Bali duo to be moved for execution

[neverdie]

First of all no one forces anyone to take drugs. It's their choice. Secondly if they are executed, u don't think another two will take their place... Most definitely yes. You are never going to clean the streets of drug mules, drug users unless drugs are legal.

On your first point, you are wrong. I know of several cases where people were forcefully injected with the drug.....and there's more but I won't go on because the 'sensitive' people know better.

I wonder if they will play Queens track 'Another one bites the dust' at the execution or that newer song 'Bang bang' ?

?

[neverdie]

Today the Australian Parliament voted unanimously to condemn the Indonesian government for not showing mercy while they themselves canvas foreign countries on behalf of their own citizens on death row.

Not very often can the Australian politicians agree on anything but today they were 100% united on this issue!

Sadly they do not have the balls to excerpt real pressure on their corrupt neighbours to the North.

That's the problem with Oztralia....too much pc crap & not a politician with a set.

Next week at the indo parliament they will drop a GROUP MOON back at Oz when they squeeze a few shots off ! 5555

[z42]

Disgusting conduct. These lads are reformed & they actually have a lot to give back to society be it in Indonesia or Australia, stuff to actually atone for their crime & continue to repay their debt. For any people to have spent almost 10 years in a hell hole prison & actually come out with their heads held high, only for them to be shot off literally. Makes me sick. Definitely would NEVER set foot in Indonesia now.

Drug war is a farce, causes so many more problems than the actual drugs themselves. So much sympathy for the 2 guys' families

No sympathy what so ever for these lowlife pieces of excrement who's drugs would have destroyed families back in Aust. Paedophiles and drug traffickers are the lowest of low and they deserve to die. They won't kill anyone else or destroy other families. No place for this scum on this planet.

More BS and hyperbole. Rapists, killers, kidnappers, extortionists, corrupt govt officials, human traffickers, freelance arms suppliers, and even drink drivers are lower forms of life than somebody who is a tiny cog in an international drug trafficking network.

In australia the government does a lot to help addicts get off the drugs, the fact they choose not to do it, or if they choose not to stick to the treatment prescribed for them, then they don't have my sympathy. The families obviously do. However it is naive to think that only heroin addicts tear families apart.

Where on your list of shame are the men who get drunk and beat their wives, girlfriends, children night after night? And more pentinently where are the bottle shop owners who happily serve him his booze night after night. I fail to see the distinction between the 2. Enlighten me without referring to made up laws that haven't been amended for about 40 years.

How is 1 poison more socially acceptable to sell than others. A little hint, it isn't

Edited February 12, 2015 by z42

[frank0424]

First of all no one forces anyone to take drugs. It's their choice. Secondly if they are executed, u don't think another two will take their place... Most definitely yes. You are never going to clean the streets of drug mules, drug users unless drugs are legal.

Yes. Im sure the people the drugs were intended for have scored elsewhere since

[frank0424]

First of all no one forces anyone to take drugs. It's their choice. Secondly if they are executed, u don't think another two will take their place... Most definitely yes. You are never going to clean the streets of drug mules, drug users unless drugs are legal.

I wonder if they will play Queens track 'Another one bites the dust' at the execution or that newer song 'Bang bang' ?

?

We respect your views on the death penalty but there is no need to add your sick, pathetic humour in this type of situation. Obviously you think you are witty and intelligent- far from it

[Sealbash]

Disgusting conduct. These lads are reformed & they actually have a lot to give back to society be it in Indonesia or Australia, stuff to actually atone for their crime & continue to repay their debt. For any people to have spent almost 10 years in a hell hole prison & actually come out with their heads held high, only for them to be shot off literally. Makes me sick. Definitely would NEVER set foot in Indonesia now.

Drug war is a farce, causes so many more problems than the actual drugs themselves. So much sympathy for the 2 guys' families

No sympathy what so ever for these lowlife pieces of excrement who's drugs would have destroyed families back in Aust. Paedophiles and drug traffickers are the lowest of low and they deserve to die. They won't kill anyone else or destroy other families. No place for this scum on this planet.

More BS and hyperbole. Rapists, killers, kidnappers, extortionists, corrupt govt officials, human traffickers, freelance arms suppliers, and even drink drivers are lower forms of life than somebody who is a tiny cog in an international drug trafficking network.

In australia the government does a lot to help addicts get off the drugs, the fact they choose not to do it, or if they choose not to stick to the treatment prescribed for them, then they don't have my sympathy. The families obviously do. However it is naive to think that only heroin addicts tear families apart.

