rewiring the whole house

[meatboy]

having had a few incidents lately,eg.burnt circuit breaker[loose wire conection] the same with 2 bathroom lights its time to have the whole house rewired and new sockets.its a large house 5bed,3bath.will it be a difficult job,and how difficult to find a competant sparky.we have never been happy with the fittings throughout the whole house,but the electriction has been called out many times only for him to pass the buck to a sub contract worker.

so maybe someone can recomend cable,sockets and plugs please.

it was the local electricity city that found the faults.

[Forkinhades]

You might only need a accessories change, and new DB.

I recommend schneider for your accessories.

[Forkinhades]

Where are you as well?

[meatboy]

Where are you as well?

korat.in a moo-ban.

[wayned]

Are the wires in the walls or run externally, Thai style, with the metal clips? If in the wall, are they in conduit or just secured in a channel and rendered over? Are all of the current sockets grounded, three pin?

As Forky said you might want to replace the just fixtures and the plates. Replacing all of the wire can be a big task depending how the current wiring is installed.

[meatboy]

Are the wires in the walls or run externally, Thai style, with the metal clips? If in the wall, are they in conduit or just secured in a channel and rendered over? Are all of the current sockets grounded, three pin?

As Forky said you might want to replace the just fixtures and the plates. Replacing all of the wire can be a big task depending how the current wiring is installed.

thanks wayned,

all the wires are in the walls and exsessable above the ceilings.all the sockets are 3pinned,but most if not all the plugs except for the ones i changed,cause a spark when trying to put them in.

if i remember when electrolux came to fit a breaker for the oven,behind the socket they removed it had no back plate just bare concrete,and they found NO EARTH.

i changed quite a few plugs that come already fitted those that dont fit properly in the sockets[fans ect]

i have been and had a look above the ceiling and the wiring seems to be covered.

give you one eg.when we switch off the kitchen lights at night our security lights flood lights come on outside[we have 2]

so after electric city found loose wiring into the breaker box,and i found the wires were loose in 2 of the bathroom lights i have no confidence of anything that was fitted when the house was built[2008] overhead fans we had them to fit always shake when on,i did change a lot of the round ceiling lights that take a long time to come on and its not the starters,we dont seem to be getting full power,early mornings and nights unless the moo-ban is running on low power,we do get quite a few power cuts.

cheers taffy.

[Forkinhades]

Should be easy job to replace accessories, and make sure all connections are tight.

[RichCor]

"all the wires are in the walls and exsessable above the ceilings.all the sockets are 3pinned"

3-pinned, but do they have a third dedicated ground wire running back to the CU?

"but most if not all the plugs except for the ones i changed,cause a spark when trying to put them in." ...

"i changed quite a few plugs that come already fitted those that dont fit properly in the sockets[fans ect] "

Sparking is normal on the cheaper sockets where thin/soft metals are used.

"if i remember when electrolux came to fit a breaker for the oven,behind the socket they removed it had no back plate just bare concrete,and they found NO EARTH."

The 'no earth' on a Class 1 appliance should never occur. Bare concrete should be fine, UNLESS there is the possibility of liquid/water intrusion down a wall.

"i have been and had a look above the ceiling and the wiring seems to be covered." ...

"give you one eg.when we switch off the kitchen lights at night our security lights flood lights come on outside [we have 2]"

"overhead fans we had them to fit always shake when on,i did change a lot of the round ceiling lights that take a long time to come on and its not the starters,"

"we dont seem to be getting full power,early mornings and nights unless the moo-ban is running on low power,we do get quite a few power cuts."

Fan and Light issues sound like either Low Residential Current delivery or High Resistance on a connection somewhere. I would suggest making NEW (TIGHT) CONNECTIONS on all of the wiring already in place. Start at the CU, and follow each wire, redo any wire twist connections. Replace any cheap (lose) sockets with higher-end versions. Verify actual Earth on any socket with a 3-pin appliance attached.

Also, if you have a DMM, what voltages are you reading at the sockets?

[meatboy]

"all the wires are in the walls and exsessable above the ceilings.all the sockets are 3pinned"

3-pinned, but do they have a third dedicated ground wire running back to the CU?

