Best of the Boxed Wines?

[binjalin]

For more than seven years now, I have been enjoying Corte Antica, an Italian table wine in five liter glass jugs, white or red, for B940-980 at Tesco and Makro here in the South. Makes those boxed wines and the hit and miss unknown bottled wines seem a poor joke.

I don't really know the wine so can't really comment on it, other than to ask the question that surely unless you are drinking more than a litre a day, by the time you got to the bottom of the 5 L jug, the wine would surely have gotten to the stage of being almost undrinkable, because of the wines reaction to the air in the bottle?

That is one of the "benefits" of cask or boxed wine, in as much as the bladder containing the wine collapses when wine is poured out, thereby ensuring that only a minute amount of air enters, so it has a life of around five or six weeks after opening.

I agree, that is a good point. It seems to last in a cool room tightly-capped for about a month--that is only a little more than a liter a week. However, you can always rebottle it and store it propery. Quite frankly, when I first arrived and found the wine, I was staying with a friend. After the first couple of jugs, we agree to never again purchase only one jug, it seemed to disappear the night we bought it. And, the jug is really great for parties when several winos are present.

and it does not have fruit juice added?

[Anthony5]

For more than seven years now, I have been enjoying Corte Antica, an Italian table wine in five liter glass jugs, white or red, for B940-980 at Tesco and Makro here in the South. Makes those boxed wines and the hit and miss unknown bottled wines seem a poor joke.

I don't really know the wine so can't really comment on it, other than to ask the question that surely unless you are drinking more than a litre a day, by the time you got to the bottom of the 5 L jug, the wine would surely have gotten to the stage of being almost undrinkable, because of the wines reaction to the air in the bottle?

That is one of the "benefits" of cask or boxed wine, in as much as the bladder containing the wine collapses when wine is poured out, thereby ensuring that only a minute amount of air enters, so it has a life of around five or six weeks after opening.

I agree, that is a good point. It seems to last in a cool room tightly-capped for about a month--that is only a little more than a liter a week. However, you can always rebottle it and store it propery. Quite frankly, when I first arrived and found the wine, I was staying with a friend. After the first couple of jugs, we agree to never again purchase only one jug, it seemed to disappear the night we bought it. And, the jug is really great for parties when several winos are present.

So you claim that a bottle of that Italian wine stays fine for a month after it was opened first time?

Glad we don't have the same taste buds.

[xylophone]

For more than seven years now, I have been enjoying Corte Antica, an Italian table wine in five liter glass jugs, white or red, for B940-980 at Tesco and Makro here in the South. Makes those boxed wines and the hit and miss unknown bottled wines seem a poor joke.

It is mixed with fruit and very sweet. Good with fruit, dessert or for sangria, terrible with any other kind of meal... Very difficult to get a decent wine in Thailand without spending a lot. I work for an Italian food supplier, we also sell wines, so I know a little bit. best quality versus price are definitively the Chileans. there is a wine called Viu Manent. The Sauvignon Blanc is superb for the price, but you are looking at 460 for a bottle. To be able to find this quality with other wines you need to spend a lot more...

You must be tasting something else. The red is almost dry, the white a bit tart.

I may have solved the problem...........found a 5L flagon of Corte Antica which has fruit juice and sugar added to it AND also came across a 5L flagon of it which doesn't (not that I could make out on the label anyway).

Both red wines I should add.

[smotherb]

For more than seven years now, I have been enjoying Corte Antica, an Italian table wine in five liter glass jugs, white or red, for B940-980 at Tesco and Makro here in the South. Makes those boxed wines and the hit and miss unknown bottled wines seem a poor joke.

It is mixed with fruit and very sweet. Good with fruit, dessert or for sangria, terrible with any other kind of meal... Very difficult to get a decent wine in Thailand without spending a lot. I work for an Italian food supplier, we also sell wines, so I know a little bit. best quality versus price are definitively the Chileans. there is a wine called Viu Manent. The Sauvignon Blanc is superb for the price, but you are looking at 460 for a bottle. To be able to find this quality with other wines you need to spend a lot more...

You must be tasting something else. The red is almost dry, the white a bit tart.

I may have solved the problem...........found a 5L flagon of Corte Antica which has fruit juice and sugar added to it AND also came across a 5L flagon of it which doesn't (not that I could make out on the label anyway).

