Serious And Disturbing Email

[pedro01]

I've read the 10 pages of replies. Some good stuff there.

Personally, I'd already have had a PI onto it. As you say Tip - you don't want to give her advance warning if there is something wrong. You say that getting a PI is a violation of your trust for her - but if you did trust her 100%, then you wouldn't have started this thread. The whole trust & love issue is taking a rather simplistic and naive view of things.

The fact that she may be involved with a police man, does mean that your personal safety must be a concern. This isn't about trusting her with just your money but with your life.

On one hand - you say she never asks for extra money, on the other hand, you are worried that she can 'clean you out' if she finds out. So there must be some assets of value in Thailand - is this just furniture & fixtures ? Maybe a car ? Or is there a property in her name ? Exactly what do you stand to lose ?

If you can actually take that loss - maybe better to just confront her about it. Like you say - she'll clean you out to her best abilities

My girlfriends brother is married to a Thai bar girl. She's currently in koh xxxxxx with a western guy who is supporting her - he'll be back stateside soon, happy as a pig in shit, sending back 40,000 Baht a month. She will stop working in January as her & her husband will have saved enough money for a car and house in Isaan. They will then start a family. She never asked him for extra cash - just lived frugally on a little money - plus what her husband earns - and saved the rest. I'm not saying your lady is/was a bar girl but as we all know - this shit happens all the time.

Just a few weeks ago, a guy retired from his job in xxxxx to come back to his Thai girlfriend & live in his Thai house (her name) and drive his BMW (her name) and his retirement funds. A month before he came out - she asked for him to send 1 million baht & he did. When he got here, his girlfriend told him she had someone else (an English guy) and that he was surplus to requirements. They had been together for 3 years. He is now looking for a job as he was relying on having a house here which he sank considerable money into - looks like he got taken for about 6 or 7 million in all.

Just 2 different styles of extracting $$$ from foreigners - you should consider that there could be a third.

Best of luck - I hope she's one of the many good ones.

Pedro

[the swagman]

Bout time to come home and see the family.

I hope it's a windup.

[keda]

I am still on the first page of this thread, and note it is already 11 pages long from yeserday, so my thoughts are likely echoed elsewhere, several times, and may already be redundant but here goes.

First, as with most potentially critical situations - do nothing, say nothing, write nothing...Think!

Then, selfish or abhorent as it may seem, sod political correctness and high falutin Western principles, persuade yourself that you are indeed dealing with a Thai issue, and do what needs to be done to protect you, not her, her husband, boyfriend, or even her wonderful family.

With this mindset, maintain the status quo as you consider your options, consider them all, even what some may regard as the most absurd, such as betraying trust by bringing in a PI or other investigator.

Oh, and do not for an instant take anything for granted unless you know it as a fact. For example, is your respondent a Thai, and, so what if your 10k bank balance is still there?

No time now but will try and get through this thread later...Good luck.

keda

[GoodHeart]

Just a few weeks ago, a guy retired from his job in xxxxx to come back to his Thai girlfriend & live in his Thai house (her name) and drive his BMW (her name) and his retirement funds. A month before he came out - she asked for him to send 1 million baht & he did. When he got here, his girlfriend told him she had someone else (an English guy) and that he was surplus to requirements. They had been together for 3 years. He is now looking for a job as he was relying on having a house here which he sank considerable money into - looks like he got taken for about 6 or 7 million in all.

Just 2 different styles of extracting $$$ from foreigners - you should consider that there could be a third.

While I don't mean to derail this thread, a good segue every now and then never hurts.

A friend of mine recently shared this link to a very similar story. I'm still can't decide which party was the more outlandish of the pair- he for throwing money at a bar girl; or she, for being the black hole of greed. 2.5 Million was not enough a Kiwi's story

[Ned]

The email looks like it was composed by a farang who wants to move in. You've got to decide what is more important to you.....Your woman or your business in the US???? Somebody obviously doesn't want you to have both.