"but most if not all the plugs except for the ones i changed,cause a spark when trying to put them in." ...

"i changed quite a few plugs that come already fitted those that dont fit properly in the sockets[fans ect] "

Sparking is normal on the cheaper sockets where thin/soft metals are used.

"if i remember when electrolux came to fit a breaker for the oven,behind the socket they removed it had no back plate just bare concrete,and they found NO EARTH."

The 'no earth' on a Class 1 appliance should never occur. Bare concrete should be fine, UNLESS there is the possibility of liquid/water intrusion down a wall.

"i have been and had a look above the ceiling and the wiring seems to be covered." ...

"give you one eg.when we switch off the kitchen lights at night our security lights flood lights come on outside [we have 2]"

"overhead fans we had them to fit always shake when on,i did change a lot of the round ceiling lights that take a long time to come on and its not the starters,"

"we dont seem to be getting full power,early mornings and nights unless the moo-ban is running on low power,we do get quite a few power cuts."

Fan and Light issues sound like either Low Residential Current delivery or High Resistance on a connection somewhere. I would suggest making NEW (TIGHT) CONNECTIONS on all of the wiring already in place. Start at the CU, and follow each wire, redo any wire twist connections. Replace any cheap (lose) sockets with higher-end versions. Verify actual Earth on any socket with a 3-pin appliance attached.

Also, if you have a DMM, what voltages are you reading at the sockets?

thanks for that,now comes the hardest job,FINDING A GOOD SPARKY

[oztaurus]

another thing to watch for, unless you replace or at least check the connections of every wire in the house is whether that have correctly connected active to active and passive to passive throughout. One test of this is if fluoro lights seem to stay glowing and flickering after switching off. Of 5 places I have lived in Thailand, 3 of them had at least one pair reversed.

In an apartment in Koh Samui I just had all 2 pin sockets replaced and an earth connection added yesterday. I also had a few strategically placed international sockets, the universal type which take any plug, even my Aussie ones for my Belkin surge-protected computer power board.

[Forkinhades]

Yeah polarity is important, but remember with the normal thai 2 pin outlet, how can you correctly plug in every time?

[Vogele123]

Yeah polarity is important, but remember with the normal thai 2 pin outlet, how can you correctly plug in every time?

My 3 way sockets have a different sized "live" receptacle, it is a different size to the neutral. I also have a few appliances that only have a 2 pin plug, but the plug itself is fitted with different size prongs, these can only be fitted into the socket in the correct orientation (Samsung plugs are like this).

Obviously you are correct that most 2 pins can be fitted either way around, but it is interesting to see that some sockets (National) and some appliances can only go in the correct polarity.

[Liquorice]

Meatboy, having had some experience with Thai electrical installations, I can honestly tell you that you really need to do a complete rewire and upgrade the sockets switches.

They loop feed sockets and switches together, and connect air cons and showers from the tail feeds and not through the consumer unit.........not to mention earths....NOT!

The best fittings to buy in Thailand are 'Panasonic' for sockets and switches.

The method of wiring causes most problems.

My girlfriend was recently spending a lot of money renovating her house and a rewire was part of work. She asked me to look and I wish I hadn't.

The 3 wires and 1 fuse ran the whole house.........aaaaaargh!

Sockets need to wired ring main with 2.5mm 3 core cable.

Lighting circuits loop feed with 1.5mm 3 core cable

Showers up to 4.5Kw can also be wired using 2.5mm 3 core cable. (Through an isolation switch)

Air Cons with 2.5mm 3 core cable. (Through an isolation switch)

Circuits should be split onto different RCD's so you'll need to replace the old Consumer Unit.

As an example I rewired my girlfriends house as such:

New tail feeds from the meter to the Consumer Unit.

A 6mm earth cable from grounding rod to Consumer Unit.

3 x ring main circuits through 32Amp RCD's (1-Kitchen circuit. 2-Lounge & D/room circuit. 3-Bedroom circuits)

2 x loop circuits through 10Amp RCD's (1-Internal lighting circuit. 2-External Lighting circuit. 6Amp is sufficient but could only find 10Amp RCD's)

2 x Shower feeds through 32Amp RCD's and Isolation switches.