Both red wines I should add.

We are discussing an ordinary table wine. Certainly, some of the finer characteristics of the wine can diminish in even a few hours if oxidized; however, if kept cool and air-tight, it is still palatable for some time--although, I have to admit, I have not had much of it last a month to taste.

[smotherb]

For more than seven years now, I have been enjoying Corte Antica, an Italian table wine in five liter glass jugs, white or red, for B940-980 at Tesco and Makro here in the South. Makes those boxed wines and the hit and miss unknown bottled wines seem a poor joke.

It is mixed with fruit and very sweet. Good with fruit, dessert or for sangria, terrible with any other kind of meal... Very difficult to get a decent wine in Thailand without spending a lot. I work for an Italian food supplier, we also sell wines, so I know a little bit. best quality versus price are definitively the Chileans. there is a wine called Viu Manent. The Sauvignon Blanc is superb for the price, but you are looking at 460 for a bottle. To be able to find this quality with other wines you need to spend a lot more...

You must be tasting something else. The red is almost dry, the white a bit tart.

I may have solved the problem...........found a 5L flagon of Corte Antica which has fruit juice and sugar added to it AND also came across a 5L flagon of it which doesn't (not that I could make out on the label anyway).

Both red wines I should add.

That is good to know. I have never encountered the fruit juice and sugar added variety; and I have quaffed a lot of this wine--as a matter of fact, I gave 20 of the glass jugs to a friend who used them as lamps at his outdoor Thai eatery. I have given several jugs to my tuk-tuk driver--they make great banks and fish tanks in addition to lamps--other uses can be imagined.

[binjalin]

That is good to know. I have never encountered the fruit juice and sugar added variety; and I have quaffed a lot of this wine--as a matter of fact, I gave 20 of the glass jugs to a friend who used them as lamps at his outdoor Thai eatery. I have given several jugs to my tuk-tuk driver--they make great banks and fish tanks in addition to lamps--other uses can be imagined.

so they don't have fruit juice added? if this is true I will go hunt some out

[xylophone]

That is good to know. I have never encountered the fruit juice and sugar added variety; and I have quaffed a lot of this wine--as a matter of fact, I gave 20 of the glass jugs to a friend who used them as lamps at his outdoor Thai eatery. I have given several jugs to my tuk-tuk driver--they make great banks and fish tanks in addition to lamps--other uses can be imagined.

so they don't have fruit juice added? if this is true I will go hunt some out

I think it prudent to remember that if 5L is going to take you some/many days to consume that the wine will deteriorate somewhat, even though a cool storage space will help, the air in the bottle will set in motion a breakdown of the wine's components, as I think "smotherb" alludes to in one of his posts.

[binjalin]

That is good to know. I have never encountered the fruit juice and sugar added variety; and I have quaffed a lot of this wine--as a matter of fact, I gave 20 of the glass jugs to a friend who used them as lamps at his outdoor Thai eatery. I have given several jugs to my tuk-tuk driver--they make great banks and fish tanks in addition to lamps--other uses can be imagined.

so they don't have fruit juice added? if this is true I will go hunt some out

I think it prudent to remember that if 5L is going to take you some/many days to consume that the wine will deteriorate somewhat, even though a cool storage space will help, the air in the bottle will set in motion a breakdown of the wine's components, as I think "smotherb" alludes to in one of his posts

very good point... back to the Mar Sol I guess as, because it's dry, is probably the best of the 'boxes'

[Anthony5]

That is good to know. I have never encountered the fruit juice and sugar added variety; and I have quaffed a lot of this wine--as a matter of fact, I gave 20 of the glass jugs to a friend who used them as lamps at his outdoor Thai eatery. I have given several jugs to my tuk-tuk driver--they make great banks and fish tanks in addition to lamps--other uses can be imagined.

so they don't have fruit juice added? if this is true I will go hunt some out

I think it prudent to remember that if 5L is going to take you some/many days to consume that the wine will deteriorate somewhat, even though a cool storage space will help, the air in the bottle will set in motion a breakdown of the wine's components, as I think "smotherb" alludes to in one of his posts.

According to Smotherb, once opened it would even last up to a month, which I think gives an indication about his knowledge about wine.