Where on your list of shame are the men who get drunk and beat their wives, girlfriends, children night after night? And more pentinently where are the bottle shop owners who happily serve him his booze night after night. I fail to see the distinction between the 2. Enlighten me without referring to made up laws that haven't been amended for about 40 years.

How is 1 poison more socially acceptable to sell than others. A little hint, it isn't

Not sure what news reports you may have been reading, but it seems that a larger percentage of heroin addicts commit violent crime to support their habit than do alcohol or I continue addicts.

[AlanAunuum]

i do not understand all the posts on here condoning their impending execution, it is very clear that these 2 were seasoned drug mules, they kneW the risks involved and were willing to do the jobs. They got caught in a country where they knew the penalty, it does not matter one jot that they have been good boys for the past 10 years,they knew the score if they got caught. They are convicted drug pushers and the penalty is death.IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME THEN DON'T DO THE CRIME. 2 less drug smugglers to worry about. This should have happened 10 years ago instead of wasting money on them in prison, sure as hell they won't do it again.No sympathy what so ever.

Edited February 12, 2015 by AlanAunuum

[Showbags]

If not caught...what would they be doingvtoday ? Would chan have found god ?

[z42]

Disgusting conduct. These lads are reformed & they actually have a lot to give back to society be it in Indonesia or Australia, stuff to actually atone for their crime & continue to repay their debt. For any people to have spent almost 10 years in a hell hole prison & actually come out with their heads held high, only for them to be shot off literally. Makes me sick. Definitely would NEVER set foot in Indonesia now.

Drug war is a farce, causes so many more problems than the actual drugs themselves. So much sympathy for the 2 guys' families

No sympathy what so ever for these lowlife pieces of excrement who's drugs would have destroyed families back in Aust. Paedophiles and drug traffickers are the lowest of low and they deserve to die. They won't kill anyone else or destroy other families. No place for this scum on this planet.

More BS and hyperbole. Rapists, killers, kidnappers, extortionists, corrupt govt officials, human traffickers, freelance arms suppliers, and even drink drivers are lower forms of life than somebody who is a tiny cog in an international drug trafficking network.

In australia the government does a lot to help addicts get off the drugs, the fact they choose not to do it, or if they choose not to stick to the treatment prescribed for them, then they don't have my sympathy. The families obviously do. However it is naive to think that only heroin addicts tear families apart.

Where on your list of shame are the men who get drunk and beat their wives, girlfriends, children night after night? And more pentinently where are the bottle shop owners who happily serve him his booze night after night. I fail to see the distinction between the 2. Enlighten me without referring to made up laws that haven't been amended for about 40 years.

How is 1 poison more socially acceptable to sell than others. A little hint, it isn't

Not sure what news reports you may have been reading, but it seems that a larger percentage of heroin addicts commit violent crime to support their habit than do alcohol or I continue addicts.

Complete BS, again. If you've seen heroin addicts before you'd know that more often than not they're very skittish because they stand out like a sore thumb and most beat cops will be on first name terms with them as they offend repeatedly to get money for their fix.

They get lifted often as they tend to engage mostly in petty crime such as shoplifting or house burglary. 'They rarely do muggings because they aren't very good at them. they stick to the crimes that are profitiable for them & where they can shift the goods quickly and easily & basically get out of sight and into somewhere to.consume their drugs. It is disgusting for sure, but certainly not violent crime in most instances.

My sister is a nurse and she deals daily with alcoholics, domestic violence victims (sometimes even followed in by the attacker), victims of drink drivers, and drunken brawlers. She assures me that those who abuse alcohol or who have abused alcohol recently are far far more troublesome to deal with than those who are addicted to opiates and crack cocaine.

On the topic at hand. The heroin dealers should receive hefty punishments because what they deal does mess people's lives up and create massive collateral damage. But they shouldn't be put to death by being shot by a firing squad in some squalid location.

But why should bottle shop owners, bar owners and such like be able to make a living selling equally harmfui products to the public. Both are equally terrible in the wrong hands.

Botom line, Indonesia is not serving justice to anybody here. This reckless line they take will blow up in their faces down the line. That's only gonna hurt Indonesian business interests which is doubly bad

[brewsterbudgen]

i do not understand all the posts on here condoning their impending execution, it is very clear that these 2 were seasoned drug mules, they kneW the risks involved and were willing to do the jobs. They got caught in a country where they knew the penalty, it does not matter one jot that they have been good boys for the past 10 years,they knew the score if they got caught. They are convicted drug pushers and the penalty is death.IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME THEN DON'T DO THE CRIME. 2 less drug smugglers to worry about. This should have happened 10 years ago instead of wasting money on them in prison, sure as hell they won't do it again.No sympathy what so ever.

