legitimate,not representative and not qualified to represent anything to do with diplomacy on behalf of the country.

They are a sham and should get on with their business and leave the stage exit left forthwith, before they do some real permanent damage.

You mean real permanent damage like the last pond scum government did :-)

[oneday]

This is getting utterly ridiculous. The more they whine about this perceived offense to their pride the more it makes them look like children.

Mountain out of a mole hill.

[Lovekorat]

Will this 'government' , and I use that term lightly, please stop posturing and pretending they are playing in the same league as the big boys. You are making yourselves look fools. Get on with the job of sorting the country out because you could be voted out at the next election. ( oh sorry I forgot you weren't actually voted in were you.)

I cannot understand why the powers that be cannot see what a wonderful country this could be if they would only sort things out. Coming down hard on visa's etc and avoiding sorting out the corruption is not a serious attempt. Such a shame

[John1thru10]

I actually think the problem here is that the US chose to meet the ex PM which quite honestly was an incredibly stupid diplomatic error no matter how you look at it, they said in a statement they were not taking sides but this very meeting tells a different story.

It is well understood that the US must take a certain position when it comes to its stance on democracy but they also must recognise that Thailands solution to a growing political implosion and removal of a very obviously defunct administration has been the most peaceful and effective in recent global history, it is also worth mentioning that the current effort by all concerned seems like a genuine effort to produce a solid base for a future sustainable democracy in the not to distant future.

The recent US interference could have put the current stability at considerable risk and was therefore IMO an error, martial law is a draconian environment by any standards but perhaps a necessity in this instance while the reform process continues to conclusion without interference, it is also worth noting that certain factions were offered but refused to take part, it is easy to see the usual dogs biting at the heels with every opportunity - it is unfortunate but unavoidable that the mechanism to silence them needs to stay in place and so it should.

The PM's and NLA's reaction was not correct either, make a statement disagree and move along - done and dusted

If at the end of the process and a referendum and elections do not take place then that is a totally different ball game and the US would have every right to get involved along with other western countries - but for now they need to butt out and keep their diplomats under strict control and allow this process to run its course unabated.

and here is a quote from another thread that is very relevant to this

"If we comply [with US wishes] … and lift martial law and it leads to problems, how will those people who are asking for the lifting of martial law take responsibility?" Don said. "In reality, Thais don't even know there is martial law."

"In reality, Thais don't even know there is martial law." Well Smed, it that is the case then removing it would have no effect at all, would it not?

I think you understand as well as I do that for most of the Thai people it really has made zero impact on their lives but has curtailed the activities of those that would normally be up to no good and Thailand seems to have a fair share of them

Just come out and say you don't care about Thai people's rights, it's what you mean.

[docshock13]

The arrogance is unbelievable. But that's what you get with a legislature and cabinet full of handpicked military "friends" with little to no experience in governance and diplomacy.

I know some posters have mentioned N Korea and while Thailand is a long way off, I certainly feel it is inching closer day by day.

You are right in that "The arrogance is unbelievable".....just talking about the wrong country. Or its is about you too?

I've only shared my opinion (which you are free to disagree with) and I accept your opinion of the US and/or its foreign policy (even if I may not agree). But there is no need to make it personal, Generalissimo Umbanda. Perhaps I should report for "attitude adjustment" for having the "arrogance" to offer an opinion that differs to yours.

Edited January 30, 2015 by docshock13

[Kooweerup]

Guess there will a lot more foreigners summoned to explain. The Junta has no one to blame but themselves for the world turning their backs on them. They do have a small handful of expats tho who will lend a shoulder to cry on.

Thailand downgraded by US rights group

BANGKOK: -- Thailand again was placed by a US-based international rights watchdog, Freedom House, among the 51 countries and territories designated as "Not Free" on the condition of political rights and civil liberties.

It is the first time since 2007 that Thailand has been downgraded as “Not Free” when the country was under the administration of a military-appointed government that followed the 2006 coup.

[ianf]

I really hope the world laughs at these idiots.

This is the image Thailand wants in the world, they can have it. I hope the embassies keep goading them.

This is a very childish and pitiful effort to justify their undemocratic behaviour.

I thought you were 'Thai at heart'. Your comments seem to indicate otherwise. When you consider the extent to which Thaksin paid propagandists are manipulating the international media and such bodies as Amnesty International then you'd understand why the General has to protect his position. The comments made by the senior American fell out of the diplomatic norms and Thailand is quite right to respond in this way.

