Chiang Mai Ram, Complete Rip Off

[uptheos]

The only friendly and respectful staff at Chiang Mai Ram are the cleaning ladies. The rest is incompetent scum.

Been there twice and the amateuristic diagnosis almost cost me my life.

2 months pain in my ass, X-ray at Chiang Mai Ram

"sir you have a broken hip"

"WHAT??"

"yes look here this is broken"

"come on I never had a broken hip"

"yes buy I see it broken before"

"I'm sure my hip was never broken before"

"then I don't know also sit, I think it broken"

I seriously worried and booked a flight to Europe for the next day, and straight on to the hospital. I got a big and dangerous abscess and got an operation the same night. Best decision in my life to NOT go to a Thai hospital but fly back home to at least being able to ask questions in my own language and receive honest answers in my own language, instead of a faint grin when a doctor does not know the answer.

My first time in Chiang Mai Ram was after food poisoning that could have been simply killed with medicines but they insisted to keep me inside as long as possible without doing anything, except from writing bills for every fart and 3 days stay. (but a great room I must say, with daily newspaper, TV, DVD player, flowers, sofa hahaha)

Later moved to Doi Saket. The nearby public hospital there is good enough for most problems, friendly staff. Not like those self-conceited egos!

What a load of rubbish that flight home two months ago was probably from a holiday.

Dr Paiboon (orthpaedics) who has been at Ram for over 20 years, is one of the most competent, nicest English speaking doctors you will ever meet and I trust him 100%. I gurantee his English is far better than many 'native speakers'. I know from personal experience that he doesn't 'sell surgery' and is conservative in his approach. What was the name of the doctor you saw.

The only problem I have with Ram now is that it reminds me of an airport. What do you think of its new ground floor design, any of the colours impress you?

[LivinLOS]

If I have a complaint its the outpatient visiting.. At other higher end private hospitals visit times are usually down to a few minutes wait.. maybe 30.. Here they dont run a scheduling system, they dont have person 1 9:00 person 2 9:15 etc they just tell everyone to come at 9 am when the doc is there 9 - 12 and you have a huge wait to see the specialist. For this money they should do better.. The outpatient waiting is slow, and thats simply down to a lack of a system.

I assume you are talking about another hospital and not Ram? The scheduling system is called an appointment and has always worked well and within a reasonable time of said appointment for the many visits I have made across various departments.

Talking about RAM and thats visits over the last 2 years seeing Orthopedic, Ophthalmic, Internal medicine, Etc etc.. The only one that operates an actual queue system instead of 'everyone come at 9 or 1 and take a card' are the dental surgeons..

They give appointments on those paper slips (and phone the day before) but as stated its not a scheduled appointment its simply the time the Doc starts work, morning or afternoon. Usually better off going in the last hour they are available as the backlog of people waiting hours has cleared.

I was there at 9am a week last Saturday and saw the Doc at about 11 or 11:30.. Sure its 'only' a couple of hours, but the fact is other private hospitals I have used here had an actual system for individual appointments.

[circusman]

I was prescribed some medicine from a Ram Dr. The cashier said 9,000 baht. I said no way. She sent me to the actual pharmacist. She gave me the name of a comparable drug that I could buy at most pharmacies. Cost only 3,000. And it cured me. How I thanked that Ram pharmacist.

[Frank James]

Just be thankful that McCormick is no longer the only option in the city.

Why are you knocking McCormick? I have always been well served there for routine outpatient services. Caring staff, good doctors, very reasonable charges for services and drugs.

[chiang mai]

There's some very very capable doctors and surgeons at RAM, I can think of three or four who are world class, Dr Patarapong, Dr Trisak, Dr Paiboon and others.

[uptheos]

I was prescribed some medicine from a Ram Dr. The cashier said 9,000 baht. I said no way. She sent me to the actual pharmacist. She gave me the name of a comparable drug that I could buy at most pharmacies. Cost only 3,000. And it cured me. How I thanked that Ram pharmacist.