You're condoning their execution, but you don't understand why? I'm confused!!

[Sealbash]

Disgusting conduct. These lads are reformed & they actually have a lot to give back to society be it in Indonesia or Australia, stuff to actually atone for their crime & continue to repay their debt. For any people to have spent almost 10 years in a hell hole prison & actually come out with their heads held high, only for them to be shot off literally. Makes me sick. Definitely would NEVER set foot in Indonesia now.

Drug war is a farce, causes so many more problems than the actual drugs themselves. So much sympathy for the 2 guys' families

No sympathy what so ever for these lowlife pieces of excrement who's drugs would have destroyed families back in Aust. Paedophiles and drug traffickers are the lowest of low and they deserve to die. They won't kill anyone else or destroy other families. No place for this scum on this planet.

More BS and hyperbole. Rapists, killers, kidnappers, extortionists, corrupt govt officials, human traffickers, freelance arms suppliers, and even drink drivers are lower forms of life than somebody who is a tiny cog in an international drug trafficking network.

In australia the government does a lot to help addicts get off the drugs, the fact they choose not to do it, or if they choose not to stick to the treatment prescribed for them, then they don't have my sympathy. The families obviously do. However it is naive to think that only heroin addicts tear families apart.

Where on your list of shame are the men who get drunk and beat their wives, girlfriends, children night after night? And more pentinently where are the bottle shop owners who happily serve him his booze night after night. I fail to see the distinction between the 2. Enlighten me without referring to made up laws that haven't been amended for about 40 years.
How is 1 poison more socially acceptable to sell than others. A little hint, it isn't

Not sure what news reports you may have been reading, but it seems that a larger percentage of heroin addicts commit violent crime to support their habit than do alcohol or I continue addicts.

Complete BS, again. If you've seen heroin addicts before you'd know that more often than not they're very skittish because they stand out like a sore thumb and most beat cops will be on first name terms with them as they offend repeatedly to get money for their fix.
They get lifted often as they tend to engage mostly in petty crime such as shoplifting or house burglary. 'They rarely do muggings because they aren't very good at them. they stick to the crimes that are profitiable for them & where they can shift the goods quickly and easily & basically get out of sight and into somewhere to.consume their drugs. It is disgusting for sure, but certainly not violent crime in most instances.

My sister is a nurse and she deals daily with alcoholics, domestic violence victims (sometimes even followed in by the attacker), victims of drink drivers, and drunken brawlers. She assures me that those who abuse alcohol or who have abused alcohol recently are far far more troublesome to deal with than those who are addicted to opiates and crack cocaine.

On the topic at hand. The heroin dealers should receive hefty punishments because what they deal does mess people's lives up and create massive collateral damage. But they shouldn't be put to death by being shot by a firing squad in some squalid location.
But why should bottle shop owners, bar owners and such like be able to make a living selling equally harmfui products to the public. Both are equally terrible in the wrong hands.

Botom line, Indonesia is not serving justice to anybody here. This reckless line they take will blow up in their faces down the line. That's only gonna hurt Indonesian business interests which is doubly bad

It will harm Indonesia business interests in the same way it has harmed Singapore business interests?

[Nowisee]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So what do you think about folk who have died via these folks choice of occupation...?

Anyone who dies from overdosing on heroin has my sympathy (or their family does), but it to imply that the person who sold them the drugs is the only one responsible for their death is misguided. Executing these people doesn't help anyone. Using the death penalty for drug offences is deeply wrong.

First of all no one forces anyone to take drugs. It's their choice. Secondly if they are executed, u don't think another two will take their place... Most definitely yes. You are never going to clean the streets of drug mules, drug users unless drugs are legal.

Here is an example of reasonable thinking people, people that can effect change in a society.

For the pinheads, the logic would go something like this.

Someone that traffics in children for sexual abuse deserves the most severe penalty. As do those that abuse the children. Those children do not have a choice, they are forced... unlike the person that choses to use drugs... who is not much different than you if you smoke cigs or drink alcohol... the "victim" is the end user.

[copa8]

I think they should execute all of the Bali 9 gang,

Why only those two guys get the death penalty.

Martin Stephens was found to be carrying 3.3 kg (7.3 lb); Renae Lawrence was found to be carrying 2.689 kg (5.93 lb); Michael Czugaj was found to be carrying 1.75 kg (3.9 lb) and Scott Rush was found to be carrying 1.3 kg (2.9 lb) of heroin.

Myuran Sukumaran only had around 300g+ heroin on him and those farang boys carried over 8kg.

It is odd that both Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran are non-white and on death row.

