Patong is dead.

[madmitch]

Christmas is just one week away, a time when hotels and guesthouses in the past have expected full occupancy, or pretty close to it.

 

I took a look at Booking.com, a site which tells you the percentage of their rooms booked during a particular period. Before anyone states that it's just one website, please remember that it is the largest online hotel booking agent and most hotels use software which allocates rooms across all websites, including their own in-house sites, so availability is pretty standard across all of them.

 

The figures tell a story and proves that the title of this thread is absolutely correct.

 

Looking at a two night stay from 24th to 26th December, Patong has a staggeringly low figure of just 36% of available hotel rooms sold during that time! Just over one third. 

 

Other Phuket areas are as follows:

 

Kata 47%

Karon 60%

Kamala 63%

Bangtao 68%, showing that even the upmarket Laguna resorts still have Christmas availability

 

Just for interest I looked up some other areas in Thailand to find that it's not just Phuket:

 

Khao Lak 31%

Ao Nang 43%

Hua Hin 44%

Pattaya 52%

Chiang Mai 52%

Koh Samui 58%

 

Of course there will be late bookings but there will also be cancellations.  In my view these figures are much more telling than the garbage spurted out by the TAT and various other tourist authorities.

 

[KarenBravo]

Another startling fact from those figures is that Patong is now the least popular west-coast destination of Phuket.

Used to be Patong was the busiest; everywhere was full.

[madmax2]

Other tourist destinations are opening up Cambodia and Vietnam as examples and tour agents in Australia anyway are now promoting  them

Better deals and prices at newer destination with all the same attractions especially Vietnam which is very popular as a Aussie holiday destination now

 

Tourists from Australia anyway prefer to go to new destinations for their holidays a instead of returning to the same place every year where prices just keep going up every time they visit and people are not as friendly anymore and treat you like a ATM card

 

Expect it to get worse before it gets better, learn to adapt to cater for the tourists who are arriving

I know of a accommodation and restaurant business that has always been popular with tourists and expats who's business is down 70% for this time of year and is not getting the bookings he usually gets 

[madmitch]

1 hour ago, KarenBravo said:

Another startling fact from those figures is that Patong is now the least popular west-coast destination of Phuket.

Used to be Patong was the busiest; everywhere was full.

Patong still is the busiest place by far but these figures indicate the folly of creating a vast oversupply of rooms there. All those new places that sprung up on the "new" road are simply superfluous and have all but killed the guesthouses on Nanai at the same time. 

[Old Croc]

2 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Another startling fact from those figures is that Patong is now the least popular west-coast destination of Phuket.

Used to be Patong was the busiest; everywhere was full.

I left it late and couldn't get a plane nor room booking at Xmas 2004. I always stayed on, or near, the beach in those days.

[xylophone]

2 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Another startling fact from those figures is that Patong is now the least popular west-coast destination of Phuket.

Used to be Patong was the busiest; everywhere was full.

 

This from the NZ Herald yesterday and Phuket doesn't get a mention.......

"More than 300,000 New Zealanders are searching for a lengthy 28-day holiday this Christmas with 45 per cent headed to Asia, according to figures from Cheapflights.co.nz.

Six of the top 10 destinations this period are in the Asia-Pacific region, including Bali, Delhi, Manila, Bangkok, Nadi and Mumbai".

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Just now, madmitch said:

Christmas is just one week away, a time when hotels and guesthouses in the past have expected full occupancy, or pretty close to it.

 

I took a look at Booking.com, a site which tells you the percentage of their rooms booked during a particular period. Before anyone states that it's just one website, please remember that it is the largest online hotel booking agent and most hotels use software which allocates rooms across all websites, including their own in-house sites, so availability is pretty standard across all of them.

 

The figures tell a story and proves that the title of this thread is absolutely correct.

 

Looking at a two night stay from 24th to 26th December, Patong has a staggeringly low figure of just 36% of available hotel rooms sold during that time! Just over one third. 