I have no problem asking the Dr. what is being prescribed and they always tell me so I just go next door to KSK and buy it or a pharmacy depending on the hospital.

[masuk]

Unfortunately have had multiple dealings with RAM in the last couple of years.. Wife in ICU, complex surgery needed to her eye.. My own recent plating of limbs and pinning of joints..

I was super impressed with the knowledge, skill, and outcomes of all 4 surgeries (one was a 6 hour 3 surgeon marathon).. The cost was fine, well under phukets similar hospitals, the communication, equipment and wait times were superb in all cases.

If I have a complaint its the outpatient visiting.. At other higher end private hospitals visit times are usually down to a few minutes wait.. maybe 30.. Here they dont run a scheduling system, they dont have person 1 9:00 person 2 9:15 etc they just tell everyone to come at 9 am when the doc is there 9 - 12 and you have a huge wait to see the specialist. For this money they should do better.. The outpatient waiting is slow, and thats simply down to a lack of a system.

Any small grumbles aside.. I am happy to have a service like RAM there is I need it.. I am sure theres cheaper, your welcome to them. Medical treatment is one area I dont want to bargain hunt.

I had a long and expensive course of treatment at RAM for dental work. They were excellent, professional.

I see where a comparison has been made with USA costs: By total coincidence, my sister in Australia had a root canal and peg and cap done which cost her AU$1400, and at the same time I had the same thing at RAM for AU$400.

I didn't shop around. I know there must be cheaper places around Chiang Mai, but I was happy with the service.

[uptheos]

Unfortunately have had multiple dealings with RAM in the last couple of years.. Wife in ICU, complex surgery needed to her eye.. My own recent plating of limbs and pinning of joints..

I was super impressed with the knowledge, skill, and outcomes of all 4 surgeries (one was a 6 hour 3 surgeon marathon).. The cost was fine, well under phukets similar hospitals, the communication, equipment and wait times were superb in all cases.

If I have a complaint its the outpatient visiting.. At other higher end private hospitals visit times are usually down to a few minutes wait.. maybe 30.. Here they dont run a scheduling system, they dont have person 1 9:00 person 2 9:15 etc they just tell everyone to come at 9 am when the doc is there 9 - 12 and you have a huge wait to see the specialist. For this money they should do better.. The outpatient waiting is slow, and thats simply down to a lack of a system.

Any small grumbles aside.. I am happy to have a service like RAM there is I need it.. I am sure theres cheaper, your welcome to them. Medical treatment is one area I dont want to bargain hunt.

I had a long and expensive course of treatment at RAM for dental work. They were excellent, professional.

I see where a comparison has been made with USA costs: By total coincidence, my sister in Australia had a root canal and peg and cap done which cost her AU$1400, and at the same time I had the same thing at RAM for AU$400.

I didn't shop around. I know there must be cheaper places around Chiang Mai, but I was happy with the service.

In the end that's all that matters.

[bangmai]

RAM takes a lot of insurance....and that makes their prices higher for cash paying customers. My broken tooth could have been fixed by 100 different dentists in CM for 2500 THB, but I went to RAM Dental because it was on my list of providers...bill was 4500 THB, I paid zero....that's the way the cookie (or tooth) crumbles. It was 100% professional and hygienic. I do get a better vibe at Mccormick, but have only been for routine outpatient stuff, but they seem to be efficient and reasonable. Easy to get a price quote range before getting services, without any eyerolls, etc..

[Sparkles]

I was prescribed some medicine from a Ram Dr. The cashier said 9,000 baht. I said no way. She sent me to the actual pharmacist. She gave me the name of a comparable drug that I could buy at most pharmacies. Cost only 3,000. And it cured me. How I thanked that Ram pharmacist.

I have no problem asking the Dr. what is being prescribed and they always tell me so I just go next door to KSK and buy it or a pharmacy depending on the hospital.

We have had the same experience with different RAM specialists when we required medications, they understand the situation. There are however some medications that are "hospital only" and as the drugs are imported and attract tax it results in high cost.

