Advice getting started on a family house

[PattayaPhom]

This has to be one of the best threads I've read with fantastic useful input from everyone. Eco friendly company is Smarthome run by an English guy Danny, you can Google for details

[pattayacube]

I expect that single storey would be more expensive, because the total roof area would be much larger, plus lots more foundations to lay.

Not so, actually...All the extra formwork, steel, concrete and time required for the framing, floor and staircase in 2-storey actually makes it more expensive per sqm.

No, price by square meter built is nearly the same for one or two floor is roof is standard metal structure and cpac tiles.

Many contractors don't think that a concrete beam belt under the roof is necessary, if you don't do this beam one floor can be a little bit cheaper.

[ICECOOL]

I am building outside Hia Hin on flat land near a stream. U shaped house will probably work best so pool is shaded most of day or too hot

Firstly I built land up 2.5 m for security view and breeze which we get almost every day (It needs to settle for a year unless you get it compressed. Also I had 4mtr concrete piers hammered in 1mtr into ground before foundations built.

I am using superblocks for walls. The thickest I can buy. They are light and easily cut and will render (54baht per block) 60cm x 20cm high x 20cm thick so super quick to build

Roof is Bluescope Zacs which are made to measure in lots of colours and has insulation glued to underside (165baht a linear mtr). I have made it low profile (15 degree) in case I want to go to solar later

I am having high ceilings (3mtr) and using breezeway (louver widows) both at ground and high up from http://www.thaiaust.com/ which have insect screens on outside. Go to local Thaiwatsuda.

Sliding doors are being made locally with insect screens outside

Orient your house so outdoor areas are shaded most of the day.

Used an architect who was basically useless with no original ideas but drawn in Thai and English

Good luck...can pm me if you ant more detail

[Lobber]

Agree with advice on sun angles etc.

There are some good programs available that allow you to walk through your plans and predict sun angles and shadows at any time of the year.

I would start from there: only other advice is that you make a contract wherein you buy and pay for all materials directly, and watch the bodgers every minute of the day, particularly, be there the day they pour the footings, I repeat........ BE THERE THE DAY THEY POUR THE FOOTINGS!

Also, check water pipes if under floor: I mean challenge the bodgers and the head bodger if not convinced

BTW

Bodgers repairing cracks due to subsidence as we speak, because I wasn't there to inspect the footings 8 years ago...

The building company was called... Bodgit 'n' Scaper Ltd.

[khunPer]

I build a house about 5-6 years ago. If it can help in reply to your questions, here are some of the things I did:

1. Best use of sun etc.

Solar panel for hot water seem to pay off. Think price is close to what I paid, around 40,000 baht for a solar panel with 200-liter hot-water tank; can be extremely hot during days with lots of sun. If you can place the solar panel low, you don’t need a pump; if you have the solar panel on roof, you may need circulation pump that can be controlled by a daylight switch (i.e. off when dark or even very cloudy) and a timer switch, if constant running pump the water may be boiling hot. A timer also saves main power, if only operation 15 or 30 minutes an hour – can just be a simple mechanical timer.

Solar panel for electricity has to be calculated very well, may not (yet) pay off as investment.

2. Insulation

Use so-called comfort-blocks or Q-blocks from Cement Thai (HomeMart), that’s aerated concrete blocks (original brand name: Gasbeton), see Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclaved_aerated_concrete.

That’s a fairly new product in many countries and has only been in Thailand some 10 years – don’t know where you originate from, but I’m from Scandinavia, so “Gasbeton” is considered an old standard product (invented in the 1920’ies) used almost everywhere.

Either single- or double wall saves on aircon and also gives an almost constant indoor temperature. I made double walls (to avoid visible posts) and Q-block walls for all aircon-rooms, and wall exposed to sun heating. You can even fill the space between the two walls with mineral wool (Rockwoll), but that may be overdoing it. Q-block costs 3 to 4 times more than the cheapest building blocks, but I think it’s worth the investment. Furthermore very easy to work with and later install things on (plug and screw), as they are solid.

Top floor ceilings, exposed to heat from sun – or ceilings under a balcony or terrace – there it’s worth placing some insulation on top of the ceiling gypsum board; just a reflecting aluminum-foil can do wonder, and you can also but several types of double foils filled with about 50mm mineral wool between the foils.

3. Airflow

Airflow is healthy – also for construction and important under ceiling – but airflow should be possible to stop in rooms with aircon, when aircon is in use. Depending on location and architecture, often windows (eventually with mosquito net) and doors (folding or slide doors) can give enough airflow. In older Thai houses airflow was important, as they were not designed for modern fans and aircon – I did read a bit about the typical Thai house construction, before I designed my house here – but if you build more contemporary, then just common sense for good ventilation may do it. However in bathrooms, and other wet-rooms, airflow or ventilation is very important. I used a double-system, with both a normal ventilation grille and a grille with fan (switched on together with the light), as I did not wanted bathroom windows that could be opened (I used glass blocks for design reasons).

4. Roof that keeps the house cool

Right under the roof tiles you can place a heat reflecting aluminum foil – that makes a huge difference.

May I please suggest, that you take a talk with HomeMart Cement Thai Roof Center – you will anyway need to look for various design of tiles, or rood plates, and check price levels – they can do a complete roof-installation. It’s also good information to have when comparing quotes from other suppliers.