[lamphun]

I'd like to say your getting good advice, but..

1. Chill out.

2. Don't accuse your wife of anything from a distance unless your actually wanting to split.

[Papa_Lazarou]

Don't end up like that UK geezer Toby Charnaud - i.e on the barbie.

Esp, if there's a policeman knocking off your old lady. You watch your step and strategise.

They come at you with a stick, you come back with a bigger stick. In fact, no don't let them get any stick in. You strike first.

good luck and godspeed.

[Sing_Sling]

Many of my thoughts hav also been echoed here already and not meaning to criticise or put a downer on things, perhaps it is time to put things into a different perspective.

Is your work that important that you spend so little time at 'home', why not bring your wife to the US while you are there?

Would you like to be left alone fo such long times.

I guess what I'm getting at is the possibility that it is a cry for help - maybe she is too proud to tell you that and she or one of her friends has creatd the e-mail to stir you into action.

Yes, this is from left field, but who says people (women! ) are rational.

[the swagman]

Brilliant. What a fascinating story. TV, well done. Great stuff.

Tip, sorry old mate but if the trust isn't there anymore the heart is not going to be there either.

Trust is earned and is very very difficult to regain if lost.

I'd suggest taking care of all your business re money and joint-whatever you have, just in case, and then coming home for a visit.

When you arrive you will be, as someone else mentioned, an unshaven blabbering wreck of a man but at least you will have peace of mind.

What can you do?

Meditate.

I hope it works out for you.

[cclub75]

Believe me, having managed Thais and foreigners in Thailand I have seen very many poison pen letters (a shocking number) - jealousy, personal gain or anger over a snub is at the bottom of all them.

Yep, me too. And a lot, were true, to some extend.

Poison pen letters, or phone calls, are indeed very common in Thailand.

As a western it's easy to assume that is a "coward attitude", and therefore groundless.

But, as I said, it's a way for Thais to pass a message. It could be eliptical, or partial. And sometimes, the whistleblower just want to help (no direct personal gain).

But of course, he or she will never follow a western way : "hello my name is XX, i'm a your neighbour/partner/employee, and I have to tell you that... here are the proofs".

[Nawtilus]

Ok, get a friend who speaks thai, or a PI to do it and give them her phone number and then get them to call and say they met either someone who knows them, or they met your husband, the other one not you and discussed a business and would like to invite her and her husband to a meeting of 'amway' where they could make millions and get free holidays etc.

Then lets see who she turns up with !!

All us members could go as well and pretend to be amway consultants and customers...would have to go and buy a heap of soap and shit.

[bangkapiboy]

I would be extremely careful about my safety until getting this all checked out. Someone needs to stake out the condo. Time for stickman to get involved maybe!

[t.s]

The first thing I would do is read this piece from stickman. He does PI work and this piece give a lot of pointers. Second is I just skimmed this thread and I am sure I missed a lot but in general anxiety will rip a hole in you so you need to remove the cause ASAP. In his piece he shows how to trace an IP so if the email came from a place that makes no sense you can rest easy.

http://www.stickmanbangkok.com/Weekly2006/weekly274.htm

i reckon stinkman is the one sending the emails in an attempt to drum up business. it was just a matter of time before someone brought up his area of "expertise". Didn't he marry a policeman?

more on topic, I would have to confront her with the mails. I completely understand your feelings regarding PIs and engaging one feeling decietful.

[buddhafly]

devils advocate here: sorry to suggest this, but you wanted a discussion.

1. how much time per year have you spent in thailand since you married her? how many trips to your home country per year? she may very well have a thai husband (cop or not). it's hard for thai girls to get rid of cop boyfriends or husbands because they are so powerful and dangerouse and overbearing here. if you are here only a couple weeks or months a year it doesnt look good for your case. just cause she hasnt cleaned you out or abused you too much financially doesnt mean she doesnt benefit from your cash. thai women dont like to sit idle without a man around.