[wedders]

Ok I have enjoyed this thread and especially xylophone's contributions here, and elsewhere. I am curious though as to the details. Which fruit juice or juices is/are added and in what quantities, so as to avoid the heavy import taxes? Are they all bulk imported inferior wines that end up being boxed over here, or are some made from imported grape juice?

Not that this information will make it taste any better, but I am just curious.... plus I run a FB food review group and I keep getting asked questions like why is Mont Clair so ******* terrible. In fact now I think about it, why is it substantially worse than the other boxed wines, if they are all wine/fruit juice blends?

[smotherb]

That is good to know. I have never encountered the fruit juice and sugar added variety; and I have quaffed a lot of this wine--as a matter of fact, I gave 20 of the glass jugs to a friend who used them as lamps at his outdoor Thai eatery. I have given several jugs to my tuk-tuk driver--they make great banks and fish tanks in addition to lamps--other uses can be imagined.

so they don't have fruit juice added? if this is true I will go hunt some out

I think it prudent to remember that if 5L is going to take you some/many days to consume that the wine will deteriorate somewhat, even though a cool storage space will help, the air in the bottle will set in motion a breakdown of the wine's components, as I think "smotherb" alludes to in one of his posts.

According to Smotherb, once opened it would even last up to a month, which I think gives an indication about his knowledge about wine.

We are speaking of a table wine and up to a month in a cool place tightly capped is what I said. Deriding my knowledge of wine without tasting the wine I suggest seems to be the best you can do.

[xylophone]

Ok I have enjoyed this thread and especially xylophone's contributions here, and elsewhere. I am curious though as to the details. Which fruit juice or juices is/are added and in what quantities, so as to avoid the heavy import taxes? Are they all bulk imported inferior wines that end up being boxed over here, or are some made from imported grape juice?

Not that this information will make it taste any better, but I am just curious.... plus I run a FB food review group and I keep getting asked questions like why is Mont Clair so ******* terrible. In fact now I think about it, why is it substantially worse than the other boxed wines, if they are all wine/fruit juice blends?

Thank you for your kind words regarding my contributions, much appreciated.

You may know that there is a "Montclair" thread running on which I have posted many times about various wines and the "whys and wherefores" of wines in general, however I will try to give you an abbreviated answer to your question(s).

There are a few categories of wine with fruit juice added so I will try to cover them all starting with Montclair, which is imported South African grape juice, fermented here in Thailand by Siam Winery and with the hibiscus fruit/juice added to it, before being boxed and sold. This is cleverly concealed on the box and the only indication you will get will be something stating "Fruit Wine" tucked away on the box.

I seem to recall that it was suggested that the fruit content could be up to 15%, however nothing has been forthcoming from the winery when I have enquired as to this.

All of the other boxed wines from Siam Winery are made in the same way, with grape juice being imported from the various countries and fruit juice added here. To name but a few, they are: – Peter Vella, Mar Y Sol, Cask 88, Famille Castel, Berri Estates and a few others which escape my memory as of writing.

They also have a range of bottled wines which include fruit juice (and a couple of the above-mentioned are also sold in bottle): – Kookaburras Head, Chateaux Vendome, Naga, and not sure about Carlo Rossi (can't remember!).

One thing that seems to be a giveaway is that any of the bottled wines which are, say 360 baht and under, are almost sure to contain some fruit juice. And as I said, just about any boxed wine from Siam Winery will be the same.

Other boxes/cask wines which include fruit juice are: – Castle Creek, Cedar Creek, Bodegas Valley (Australian, not Chilean) and maybe Jimberroo, and I also looked at a 3 L box of French wine with a "Bordeaux bottle" picture on the box and that also includes fruit juice!!

Various other bottles of wine include fruit juice and include: – Belleville (both the French and Australian originated wines), the cheaper bottles of a wine called "Rolling/Passing Clouds", the Jump Yards range from the Wine Connection and their new cheapie which has its origins in France and is around the same price of 349 baht a bottle. The Wine connection wines are bottled in Vietnam, with imported grape juice and fruit juice added.

Many of the box/cask wines do state on the box that the wine has had fruit juice added, this especially if they originate in Australia which seems to have no problem with stating this upfront whereas the wines from Siam Winery do not state this.