In my case we had already decided for a roof tile from cement Thai, and my building constructor kindly offered to put the roof tiles on for free. I wished to get price and some information about insulation from Cement Thai, and realized how much was involved in making a good roof, especially so it’s watertight. The Roof Center said, they could install all, and I realized they could even do the steel work in galvanized steel; also a new products in Thailand. I got a complete quote, including steel – very detailed as the plotted my house drawing into their computer animation, and out came a complete roof construction down to minor details. What surprised me was the installation costs – and as the galvanized steel were lighter and therefore cheaper in total than a normal steel construction, it was only a very small extra costs to have it all made be Cement Thai – even my kind building constructor would put the roof tiles up for free – and on top I would have a 5-year warranty. The latter I considered important, having a friend who recently finished building a house and now “boxing” with his constructor about the rainwater coming through the roof – he ended up with cement of his roof, cement that will end up cracking in a few years, he said. I could even imagine, if I could not find my building constructor a year later, when the roof leaks, whilst Cement Thai may still be around and me holding a written guarantee; and in real life the Cement Thai roof-salesman came himself a year later and checked that everything was Okay...

5. Style and conveniences

That I would say is a design question and what you decide for finishing and installations, i.e. floor and wall tiles, kitchen-style – Thai or European or both – and hardware etc.

I spend quite long time considering my options and compromises with budget and actual space, tried to imagine what I would be like in the house, and what we needed, and where, and so on...

And when it comes to convenience, it’s not only a question of use, but also maintenance; i.e. you are going to live in the house and maintenance becomes your problem – for the constructor or craftsman it’s a question if it works or not when he finish it, not what happens a year or five later. I say that from experience, and it may not only count for Thais, but seems often to be the case in Thailand that more installations are fixed with silicone, rather than the best solution; which can also be a kind gesture to save you money instead of buying another expensive fitting...

My experience learned me – and I looked at my few mistakes – that it’s not always and question of buying expensive brand name products; some times more common and little cheaper products are a better solution, at least in Thailand. In general don’t make anything too fancy, keep it simple – it can still look classy and nice.

Also things like the size of kitchen drain pipes and if you can clean or flush the drain is important – it’s your problem a year or two after the house is finished, and I presume no one likes to bang up cement floors in a fairly new house to fix some mistakes that could have been avoided.

If you plan to have a water tank, think of height for pressure, and eventually some circulation in the tank, to keep water clean and fresh – a small aquarium pump letting air into the water may do it (I use that together with a ceramic filter and UV light).

In general, it’s worth being an active part and if possible, check as much as possible. I had good preparation experience from reading the book “How to Buy Land and Build a House in Thailand” by Philip Bryce (Paiboon Publishing), not that all he tells about his house construction could be compared to mine, but there were many really good hints to think about and avoid mistakes.

Wish you good luck with your project...

[maderaroja]

May I have a copy of the two photos attached to your post, please?

I build a house about 5-6 years ago. If it can help in reply to your questions, here are some of the things I did:

1. Best use of sun etc.

Solar panel for hot water seem to pay off. Think price is close to what I paid, around 40,000 baht for a solar panel with 200-liter hot-water tank; can be extremely hot during days with lots of sun. If you can place the solar panel low, you don’t need a pump; if you have the solar panel on roof, you may need circulation pump that can be controlled by a daylight switch (i.e. off when dark or even very cloudy) and a timer switch, if constant running pump the water may be boiling hot. A timer also saves main power, if only operation 15 or 30 minutes an hour – can just be a simple mechanical timer.

Solar panel for electricity has to be calculated very well, may not (yet) pay off as investment.

2. Insulation

Use so-called comfort-blocks or Q-blocks from Cement Thai (HomeMart), that’s aerated concrete blocks (original brand name: Gasbeton), see Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclaved_aerated_concrete.

That’s a fairly new product in many countries and has only been in Thailand some 10 years – don’t know where you originate from, but I’m from Scandinavia, so “Gasbeton” is considered an old standard product (invented in the 1920’ies) used almost everywhere.

Either single- or double wall saves on aircon and also gives an almost constant indoor temperature. I made double walls (to avoid visible posts) and Q-block walls for all aircon-rooms, and wall exposed to sun heating. You can even fill the space between the two walls with mineral wool (Rockwoll), but that may be overdoing it. Q-block costs 3 to 4 times more than the cheapest building blocks, but I think it’s worth the investment. Furthermore very easy to work with and later install things on (plug and screw), as they are solid.

Top floor ceilings, exposed to heat from sun – or ceilings under a balcony or terrace – there it’s worth placing some insulation on top of the ceiling gypsum board; just a reflecting aluminum-foil can do wonder, and you can also but several types of double foils filled with about 50mm mineral wool between the foils.

3. Airflow

Airflow is healthy – also for construction and important under ceiling – but airflow should be possible to stop in rooms with aircon, when aircon is in use. Depending on location and architecture, often windows (eventually with mosquito net) and doors (folding or slide doors) can give enough airflow. In older Thai houses airflow was important, as they were not designed for modern fans and aircon – I did read a bit about the typical Thai house construction, before I designed my house here – but if you build more contemporary, then just common sense for good ventilation may do it. However in bathrooms, and other wet-rooms, airflow or ventilation is very important. I used a double-system, with both a normal ventilation grille and a grille with fan (switched on together with the light), as I did not wanted bathroom windows that could be opened (I used glass blocks for design reasons).

4. Roof that keeps the house cool

Right under the roof tiles you can place a heat reflecting aluminum foil – that makes a huge difference.

May I please suggest, that you take a talk with HomeMart Cement Thai Roof Center – you will anyway need to look for various design of tiles, or rood plates, and check price levels – they can do a complete roof-installation. It’s also good information to have when comparing quotes from other suppliers.