[attrayant]

As for the US and the world just don't understand Thai democracy

I think it's the opposite: Thai democracy doesn't understand the world.

[John1thru10]

I always notice around my little neighborhood and soi - very quiet, very family oriented - that people who are normally quite joyful and relaxed over years of observation, seem to feel a deep tension of some kind, over he days just before one of these statements comes out, lately. I've lived here long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a real smile and a smile of worry. They seemed worried the last days, again. And like clockwork - here's the latest threat. I assume, I think rightly, that we ex-pats are not the first in line to hear the news. Unless you are glued to Thai language newspapers and cues from television, then it's right to assume you aren't getting the news first.

To say that these events somehow magically don't effect Thai people, is absurd. It deeply affects them, of course. And I'm not referring to 'bad' people, or bar girls or 'rip off jet ski' matters, like people here are obsessed with. I'm speaking about law abiding, hard working, every day Thai families - I see the sadness they feel at this time, and it isn't directed at foreigners or the US, or in politic and party, so much as they just seem to feel worried about how far this 'return to Thainess' will go. Thainess to Thai people, refers to a deeply entrenched and harshly adhered to class-system, historically.

You have to understand Thai history, to even know what that means - going back to the end of WWII, not last year - to put this in perspective. The way some of you speak, here, it's as if you honestly believe the history of Thailand began last year. Or the day you first arrived. The arrogance of this view.

Edited January 30, 2015 by John1thru10

[mikiea]

I really hope the world laughs at these idiots.

This is the image Thailand wants in the world, they can have it. I hope the embassies keep goading them.

This is a very childish and pitiful effort to justify their undemocratic behaviour.

a coup by any other name , is still a coup :-)

[smedly]

and here is a quote from another thread that is very relevant to this

"If we comply [with US wishes] … and lift martial law and it leads to problems, how will those people who are asking for the lifting of martial law take responsibility?" Don said. "In reality, Thais don't even know there is martial law."

"In reality, Thais don't even know there is martial law." Well Smed, it that is the case then removing it would have no effect at all, would it not?

I think you understand as well as I do that for most of the Thai people it really has made zero impact on their lives but has curtailed the activities of those that would normally be up to no good and Thailand seems to have a fair share of them

Just come out and say you don't care about Thai people's rights, it's what you mean.

and you are now telling me how I think and what I mean - really ?

what I said is what I said, you can take whatever you want from it

[sugarcane24]

Urging Thailand to restore democracy is in my opinion a bit rich coming from a representative of a country which has specialised in toppling democratically elected governments all over the world over the past century.

It is surely also the epitome of hypocrisy to illegally invade and occupy sovereign countries "to restore democracy", and then to reprimand Thailand for waging a coup. Perhaps the US thinks that in doing so will cover the fact that the US government is the world's biggest terrorist organisation with a smokescreen.

[smedly]

I always notice around my little neighborhood and soi - very quiet, very family oriented - that people who are normally quite joyful and relaxed over years of observation, seem to feel a deep tension of some kind, over he days just before one of these statements comes out, lately. I've lived here long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a real smile and a smile of worry. They seemed worried the last days, again. And like clockwork - here's the latest threat. I assume, I think rightly, that we ex-pats are not the first in line to hear the news. Unless you are glued to Thai language newspapers and cues from television, then it's right to assume you aren't getting the news first.

To say that these events somehow magically don't effect Thai people, is absurd. It deeply affects them, of course. And I'm not referring to 'bad' people, or bar girls or 'rip off jet ski' matters, like people here are obsessed with. I'm speaking about law abiding, hard working, every day Thai families - I see the sadness they feel at this time, and it isn't directed at foreigners or the US, or in politic and party, so much as they just seem to feel worried about how far this 'return to Thainess' will go. Thainess to Thai people, refers to a deeply entrenched and harshly adhered to class-system, historically.