1 x Aircon feed through 32Amp RCD and Isolation switches.

1 x External socket through 20Amp RCD for Pump.

I bought a 10 way Consumer Unit so she has a spare.

Back boxes tend to be plastic so do not require earthing but the sockets and light switches should be earthed.

Total cost was around 12,000 baht for materials plus 3 days free labour from me.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Faz

[IMHO]

Yeah polarity is important, but remember with the normal thai 2 pin outlet, how can you correctly plug in every time?

Not only that, international type sockets always have to get at least some of the plug polarities wrong...

CN, AU, UK/MY/SG use the opposite polarity of USA and TH.

Edited February 4, 2015 by IMHO

[IMHO]

The best fittings to buy in Thailand are 'Panasonic' for sockets and switches.

Good post, but have to disagree with this - the Clipsal brand stuff (by Schneider) is clearly the best

Edited February 4, 2015 by IMHO

[Forkinhades]

And a point to note is that with clipsal (sneider ) with the international range the connections are different, ie live pin will be in different place, but with thai socket it is normal.

[Crossy]

NEVER, EVER, EVER put Thai outlets on a 'ring main' with a 32A breaker!!!!!!

Ring finals (the proper name) are peculiar to locations like the UK with fused plugs.

Thai plugs are unfused and rated at 16A, you will cause a fire if uncle Somchai plugs his welder in, or for that matter, if your table light on the end of 3m of 0.5mm flex gets a short in the lampholder.

Read line 1 again!

[Liquorice]

IMHO, on 04 Feb 2015 - 18:35, said:

Faz, on 04 Feb 2015 - 18:22, said:

The best fittings to buy in Thailand are 'Panasonic' for sockets and switches.

Good post, but have to disagree with this - the Clipsal brand stuff (by Schneider) is clearly the best

Personal preferences. I found 'Clipsal' to be modern looking but not hardwearing.

I got sick of replacing 'Clipsal' switches less than 2 years old.

Certainly in the UK, MK is regarded as the toughest and most hardwearing, also the dearest.

Panasonic take ring and flat pins and Thai electricians (if you can find one) will tell you they are best in reliability......only time will tell.

[Anthony5]

Never knew that polarity was an issue with AC appliances.

[Forkinhades]

NEVER, EVER, EVER put Thai outlets on a 'ring main' with a 32A breaker!!!!!!

Ring finals (the proper name) are peculiar to locations like the UK with fused plugs.

Thai plugs are unfused and rated at 16A, you will cause a fire if uncle Somchai plugs his welder in, or for that matter, if your table light on the end of 3m of 0.5mm flex gets a short in the lampholder.

Read line 1 again!

Anything over 13Amps should not be able to plug into a normal socket, but TiT.

[Liquorice]

Crossy, on 04 Feb 2015 - 18:56, said:

NEVER, EVER, EVER put Thai outlets on a 'ring main' with a 32A breaker!!!!!!

Ring finals (the proper name) are peculiar to locations like the UK with fused plugs.

Thai plugs are unfused and rated at 16A, you will cause a fire if uncle Somchai plugs his welder in, or for that matter, if your table light on the end of 3m of 0.5mm flex gets a short in the lampholder.

Read line 1 again!

I'll disagree on that Crossy.

If uncle Somchai plugs in his welder on a 16Amp circuit, I don't want to unplug everything else in the house to prevent the RCD tripping.

32Amp for 2.5mm cable is standard. The cable won't overheat.

UK standards are probably the safest in the world. IEE regs.

[Liquorice]

Faz, on 04 Feb 2015 - 19:11, said:

Crossy, on 04 Feb 2015 - 18:56, said:Crossy, on 04 Feb 2015 - 18:56, said:

NEVER, EVER, EVER put Thai outlets on a 'ring main' with a 32A breaker!!!!!!

Ring finals (the proper name) are peculiar to locations like the UK with fused plugs.