 

Other Phuket areas are as follows:

 

Kata 47%

Karon 60%

Kamala 63%

Bangtao 68%, showing that even the upmarket Laguna resorts still have Christmas availability

 

Just for interest I looked up some other areas in Thailand to find that it's not just Phuket:

 

Khao Lak 31%

Ao Nang 43%

Hua Hin 44%

Pattaya 52%

Chiang Mai 52%

Koh Samui 58%

 

Of course there will be late bookings but there will also be cancellations.  In my view these figures are much more telling than the garbage spurted out by the TAT and various other tourist authorities.

 

 

After speaking with my Thai friends here in Phang Nga business in the Khao Lak strip is down around 30-40 percent on last year.  This is due to 2 main factors.  This area relies on Scandies and Euro families and their numbers are way down.  And secondly, many of the taxi drivers and business owners from Patong and Phuket, who relied on western tourists and not Chinese, and who were slowly going broke, have relocated to open their restaurants and massage shops in and around Khao lak.  Thus there is now many more Thais here chasing the shrinking pool of Scandie and Euro customers.

 

The Army arrived here a few months back and cleared the massage ladies and one or two restaurants off the beach.  I knew many of these ladies and they were just regular local hard working folk.  One of these ladies lost her house and her two kids in the Tsunami.  She was in her house holding on to the kids and the water just washed them away.  She started again with another two kids (in her middle age) and massaged during the day on the beach and then cut rubber at night up in the mountains (7 days a week) to make ends meet and try to save for a new house.

 

The Army made her take her massage bed off the beach.  And the rubber market also crashed, so no night work, so now the only work she has is some occassional fill in work in a spa at a hotel.  They wont offer her full time because she is too old they say.

 

Something has got to give if the average hardworking Thai, who hasn't borrowed for a car or Iphone, can't put food on the table to feed her kids.

[SooKee]

21 hours ago, xylophone said:

Will be interesting to hear where you end up??

 

Will pm you in a day or so, don't forget to check

[Lashay]

On 12/18/2016 at 10:03 AM, KarenBravo said:

Another startling fact from those figures is that Patong is now the least popular west-coast destination of Phuket.

Used to be Patong was the busiest; everywhere was full.

While not arguing the figures, you are drawing the wrong conclusion, a town with 10 hotels at 100% occupancy is not necessarily more popular than one with 500 hotels at 40% occupancy.

 

Also you have to factor in the amount of new hotels (from small guesthouses to large all inclusive) that have opened over the last 5-10 years. The availability is far outgrowing demand.

 

From what i am seeing on the ground at the moment, from Nov to now things are way down for most smaller businesses after a low season which many of the more established reported as half decent (for low season).

 

Due to timing i think the recent Royal death followed by many news reports saying that Thailand was effectively "closed to partying" for a year is having an knock on effect. Add that to the clamp down on Chinese zero baht tours and even the larger places are suffering as well. On top of those domestic issues add in things like Brexit, weak pound and Aussie dollar, still stagnant world economy and soon Trump and picture looks even bleaker

 

While i am seeing quite a lot of tourists around, they generally seem to be the younger, cheaper types doing a multi stop holiday, not the old here for 2 weeks  bigger spenders

 

The hordes normally arrive in 4-5 days, be interesting to see what happens

[Bulldozer Dawn]

17 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

Another startling fact from those figures is that Patong is now the least popular west-coast destination of Phuket.

Used to be Patong was the busiest; everywhere was full.

 

Or perhaps it reflects the comprehensive islamization of Patong.  The North African and Kuwait hiphopslims, Saudis and Indians, and the other detritus layer tourists that now make up the bulk of visitors Patong usually stay 4 (or more) to a room.  This would explain why there is still a lot of pedestrian traffic along Bangla, but the room occupancy rates are way down.

 

If, like me, you have witnessed a group of 5 Morocans trying to pay a single barfine for a girl to go back to a room with them, you will realise that, in additional to Patong occupancy rates, ladydrink sales must be equally lack lustre as well.

 

I fear the girls are doing it far tougher than the hoteliers.  Mohamed don't pay for any sick buffaloes.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Bulldozer Dawn

[Bulldozer Dawn]

19 hours ago, madmitch said:

Christmas is just one week away, a time when hotels and guesthouses in the past have expected full occupancy, or pretty close to it.