You have to understand Thai history, to even know what that means - going back to the end of WWII, not last year - to put this in perspective. The way some of you speak, here, it's as if you honestly believe the history of Thailand began last year. Or the day you first arrived. The arrogance of this view.

have you ever actually asked them, from your words above I'd be inclined to think that they are worried that Thailand will fall back to the political anarchy and conflict that existed just before the army intervened,

it may also be a factor that they are wondering how the people are going to pay for the 700 billion baht loss inflicted upon them by the last government and how they are going to get rid of a stock pile of millions of tonnes of rotting rice,

it could also be a factor that the first car scheme were they thought was a great idea to buy a new car (they didn't need) at a discount price (and are now struggling to make the payments) wasn't such a good idea after all,

it could also be a factor that they starting to realise how ill informed they have been about the great Shin dy(nasty) and through social media are catching on that they were all suckered and duped

should I go on or is that enough

[aripengu]

Oh The Jurassic Park Assembly!

[Larry001]

I really hope the world laughs at these idiots.

This is the image Thailand wants in the world, they can have it. I hope the embassies keep goading them.

This is a very childish and pitiful effort to justify their undemocratic behaviour.

You have the 'keystone cops' here. Now we have the 'keystone Polticians.'

[Kooweerup]

I really hope the world laughs at these idiots.

This is the image Thailand wants in the world, they can have it. I hope the embassies keep goading them.

This is a very childish and pitiful effort to justify their undemocratic behaviour.

I thought you were 'Thai at heart'. Your comments seem to indicate otherwise. When you consider the extent to which Thaksin paid propagandists are manipulating the international media and such bodies as Amnesty International then you'd understand why the General has to protect his position. The comments made by the senior American fell out of the diplomatic norms and Thailand is quite right to respond in this way.

I think being Thai at Heart and supporting the Junta are 2 very different things. because the poster has a different opinion to you does not mean he dislikes Thai or his user name is not real. The same could be said about your comment, you don't have Thai at Heart. Different opinions and feel thankful that you are allowed an opinion as the vast majority of Thais are not. Thais are not allowed to say what they feel as they are suppressed. They don't have a voice out of fear of being rounded up. Many will say that Thais are happy and not complaining but it has become illegal to complain and they live in constant fear.

[John1thru10]

I always notice around my little neighborhood and soi - very quiet, very family oriented - that people who are normally quite joyful and relaxed over years of observation, seem to feel a deep tension of some kind, over he days just before one of these statements comes out, lately. I've lived here long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a real smile and a smile of worry. They seemed worried the last days, again. And like clockwork - here's the latest threat. I assume, I think rightly, that we ex-pats are not the first in line to hear the news. Unless you are glued to Thai language newspapers and cues from television, then it's right to assume you aren't getting the news first.

To say that these events somehow magically don't effect Thai people, is absurd. It deeply affects them, of course. And I'm not referring to 'bad' people, or bar girls or 'rip off jet ski' matters, like people here are obsessed with. I'm speaking about law abiding, hard working, every day Thai families - I see the sadness they feel at this time, and it isn't directed at foreigners or the US, or in politic and party, so much as they just seem to feel worried about how far this 'return to Thainess' will go. Thainess to Thai people, refers to a deeply entrenched and harshly adhered to class-system, historically.

You have to understand Thai history, to even know what that means - going back to the end of WWII, not last year - to put this in perspective. The way some of you speak, here, it's as if you honestly believe the history of Thailand began last year. Or the day you first arrived. The arrogance of this view.

have you ever actually asked them, from your words above I'd be inclined to think that they are worried that Thailand will fall back to the political anarchy and conflict that existed just before the army intervened,

it may also be a factor that they are wondering how the people are going to pay for the 700 billion baht loss inflicted upon them by the last government and how they are going to get rid of a stock pile of millions of tonnes of rotting rice,

it could also be a factor that the first car scheme were they thought was a great idea to buy a new car (they didn't need) at a discount price (and are now struggling to make the payments) wasn't such a good idea after all,

it could also be a factor that they starting to realise how ill informed they have been about the great Shin dy(nasty) and through social media are catching on that they were all suckered and duped

should I go on or is that enough

Without wanting to come off sarcastic here, I'm sure they are worried about those things. And, very much at the same time, what I spoke of above. The mind is not that exclusive in regards to worry. People here oversimplify in their comments; as if anything historically has ever been 'and the right people won!' Have you ever studied Thai history going back to WWII? It's relevant, you know.