In my case we had already decided for a roof tile from cement Thai, and my building constructor kindly offered to put the roof tiles on for free. I wished to get price and some information about insulation from Cement Thai, and realized how much was involved in making a good roof, especially so it’s watertight. The Roof Center said, they could install all, and I realized they could even do the steel work in galvanized steel; also a new products in Thailand. I got a complete quote, including steel – very detailed as the plotted my house drawing into their computer animation, and out came a complete roof construction down to minor details. What surprised me was the installation costs – and as the galvanized steel were lighter and therefore cheaper in total than a normal steel construction, it was only a very small extra costs to have it all made be Cement Thai – even my kind building constructor would put the roof tiles up for free – and on top I would have a 5-year warranty. The latter I considered important, having a friend who recently finished building a house and now “boxing” with his constructor about the rainwater coming through the roof – he ended up with cement of his roof, cement that will end up cracking in a few years, he said. I could even imagine, if I could not find my building constructor a year later, when the roof leaks, whilst Cement Thai may still be around and me holding a written guarantee; and in real life the Cement Thai roof-salesman came himself a year later and checked that everything was Okay...

5. Style and conveniences

That I would say is a design question and what you decide for finishing and installations, i.e. floor and wall tiles, kitchen-style – Thai or European or both – and hardware etc.

I spend quite long time considering my options and compromises with budget and actual space, tried to imagine what I would be like in the house, and what we needed, and where, and so on...

And when it comes to convenience, it’s not only a question of use, but also maintenance; i.e. you are going to live in the house and maintenance becomes your problem – for the constructor or craftsman it’s a question if it works or not when he finish it, not what happens a year or five later. I say that from experience, and it may not only count for Thais, but seems often to be the case in Thailand that more installations are fixed with silicone, rather than the best solution; which can also be a kind gesture to save you money instead of buying another expensive fitting...

My experience learned me – and I looked at my few mistakes – that it’s not always and question of buying expensive brand name products; some times more common and little cheaper products are a better solution, at least in Thailand. In general don’t make anything too fancy, keep it simple – it can still look classy and nice.

Also things like the size of kitchen drain pipes and if you can clean or flush the drain is important – it’s your problem a year or two after the house is finished, and I presume no one likes to bang up cement floors in a fairly new house to fix some mistakes that could have been avoided.

If you plan to have a water tank, think of height for pressure, and eventually some circulation in the tank, to keep water clean and fresh – a small aquarium pump letting air into the water may do it (I use that together with a ceramic filter and UV light).

In general, it’s worth being an active part and if possible, check as much as possible. I had good preparation experience from reading the book “How to Buy Land and Build a House in Thailand” by Philip Bryce (Paiboon Publishing), not that all he tells about his house construction could be compared to mine, but there were many really good hints to think about and avoid mistakes.

Wish you good luck with your project...

[donmuang37]

I found a book on Amazon.com that might be interesting:

"The Green Self-Built Book: How to Design and Build Your Own Eco-Home (Sustainable Building) by Jon Broome

I just bought the Kindle version so I can check it out when I get home; however, would also buy the paper version for daily use and reference if it is good.

About trees: Don't forget to consider roots. Many fast growing trees have dangerous roots which can crack your foundation. Check with your nursery.

And our house in Don Muaeng flooded in 2011. What a pain. Be sure to get your house up a couple of meters, including parking for your vehicles! It will flood again. Not "if", but "when".

Good luck

[Liquorice]

maderaroja, on 23 Mar 2015 - 18:33, said:maderaroja, on 23 Mar 2015 - 18:33, said:

May I have a copy of the two photos attached to your post, please?

khunPer, on 23 Mar 2015 - 18:13, said:khunPer, on 23 Mar 2015 - 18:13, said:

I build a house about 5-6 years ago. If it can help in reply to your questions, here are some of the things I did:

1. Best use of sun etc.

Solar panel for hot water seem to pay off. Think price is close to what I paid, around 40,000 baht for a solar panel with 200-liter hot-water tank; can be extremely hot during days with lots of sun. If you can place the solar panel low, you don’t need a pump; if you have the solar panel on roof, you may need circulation pump that can be controlled by a daylight switch (i.e. off when dark or even very cloudy) and a timer switch, if constant running pump the water may be boiling hot. A timer also saves main power, if only operation 15 or 30 minutes an hour – can just be a simple mechanical timer.

Solar panel for electricity has to be calculated very well, may not (yet) pay off as investment.

2. Insulation

Use so-called comfort-blocks or Q-blocks from Cement Thai (HomeMart), that’s aerated concrete blocks (original brand name: Gasbeton), see Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoclaved_aerated_concrete.

That’s a fairly new product in many countries and has only been in Thailand some 10 years – don’t know where you originate from, but I’m from Scandinavia, so “Gasbeton” is considered an old standard product (invented in the 1920’ies) used almost everywhere.

Either single- or double wall saves on aircon and also gives an almost constant indoor temperature. I made double walls (to avoid visible posts) and Q-block walls for all aircon-rooms, and wall exposed to sun heating. You can even fill the space between the two walls with mineral wool (Rockwoll), but that may be overdoing it. Q-block costs 3 to 4 times more than the cheapest building blocks, but I think it’s worth the investment. Furthermore very easy to work with and later install things on (plug and screw), as they are solid.

Top floor ceilings, exposed to heat from sun – or ceilings under a balcony or terrace – there it’s worth placing some insulation on top of the ceiling gypsum board; just a reflecting aluminum-foil can do wonder, and you can also but several types of double foils filled with about 50mm mineral wool between the foils.