 

I took a look at Booking.com, a site which tells you the percentage of their rooms booked during a particular period. Before anyone states that it's just one website, please remember that it is the largest online hotel booking agent and most hotels use software which allocates rooms across all websites, including their own in-house sites, so availability is pretty standard across all of them.

 

The figures tell a story and proves that the title of this thread is absolutely correct.

 

Looking at a two night stay from 24th to 26th December, Patong has a staggeringly low figure of just 36% of available hotel rooms sold during that time! Just over one third. 

 

Other Phuket areas are as follows:

 

Kata 47%

Karon 60%

Kamala 63%

Bangtao 68%, showing that even the upmarket Laguna resorts still have Christmas availability

 

Just for interest I looked up some other areas in Thailand to find that it's not just Phuket:

 

Khao Lak 31%

Ao Nang 43%

Hua Hin 44%

Pattaya 52%

Chiang Mai 52%

Koh Samui 58%

 

Of course there will be late bookings but there will also be cancellations.  In my view these figures are much more telling than the garbage spurted out by the TAT and various other tourist authorities.

 

 

Of course it would also be useful to know if these percentages are MEAN, MEDIAN or MODE values.  It could be entirely possible that three or four of the large resorts in say Bang Tao and Karon are running at 100% (chocked full of prawn shovelling chinese bus tourists or Indian wedding parties) while all of the remaining hotels in that area are actually empty.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Bulldozer Dawn

[xylophone]

14 hours ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

If, like me, you have witnessed a group of 5 Morocans trying to pay a single barfine for a girl to go back to a room with them, you will realise that, in additional to Patong occupancy rates, ladydrink sales must be equally lack lustre as well.

 

Agree and have witnessed this on a few occasions, but with those from India or Pakistan and one rather gross "ladyboy" accepted 1000 baht to go with three of them as times were tough, business-wise!

 

A few girls I know have said that they are often offered 500 baht by these types trawling the bars just before they are about to close.

 

But we shouldn't worry as it is all part of the TAT plan to encourage high end tourists by offering top class infrastructure, safe transport, a corruption free environment and a world class experience.....yeah right!

[xylophone]

On 12/18/2016 at 11:20 AM, madmitch said:

Patong still is the busiest place by far but these figures indicate the folly of creating a vast oversupply of rooms there. All those new places that sprung up on the "new" road are simply superfluous and have all but killed the guesthouses on Nanai at the same time. 

 

Your post sprang to mind whilst I was travelling around Patong over the past couple of days, because I noticed that at least three "hotels" on that "new road" were undergoing some sort of renovation, and on one of them it looks like the renovation has stalled because I can't see any progress?

 

Not only that, what can easily be seen is the quality of some of the buildings which have gone up and this is easily noticeable on some of these places just a few metres north of Banzaan market, because the paint on the buildings has already started to fade and flake and they look about 20 years old, rather than the few years which they really are.

 

And as you have said, the oversupply is killing guesthouses and the like, and this is also very noticeable on Nanai Road because when could you ever get a room for 600 baht in the high season in the past?

 

The same goes with the bars on Nanai, which I mentioned in a previous post, because they have to be struggling big time.

 

Getting back to the good old Bangla Road, well I was out again on Christmas Eve and not only was my usual Italian restaurant fairly empty (as were most of the others nearby) but many of the bars were still struggling despite the fact that just occasionally they would have a quick influx of punters.

 

Some of the girls in one Soi were just so desperate for business that I heard a few of them truly "pleading" for passing farangs to come in and buy them a drink. Sure enough us farangs have always been harangued with this sort of behaviour, but in the past there has always been a fun aspect to it, however now I sensed desperation and it wasn't pleasant.

 

Two bar owner friends in one Soi said that although business had picked up a little on this particular evening, overall it had been bad for some time now, with one saying that he had experienced better patronage in other low seasons.

 

As at 1:30 a.m. there were queues of young folk outside of Illuzion and Tiger Disco as well as Seduction, and although a couple of the bars I had been in had their fair share of the younger set, mainly because there were live bands in them, the mainstay of the old beer bars, the older expat mongerer, have become a dying breed.