I wasn't a fan of the last PM, either. I wasn't a fan of George Bush, or Cameron, or Reagan or Thatcher. I'm not such a fan of Obama, or a lot of leaders today. But as much as I disagree with each, they all have one thing in common which I do respect: They were elected, and could be un-elected when need be. And they all had to - at least on some cursory level - follow the rule of law in seeing what they wanted (hypocritical in some way, or not). This is not that situation here anymore. Endless martial law, is what you celebrate, to remind you.

I don't have to always respect the way a country votes, to respect their right to. And at this time, Thai people - none of them, red yellow green or blue - have that right. You don't care about that? And, you don't think that the people around you care about that? You need a cup of coffee, friend. Regardless of your feelings (many of which may be valid) it's really arrogant to imply that millions of people in a foreign land are subject to your judgements as being undeserving of the right to vote.

Edited January 30, 2015 by John1thru10

[elgordo38]

So, every single nation outside Thailand should stick to the Junta in Thailand and have no opinion on their own?

Summon every body you want with your Thainess and "attitude adjustment", but realize that everybody outside Thailand is NOT THAI and don't think as a Thai.

Give him an all expenses free meals paid trip to the re-education camp.

[elgordo38]

I always notice around my little neighborhood and soi - very quiet, very family oriented - that people who are normally quite joyful and relaxed over years of observation, seem to feel a deep tension of some kind, over he days just before one of these statements comes out, lately. I've lived here long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a real smile and a smile of worry. They seemed worried the last days, again. And like clockwork - here's the latest threat. I assume, I think rightly, that we ex-pats are not the first in line to hear the news. Unless you are glued to Thai language newspapers and cues from television, then it's right to assume you aren't getting the news first.

To say that these events somehow magically don't effect Thai people, is absurd. It deeply affects them, of course. And I'm not referring to 'bad' people, or bar girls or 'rip off jet ski' matters, like people here are obsessed with. I'm speaking about law abiding, hard working, every day Thai families - I see the sadness they feel at this time, and it isn't directed at foreigners or the US, or in politic and party, so much as they just seem to feel worried about how far this 'return to Thainess' will go. Thainess to Thai people, refers to a deeply entrenched and harshly adhered to class-system, historically.

You have to understand Thai history, to even know what that means - going back to the end of WWII, not last year - to put this in perspective. The way some of you speak, here, it's as if you honestly believe the history of Thailand began last year. Or the day you first arrived. The arrogance of this view.

have you ever actually asked them, from your words above I'd be inclined to think that they are worried that Thailand will fall back to the political anarchy and conflict that existed just before the army intervened,

it may also be a factor that they are wondering how the people are going to pay for the 700 billion baht loss inflicted upon them by the last government and how they are going to get rid of a stock pile of millions of tonnes of rotting rice,

it could also be a factor that the first car scheme were they thought was a great idea to buy a new car (they didn't need) at a discount price (and are now struggling to make the payments) wasn't such a good idea after all,

it could also be a factor that they starting to realise how ill informed they have been about the great Shin dy(nasty) and through social media are catching on that they were all suckered and duped

should I go on or is that enough

Without wanting to come off sarcastic here, I'm sure they are worried about those things. And, very much at the same time, what I spoke of above. The mind is not that exclusive in regards to worry. People here oversimplify in their comments; as if anything historically has ever been 'and the right people won!' Have you ever studied Thai history going back to WWII? It's relevant, you know.

I wasn't a fan of the last PM, either. I wasn't a fan of George Bush, or Cameron, or Reagan or Thatcher. I'm not such a fan of Obama, or a lot of leaders today. But as much as I disagree with each, they all have one thing in common which I do respect: They were elected, and could be un-elected when need be. This is not that, at all.

I don't have to always respect the way a country votes, to respect their right to. And at this time, Thai people - none of them, red yellow green or blue - have that right. And making excuses for that, regardless of your feelings (many of which may be valid) is arrogant. In doing so, you literally place yourself - and as a foreigner no less - above the rights of millions.

Yes United States is a democracy of sorts. At election time you have a choice of bad apple #1 or bad apple #2 take your pick. Over the years the power has flowed and ebbed back and forth but in the end you still only get a bad apple. After your stint in power as president the really big money starts flowing in as large corporations want you to sit on their boards for large salaries to put your name on their letter head and the rubber chicken circuit will pay you hundreds of thousands of dollars for an hour of your time for you to sit in front of an audience and tell them what a wonderful job you did. You can also write a book on your years in office and the starving masses will goble it up. I have only scratched the surface on where the dollars lie ready to be plucked.