[copa8]

i do not understand all the posts on here condoning their impending execution, it is very clear that these 2 were seasoned drug mules, they kneW the risks involved and were willing to do the jobs. They got caught in a country where they knew the penalty, it does not matter one jot that they have been good boys for the past 10 years,they knew the score if they got caught. They are convicted drug pushers and the penalty is death.IF YOU CAN'T DO THE TIME THEN DON'T DO THE CRIME. 2 less drug smugglers to worry about. This should have happened 10 years ago instead of wasting money on them in prison, sure as hell they won't do it again.No sympathy what so ever.

You're condoning their execution, but you don't understand why? I'm confused!!

He was probably high while typing that post.

[Baerboxer]

Disgusting conduct. These lads are reformed & they actually have a lot to give back to society be it in Indonesia or Australia, stuff to actually atone for their crime & continue to repay their debt. For any people to have spent almost 10 years in a hell hole prison & actually come out with their heads held high, only for them to be shot off literally. Makes me sick. Definitely would NEVER set foot in Indonesia now.

Drug war is a farce, causes so many more problems than the actual drugs themselves. So much sympathy for the 2 guys' families

Are you kidding me? Do you actually condone the fact that they were trying to smuggle 8,5kgs of heroin into Australia? At the time that was worth AUD4m. Their greed caught up with them. And just how have they reformed? He was a habitual druggie himself and he planned to make money - research it.

Plus they know the laws of Indonesia (and Malaysia) that drugs carry the death penalty - much like the slow death of the consumers of heroin and the total destruction of their family and social network.

Glad you now have no plans to go to Indonesia.

z42 is certainly a staunch defender of all alleged perpetrators of drug offences discussed on this forum whether large or small quantities.

Perhaps he will be bringing up his familiar argument soon that alcohol is a worse problem.

I have already, and it is. The figures of dead, injured and aggrieved per capita and per country support the notion.

Only 1 with his head up his nether regions doesn't see this.

And unless you're going to disprove this and state the case that alcohol is super safe and doesn't affect anything or anyone negatively, then don't waste your time trolling again ta

Alcohol and tobacco are not illegal and are readily available to adults in most countries. Heroin is an illegal drug, not readily available and therefore expensive to obtain from criminals who profit from breaking the law.

Do you think that ease of availability and widespread use may have something to do with the figures you refer to?

The laws and penalties for drug smuggling are known. Break them pursuing vast profits, get caught, expect to be punished. End of.

[Baerboxer]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So what do you think about folk who have died via these folks choice of occupation...?

Anyone who dies from overdosing on heroin has my sympathy (or their family does), but it to imply that the person who sold them the drugs is the only one responsible for their death is misguided. Executing these people doesn't help anyone. Using the death penalty for drug offences is deeply wrong.

First of all no one forces anyone to take drugs. It's their choice. Secondly if they are executed, u don't think another two will take their place... Most definitely yes. You are never going to clean the streets of drug mules, drug users unless drugs are legal.

Here is an example of reasonable thinking people, people that can effect change in a society.

For the pinheads, the logic would go something like this.

Someone that traffics in children for sexual abuse deserves the most severe penalty. As do those that abuse the children. Those children do not have a choice, they are forced... unlike the person that choses to use drugs... who is not much different than you if you smoke cigs or drink alcohol... the "victim" is the end user.

Amazing, And your demonstrated logical powers makes you think others are pinheads. Incredible really.

[JackieMager]

I've said it once but will say it again. They did not kill anyone. What they did was a crime. But anyone that takes drugs, it's their choice. If they die from an overdose it's their doings. If some one was buying drugs from these guys, they are now buying drugs from some one else. I'm sick of hearing or at least reading ... Do the crime do the time. ( whatever it is) if that is the law of Indonesia then how come the other Bali 9 don't get the death penalty. Give me a break please.... These two guys are the only colored ones out of the Bali 9 . The others were carrying drugs and in Indo that's a crime. So does this make sense . All you callous people who believe they should be executed think about it.... Two condemned and the others not. These two have done their time and if needs be, give them another ten years but NOT death.

[MrWorldwide]

I've said it once but will say it again. They did not kill anyone. What they did was a crime. But anyone that takes drugs, it's their choice. If they die from an overdose it's their doings. If some one was buying drugs from these guys, they are now buying drugs from some one else. I'm sick of hearing or at least reading ... Do the crime do the time. ( whatever it is) if that is the law of Indonesia then how come the other Bali 9 don't get the death penalty. Give me a break please.... These two guys are the only colored ones out of the Bali 9 . The others were carrying drugs and in Indo that's a crime. So does this make sense . All you callous people who believe they should be executed think about it.... Two condemned and the others not. These two have done their time and if needs be, give them another ten years but NOT death.