[Bulldozer Dawn]

I spoke with the foreign owner of a big restaurant in Khao Lak on Christmas eve.  I asked if he was booked out for Christmas day.  He told me no bookings...not one...

 

He also told me that he has never seen it this quiet and at present he is not even covering rent despite opening 7 days a week from 10am to midnight.

[simon43]

I'm happy to be out of the tourism business in Phuket.

 

On Xmas Day, my 'sensible' ex-wife's little hotel was fully-booked, but the room-rate was only 50% of what she was able to charge a few years ago.

 

That same day, my crazy ex-wife's hotel had just 1 booking at a low season rate, and he asked for a refund next day!

[xylophone]

Whilst just about all of the businesses I know are struggling because of the lack of people and spend, I can't see for the life of me why the traffic is so bad – – well let me rephrase that a little; the traffic is so bad because of the stupid one-way system, the poor condition of the roads, the park anywhere attitude of taxis, tuk tuks and delivery vans, and the everyday plonker who decides to park two abreast to go into a shop for something or another.........oh and the open back trucks with three or four muay Thai boxers in them crawling along shouting out their usual, "toniiiight, toniiiight.....twaddle"

 

Just yesterday at around 6 p.m. I tried to get onto the Beach Road from the South end of Patong and the traffic was solid right the way up from the beach Road, at right angles until it reached the Honda motorcycle dealer and nothing seemed to be moving. I turned my bike round and decided to head down the new road and that was also at a standstill!

 

Gave up on my little sortie and headed back to my apartment.

 

Today I caught up with a Thai lady I have known for many years and she is the manager for a medium-sized hotel/guesthouse on the new road and in the past they would do very well catering mainly for the Chinese market because one of the owners was Chinese Thai, however that's not the case now and she was lamenting the fact that they had a 50% occupancy rate or less and that had been the case for most of the past couple of months, when they were rather counting on a good high season.

 

As another sign of the falling occupancy, she manages 35 scooters for hire and in the past the majority of these have been rented out on a regular basis, however at the moment only five are rented out.

 

It's a sorry state of affairs when a holiday/party town which is having quite possibly its poorest season for many years, if not ever (relatively speaking) can't even handle this reduced amount of traffic.

 

Town planners step forward and apologise please – – oh I forgot, there aren't any!

Edited December 27, 2016 by xylophone
speller

[simon43]

 she was lamenting the fact that they had a 50% occupancy rate or less and that had been the case for most of the past couple of months, ...

 

Is that as a result of the clampdown on zero-baht tourists? No doubt she was getting useful income from these Chinese tourists who according to the official line, don't spend 1 baht.

[LivinginKata]

1 hour ago, simon43 said:

Is that as a result of the clampdown on zero-baht tourists? No doubt she was getting useful income from these Chinese tourists who according to the official line, don't spend 1 baht.

 

The Chinese spend plenty of Baht in 7-11s etc plus in Big C super stores.  But the bulk of the tour money does not leave China, all the flight, hotel, and travel is paid in advance. And if these China controled Thai companies are not allowed to operate, then they are out of here.

 

It's been very noticable the lack of coaches parked outside hotels and guesthouse these past few weeks. Little bit of slack taken up by the Russain in their Pegus coaches. 

[JetsetBkk]

22 hours ago, xylophone said:

however that's not the case now and she was lamenting the fact that they had a 50% occupancy rate or less and that had been the case for most of the past couple of months, when they were rather counting on a good high season.

 

But, but... they are flooding in, aren't they?

I know it's high season now - I can hear the ambulances rushing up and down Vised road in Rawai every night.

 

 

 

 

[billythehat]

On 12/26/2016 at 10:44 AM, xylophone said:

 

Your post sprang to mind whilst I was travelling around Patong over the past couple of days, because I noticed that at least three "hotels" on that "new road" were undergoing some sort of renovation, and on one of them it looks like the renovation has stalled because I can't see any progress?

 

Not only that, what can easily be seen is the quality of some of the buildings which have gone up and this is easily noticeable on some of these places just a few metres north of Banzaan market, because the paint on the buildings has already started to fade and flake and they look about 20 years old, rather than the few years which they really are.