[smedly]

I always notice around my little neighborhood and soi - very quiet, very family oriented - that people who are normally quite joyful and relaxed over years of observation, seem to feel a deep tension of some kind, over he days just before one of these statements comes out, lately. I've lived here long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a real smile and a smile of worry. They seemed worried the last days, again. And like clockwork - here's the latest threat. I assume, I think rightly, that we ex-pats are not the first in line to hear the news. Unless you are glued to Thai language newspapers and cues from television, then it's right to assume you aren't getting the news first.

To say that these events somehow magically don't effect Thai people, is absurd. It deeply affects them, of course. And I'm not referring to 'bad' people, or bar girls or 'rip off jet ski' matters, like people here are obsessed with. I'm speaking about law abiding, hard working, every day Thai families - I see the sadness they feel at this time, and it isn't directed at foreigners or the US, or in politic and party, so much as they just seem to feel worried about how far this 'return to Thainess' will go. Thainess to Thai people, refers to a deeply entrenched and harshly adhered to class-system, historically.

You have to understand Thai history, to even know what that means - going back to the end of WWII, not last year - to put this in perspective. The way some of you speak, here, it's as if you honestly believe the history of Thailand began last year. Or the day you first arrived. The arrogance of this view.

have you ever actually asked them, from your words above I'd be inclined to think that they are worried that Thailand will fall back to the political anarchy and conflict that existed just before the army intervened,

it may also be a factor that they are wondering how the people are going to pay for the 700 billion baht loss inflicted upon them by the last government and how they are going to get rid of a stock pile of millions of tonnes of rotting rice,

it could also be a factor that the first car scheme were they thought was a great idea to buy a new car (they didn't need) at a discount price (and are now struggling to make the payments) wasn't such a good idea after all,

it could also be a factor that they starting to realise how ill informed they have been about the great Shin dy(nasty) and through social media are catching on that they were all suckered and duped

should I go on or is that enough

Without wanting to come off sarcastic here, I'm sure they are worried about those things. And, very much at the same time, what I spoke of above. The mind is not that exclusive in regards to worry. People here oversimplify in their comments; as if anything historically has ever been 'and the right people won!' Have you ever studied Thai history going back to WWII? It's relevant, you know.

I wasn't a fan of the last PM, either. I wasn't a fan of George Bush, or Cameron, or Reagan or Thatcher. I'm not such a fan of Obama, or a lot of leaders today. But as much as I disagree with each, they all have one thing in common which I do respect: They were elected, and could be un-elected when need be. This is not that, at all.

I don't have to always respect the way a country votes, to respect their right to. And at this time, Thai people - none of them, red yellow green or blue - have that right. And making excuses for that, regardless of your feelings (many of which may be valid) is arrogant. In doing so, you literally place yourself - and as a foreigner no less - above the rights of millions.

the one thing that all right minded people and leaders must have in everything they do is "reasonable justification"

Just think about those two words for a moment and apply them to every world event for the last 20 years - and then after the events have ended see whether you think they did really apply.

Did the Army have "reasonable justification" for their actions in Thailand last year ? my own opinion is "yes they did"

Are they now justified in pushing through reforms before elections - I believe so, when the process is complete will they be able to justify what they did and how they did it - jury is out on that one and cannot be answered until it is concluded

[Tarowand]

I understand the Military supporters protested out side the U.S. embassy. I thought all protesters were to be arrested?? Things can only get worse. But still a wonderful country with wonderful people.

[Donnie Brasco]

Didn't Mr Russel was just telling the truth and called for a return to normality? Their reactions is a clear indicator that they are very well aware that the coup was unlawful and that the momentary situation in Thailand is against all democratic standards. But it is the Thai way. Never listen and threaten the ones who dare to tell the truth.

The funny thing is, they could actually have agreed with him and said ,"yes, we know its not perfect, but we are working through the issues".

But no. They throw a tizzy. Its time for a few of these children to be put in the corner to wear the dunces cap.

Honestly, the embassies should keep on at them, they obviously have them all up tight. Tease them mercilessly. How do you post "democracy for dummies" to the NLA.

Maybe the US will give them something to think about by re-calling the Charge to the State Dept for ' urgent discussions on the situation '.

Forget a reduced presence at Cobra Gold, try not appropriate to take part in the current climate.