2. it could be even from a white guy (the email). maybe she has a white guy over, he wants her, so he fakes 'the bad thai writing'.

3. it could be a thai woman friend of hers she had over, and this thai friend is simply telling the truth because she respects human feelings. she writes the email while wifey is ion the shower.

4. it could be a thai boyfriend who is not a cop, just using 'cop' to scare you away.

5. and yes it could be the maid. the maid could have had a friend help her write it, or write on a paper what to write later when she was at the computer. the maid could do this as a lie if she thinks she can have your wifes life. or the maid could tell the truth to help you.

6. to me the info is quite specific, esp about the accident, which makes me feel uneasy like it could be true.

sorry this is happening to you. it sucks.

your only 3 choices are to either hire the private eye stickman or one of the other around thaispy or something.

or to fly back unanounced and surprise her, track her a bit yourself. have a printout of the email in case she catches you, you can say "well what was i supposed to do?'

contact her family and ask her dad. see what reaction you get.

good luck.

[Scott]

You definitely need to get a PI to check it out. If the allegations are false, then someone is out to hurt you and her and this needs to be sorted out.

Finally, I know women who have spent years, many years, with a farang husband and a thai husband. Eventually the other shoe dropped.

Right now, I have a good friend who can't quite see that his wife is messing around. He's been informed and basically accused everyone of lying--so we have all shut up.

Best of luck to you.

[nokmdk]

Alot of reading,

I'm now going to wait before i say too much, for a few reasons.

1. You have been asked questions that you have choosen not to answer, your own reasons perhaps.

2. Given alot of advice about IP tracking and you seem not to have even tryed much towards this, but time given to post pics.

I would now like to see a post of what you HAVE done with all the advice you have been given. Why have you not answered some very valid questions to help you, you after all asked.

Sucks that this has happened, sorry if it has happened.

I have been into this just as recently as 1 year ago. I can tell you what i did without the PI to find out the person resposible.

Best of luck and hope to see the questions of others answered and not avoided or forgotten perhaps.

1. 13k

2. IP checked

3. Who would gain from sending.

4. who was access to the info (forget the email name)

[taxexile]

digressing a bit here , but

Finally, I know women who have spent years, many years, with a farang husband and a thai husband. Eventually the other shoe dropped.

as a farang , in the company of a group of thais , it can be very difficult , if not impossible to actually figure out the relationships betwen them.

is that couple brother and sister , husband and wife , work colleagues , have they just met , are they a couple who have been together for years , are they a couple at all.

the interreactions seem to be similar between all of the above when in groups of more than 2 or 3.

in the uk , i can be among a group of people and within a few minutes i can have (usually correctly) worked out who is with who , who is related to who and who is working with who , who are friends etc.

its not so easy here.

as far as tippaporns problem goes , the more i read , the more i worry.

8 months away from a wife that is dearly loved is a long long time indeed.

she must feel emotionally negelected in spite of regular phone contact and financial help.

being thai , and from what it appears from tippaporns posts , being from a traditional type of background , she will not complain too much , but just accept the situation , long suffering acceptance as often practised by thai women can lead to the harbouring of grudges that will never be expressed , but will be felt within and possibly acted upon.

if she is a shy reticent type , she would be perfect material for grooming by a "typical" thai policeman , either groomed for an affair or groomed for some financial shenanigans.

again , i am not wishing to be overtly negative , but just playing devils advocate here.

either some skilful detective work on your own or aided by knowledgeable posters here , or the services of a reliable and trustworthy detective agency are called for. i would not be ready to confront yet , just in case there is mischief afoot.

love can be very blinding , especially when the object of that love is on the other side of the world and has not been seen or touched for 8 months.

tread carefully and i'm sure i speak for all when i say we are hoping for a happy outcome to this story , that is as gripping to us readers as it is devastatingly worrying to you.