We have full confidence in the RAM specialists we have encountered ,probably about 6 in 5 years including 3 occasions requiring an overnight or much longer stay.

RAM always seem to be the favourite whipping boys for a few,the solution is simple if you don't like the Dr's,the services provided or the cost go somewhere else.

[LarryBird]

Getting insurance doesn't make it cheaper.

[bangmai]

Getting insurance doesn't make it cheaper.

Larry, is that your Indiana logic or your Boston logic? Insurance is a necessary evil that can prevent you from financial ruin.

[Ulysses G.]

Just be thankful that McCormick is no longer the only option in the city.

Why are you knocking McCormick? I have always been well served there for routine outpatient services. Caring staff, good doctors, very reasonable charges for services and drugs.

He is real old hand and is talking about McCormick as it was 20-30 years ago. It is much better now.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[banagan]

banagan you describe your experience with RAM as "a complete rip off" Did you not consider the fact that you were at a private hospital and the question could have been asked of the staff "How

much will this cost?" If you then considered the price was too high you would have had the option of shopping around for a cheaper deal.

Of course Government Hospitals are cheaper and that comes with the negative, as has been pointed out, that you may have to wait some time for attention.

You will I guess in a few days need to get the stitches out and the wound checked, that's usually in the original charge ,better check

Good point, I hope I don't get charged again for removing the stitches... never did ask.

[Tywais]

banagan you describe your experience with RAM as "a complete rip off" Did you not consider the fact that you were at a private hospital and the question could have been asked of the staff "How

much will this cost?" If you then considered the price was too high you would have had the option of shopping around for a cheaper deal.

Of course Government Hospitals are cheaper and that comes with the negative, as has been pointed out, that you may have to wait some time for attention.

You will I guess in a few days need to get the stitches out and the wound checked, that's usually in the original charge ,better check

Good point, I hope I don't get charged again for removing the stitches... never did ask.

Follow ups I have never been charged for. This included dermatologist checking up on her procedure and a surgeon checkup and stitches removed after a large piece of skin was removed due to a basil cell carcinoma. But that is the same experience I had at Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok.

[LivinLOS]

Getting insurance doesn't make it cheaper.

Larry, is that your Indiana logic or your Boston logic? Insurance is a necessary evil that can prevent you from financial ruin.

Insurance is for poor people...

If you can afford to self insure, and are healthier than average and live a low risk life.. Why not ??

But you better be able to afford a few mil baht ICU if it goes wrong.. thats the choices.

[BarnicaleBob]

Whenever I have something minor that maybe just needs a few stitches I go to the local government hospital, I live in Doi Saket so that mean the Doi Saket hospital. Last time I went there I was giving a ride to one of my American neighbors who had sliced open his hand and needed about six stitches. His total bill including meds came to 250 baht. On another occasion I had surgery at Lanna Hospital but needed to have my surgical sight cleaned and redressed every day for a few days, I went to the Government hospital in Doi Saket and each time they cleaned and dressed my wound I was only charged 50 baht.

[beau thai]

banagan you describe your experience with RAM as "a complete rip off" Did you not consider the fact that you were at a private hospital and the question could have been asked of the staff "How

much will this cost?" If you then considered the price was too high you would have had the option of shopping around for a cheaper deal.

Of course Government Hospitals are cheaper and that comes with the negative, as has been pointed out, that you may have to wait some time for attention.

You will I guess in a few days need to get the stitches out and the wound checked, that's usually in the original charge ,better check

Good point, I hope I don't get charged again for removing the stitches... never did ask.

Follow ups I have never been charged for. This included dermatologist checking up on her procedure and a surgeon checkup and stitches removed after a large piece of skin was removed due to a basil cell carcinoma. But that is the same experience I had at Bumrungrad Hospital in Bangkok.

As a matter of interest did your free follow-ups include quarterly check ups for a couple of years to ensure no return- as in the west?? I am unsure how they deal with skin cancers here to ensure you are free of it.