The problem is will anything get through to the circus ?

You mean a "rook move" to just suspend Cobra Gold ?

Really ?

Have you even thought this through ?

Not suspend but dangle the hint out there, common ' diplomatic ' practice. Nations do say things they have little intention of doing but don't mind marking cards.

Anyway with so many nations supposedly involved it could still go ahead but hardly worthwhile without the US input.

I agree.

It's quite heartening to read this kind of remark. . . . . . even if we ARE somewhat hampered by this particular format.

Let's not forget China's somewhat asymmetrical response to this hint; its a "hint" that's been in play for at least a decade.

The seminal elements are already firmly in place.

Some set up a coupla decades ago and others were NAILED a few months ago.

On top of that, Thai Unis and Corps are absolutely "truffled" with diligent polite career-minded exchange students and junior intern cadre types from Yunaan who have seen army service. The only thing they have in common with their Peace Corps counterparts is an aversion to cracking fluent Thai.

3-D Chess, anyone ?

Maybe a 4th layer (time ?) laid on for the purposes of discussion.

[John1thru10]

I always notice around my little neighborhood and soi - very quiet, very family oriented - that people who are normally quite joyful and relaxed over years of observation, seem to feel a deep tension of some kind, over he days just before one of these statements comes out, lately. I've lived here long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a real smile and a smile of worry. They seemed worried the last days, again. And like clockwork - here's the latest threat. I assume, I think rightly, that we ex-pats are not the first in line to hear the news. Unless you are glued to Thai language newspapers and cues from television, then it's right to assume you aren't getting the news first.

To say that these events somehow magically don't effect Thai people, is absurd. It deeply affects them, of course. And I'm not referring to 'bad' people, or bar girls or 'rip off jet ski' matters, like people here are obsessed with. I'm speaking about law abiding, hard working, every day Thai families - I see the sadness they feel at this time, and it isn't directed at foreigners or the US, or in politic and party, so much as they just seem to feel worried about how far this 'return to Thainess' will go. Thainess to Thai people, refers to a deeply entrenched and harshly adhered to class-system, historically.

You have to understand Thai history, to even know what that means - going back to the end of WWII, not last year - to put this in perspective. The way some of you speak, here, it's as if you honestly believe the history of Thailand began last year. Or the day you first arrived. The arrogance of this view.

have you ever actually asked them, from your words above I'd be inclined to think that they are worried that Thailand will fall back to the political anarchy and conflict that existed just before the army intervened,

it may also be a factor that they are wondering how the people are going to pay for the 700 billion baht loss inflicted upon them by the last government and how they are going to get rid of a stock pile of millions of tonnes of rotting rice,

it could also be a factor that the first car scheme were they thought was a great idea to buy a new car (they didn't need) at a discount price (and are now struggling to make the payments) wasn't such a good idea after all,

it could also be a factor that they starting to realise how ill informed they have been about the great Shin dy(nasty) and through social media are catching on that they were all suckered and duped

should I go on or is that enough

Without wanting to come off sarcastic here, I'm sure they are worried about those things. And, very much at the same time, what I spoke of above. The mind is not that exclusive in regards to worry. People here oversimplify in their comments; as if anything historically has ever been 'and the right people won!' Have you ever studied Thai history going back to WWII? It's relevant, you know.

I wasn't a fan of the last PM, either. I wasn't a fan of George Bush, or Cameron, or Reagan or Thatcher. I'm not such a fan of Obama, or a lot of leaders today. But as much as I disagree with each, they all have one thing in common which I do respect: They were elected, and could be un-elected when need be. This is not that, at all.

I don't have to always respect the way a country votes, to respect their right to. And at this time, Thai people - none of them, red yellow green or blue - have that right. And making excuses for that, regardless of your feelings (many of which may be valid) is arrogant. In doing so, you literally place yourself - and as a foreigner no less - above the rights of millions.

Yes United States is a democracy of sorts. At election time you have a choice of bad apple #1 or bad apple #2 take your pick. Over the years the power has flowed and ebbed back and forth but in the end you still only get a bad apple. After your stint in power as president the really big money starts flowing in as large corporations want you to sit on their boards for large salaries to put your name on their letter head and the rubber chicken circuit will pay you hundreds of thousands of dollars for an hour of your time for you to sit in front of an audience and tell them what a wonderful job you did. You can also write a book on your years in office and the starving masses will goble it up. I have only scratched the surface on where the dollars lie ready to be plucked.