3. Airflow

Airflow is healthy – also for construction and important under ceiling – but airflow should be possible to stop in rooms with aircon, when aircon is in use. Depending on location and architecture, often windows (eventually with mosquito net) and doors (folding or slide doors) can give enough airflow. In older Thai houses airflow was important, as they were not designed for modern fans and aircon – I did read a bit about the typical Thai house construction, before I designed my house here – but if you build more contemporary, then just common sense for good ventilation may do it. However in bathrooms, and other wet-rooms, airflow or ventilation is very important. I used a double-system, with both a normal ventilation grille and a grille with fan (switched on together with the light), as I did not wanted bathroom windows that could be opened (I used glass blocks for design reasons).

4. Roof that keeps the house cool

Right under the roof tiles you can place a heat reflecting aluminum foil – that makes a huge difference.

May I please suggest, that you take a talk with HomeMart Cement Thai Roof Center – you will anyway need to look for various design of tiles, or rood plates, and check price levels – they can do a complete roof-installation. It’s also good information to have when comparing quotes from other suppliers.

In my case we had already decided for a roof tile from cement Thai, and my building constructor kindly offered to put the roof tiles on for free. I wished to get price and some information about insulation from Cement Thai, and realized how much was involved in making a good roof, especially so it’s watertight. The Roof Center said, they could install all, and I realized they could even do the steel work in galvanized steel; also a new products in Thailand. I got a complete quote, including steel – very detailed as the plotted my house drawing into their computer animation, and out came a complete roof construction down to minor details. What surprised me was the installation costs – and as the galvanized steel were lighter and therefore cheaper in total than a normal steel construction, it was only a very small extra costs to have it all made be Cement Thai – even my kind building constructor would put the roof tiles up for free – and on top I would have a 5-year warranty. The latter I considered important, having a friend who recently finished building a house and now “boxing” with his constructor about the rainwater coming through the roof – he ended up with cement of his roof, cement that will end up cracking in a few years, he said. I could even imagine, if I could not find my building constructor a year later, when the roof leaks, whilst Cement Thai may still be around and me holding a written guarantee; and in real life the Cement Thai roof-salesman came himself a year later and checked that everything was Okay...

5. Style and conveniences

That I would say is a design question and what you decide for finishing and installations, i.e. floor and wall tiles, kitchen-style – Thai or European or both – and hardware etc.

I spend quite long time considering my options and compromises with budget and actual space, tried to imagine what I would be like in the house, and what we needed, and where, and so on...

And when it comes to convenience, it’s not only a question of use, but also maintenance; i.e. you are going to live in the house and maintenance becomes your problem – for the constructor or craftsman it’s a question if it works or not when he finish it, not what happens a year or five later. I say that from experience, and it may not only count for Thais, but seems often to be the case in Thailand that more installations are fixed with silicone, rather than the best solution; which can also be a kind gesture to save you money instead of buying another expensive fitting...

My experience learned me – and I looked at my few mistakes – that it’s not always and question of buying expensive brand name products; some times more common and little cheaper products are a better solution, at least in Thailand. In general don’t make anything too fancy, keep it simple – it can still look classy and nice.

Also things like the size of kitchen drain pipes and if you can clean or flush the drain is important – it’s your problem a year or two after the house is finished, and I presume no one likes to bang up cement floors in a fairly new house to fix some mistakes that could have been avoided.

If you plan to have a water tank, think of height for pressure, and eventually some circulation in the tank, to keep water clean and fresh – a small aquarium pump letting air into the water may do it (I use that together with a ceramic filter and UV light).

In general, it’s worth being an active part and if possible, check as much as possible. I had good preparation experience from reading the book “How to Buy Land and Build a House in Thailand” by Philip Bryce (Paiboon Publishing), not that all he tells about his house construction could be compared to mine, but there were many really good hints to think about and avoid mistakes.

Wish you good luck with your project...

Put your cursor over one of the photos, then right click.

You'll get the option to 'save picture as'.

Save it to your pictures folder.

Repeat for other photo.

You can enlarge it from that folder or print it out.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Faz

[northernphil]

Our house was built to our spec last year. The most important thing we found was finding a reputable builder . Look for a house being built near you that you like the look of. More important than this was getting the house built non stop. a friend had a carport built and the builders came and went as they pleased. The ones that built our house worked on site for 3 months from drilling for water ,getting electricity laid on to the gate being put in and every day workers were on site.

[IMHO]

I build a house about 5-6 years ago. If it can help in reply to your questions, here are some of the things I did:

1. Best use of sun etc.

Solar panel for hot water seem to pay off. Think price is close to what I paid, around 40,000 baht for a solar panel with 200-liter hot-water tank; can be extremely hot during days with lots of sun. If you can place the solar panel low, you don’t need a pump; if you have the solar panel on roof, you may need circulation pump that can be controlled by a daylight switch (i.e. off when dark or even very cloudy) and a timer switch, if constant running pump the water may be boiling hot. A timer also saves main power, if only operation 15 or 30 minutes an hour – can just be a simple mechanical timer.

It sounds like you are describing a non-pressurized solar hot water system - i.e. one that needs it's own pump in order to give pressure above gravity feed, and to circulate water through the collectors.

Most vendors are now no longer selling this type - they have switched to only selling pressurized systems, which do not require any additional pumps, and use the Thermosiphon effect to run water through the collectors. With this system, if it's cold or cloudy out, the water simply doesn't flow through the collectors, so minimal heat is lost. Also, water does not flow through the collectors at all - they are sealed tubes transmitting the heat collected to a copper manifold that the water then flows through.