[animatic]

two things

1) If her father is staying there, he might be seen, by another, as the new husband.

Or his presense as seen by a local detective you hired,

based on suspicians raised by this email,

might appear as a husband living in your place

2) especially if this is put in motion some guy who wants,

for whatever reason, to see you two broken up.

He might resent the farang having this fine woman,

or want her for himself.

Easy enough to plant suspicion on her.

Certianly someone is trying to play you,

and 8 months is a long time away from the wife,

the way thai women gossip and ASSUME the worst,

her "friends" could have been torquing her up

about YOU being unfaithful...

Still the surprise visit seems a good precaution.

A local detective, might not be a bad idea,

BUT THERE IS THE RISK OF HIM NOT ACTUALLY SEEING THE TRUTH,

ONLY APEARANCES,

AND THIS MIGHT BE WHAT YOUR EMAIL WRITER IS COUNTING ON..

a tough row to hoe.

Good luck

Edited August 23, 2006 by animatic

[rio666uk]

Hi Tip - sorry to hear of your situation... ive read the first 8 pages and thats taken 20 minutes to get this far.

1. forget about tracing emails & IP addresses - despite what you are told this is not something that can be accurately and simply with some freeware app... theres alot more to it than that - im a network analyst before anyone flames me

2. its easy to be swayed into a certain train of thought on this, you need to keep a level head and be sure that youre not trying to convince yourself of the outcome, whichever way it may go

3. for your own sanity, you should seriously consider a PI to look into this for you. you should certainly seek their advice for some reassurance of how they could help. If for the reasons you state, you are still happy with this plan then i would suggest returning to thailand un-announced. Not with the intentions of confrontation but so as you can look into / investigate this situation yourself.

You must have friends that you can stay with whilst you compose yourself and start picking through this obviously volatile situation.

I hope you find your direction from all these posts - theres alot of good advice here - but only you can decide which way to go!

take care

666

Edited August 23, 2006 by rio666uk

[Membrane]

Get a private investigator. Have him tail her and see what she does, where she goes. That's all you have to do. But prepare for the worst FIRST by emptying out your account. Live a little bit in there, just so she's not too suspicious. Close all other accesses she might have to your money. Do NOT tell her about anything. Do NOT ask any suspicious questions. Just let the PI do his work and get this settled and out of your mind, once and for all.

[Papa_Lazarou]

The first thing I would do is read this piece from stickman. He does PI work

He goes to go go bars and offers to barfine the object of the investigation, then he may (or may not) shag them. Thereafter reporting back.

Stickman ain't going to knock on the door of somewhere possibly containing an armed horny cop.

Generally, for those of us wot have partners. If you hear malicious gossip about them, you go to your partner and confront them, you don't start farting around with detectives and laying elaborate traps. Thats basic, normal relationship-management 101. It also applies in Thailand.

Edited August 23, 2006 by Papa_Lazarou

[thedude]

could it be that your avoidance of the PI route is due to the certainty it could bring, and that you are really afraid of finding out the truth, because it may force you to do something conclusive.

maybe if you did nothing other than talk with strangers on a forum, you could convince yourself that you truly explored your options but in the end decided to wait and do nothing.

because by doing nothing, the problem might sort itself out.

and besides, you are there for the long haul, whereas cop guy may not be around in say, 10 years.

don't mean to be provocative, i've been cheated on before in life, and sometimes i wished i'd never been rudely presented with the truth and instead let ignorance and time work out a 'soft landing'.

[rio666uk]

Generally, for those of us wot have partners. If you hear malicious gossip about them, you go to your partner and confront them, you don't start farting around with detectives and laying elaborate traps. Thats basic, normal relationship-management 101. It also applies in Thailand.

#edit

your point is true - however, given that the OP is on the other side of the world, "relationship-management 101" may be open to abuse / lying - dont you think...