[LarryBird]

Somebody just posted on my facebook feed that their knee cost $160,000 to fix, but not worry, cause insurance picked it up, so it was 'free'.

Curious what you think it would have cost if he didn't have insurance...

Here's a good one: Lasik eye surgery in Thailand costs about $2k, and in the states, it costs $3k. Why do you think that is? I would say: insurance isn't involved, and it's an optional service.

[true blue]

people should be grateful that there is a ram in chiang mai,only been twice in a good few years ive been here,and ive been very impressed with the services provided,

[bangmai]

Somebody just posted on my facebook feed that their knee cost $160,000 to fix, but not worry, cause insurance picked it up, so it was 'free'.

Curious what you think it would have cost if he didn't have insurance...

Here's a good one: Lasik eye surgery in Thailand costs about $2k, and in the states, it costs $3k. Why do you think that is? I would say: insurance isn't involved, and it's an optional service.

because if they botch one in the US, the settlement could be in the millions of Dollars, not hundreds.....Most health insurance does not cover Lasik. Lay off the Michael Moore movies....

This guy got 5.6 million USD for botched Lasik.............http://www.lasikfraud.com/news/archives/000232.html

Edited February 11, 2015 by bangmai

[northernjohn]

Somebody just posted on my facebook feed that their knee cost $160,000 to fix, but not worry, cause insurance picked it up, so it was 'free'.

Curious what you think it would have cost if he didn't have insurance...

Here's a good one: Lasik eye surgery in Thailand costs about $2k, and in the states, it costs $3k. Why do you think that is? I would say: insurance isn't involved, and it's an optional service.

because if they botch one in the US, the settlement could be in the millions of Dollars, not hundreds.....Most health insurance does not cover Lasik. Lay off the Michael Moore movies....

This guy got 5.6 million USD for botched Lasik.............http://www.lasikfraud.com/news/archives/000232.html

That has nothing to do with the cost of malpractice here in Thailand.

Also it was in New York in 2009. I would imagine the insurance company found reasons to have the case heard again and the way things go in the states it still might not be settled.

Also I would imagine that the poster meant 160,000 Baht not American dollars. they don't even charge that much in America. I had a hip replaced here in Chiang Mai for $6,300 Canadian. 183,000 baht.

The rate for Canadian was a lot better then.

[Tokay]

I had my appendix removed there. Thought it was priced OK compared to what some friends have paid in the USA. The service and care afterwards (private room) for the few days I was there was great. I think I paid 70,000 for the everything, including 3 nights in the private room. The doctor stitched me up nicely too, unlike many other scars I've seen there.

I'll admit, I can be pretty hard on the locals, but I have no complaints with my experience at RAM. However, I have plenty about other hospitals in Bangkok and Pattaya.

[Johpa]

Insurance is for poor people...

If you can afford to self insure, and are healthier than average and live a low risk life.. Why not

But you better be able to afford a few mil baht ICU if it goes wrong.. thats the choices.

Spoken by someone with limited knowledge of current medical and hospitalization costs. A serious illness or accident can easily run up to over $1,000.000 in costs over time. Few people can self-insure for that type of cost and that is why most wealthy people in the idiotic United States of America, maintain a health insurance plan. As for "low risk life", lifestyle is just propaganda by the corporatocracy to deflect blame for all the carcinogens that they put into the environment. Not that smoking does not increase your risk of lung cancer as about 15% of smokers will get lung cancer, a rate far above the general population. But your living in a modern industrialized world, especially a polluted landscape like Thailand, places you in an at-risk environment. And some cancers are often just the result of bad luck, genetic, often somatic mutations that can just as easily be caused by some distant stellar activity, or your most recent dental x-ray, or just some random mistake during cell division.

[JulieM]

LivinLOS wrote: "Insurance is for poor people."

I think it is more accurate to say that insurance is for people who have enough money that the cost of the insurance doesn't really matter.

[LivinLOS]

Insurance is for poor people...