Prices are about +10-15% over what you are quoting for these systems. Most vendors also supply these systems with an auxiliary 1500w heating element, in case you have prolonged couldy/cold days. Just flip off it's breaker for the 10-11 months it's not needed - and then you have really 100% free hot water

Thermosiphon effect in action (turn down your volume!)

Edited March 23, 2015 by IMHO

[AJBangkok]

The absolute best advice I can give you is don't skimp on your architect. Really. I'm sure you can fund someone who will give you some drawings for 20-30k but unless your super lucky you'll pay for it in the end.

A good architect will provide full blue prints, electrical, plumbing, structural etc, specify the materials used for construction and visit the project to do QA throught the building period.

A bad architect will give u a set of drawings say goodbye and leaveit to the building contractor to " make it like the drawings "

Also Use led lighting and make sure the wire they use can support it. I can't believe the difference it's made to my electricity Bill.

[thousandpercent]

You don't need ThaiVisa advice, you need an experienced architect who specializes in green homes and passive cooling. The architect does not have to be Thai. You can buy plans from any country with reasonable building codes, or have an architect in another country design a home for you. Of course you'll have to feed her or him the data that she or he would normally collect herself or himself by inspecting the site- soil conditions, elevation, and so forth. But that won't be a challenge.

Of course you will have to get a local to do the other half of what an architect normally does- monitor the contractor to make sure all work is done, and done properly. I would get a foreigner who is experienced in construction to visit the site periodically for inspections, slump tests, and so on.

[piusmann]

Finished my house 1 year ago.

my points to get a cool house:

1 big overhanging roof (=no sun on the walls)

2 light gray concret tiles

3 alu foil as uv block under the tiles

4 stay cool 150mm glasswool on the top of the ceiling

5 airvents either side of the roof

6 cuts in the smartwood panels covering the ceiling of the overhanging roof (dont forget to cover those with platic nets-keeps out creapys)

7 lift the house 1.5m above ground

8 double wall q-con blocks 7.5+5.0 gap+7.5=20cm

9 good quality pvc windows (i used Hoffen)

10 keep the veranda and open aeras on the north side

11 small or no windows on the west

12 high rooms - 3m-3.20m

It worked wonders - use aircon only in the bedroom when very hot. And then switch it off after 3 hours or so

if interested i'll send you some pictures

[khunPer]

I build a house about 5-6 years ago. If it can help in reply to your questions, here are some of the things I did:

1. Best use of sun etc.

Solar panel for hot water seem to pay off. Think price is close to what I paid, around 40,000 baht for a solar panel with 200-liter hot-water tank; can be extremely hot during days with lots of sun. If you can place the solar panel low, you don’t need a pump; if you have the solar panel on roof, you may need circulation pump that can be controlled by a daylight switch (i.e. off when dark or even very cloudy) and a timer switch, if constant running pump the water may be boiling hot. A timer also saves main power, if only operation 15 or 30 minutes an hour – can just be a simple mechanical timer.

It sounds like you are describing a non-pressurized solar hot water system - i.e. one that needs it's own pump in order to give pressure above gravity feed, and to circulate water through the collectors.

Most vendors are now no longer selling this type - they have switched to only selling pressurized systems, which do not require any additional pumps, and use the Thermosiphon effect to run water through the collectors. With this system, if it's cold or cloudy out, the water simply doesn't flow through the collectors, so minimal heat is lost. Also, water does not flow through the collectors at all - they are sealed tubes transmitting the heat collected to a copper manifold that the water then flows through.

Prices are about +10-15% over what you are quoting for these systems. Most vendors also supply these systems with an auxiliary 1500w heating element, in case you have prolonged couldy/cold days. Just flip off it's breaker for the 10-11 months it's not needed - and then you have really 100% free hot water

(video omitted)

Thanks for you comments and price update.

My solar heater is a pressure system with a 200-liter tank and build-in 2kW (or 1.5kW) heather, which I did not connect. The pressure tank can be separated from the solar heater elements (“sealed tubes transmitting the heat collected to a copper manifold”), either for construction reasons (weight) or visual reasons, if you wish to place the system on for example the roof; I separated due to visual impression. The most energy saving way is to keep the pressure tank on top of the solar heater elements, so no electric power is needed; but the heater element.

The reason I do not use the electric water heater for the storage tank is, that I have small instant water heaters as boosters in each bathroom, so we don’t waste water waiting for the hot water from the central heater tank; however the small “smart-heaters” don’t switch on, when the inlet water is hot enough, and in cloudy raining season we only heat the water used, and don’t keep a 200-liter storage hot all time. It’s principle (mine) and I have not done any scientific measuring if the one way is more efficient energy saving than the other, and compared that to saving some water – might be difficult to make accurate measures and calculations, and might also end op as minor difference – and it’s also a questions of convenience, i.e. instant hot water under all conditions. Furthermore having the storage tank high up we don’t use pressure pump for water, but only natural water pressure, so even during a power cut, we will have running water, and if not hot, then normally warm enough for pleasant shower.

[LNKDES1]

I'm grateful for all the replies.

The land is in Sai Mai. It's pretty open - rice paddies surrounding it at the moment. There's quite a lot of land: 1,500 square metres.

I agree that it's probably good to take it slowly. We're keen to get started, but better to be patient now and get it right than have major headaches later.

I've spent a fair bit of time in bookshops already, but haven't seen many books that are dedicated to eco designs for houses in humid tropical climates. I'll keep looking.

Thanks so much for the info on sun angles. That was actually a question I had in the back of my mind. So if I understand it correctly, we should take care that the southern side is prepared to receive sun from September to March, and that during the rest of the year we should think about how to prepare for the morning and evening sun (from the East and West).