As for what particular fruit is added, and I'm mainly going on the reds because that's really my main focus, apart from the hibiscus fruit/flower for Montclair, peach juice, blackberry and blackcurrant juice (described as black fruits juice) seem to be the most common and I do know that one particular white wine has passion-fruit juice added to it.

As you can see many of them are imported grape juice, usually from bulk wine producing areas, which are fermented in Thailand and Vietnam, whereas some originate in the likes of Australia as wines produced and fermented in the bulk wine producing areas such as the Riverina– – and from what I can gather, a couple of companies actually make a living by buying up the bulk wine, adding the fruit juice and exporting it, as they do not have wine producing facilities of their own, whereas others do.

So you could say they were inferior wines, however that depends upon your view point, I just think they are wines made to a price point and to be perfectly honest, I have tried the Montclair on many occasions and it is okay when chilled and if drunk with a spicy Thai dish, but not something I would normally drink. I occasionally buy the Berri Estates red wine cask and keep it in the fridge for the occasional glass and in my opinion it is the best of the bunch, although I have been "chastised/berated" on a thread for suggesting such a thing!!!

As for the tax angle, well GrantSmith is the expert on that subject and is also a poster of much good wine knowledge and information, and he has posted on it on the Montclair thread if you care to visit it (in the latter few pages/posts).

I will finish by saying that from a personal standpoint, I find that these box/cask wines do give me a slight headache, even before I retire for the evening and even after just a couple of glasses, and I'm wondering if it is because of the addition of the fruit juice and/or perhaps more sulphur dioxide or similar preservatives added to keep the wine stable.

There is one trick that restaurateurs can utilise to mask any "unfavourable characteristics" of a wine, and that is to serve it very cool/cold so it is drunk before the faults have time to show!

I hope this helps and only too pleased to answer any more questions regarding wine, because it is a hobby of mine and has been for over 40 years, as has been the collecting and drinking of the same!!

[xylophone]

That is good to know. I have never encountered the fruit juice and sugar added variety; and I have quaffed a lot of this wine--as a matter of fact, I gave 20 of the glass jugs to a friend who used them as lamps at his outdoor Thai eatery. I have given several jugs to my tuk-tuk driver--they make great banks and fish tanks in addition to lamps--other uses can be imagined.

so they don't have fruit juice added? if this is true I will go hunt some out

I think it prudent to remember that if 5L is going to take you some/many days to consume that the wine will deteriorate somewhat, even though a cool storage space will help, the air in the bottle will set in motion a breakdown of the wine's components, as I think "smotherb" alludes to in one of his posts.

According to Smotherb, once opened it would even last up to a month, which I think gives an indication about his knowledge about wine.

Perhaps one thing to bear in mind is that we all have different taste buds, and I have sat around a table with a few bottles of wine with a bunch of guys from Australia, NZ and the USA and we have tasted the various wines.

One in particular I found to be oxidised and certainly not to my liking (age and/or possibly air in the bottle) whereas a couple of the guys thought it was okay? And this has happened on a few occasions so it isn't just a one-off I believe.

It is a fact that once air is let into the bottle and makes contact with the wine, then a reaction takes place with some of the phenolic compounds and this can cause oxidation and is in fact a chemical reaction. In addition to that there are airborne yeasts and bacteria which can get in and you get the taste of "vinegar" (acetic acid) in some instances.

Once the air is in, then even closing the bottle again makes no difference because the reaction has started.

What can make a difference is the pumping out of the air, even though some will already be dissolved within the wine, and keeping it in a cool dark place (a fridge is even better). It may even be that this particular wine has the addition of something (fruit juice or preservatives for example) which help it to last a lot longer – – not having tasted it, I can't really comment any further.

As a matter of interest, the oxidation of a wine can give it a "Sherry-like taste" or have those characteristics and for some folk this is okay, as indeed Sherry is basically an oxidised wine. After all we are all different in what we taste and what we like and that extends far beyond wine.

[wedders]

Xylophone - thank you for such a comprehensive response, genuinely appreciated.

I will try again to look at the last few pages of the Mont Clair thread, but the phone app won't let me scroll to the last page directly and keeps freezing as I work my way through.

I lived in or close to the wine regions of France for twenty-five years, and it is my biggest regret living here that I have failed miserably to find anything approaching a drinkable French wine for less than 800 baht. I know I should be looking to other wine producers, but I have little knowledge of these, and haven't the time to do the research, nor the means to experiment randomly.