Thai plugs are unfused and rated at 16A, you will cause a fire if uncle Somchai plugs his welder in, or for that matter, if your table light on the end of 3m of 0.5mm flex gets a short in the lampholder.

Read line 1 again!

I'll disagree on that Crossy.

If uncle Somchai plugs in his welder on a 16Amp circuit, I don't want to unplug everything else in the house to prevent the RCD tripping.

32Amp for 2.5mm cable is standard. The cable won't overheat.

UK standards are probably the safest in the world. IEE regs.

I'll agree you'll probably get away with a 20Amp RCD in most cases for socket outlets.

[Liquorice]

If you purchase new cable with grey (live) and black (neutral), they tend to be the cheaper quality made in China.

Look for the brown (live) blue (neutral) cables that will usually be made to a higher standard and conform to the International colour coding.

[IMHO]

IMHO, on 04 Feb 2015 - 18:35, said:

Faz, on 04 Feb 2015 - 18:22, said:

The best fittings to buy in Thailand are 'Panasonic' for sockets and switches.

Good post, but have to disagree with this - the Clipsal brand stuff (by Schneider) is clearly the best

Personal preferences. I found 'Clipsal' to be modern looking but not hardwearing.

I got sick of replacing 'Clipsal' switches less than 2 years old.

Certainly in the UK, MK is regarded as the toughest and most hardwearing, also the dearest.

Panasonic take ring and flat pins and Thai electricians (if you can find one) will tell you they are best in reliability......only time will tell.

We have installed quite literally thousands of Clipsal sockets and switches in our housing developments (all in TH), and have never replaced any of them. Can't say the same for their weatherproof covers though

[IMHO]

If you purchase new cable with grey (live) and black (neutral), they tend to be the cheaper quality made in China.

Look for the brown (live) blue (neutral) cables that will usually be made to a higher standard and conform to the International colour coding.

Sounds like you're talking about VAF cable, which is only used for exposed runs in TH. Concealed runs use THW, which is the same price regardless of color

[Crossy]

@Faz

UK ring finals are indeed on 32A breakers, but they are rings, Thai final circuits are radials. 20A breaker maximum to protect the 16A outlets.

Thailand uses the same wiring code as the US, Black - Live, White/Grey - Neutral. Plenty of black/white cable made in Thailand.

The closest match for Thailand amongst the Western wiring regs is actually AS3000 (Oz and NZ) which share unfused plugs, radial outlet circuits and MEN connections.

[bankruatsteve]

Crossy, on 04 Feb 2015 - 18:56, said:

NEVER, EVER, EVER put Thai outlets on a 'ring main' with a 32A breaker!!!!!!

Ring finals (the proper name) are peculiar to locations like the UK with fused plugs.

Thai plugs are unfused and rated at 16A, you will cause a fire if uncle Somchai plugs his welder in, or for that matter, if your table light on the end of 3m of 0.5mm flex gets a short in the lampholder.

Read line 1 again!

I'll disagree on that Crossy.

If uncle Somchai plugs in his welder on a 16Amp circuit, I don't want to unplug everything else in the house to prevent the RCD tripping.

32Amp for 2.5mm cable is standard. The cable won't overheat.

UK standards are probably the safest in the world. IEE regs.

Not sure where ring mains got into this - but they are best left in England where they belong and no where else.

AND - the RCD is not going to trip from over-current - only ground fault. Geez.

[Anthony5]

Crossy, on 04 Feb 2015 - 18:56, said:

NEVER, EVER, EVER put Thai outlets on a 'ring main' with a 32A breaker!!!!!!

Ring finals (the proper name) are peculiar to locations like the UK with fused plugs.

Thai plugs are unfused and rated at 16A, you will cause a fire if uncle Somchai plugs his welder in, or for that matter, if your table light on the end of 3m of 0.5mm flex gets a short in the lampholder.

Read line 1 again!

I'll disagree on that Crossy.

If uncle Somchai plugs in his welder on a 16Amp circuit, I don't want to unplug everything else in the house to prevent the RCD tripping.