The land is in Sai Mai. It's pretty open - rice paddies surrounding it at the moment. There's quite a lot of land: 1,500 square metres.

Sounds as if you have about 1 rai of land.

I know the area, its up by Rangsit/LamLukKa, you are correct about it being basically paddy fields.

One area of concern you havent mentioned is drainage/flooding, that area was hit pretty bad back in 2011.

I dont know the elevation of your land, but I rai is a heck of a lot to raise, I would consider having the house elevated by at least 1 meter.

I dont know if you have included piling in your budget, depending on design, you can easily add at least another 200k++ baht to the cost.

[LNKDES1]

I'm grateful for all the replies.

The land is in Sai Mai. It's pretty open - rice paddies surrounding it at the moment. There's quite a lot of land: 1,500 square metres.

I agree that it's probably good to take it slowly. We're keen to get started, but better to be patient now and get it right than have major headaches later.

I've spent a fair bit of time in bookshops already, but haven't seen many books that are dedicated to eco designs for houses in humid tropical climates. I'll keep looking.

Thanks so much for the info on sun angles. That was actually a question I had in the back of my mind. So if I understand it correctly, we should take care that the southern side is prepared to receive sun from September to March, and that during the rest of the year we should think about how to prepare for the morning and evening sun (from the East and West).

The land is in Sai Mai. It's pretty open - rice paddies surrounding it at the moment. There's quite a lot of land: 1,500 square metres.

Sounds as if you have about 1 rai of land.

I know the area, its up by Rangsit/LamLukKa, you are correct about it being basically paddy fields.

One area of concern you havent mentioned is drainage/flooding, that area was hit pretty bad back in 2011.

I dont know the elevation of your land, but I rai is a heck of a lot to raise, I would consider having the house elevated by at least 1 meter.

I dont know if you have included piling in your budget, depending on design, you can easily add at least another 200k++ baht to the cost.

If you're going to raise the level of your home, for sure have the fill dirt compacted. I see it here in Kanchanaburi daily. They'll fill up a bog or rice paddy, and start building on it. The land will settle over time & you'll be left with crooked/cracked walls, and any walkways up next to your home will pull away (as they don't generally tie them to the footings with rebar).

Edited March 23, 2015 by LNKDES1

[KhnomKhnom]

I would not build or have built a house in Thailand. I am too old to do the work myself. I am very sure I could never assemble the team of Thai needed to build.

I know if I hired people to build it, I would either..........

-be on site all the time, running people crazy and being unable to correct all of the flaws that are being built in or

-never go to the site and just live with the mess that was done.

If somehow you could hire the team that builds for LAND AND HOUSES company, ok, maybe will be ok, but.............

I could not bear the strain.

[Anon999]

First of all obtain a copy of Building Construction Illustrated by Francis Ching ISBN 0-471-35898-3. It is also available in Thai for you to show the builder what is needed.

Find a builder who is a native English speaker or has a very good grasp of English.

Don't rely on Thai architects to design your house, it will still be a Thai house come what may. Do the layout yourself, borrow ideas from houses in your home country and make sure it is aligned East West, faces South or North as the West wall will be the hottest. You can build the 'garage at that end to act as a heat sink. Use aerated concrete blocks throughout to reduce the heat.

There are lightweight galvanised steel rafters available from some companies for the roof. Designed from the plans and constructed on site. No welding and painting involved. Insulate under the tiles using the aluminium foil roll and have a 'dry' roof system with perforated soffits, no plaster used and with 6" insulation on top of the ceiling.

Double glazing will also help to keep the inside cooler but it's expensive here.

You'll probably need to act as Project Manager unless you're very lucky with the builder. Not to mention having to teach the workers how to fit things and use tools as well!!

If 3.5 million is just for the eco house then it should be possible, including fixtures and fittings. Quality always costs more!

Been there and done it.

If you want more info PM me.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Anon999

[IMHO]

I expect that single storey would be more expensive, because the total roof area would be much larger, plus lots more foundations to lay.

Not so, actually...All the extra formwork, steel, concrete and time required for the framing, floor and staircase in 2-storey actually makes it more expensive per sqm.

No, price by square meter built is nearly the same for one or two floor is roof is standard metal structure and cpac tiles.

Many contractors don't think that a concrete beam belt under the roof is necessary, if you don't do this beam one floor can be a little bit cheaper.

I can categorically state that building floor #2 costs significantly more than building floor #1 - for the reasons I've already stated... All the extra supports and forms for things like beams, exterior & bathroom slabs (which don't use precast planks), and the staircase itself (which uses the same amount of rebar and concrete as a 1M+ wide beam would) are costs single story construction simply doesn't have.

Some of that is offset by the fact the house still only needs one roof, but that can't offset all of it

As for a top ring beam for the roof - that's actually decided by an engineer. If the roof design is simple enough that it can be supported by the posts, a ring beam sometimes just isn't necessary. This is a goal many architects work towards - to reduce costs - which is why ring beams are needed less often than more.

Edited March 24, 2015 by IMHO

[steve187]

Have you considered a Thai style house raised a couple meters on piles? I lived in one in Pattaya and it was very comfortable. The raised design gets you above the floods and also gives you a large shaded area underneath which can be used for bbq's etc. The raised design also gets you somewhat above the mosquitoes. A wooden floor will also hold less heat then a concrete pad and cool quicker at night.