As the years pass, I am finding anything with much more than a hint of harsh tannins to give more pain than pleasure. Cannot stomach them any more. So I tended to drink more Burgundy Pinot Noir than anything else, in latter years. That said, while on the subject of boxed wines, I found the better wines sold bulk in my local winery (Rasteau) were quite gentle on the stomach. Could not be kept in the cubitainer for more than a week though. Still, I wish I could get their Côtes du Rhône Villages at 4 a litre here! Thailand would at last be the perfect place to live

[xylophone]

Xylophone - thank you for such a comprehensive response, genuinely appreciated.

I will try again to look at the last few pages of the Mont Clair thread, but the phone app won't let me scroll to the last page directly and keeps freezing as I work my way through.

I lived in or close to the wine regions of France for twenty-five years, and it is my biggest regret living here that I have failed miserably to find anything approaching a drinkable French wine for less than 800 baht. I know I should be looking to other wine producers, but I have little knowledge of these, and haven't the time to do the research, nor the means to experiment randomly.

As the years pass, I am finding anything with much more than a hint of harsh tannins to give more pain than pleasure. Cannot stomach them any more. So I tended to drink more Burgundy Pinot Noir than anything else, in latter years. That said, while on the subject of boxed wines, I found the better wines sold bulk in my local winery (Rasteau) were quite gentle on the stomach. Could not be kept in the cubitainer for more than a week though. Still, I wish I could get their Côtes du Rhône Villages at 4 a litre here! Thailand would at last be the perfect place to live

I love wine and everything about it, so replying is a pleasure for me.

A slight alteration to the information I sent is the fact that not all of the bottles of the Castle Creek wine contain fruit juice, from what I can ascertain, some do and some don't (very confusing that)!. In addition an Australian bottled wine called "Rolling Grand Reserve Red Bin 22" is in fact a blend of Shiraz and fruit juice, yet it still retails for 499 baht a bottle!

You are very lucky man having lived in France near the wine regions for 25 years, something I would have loved and I did think about retiring there from NZ, however chose Thailand because my funds would go further and I could live a good life, whereas it would have been expensive in France, and someone of my age would have certainly been/become a bit of a hermit. Having said that, I have visited France on numerous occasions and was lucky enough to tour vineyards from top to bottom almost, with a French wine merchant friend, who had some very high-powered contacts in the wine industry and I could tell you many stories about private wine tastings with owners of some of the finest chateaux in France – – but perhaps another day.

I completely understand your comment about harsh tannins, because although I have migrated away from French style wines in general, to those with more body and fruit (Australian for example) sometimes I find that there is just too much extraction in some of these wines and I revert back to lighter styles for a while.

The problem being is that pound for pound/dollar for dollar Australian wine does produce a better product at the lower/mid end and that even shows through here despite the punitive tax system.

The French only have themselves to blame for allowing themselves to lose market share at the low to medium end of the wine market, because for years they were complacent and produced quite a lot of thin, acidic/poor quality wines and continued to export them to the likes of the UK because they thought there was a never-ending market there for them, however once the relatively well-made Australian wines hit the market, there was no going back.

I liked your comment about drinking Burgundian wines (Pinot Noir) because IMO there is nothing to touch a well-made Burgundy (I'm talking mid to top range) and that is something I miss here. In NZ where Pinot Noir has come on in leaps and bounds, they extol the virtues of their expensive South Island/Otago Pinot Noirs as being as good as those from Burgundy, however there is absolutely no comparison and the NZ $70 I paid for a supposedly top end NZ Pinot Noir was not a patch on the Burgundy I could have bought from my French wine merchant friend for the same price.

Finally on the subject of Cotes du Rhône..........well have tasted many good ones in my time and a few I wouldn't drink again, however there are some little gems to be found, despite the mass producers of the past damaging the reputation of these wines/this area by producing quite a lot of rubbish.

As regards French wines here, you may wish to check in with the Wine Connection and try one of their French wines called, "Rare Vineyards" as it is a Cabernet/Syrah wine from the South of France (Vins du pay d'Oc) and IMO it is a cross between an old world wine and a new world wine, not as gentle as a Burgundy, but certainly a well-made wine and at 599 baht is well worth trying.