Remind me again, however, when the last time that America threatened (real) imprisonment for simply speaking ill of a politician on facebook? Because that's what this article is about, to remind you.

[John1thru10]

I always notice around my little neighborhood and soi - very quiet, very family oriented - that people who are normally quite joyful and relaxed over years of observation, seem to feel a deep tension of some kind, over he days just before one of these statements comes out, lately. I've lived here long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a real smile and a smile of worry. They seemed worried the last days, again. And like clockwork - here's the latest threat. I assume, I think rightly, that we ex-pats are not the first in line to hear the news. Unless you are glued to Thai language newspapers and cues from television, then it's right to assume you aren't getting the news first.

To say that these events somehow magically don't effect Thai people, is absurd. It deeply affects them, of course. And I'm not referring to 'bad' people, or bar girls or 'rip off jet ski' matters, like people here are obsessed with. I'm speaking about law abiding, hard working, every day Thai families - I see the sadness they feel at this time, and it isn't directed at foreigners or the US, or in politic and party, so much as they just seem to feel worried about how far this 'return to Thainess' will go. Thainess to Thai people, refers to a deeply entrenched and harshly adhered to class-system, historically.

You have to understand Thai history, to even know what that means - going back to the end of WWII, not last year - to put this in perspective. The way some of you speak, here, it's as if you honestly believe the history of Thailand began last year. Or the day you first arrived. The arrogance of this view.

have you ever actually asked them, from your words above I'd be inclined to think that they are worried that Thailand will fall back to the political anarchy and conflict that existed just before the army intervened,

it may also be a factor that they are wondering how the people are going to pay for the 700 billion baht loss inflicted upon them by the last government and how they are going to get rid of a stock pile of millions of tonnes of rotting rice,

it could also be a factor that the first car scheme were they thought was a great idea to buy a new car (they didn't need) at a discount price (and are now struggling to make the payments) wasn't such a good idea after all,

it could also be a factor that they starting to realise how ill informed they have been about the great Shin dy(nasty) and through social media are catching on that they were all suckered and duped

should I go on or is that enough

Without wanting to come off sarcastic here, I'm sure they are worried about those things. And, very much at the same time, what I spoke of above. The mind is not that exclusive in regards to worry. People here oversimplify in their comments; as if anything historically has ever been 'and the right people won!' Have you ever studied Thai history going back to WWII? It's relevant, you know.

I wasn't a fan of the last PM, either. I wasn't a fan of George Bush, or Cameron, or Reagan or Thatcher. I'm not such a fan of Obama, or a lot of leaders today. But as much as I disagree with each, they all have one thing in common which I do respect: They were elected, and could be un-elected when need be. This is not that, at all.

I don't have to always respect the way a country votes, to respect their right to. And at this time, Thai people - none of them, red yellow green or blue - have that right. And making excuses for that, regardless of your feelings (many of which may be valid) is arrogant. In doing so, you literally place yourself - and as a foreigner no less - above the rights of millions.

the one thing that all right minded people and leaders must have in everything they do is "reasonable justification"

Just think about those two words for a moment and apply them to every world event for the last 20 years - and then after the events have ended see whether you think they did really apply.

Did the Army have "reasonable justification" for their actions in Thailand last year ? my own opinion is "yes they did"

Are they now justified in pushing through reforms before elections - I believe so, when the process is complete will they be able to justify what they did and how they did it - jury is out on that one and cannot be answered until it is concluded

Ok. But I believe, that when people are threatened with imprisonment for peacefully speaking their minds - and that is the case, agree with how they feel or not - then, I don't know anymore. I don't believe you should go to prison for speaking your mind, for example. Why should someone else? If the situation were reversed somehow, and people were calling you a criminal for writing what you did above, I would defend your right to have done so, as well.

Edited January 30, 2015 by John1thru10

[sabaii69]

Now just put up a sign 'yankee go home' and the US can find something else to do with their 100 million foreign aid, and save on sending US military to Thailand. Let someone else be the rich uncle (Sam)

[John1thru10]

I always notice around my little neighborhood and soi - very quiet, very family oriented - that people who are normally quite joyful and relaxed over years of observation, seem to feel a deep tension of some kind, over he days just before one of these statements comes out, lately. I've lived here long enough to be able to recognize the difference between a real smile and a smile of worry. They seemed worried the last days, again. And like clockwork - here's the latest threat. I assume, I think rightly, that we ex-pats are not the first in line to hear the news. Unless you are glued to Thai language newspapers and cues from television, then it's right to assume you aren't getting the news first.