Yes, we definitely considered that. I'm still open to the idea. Most of the houses in the surrounding area are raised either a few inches or a couple of metres off the ground. You've spelled out some of the advantages there. Are there many disadvantages - other than the inconvenience of having to walk up stairs every time you move in/out of the house? That's fine when you're young and healthy, but when we get older, it could make life difficult.

put in a nice long ramp, will also be good for getting motor bike up,

[kitjohnson]

I'm blown away by the response on this thread. Three cheers to everyone.

It's going to take me some time to digest it all, but I will.

[mike324]

Trees and insulation will go a long way. Be sure to incorporate solar panels, they are cheap enough to install and should pay back in less than 10 years.

Houses will always be hot and humid no matter how much shade or insulation you have, best way is to have a breeze via a fan or water cool air system.

Plant trees with large leaves, avoid the ones with tiny leaves or you will spend each morning raking up bagfuls of leaves.

Pay more and use quality material for all parts, electric sockets, bathroom fixtures, doors and frames, etc Try to stick with the european brands as they tend to last a little longer, even though a lot of it are made in Thailand nowadays.

Your house will start to fall apart after 3-5 years if you go the cheap route which is what most contractors do / use.

Go shop your own stuff with the contractor so you know what options are out there and know the costs of things so you won't be ripped off as well.

I highly recommend a RO water system for the entire house, I installed one and use it for the entire house including showers. Let me tell you, you will never have to worry about water marks, saves a lot of time cleaning, makes your bathroom and kitchen look clean with minimum cleaning. Plus its healthy and good for you, but the downside is that it may be a bit expensive for a system that can produce for the entire house, most only use it for the kitchen. Personally its one of the money well spent and splurge areas.

[rotary]

The simple things like facing the house in the right direction do not really cost anything. When you start talking about insulation, double pane windows, etc it might be a good idea to see what these extras cost then compare electric bill cost with and without.

I know it is not a "green opinion" but why spend B500,000 to save B500 per month. I am not saying that's the figures at all but do some comparison on real cost vs savings before proceeding.

[shadh]

Lot's of great info here...!

I'm in the process of renovating my house, 27 years old.

Does anyone know what I should be paying for roofing sq mtr? I'm going to use SCG Ayara tiles...

Tks

[kitjohnson]

I haven't forgotten this thread. It's still a testament to the awesome helpfulness of people on the Internet.

In the last few months we (my wife and I) have done a fair amount of fact-finding. Or so we hope. Here's what we've found:

1. Several companies will just build your house for you. Look at the brochure, pick the one you want, pay them about 17,000 per square metre (well, this is the figure we have for the house we are looking at), sign a contract, and move in a year later. Seems hassle-free, but we're struggling to accept that price given the fact that the end-result is a house that looks like any other new-build house these days. The designs are very pedestrian, and they don't even have any one-storey options. This price is also their medium-level spec, and I think there are several ways I would like to upgrade it (double walls, for example). This could come in incredibly expensive.

2. We are lucky to have found a trusted guy (well, we hope) who is a contractor. He will do it for 10,000 or less per square metre. We have done a lot of asking around and it seems no-one would recommend the person that built their own house, until we met this guy. The downside is that I get the feeling his team (Cambodian immigrants) won't pay enough atention to detail. Just the feeling I get from chatting to him. He doesn't seem to have specialist plumbers, just one general do-it-all team. Could cause problems down the road.

3. We have found another person who again came recommended: an architect/contractor all-in-one. His first-draft design (a one-storey house) was absolutely brilliant, but he's asking for a lot for doing the plan: 250,000 baht. That would include all drawings, 3D, structural stuff, and he would get the design approved at the district office. He's worked on many large projects (e.g. Sansiri developments) and seems totally professional. He's said that 15,000 per square meter would be do-able with the team he works with. Of course the actuall cost depends on specifics that we haven't worked through yet.

Before we make a decision I wanted to run some things by the knowledgeable people here.

Roof. The architect knows that we are trying to save money and he suggested a flat roof. It also fits in with the design ideas that we like. (You can see what we showed him on our Pinterest board.) He says that it will function approximately as well as a standard pitched roof in terms of keeping the house cool. I was surprised by that. However not only is it cheaper but it could make it easier to install, one day, solar. (I asked a solar company and they said maximum pitch should be about 30 degrees.) I would like to know what people's experience/knowledge of flat roofs is for a Thai house.

Glass. As you can see on our design inspiration board, we like very open-plan designs with lots of glass. The land is surrounded by rice fields, we'll have trees: basically, a nice view. We also like the spaciousness that you get from having glass walls. His design really does look brilliant. However I'm concerned that this might make for terrible insulation. On this thread several people have mentioned the benefits of having aerated concrete blocks, even double layers with insulation, to protect against the sun and to insulate rooms when air conditioning is turned on. My feeling is that glass cannot compete with that. Even though we will get trees up, and even though the roof overhang of this one-storey design will do some shading.

I've just attached my own draft sketch which shows the basic layout of the house (which doesn't do any justice to what he came up with!). The floor area is approximately 180 sq metres I think.

Basically my concern is that with the amount of south-facing glass (basically that whole south side is currently going to be glass) we will be living in a greenhouse. Sliding doors to the rescue? The house does seem to work well with the prevailing winds. But it's dusty out there, and if we really rely on opening up the house every day, it could make for hard work cleaning.

When it comes to air-conditioned rooms (bedrooms, office), surely the more glass there is, the more expensive they will be to keep cool?

[IMHO]

I spat coffee over my screen when I read how much you're paying for plans. WOW.

Sorry, but this next bit is going to be very blunt. You need to understand this.