Another one I have tried here and it's available in many supermarkets is Ch Lagarde and although it comes in a Bordeaux style bottle, it is actually from the South of France again and I think it retails at around 649 baht.

If you do try them, let me know what you think.

[wedders]

A little off topic - what is the definitive allowance to bring back into Thailand from abroad? I remember years ago in the No Man's Land duty free shop between Myanmar and Thailand at the Mai Sae crossing, being assured that it was ten bottles. I didn't believe them, but got away with it. Later I think that I read that only a single bottle was allowed... or possibly two?

I ask because I am going on a flying visit to France soon, and intend bringing back some Chène Bleu...

http://www.chenebleu.com

https://m.facebook.com/chenebleu

It would I am certain be the first bottle of Chène Bleu ever to be consumed in Thailand; it is a mind-blowingly great wine that can be found just 2km away as the crow flies from my home in France. Unbelievably a vin de pays, simply because it is just outside the AC Côtes du Rhône and Côtes du Ventoux regions. As good as the better Châteauneufs, in my opinion! But VdP or not, at 60€ a bottle, you pay for it. So I need to be absolutely certain it is not confiscated at Swampy...

[xylophone]

A little off topic - what is the definitive allowance to bring back into Thailand from abroad? I remember years ago in the No Man's Land duty free shop between Myanmar and Thailand at the Mai Sae crossing, being assured that it was ten bottles. I didn't believe them, but got away with it. Later I think that I read that only a single bottle was allowed... or possibly two?

I ask because I am going on a flying visit to France soon, and intend bringing back some Chène Bleu...

http://www.chenebleu.com

https://m.facebook.com/chenebleu

It would I am certain be the first bottle of Chène Bleu ever to be consumed in Thailand; it is a mind-blowingly great wine that can be found just 2km away as the crow flies from my home in France. Unbelievably a vin de pays, simply because it is just outside the AC Côtes du Rhône and Côtes du Ventoux regions. As good as the better Châteauneufs, in my opinion! But VdP or not, at 60€ a bottle, you pay for it. So I need to be absolutely certain it is not confiscated at Swampy...

Thank you for that information, wedders, as I had never heard of Chene Bleu, so it just goes to show you can learn something new everyday.

I particularly liked the fact that the Heloise wine, Syrah based, had some Viognier in it, much the same as some of the better Cote Roties, wines which I particularly like.

Just goes to show that if a vigneron has the money and time to develop the vineyards and the wine, then provided the soil and microclimates are about right, great wine can be made, even if they are classed as "country wines. Certainly others I visited in the Languedoc region such as Ch de La Negly and Canet-Valette have certainly made themselves a name with some very good wines in an area not known for good wines – – anyway I digress.

As regards bringing wine into the country, the last time I did it, 12 months ago, I was allowed two bottles, and a third one was about to be confiscated when the gentlemen concerned asked if I had any money on me, and I only had a NZ $20 note, which I showed him and he immediately took it from me and handed me the extra bottle of wine, so I wasn't about to argue.

I don't know how you would go about it if you wanted to bring a few bottles in and pay duty on them, however I wouldn't think it would be worth the risk, and certainly other knowledgeable folk such as GrantSmith may be able to throw some light on this.

[xylophone]

Subject: Boxed/cask wines and headaches.

It has been mentioned on quite a few posts, and by other people I speak to, that they get a headache when drinking some of the cask wines, and they have often asked why that should be, and I have had no real answer. However I have been putting a little thought to the matter and wonder if I might have hit on something. Please bear in mind that this is only supposition and I would welcome any feedback and constructive comments on it.

My theory goes something like this:

once grapes are pressed and the juice extracted, something needs to be done almost immediately to prevent the fermentation process starting, this because there are natural airborne yeasts on grapes. There are several possibilities for this; pasteurising the grape juice to stop fermentation/and or adding preservatives such as sulphur dioxide, and/or reducing the temperature quite markedly. The only problem with the temperature reduction method would be that the temperature would have to be closely controlled because any increase could be a problem especially with transporting grape juice from one place to another whilst keeping the bladders in which they are transported very cool (especially by ship from South Africa to Thailand for example).

So perhaps pasteurisation and sulphur dioxide are used in the main.