To say that these events somehow magically don't effect Thai people, is absurd. It deeply affects them, of course. And I'm not referring to 'bad' people, or bar girls or 'rip off jet ski' matters, like people here are obsessed with. I'm speaking about law abiding, hard working, every day Thai families - I see the sadness they feel at this time, and it isn't directed at foreigners or the US, or in politic and party, so much as they just seem to feel worried about how far this 'return to Thainess' will go. Thainess to Thai people, refers to a deeply entrenched and harshly adhered to class-system, historically.

You have to understand Thai history, to even know what that means - going back to the end of WWII, not last year - to put this in perspective. The way some of you speak, here, it's as if you honestly believe the history of Thailand began last year. Or the day you first arrived. The arrogance of this view.

have you ever actually asked them, from your words above I'd be inclined to think that they are worried that Thailand will fall back to the political anarchy and conflict that existed just before the army intervened,

it may also be a factor that they are wondering how the people are going to pay for the 700 billion baht loss inflicted upon them by the last government and how they are going to get rid of a stock pile of millions of tonnes of rotting rice,

it could also be a factor that the first car scheme were they thought was a great idea to buy a new car (they didn't need) at a discount price (and are now struggling to make the payments) wasn't such a good idea after all,

it could also be a factor that they starting to realise how ill informed they have been about the great Shin dy(nasty) and through social media are catching on that they were all suckered and duped

should I go on or is that enough

Without wanting to come off sarcastic here, I'm sure they are worried about those things. And, very much at the same time, what I spoke of above. The mind is not that exclusive in regards to worry. People here oversimplify in their comments; as if anything historically has ever been 'and the right people won!' Have you ever studied Thai history going back to WWII? It's relevant, you know.

I wasn't a fan of the last PM, either. I wasn't a fan of George Bush, or Cameron, or Reagan or Thatcher. I'm not such a fan of Obama, or a lot of leaders today. But as much as I disagree with each, they all have one thing in common which I do respect: They were elected, and could be un-elected when need be. This is not that, at all.

I don't have to always respect the way a country votes, to respect their right to. And at this time, Thai people - none of them, red yellow green or blue - have that right. And making excuses for that, regardless of your feelings (many of which may be valid) is arrogant. In doing so, you literally place yourself - and as a foreigner no less - above the rights of millions.

the one thing that all right minded people and leaders must have in everything they do is "reasonable justification"

Just think about those two words for a moment and apply them to every world event for the last 20 years - and then after the events have ended see whether you think they did really apply.

Did the Army have "reasonable justification" for their actions in Thailand last year ? my own opinion is "yes they did"

Are they now justified in pushing through reforms before elections - I believe so, when the process is complete will they be able to justify what they did and how they did it - jury is out on that one and cannot be answered until it is concluded

The one thing that all right minded people and leaders encourage is FREEDOM OF SPEECH, I would add.

Edited January 30, 2015 by John1thru10

[davidstipek]

If it is true that the US and the world doesn't properly understand Thainess or the ridiculous concept of 'Thai Democracy', perhaps the Thai government should do better in trying to explain it. The problem of course is that if they did actually try to explain it properly, they'd all be thrown in jail for lese majeste.

I guess they've got a point when they say this is a unique situation in the world.

Which is worse? Their explaining "Thai Democracy"?? Or... What happens if you throw mud or drag the Royalty though it by miss using the Trust placed upon you and what your being appointed to PM by swamping it and total disregard. By doing what You want to do... and getting caught. Any Impeachment of a PM also should carry a term for Le'se Majeste....

Highest Office in the Land... Only filled with final OK from Monarchy... any offense committed in office is or should be labeled "Le'se Majeste"....

[hawker9000]

The arrogance is unbelievable. But that's what you get with a legislature and cabinet full of handpicked military "friends" with little to no experience in governance and diplomacy.

I know some posters have mentioned N Korea and while Thailand is a long way off, I certainly feel it is inching closer day by day.

Don't be ridiculous.