The quality of the workmanship has absolutely nothing to do with how much you pay per sqm - building costs vary because of material costs, not labour.

[Crossy]

Will any of these plans adapt to your purposes Kit? http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/ they're FREE and signed off ready to build

Our home came from one that was adapted by me (under instruction from SWMBO) and is most definitely not cookie-cutter

To answer your questions:-

Lots of glass plus a flat roof = a very hot home unless you have large roof overhangs and a well insulated roof or a separate flying roof as a shade. The glass can be mitigated using one of the thermally insulating glasses (expensive) or loads of shade plants (which of course will reduce the view). Oh, and flat roofs have a nasty tendency to leak, not good in a place with tropical rains.

If you intend installing solar later, put it on the garage roof, a 6x6 double car port has room for about 5kW of solar, there's a couple of interesting solar threads over in the Electrical forum.

Why not post a couple of general views from your architects initial design for more directed comments?

EDIT If you're in Sai Mai our contractor may be of interest, we're in Chiang Rak (20 mins drive). K. Dusit is a well respected local guy with a crew of Cambodian workers and (amazingly) is still a friend, drop me a PM if you want to nip over for a natter and a beer or two.

[IMHO]

I'm going to be a little blunt again, sorry

After all the planning and forethought put into this, I'm surprised you're still lining up to make some serious mistakes:

1) All that South facing glass. Any hope you had of a cool / energy efficient house has just, literally, gone out the window.

As Crossy notes, there are some good/expensive products that will help mitigate a little of the disaster - e.g. Solartag+ glass, and double glazing - but none of them are going to fix the problem all that exposed glass area is going to create.

2) Flat roof.

Nothing guarantees a scorching hot ceiling like a small crawl space. It doesn't matter how well you implement radiant barriers and/or insulation, the heat from the roof surface will get to the ceiling.

[kitjohnson]

I spat coffee over my screen when I read how much you're paying for plans. WOW.

Sorry, but this next bit is going to be very blunt. You need to understand this.

The quality of the workmanship has absolutely nothing to do with how much you pay per sqm - building costs vary because of material costs, not labour.

Lol. Well, I thought it was steep, but well, yes. It's expensive. But we haven't agreed to anything or signed anything yet.

I actually had to read your sentence about workmanship a few times to get it. But I can see what you're saying now. Whether we go for cheaper materials or more expensive materials, the workmanship will be whatever the team we choose gives us on the day. So finding the right team is what it's about.

Will any of these plans adapt to your purposes Kit? http://www.crossy.co.uk/Thai_House_Plans/ they're FREE and signed off ready to build

Our home came from one that was adapted by me (under instruction from SWMBO) and is most definitely not cookie-cutter

To answer your questions:-

Lots of glass plus a flat roof = a very hot home unless you have large roof overhangs and a well insulated roof or a separate flying roof as a shade. The glass can be mitigated using one of the thermally insulating glasses (expensive) or loads of shade plants (which of course will reduce the view). Oh, and flat roofs have a nasty tendency to leak, not good in a place with tropical rains.

If you intend installing solar later, put it on the garage roof, a 6x6 double car port has room for about 5kW of solar, there's a couple of interesting solar threads over in the Electrical forum.

Why not post a couple of general views from your architects initial design for more directed comments?

EDIT If you're in Sai Mai our contractor may be of interest, we're in Chiang Rak (20 mins drive). K. Dusit is a well respected local guy with a crew of Cambodian workers and (amazingly) is still a friend, drop me a PM if you want to nip over for a natter and a beer or two.

Thanks for the link. I actually just went to a book store at the weekend to look at more designs specifically made for Thailand. It seems there is quite a lot of free stuff on offer, and quite a bit that is interesting. We've got a couple of books to pore over. We also got one book written in Thai specifically about eco housing.

Thanks for your comments on the roof. I hadn't thought about putting solar on the garage. That's a nice idea, and gives us more flexibility to go pitched with the house roof, especially since we're considering an extra room to attach to the garage.

I can't send any views from the architect's design because he didn't want to hand them over, understandably, since we're still at the stage of initial discussions. That's why my hand sketch was done from memory.

Thanks very much for your offer of meet-up and a potential crew of builders. That sounds great.

I'm going to be a little blunt again, sorry

After all the planning and forethought put into this, I'm surprised you're still lining up to make some serious mistakes:

1) All that South facing glass. Any hope you had of a cool / energy efficient house has just, literally, gone out the window.

As Crossy notes, there are some good/expensive products that will help mitigate a little of the disaster - e.g. Solartag+ glass, and double glazing - but none of them are going to fix the problem all that exposed glass area is going to create.

2) Flat roof.

Nothing guarantees a scorching hot ceiling like a small crawl space. It doesn't matter how well you implement radiant barriers and/or insulation, the heat from the roof surface will get to the ceiling.

IMHO, no need to apologise. I really appreciate your advice.

I suspected that the glass would be an energy disaster, and it looks like the architect has gone for form over ecological function. Perhaps I didn't stress to him enough how much I value low-energy living.

And on the flat roof, it looks like it could be the same deal.

[Crossy]

I deal with architects a lot, but on big infrastructure projects. You're right they do tend to go for form rather than function, it's the nature of the beast.

Are you building in an existing moo bahn or completely independently? That may control what your design looks like, got to be in keeping with the surroundings. We're in a fairly traditional village with many wooden homes so our design fits in quite well despite being rather larger that the nearby places.

This is our home http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/257672-finished-house-picture-views-and-gardens-welcome/?p=9595199 there's a whole thread devoted to the build http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/481794-housebuilding-thread (did we really start in 2011, time flies).