Once the grape juice arrives in Thailand, it is then fermented by virtue of the fact that fermentation is restarted with the addition of yeasts, so perhaps the sulphur dioxide method of keeping the grape juice inert is not practical because it would impede the fermentation process once it arrived in Thailand.

So the grape juice is fermented and as is most usual with cheaper wines, sulphur dioxide is added at the end of the process to prevent any secondary fermentation and also to kill any nasties. Then perhaps we have the addition of fruit juice which will have also been pasteurised and/or have sulphur dioxide added to it to prevent it fermenting, and there is the finished product.

As I said this is supposition but it can be seen that the final product could well have been subjected to pasteurisation (heating and keeping at a certain temperature), the addition of sulphur dioxide (possibly twice) and then the addition of grape juice which could well have had both of these processes applied to it.

It would certainly explain the headaches, certainly from my perspective any comments or other suggestions would be more than welcome.

[SooKee]

Only thing that concerns me with these wine boxes (provided I could find a good one to have that odd glass or two vs opening a bottle) is storage? I don't have a wine cooler here (I do have in my main home in Penang) and much of the time I'm out and rarely use air-con. So the ambient temperature in the apartment must be between 25-30 on a daily basis. So where to keep a box of red once it's opened?

The reason I bought the wine cooler is that with the same temperatures in Malaysia I had several bottles of good red wine turn to vinegar (bit bizarre I found when a local restaurant asked why I didn't give it to them for cooking) so I can't help thinking any box stored at ambient temperatures like that will go the same way. Long term fridge storage or a red would kill the taste over time but there aren't many other options??

[wedders]

Only thing that concerns me with these wine boxes (provided I could find a good one to have that odd glass or two vs opening a bottle) is storage? I don't have a wine cooler here (I do have in my main home in Penang) and much of the time I'm out and rarely use air-con. So the ambient temperature in the apartment must be between 25-30 on a daily basis. So where to keep a box of red once it's opened?

The reason I bought the wine cooler is that with the same temperatures in Malaysia I had several bottles of good red wine turn to vinegar (bit bizarre I found when a local restaurant asked why I didn't give it to them for cooking) so I can't help thinking any box stored at ambient temperatures like that will go the same way. Long term fridge storage or a red would kill the taste over time but there aren't many other options??

Well when I buy 10 litre cubitainers of wine in France - and I stress, this isn't wine box wine aka Thai fruit wine, but quality AOC Rasteau origin Côtes du Rhône Villages - the wine cooperative employees make a point of telling newbies either to drink it within a week, or bottle it immediately. Ok it might seem a little excessive to bottle such an average wine as the boxed stuff we buy in Thailand, but it is an option. I used sterilised old wine bottles with the half-sized corks. These won't keep the wine as long as the normal sized corks, but I found that 95% of the bottles were still good three or four months later, and the odd one I forgot about lasted six months.

On the negative side, even though this was midsummer in the south of France I still had some relatively cool places to store the bottled wine, the temperature never rising above 15-18 degrees, I doubt. Still it has to be preferable to leaving in the box for weeks on end. If I ever forgot about my half drunk cubitainer of Rasteau, the taste definitely started to deteriorate after 10-14 days.

[xylophone]

Only thing that concerns me with these wine boxes (provided I could find a good one to have that odd glass or two vs opening a bottle) is storage? I don't have a wine cooler here (I do have in my main home in Penang) and much of the time I'm out and rarely use air-con. So the ambient temperature in the apartment must be between 25-30 on a daily basis. So where to keep a box of red once it's opened?

The reason I bought the wine cooler is that with the same temperatures in Malaysia I had several bottles of good red wine turn to vinegar (bit bizarre I found when a local restaurant asked why I didn't give it to them for cooking) so I can't help thinking any box stored at ambient temperatures like that will go the same way. Long term fridge storage or a red would kill the taste over time but there aren't many other options??

Fine to keep the cask/boxed red in a fridge as chilling won't damage the wine and there are a couple of other options you could try: – try pouring some of the wine into a measuring jug or something similar and let it loose some of its "coolness" before transferring it to your wineglass to drink, or you can just take the cask/box out of the fridge for a while prior to drinking.