If you can afford to self insure, and are healthier than average and live a low risk life.. Why not

But you better be able to afford a few mil baht ICU if it goes wrong.. thats the choices.

Spoken by someone with limited knowledge of current medical and hospitalization costs. A serious illness or accident can easily run up to over $1,000.000 in costs over time. Few people can self-insure for that type of cost and that is why most wealthy people in the idiotic United States of America, maintain a health insurance plan. As for "low risk life", lifestyle is just propaganda by the corporatocracy to deflect blame for all the carcinogens that they put into the environment. Not that smoking does not increase your risk of lung cancer as about 15% of smokers will get lung cancer, a rate far above the general population. But your living in a modern industrialized world, especially a polluted landscape like Thailand, places you in an at-risk environment. And some cancers are often just the result of bad luck, genetic, often somatic mutations that can just as easily be caused by some distant stellar activity, or your most recent dental x-ray, or just some random mistake during cell division.

I am not in the USA.. An emergency medical condition costing 33 million baht ?? That would be unable to stabilize me to return to the west (where I get cover if I wish) for that much.. doubt it..

A friend was in a bad way.. ICU for almost a month.. Coma, machines to breathe for him collapsed lungs and crushed rib cage, I think they had to remove a spleen or something.. About one and a half million THB.. Another multi millionaire friend on Phuket, had some brain anurism, flew the countries top brain guy down to Phuket just for his surgery, top of his skull removed and full on brain surgery, also under a couple mil.

Most of the Thai insurances top out at 5 mil baht or so.. As long as you have that on hand, in cash without liquidating other assets, self insurance is viable.

[LivinLOS]

LivinLOS wrote: "Insurance is for poor people."

I think it is more accurate to say that insurance is for people who have enough money that the cost of the insurance doesn't really matter.

And by extension, unnecessary for people who can simply pay for any eventuality..

I wouldnt advise it for anyone with say less than a mil usd easily accessible.. But over 5 mil usd ?? totally viable.

[circusman]

Insurance is for poor people...

If you can afford to self insure, and are healthier than average and live a low risk life.. Why not

But you better be able to afford a few mil baht ICU if it goes wrong.. thats the choices.

Spoken by someone with limited knowledge of current medical and hospitalization costs. A serious illness or accident can easily run up to over $1,000.000 in costs over time. Few people can self-insure for that type of cost and that is why most wealthy people in the idiotic United States of America, maintain a health insurance plan. As for "low risk life", lifestyle is just propaganda by the corporatocracy to deflect blame for all the carcinogens that they put into the environment. Not that smoking does not increase your risk of lung cancer as about 15% of smokers will get lung cancer, a rate far above the general population. But your living in a modern industrialized world, especially a polluted landscape like Thailand, places you in an at-risk environment. And some cancers are often just the result of bad luck, genetic, often somatic mutations that can just as easily be caused by some distant stellar activity, or your most recent dental x-ray, or just some random mistake during cell division.

You might live happier if you lived in a bubble. If I worried about the things you do I would be a nervous wreck.

[blueyeshk]

I personally favored ram over others but always felt overcharged tried recently the one at holiday inn hotel and was fast and fine and a lot cheaper. One more recent incident made me don't wanna go back to ram. Wanted to see an MD for a minor skin condition but they insisted I had to go up to their very very expensive dermatology department which anyway is always busy and hard to get an appointment the same day so after I ask them for the MD or I will go they let me go most likely forever.

[kjhbigv]

If you didn't want to pay top $$$$, then why go to the most expensive private hospital in CM?

Everyone knows that CM Ram is expensive, but offer a good, fast service.

The price you paid was correct, I had half a dozen stitches in my arm there a few years ago and it was the same price as you paid. I wanted it done quickly and wanted to be "in and out" hence I was happy to pay the premium.

I would suggest next time you go to another private, cheaper hospital (Lanna, McCormick etc) or Siripat which is a lot cheaper. Don't expect the same cosy surroundings or timescales at Siripat though.