32Amp for 2.5mm cable is standard. The cable won't overheat.

UK standards are probably the safest in the world. IEE regs.

Not sure where ring mains got into this - but they are best left in England where they belong and no where else.

AND - the RCD is not going to trip from over-current - only ground fault. Geez.

But the MCB's do isn't it, and each individual circuit is protected with an MCB in my house.

[KhnomKhnom]

These are my suggestions all given in American terms and standards and no unexplained abbvs. nor slang.......

This answer does not try to educate you to electrician status but introduces matters that you should watch out for when having an electrician work for you.

Best for your whole house to be rewired, inside the walls where possible and surface mounting otherwise.

Of course, getting a competent electrician is the key as you know. If I were to want this, I would start at Home Pro for a package deal buying supplies from Home Pro and using their recommended electrician. The advantage can be working with an established company that you can find in several years if problems crop up and also hopefully Home Pro has a list of competent electricians. Maybe you can make a combined payment to Home Pro only.

Best to put in a new "breaker box" the metal box inside the home which receives the incoming electricity from outside and sends it on, through safety breakers (switches that automatically turn off if sensing an overload), to various circuits inside the home. You can install GFI, Ground Fault Interrupter, switch type breakers on the circuits that go to the bathrooms and to any other place where a person can touch a worn or accidental appliance, etc. and receive a shock (the GFI senses problem and auto shuts off). GFI units can also be installed individually at the sockets of potentially dangerous appliances, etc.

If you have problems of frequent low voltage which is seen by slowing fans and dimming incandescent light bulbs, etc., the big answer is to have the electric company wire to your home a "Three Phase" supply. Ask about availability and cost. This method is the most powerful effort to a solution. However, low voltage and/or too high voltage can be addressed with devices usually called "buck-boost" which help to keep the voltages even to either the whole house or specific circuits. Again, cost is a factor. If your electrician does not know about Safe-T-Cut and "buck boost," you have the wrong electrician.

Grounding....... Insist on three wires to run to all outlets and ALL other places electricity is supplied to some device like a water heater or lamp. The third wire, coded green insulation, is attached to the grounded breaker box's ground and a third wire connects to the third pin, the large round one on American plugs, on all wall sockets. Standard is a plastic coated cable including inside it three wires: one coated black, HOT, one white, Neutral, and one green, ground. There are other color standards but three wires are a must. Best is to connect the black HOT wire to the more narrower flat pin on an American socket and the Neutral wire to the slightly wider flat pin. When devices with only two pins are on their wire, from TVs to toasters and many others, without testing, you can not determine which pin goes to HOT and which to Neutral, and in normal items, it does not matter.

Grounding your strip of sockets/outlets like ones sold for computers is done only with a three wire strip which has the round pin, ground pin, American style, connected from inside the plug on the cord all the way to each round pin, ground, socket. That is the only way to obtain what most of the strips claim, many falsely--"line conditioning" or "spike protection," and the strip must also contain the devices to shunt spikes, etc., to ground. Such strips are not cheapest.

The best way of coping ...in the system described here... with devices with a two-round-pin plug on it, very common in Thailand, is to use an adapter that takes round pins IN and adapts to the three pin American sockets you had installed on/ in your walls. You can use also a strip of sockets, described just above but with only a two pin plug on the cord, where the sockets on the strip have holes that will take any common Thai plug. This is ok for, say, a two wire electric lamp--or even a TV-- with the two-round-pin plug on it. Note that this strip does not provide a ground even though there is a hole for such a pin.

My house is mostly two wire/two pin sockets. Consult your electrician to check me, but in some cases, like a refrigerator or washer that has only two pin plug, it is most safe to connect the metal case of the appliance to the third round ground pin on your sockets. The electrician will have to wire that adaption. Do not accept the false solution of connecting the green ground wire from the appliance to a screw in a concrete wall, seen often.

There are, of course, cheaper and less thorough plans to address your needs, but I guessed you a thorough person who wanted the whole system done correctly. Good Luck.

[wayned]

I'm an American, actually a licensed residential electrician - long story, and can't wait until the "sparkys" answer the above!