Keeping a cask/box wine in your apartment should be okay provided it is out of the sun and in the coolest place possible. However, as stated, keeping it long-term in the fridge is no problem, provided it is consumed within about six weeks after opening.

The only time alarm bells should ring with these type of wines is if the wine was "boxed" several years ago, or if they have been almost literally "boiled" by sitting in very high temperatures for a period of time.

As for your local restaurant asking why you didn't give them the spoiled wine for cooking, then that is a restaurant I would not visit!!!

[wedders]

Xylophone - not sure about allowing the wine to warm up. Might actually be able to taste it then

[NickJ]

Take your boxed wine......put it in the blender on hi for a minute. Wait till bubbles gone....drink.

[balo]

Have to agree with H90 -South African Mont Clair - as a guzzling wine - is the best value for money in Thailand. Except for a special occasion the bottled wines are simply far too overpriced. In Oz folk are spoilt for the range of wines to chose from at a very low price.

no no no Mont Clair is terrible... really bottom of all the boxed wines I'd have to say - there is a reason it's the cheapest! anyway it looks like there are NO boxed wines which do not have fruit juice added to save tax

AMAZING THAILAND

As mentioned before........Bodegas Centenarus is a Chilean wine which does not have fruit juice added.

Be careful because a similar looking cask wine, Bodegas Valley, has fruit juice added and is really from OZ, despite the name!!

After reading this thread and listened to the experts I have made up my mind. Where can I buy Bodegas Centenarus , and what's the price ?

I am tired of the 5 litre Mont clair , I'm halfway through and do not enjoy it.

[xylophone]

Have to agree with H90 -South African Mont Clair - as a guzzling wine - is the best value for money in Thailand. Except for a special occasion the bottled wines are simply far too overpriced. In Oz folk are spoilt for the range of wines to chose from at a very low price.

no no no Mont Clair is terrible... really bottom of all the boxed wines I'd have to say - there is a reason it's the cheapest! anyway it looks like there are NO boxed wines which do not have fruit juice added to save tax

AMAZING THAILAND

As mentioned before........Bodegas Centenarus is a Chilean wine which does not have fruit juice added.

Be careful because a similar looking cask wine, Bodegas Valley, has fruit juice added and is really from OZ, despite the name!!

After reading this thread and listened to the experts I have made up my mind. Where can I buy Bodegas Centenarus , and what's the price ?

I am tired of the 5 litre Mont clair , I'm halfway through and do not enjoy it.

That's the $64,000 question I'm afraid, because although I used to buy it in both Big C and Villa Market, I haven't seen it around for a while. Maybe it could not compete with the prices of the boxed/cask wine with added fruit juice?

I have said this before, and no doubt I will be "chastised" for it, (although I don't drink it much at all) I find the Berri Estates red cask wine to be the best of the wines with added fruit juice, and it 649 baht for 3 L, you won't go far wrong, even if you decide that you don't like it after drinking half of it!!

As regards bottled wines, you may wish to try one that I have recently discovered at Big C and it is a "Barwang, The Wall" Cabernet Sauvignon, 2013 (Australian, from New South Wales) and it retails for about 520 baht, and it is not a bad drop. There is also a Shiraz as well. Here is the winemakers notes on it............

Vinified in a mixture of automatic static and rotary fermenters for up to a period of 6 days on skins. Here the fermentations were pumped over up to 8 times to maximise colour and flavour extraction. The must was then pressed off and wine was matured in stainless steel tanks in contact with American and French oak staves for up to nine months. Components of the wine were also matured in oak barrels for a similar period of time, before all being combined together, lightly fined, blended and filtered before bottled. Winemaker: Andrew Higgins

You will notice that it is matured in stainless steel tanks with American and French oak staves in the mix to allow for some "oakiness" (vanillin and tannin elements in particular) and I'm not sure what components of the wine were matured in barrels, but it could have been a small percentage to give the wine a little more body (or perhaps some free run juice, or even some of the final pressing??).

The use of oak staves saves the expense of maturing the wine in oak barrels, therefore allowing it to be sold a little cheaper.

[placidlake]

Not sure if this has been mentioned thus far in the tread, but the excise exemption on fruit wine and inputs for wine production is ending. It was due to be over by now but I think it's been extended until October 2016. This will mean that fruit wine will disappear from the shelves, but it shouldn't have any impact on grape wine products.