[Charma]

because by doing nothing, the problem might sort itself out

Unfortunately for Tip, it is too late for this. He has been sent these emails and with the best will in the world (and from reading his posts), I do not think he can simply put it out of his mind and carry on.

Tip, some have suggested that you raise this with her and look for the reaction. The problem is that, at this point, you are desperate for this to be a hoax. Every part of you will be looking for this to be proved false. You would tell her about the emails and be massively relieved when she tells you it is nonsense and that she still loves you. You will hug her and cry together and feel the relief of it all. However, every time you leave her, the thoughts would return and eventually you will be back where you are now. If she really is innocent, your relationship will still be in jeopardy because of these feelings. If she is not innocent, the risks are even worse.

I think that the only chance you have of this relationship lasting is for you to know for sure. Anything else is a compromise.

[Papa_Lazarou]

your point is true - however, given that the OP is on the other side of the world, "relationship-management 101" may be open to abuse / lying - dont you think...

Even if you're on the other side of the galaxy, your first move on hearing negative comment on your wife/husband shouldn't be to hire a team of ladyboy detectives.

You talk to them first. If you' think you're being lied to, then perhaps you go to Plan B.

Plan A comes first though.

[TokyoT]

A strong marriage will soon break down if TRUST is replaced by suspicion.

Yes, yes, and a big bank account may soon break down if Trust is not replaced by suspicion.

Get a PI on the case. - Sending you a PM with some PI contact info (I have no vested interest in this PI's operations).

[rio666uk]

your point is true - however, given that the OP is on the other side of the world, "relationship-management 101" may be open to abuse / lying - dont you think...

Even if you're on the other side of the galaxy, your first move on hearing negative comment on your wife/husband shouldn't be to hire a team of ladyboy detectives.

You talk to them first. If you' think you're being lied to, then perhaps you go to Plan B.

Plan A comes first though.

sorry man - i know where youre coming from but dont think it applies to every situation...

if the OP confronts his wife by phone:-

if its a hoax she will deny everything and be very upset by the whole situation, there will then be further upset for the couple until reunited and they can start piecing together who would be behind this.

if its not a hoax she will certainly deny everything and probably start making plans to grab what she can cos she knows shes been rumbled...

given that the OP is currently in the US, i would think that edging on the side caution and keeping an element of suprise would be a much more level headed thing to do.... i cant see any other way of achieving this without either employing an Investigator or turning up unannounced.

[Papa_Lazarou]

My Thai partner usually tries no subterfuge or denials when I am in the 'doghouse'

Often a frying pan accompanies the verbal assault.

[Ken]

your point is true - however, given that the OP is on the other side of the world, "relationship-management 101" may be open to abuse / lying - dont you think...

Even if you're on the other side of the galaxy, your first move on hearing negative comment on your wife/husband shouldn't be to hire a team of ladyboy detectives.

You talk to them first. If you' think you're being lied to, then perhaps you go to Plan B.

Plan A comes first though.

Firstly, Tip sorry to hear about the problem.

Papa, have to disagree. If I had it to do over again I would go with Plan B. I tried the Plan A with my first Thai wife of 10 years and now divorced from her for 4 years. Six years ago I was working in the USA and I received the "dreaded phone call", wife had a Thai boyfriend living with her. I confronted her, got the lies from her blah blah blah, and at first I believed her. Took me 18 months to find out that she was lying and get the mess straightened out and her out of my life. Tip needs to find out for sure and of course we all hope that the email was a hoax. If I had it to do over again I would go with the PI.

[Papa_Lazarou]

Ok , brainstorming ..thinking out of the box - how about Plan C

"Let sleeping dogs lie"

If she's getting her oats elsewhere, then it might as well be with a policeman than a tuk tuk driver. At least the house is protected.

If you're 10,000 miles away, doesn't make much difference if she's having an occasional schlumpfing. If you were there it would be you, you're not so she adapts. You're still numero uno. Think of the copper as no more than a sexual aid, eg dildo