 

And as you have said, the oversupply is killing guesthouses and the like, and this is also very noticeable on Nanai Road because when could you ever get a room for 600 baht in the high season in the past?

 

The same goes with the bars on Nanai, which I mentioned in a previous post, because they have to be struggling big time.

 

Getting back to the good old Bangla Road, well I was out again on Christmas Eve and not only was my usual Italian restaurant fairly empty (as were most of the others nearby) but many of the bars were still struggling despite the fact that just occasionally they would have a quick influx of punters.

 

Some of the girls in one Soi were just so desperate for business that I heard a few of them truly "pleading" for passing farangs to come in and buy them a drink. Sure enough us farangs have always been harangued with this sort of behaviour, but in the past there has always been a fun aspect to it, however now I sensed desperation and it wasn't pleasant.

 

Two bar owner friends in one Soi said that although business had picked up a little on this particular evening, overall it had been bad for some time now, with one saying that he had experienced better patronage in other low seasons.

 

As at 1:30 a.m. there were queues of young folk outside of Illuzion and Tiger Disco as well as Seduction, and although a couple of the bars I had been in had their fair share of the younger set, mainly because there were live bands in them, the mainstay of the old beer bars, the older expat mongerer, have become a dying breed.

 

I’ve been kicking around here for a week now and concur with the observations in your last few posts. Never seen Patong in such bad a shape coupled with distinct change of demographic and local attitude towards tourists. Bangla would appear to be gasping its last desperate cries as the remaining classic format of beer bars struggle for the little trade available. Amongst the many and varied reasons already discussed many times here, it’s not hard to see why the bread and butter crew of old have moved on and wont be back, (there are exceptions i know; Simon the copper was chased outta Dodge). The new crew are in and I vote that the town be renamed to the “Costa del Patong” as it is so reminiscent of what became of the pleasant seaside towns of Spain all them thar years ago.

Edited December 28, 2016 by billythehat

[Bulldozer Dawn]

Just now, billythehat said:

 

I’ve been kicking around here for a week now and concur with the observations in your last few posts. Never seen Patong in such bad a shape coupled with distinct change of demographic and local attitude towards tourists. Bangla would appear to be gasping its last desperate cries as the remaining classic format of beer bars struggle for the little trade available. Amongst the many and varied reasons already discussed many times here, it’s not hard to see why the bread and butter crew of old have moved on and wont be back, (there are exceptions i know; Simon the copper was chased outta Dodge). The new crew are in and I vote that the town be renamed to the “Costa del Patong” as it is so reminiscent of what became of the pleasant seaside towns of Spain all them thar years ago.

 

My guess for the rename is:

 

Isla De Hiphopslim

[xylophone]

13 hours ago, Bulldozer Dawn said:

My guess for the rename is:

 

Isla De Hiphopslim

 

Looked on Google for Hiphopslim, but no luck...........???

[d123]

4 minutes ago, xylophone said:

 

Looked on Google for Hiphopslim, but no luck...........???

 

Hip hop slim..........???

[DrDave]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

 

Looked on Google for Hiphopslim, but no luck...........???

 

Isla de Hiphopslim....   Island of the hip hop generation.

Island/Town attracting young posers who are fans of hip hop music performed by artists/thugs of dubious real talent. 

[SooKee]

The word 'dubious' being equally replaceable with 'no'.

Edited December 29, 2016 by SooKee

[Bulldozer Dawn]

15 hours ago, DrDave said:

 

Isla de Hiphopslim....   Island of the hip hop generation.

Island/Town attracting young posers who are fans of hip hop music performed by artists/thugs of dubious real talent. 

 

You guys aren't even close.

 

Hiphopslim is my term.  I coined it myself.  That is why you can't find it on Google. 

 

Hiphopslim (.noun)

1. A young muslim man wearing no shirt, aviator sunglasses, and a flat brimmed baseball cap.

 

Usage

1. Hiphopslims from North African often showed up in Phuket during high season.

2. Most hiphopslims like to rent a Honda Feroza with a loud modified exhaust.

3. Hiphopslims like to ride to Surin beach in a pack.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2016 by Bulldozer Dawn

[sebastion]

 
You guys aren't even close.
 
Hiphopslim is my term.  I coined it myself.  That is why you can't find it on Google. 
 
Hiphopslim (.noun)
1. A young muslim man wearing no shirt, aviator sunglasses, and a flat brimmed baseball cap.
 
Usage
1. Hiphopslims from North African often showed up in Phuket during high season.
2. Most hiphopslims like to rent a Honda Feroza with a loud modified exhaust.
3. Hiphopslims like to ride to Surin beach in a pack.
 
 

I went to the tiger kingdom to retrieve guests belongings left behind. There was a fight in the lobby with some shirtless north African French guys. They were refused entry due to not having tshirts on and they didn't even have one on their bikes.
They were asked to either buy a t shirt and you can enter or leave. They were spitting on staff as they left in their dog pack. Absolute filth I have ever seen.

Sent from my EVA-L19 using Tapatalk

[DrDave]

Have been seeing a lot of the type BD describes in Patong over the past couple of months. I would also add that they can't seem to converse with each other without shouting.

The southern stretch of Nanai Road seems to be turning into "Little Algiers".

[SooKee]

16 minutes ago, DrDave said:

Have been seeing a lot of the type BD describes in Patong over the past couple of months. I would also add that they can't seem to converse with each other without shouting.

The southern stretch of Nanai Road seems to be turning into "Little Algiers".

 

Longer than that for sure.  Part of the catalogue of reasons I bailed on Phuket.  People often criticise the Russians and Chinese for lack of manners but by and large, aside from a yobby minority present in ANY nationality, they rarely seem to demonstrate an underlying aggression that these types seem to strut around with, similar to the way they behave in France.  Their poor bike riding skills match, or even exceed,  those of the Chinese at times, coupled with a high degree of reckless stupidity makes them no. 2 on the 'road give a wide-berth to  / avoid' list.  

 

I don't condone wanton violence at any time but it's a shame the bunch at Tiger Kingdom weren't performing in front of the tout / tuk tuk driver crowd.  I guess it'd have ended less well for them had they been.

 

BD missed one under usage though:

 

4) Hiphoplims have a frequent need to wear sunglasses in nightclubs (in the 'nob-esque' style) despite them being unlit and virtually pitch-black inside.

Edited December 31, 2016 by SooKee

[NamKangMan]

As another year comes to pass on Phuket, I remember the comments of members who would ridicule those who would say, "They are killing the golden goose" and many other similar comments. 

 

I ask, where are these members now, and what argument could they possibly mount against overwhelming evidence that Phuket has changed dramatically over the last 12 months. 

 

The Thai military has been in control of the country for well over 2 years, yet, the transport mafia on Phuket continue to destroy the tourism industry here, along with failing infrastructure, sewage freely flowing into the beach waters along the coast, a sharp rise in the crime rate - particularly involving violence and firearms, and a steady rise in prices which continues to make Phuket uncompetitive as a holiday destination.

 

I would suggest, it is now undeniable that Phuket is dying. 

 

"Pirate Island" as it is know in many expat circles, has robbed, raped and pillaged so many over the years that western tourist are now changing course for other destinations.

 

I agree with LIK's comment that Phuket is fine for expats, because "we know the ropes" but it is a mine field for tourists, and the word has now well and truly got out.

 

So, where to for Phuket in 2017?   Sadly, I think more of the same.

 

I predicted the "Phuket Financial Crisis" sometime ago, and I believe the island is still heading in that direction.  

 

A saying that sums up the Phuket tourism industry is, "You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time" and we are clearly seeing that now with the western tourism market.  

 

As stated previously, Phuket will not change, there are just too many Thai's here that feel they are entitled to an easy tourist baht, however, it's not difficult to notice that tourism has changed around Phuket's lack of change, and it hasn't been for the better. 

 

So, Happy New Year to those holding back Phuket's progress, for their own financial gain, and Good Luck for 2017 - you are going to need it.   

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by NamKangMan