You're a little late to the party - if you believed this strongly in the injustice of state-sponsored executions, you would have been campaigning for them years ago. As for the sentiment that addicts have a choice, that completely ignores physical and psychological dependence : last time I checked both were very real for heroin users and methadone is allegedly an even harder habit to kick. One might argue that they were simply in the wrong place at the wrong time - like so many who have died in Asia before their time - but the difference is that they made a choice to strap the heroin on the others : they were the ringleaders and reportedly used threats of violence when youngsters like Scott Rush began to get cold feet.

If you go back and read the Wikipedia article, several of the others were sentenced to death at various stages only to have their sentences commuted. Chan and Sukumaran have never denied their pivotal role in the planning and execution of the crime - both had done a previous shipment from Bali to Australia and both knew the risks. If they were convicted pedophiles facing execution for human trafficking, I doubt that there is a single board member who wouldnt be shouting 'Bring it on !', but somehow this is different because pedophiles ruin the lives of innocents and traffickers/dealers only ruin the lives of addicts ? Let's forget the ridiculously high percentage of people in jails all over the world for drug-related crime or the fact that its an epidemic throughout the developing nations in Asia - suddenly we're supposed to fight for the lives of people who didnt give a flying frack about their victims or society at large as long as they got paid ?

No-one is arguing that Indonesia isnt a corrupt, massively hypocritical country showboating to the rest of the world to show how 'tough' Jakarta is prepared to be on drugs. This is political and it has been from the start, but if they caught nine foreigners (and other syndicate members back in Oz) conspiring to use your home country as the base for drug trafficking, surely you have a right to do with punish them to the full extent of your laws ? Chan and Sukumaran werent children - they were adults and they were tried as such. Cause and effect, and soon their earthly problems will be over - I hope the Indonesians dont drag this out any longer. There are more victims in this saga - their families - and both have endured enough pain while Jakarta and Canberra continue to play games - let the decision of the courts be carried out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bali_Nine#Summary_of_sentences

[cocopops]

Yet another thread demonstrating the correlation between basic literacy and progressive views on drug prohibition.

The only exceptions appear to be a small fraction of those with an authoritarian bent, who are apparently at least able to express their perverse joy at the execution of these smugglers without misspelling every third word or using more than one consecutive punctuation character.

Edited February 12, 2015 by cocopops

[nottocus]

Great news. Hope it's painful.

[neverdie]

Complete BS, again. If you've seen heroin addicts before you'd know that more often than not they're very skittish because they stand out like a sore thumb and most beat cops will be on first name terms with them as they offend repeatedly to get money for their fix.

They get lifted often as they tend to engage mostly in petty crime such as shoplifting or house burglary. 'They rarely do muggings because they aren't very good at them. they stick to the crimes that are profitiable for them & where they can shift the goods quickly and easily & basically get out of sight and into somewhere to.consume their drugs. It is disgusting for sure, but certainly not violent crime in most instances.

My sister is a nurse and she deals daily with alcoholics, domestic violence victims (sometimes even followed in by the attacker), victims of drink drivers, and drunken brawlers. She assures me that those who abuse alcohol or who have abused alcohol recently are far far more troublesome to deal with than those who are addicted to opiates and crack cocaine.

On the topic at hand. The heroin dealers should receive hefty punishments because what they deal does mess people's lives up and create massive collateral damage. But they shouldn't be put to death by being shot by a firing squad in some squalid location.

But why should bottle shop owners, bar owners and such like be able to make a living selling equally harmfui products to the public. Both are equally terrible in the wrong hands.

Botom line, Indonesia is not serving justice to anybody here. This reckless line they take will blow up in their faces down the line. That's only gonna hurt Indonesian business interests which is doubly bad

I understand your opposition to the death penalty but I don't understand why you need to compare this back to alcohol and all it's dregery. Alcohol is an evil substance & the violence that comes out of it is often, often severe and ongoing.

However this is about heroin and you are wrong about people on it not becoming violent. I have seen people on the gear comitt some of the most violent crimes, everything from armed hold ups and shootings to murder and just about everything below. I've seen addicts do virtually anything to secure their next hit including selling their own families out and violent attacks on Police during arrests.

I've seen heaps of violent stuff on alcohol too, dontbworry about that but this is about heroin. The crime that goes on surrounding that substance would make your skin crawl. Don't be so neive, there's people out there dealing with the stuff and it's associated problems while you sleep. I use be one of them.

These two grotty men were part of the supply chain not a user caught up in its evilness. Their sentence is 10 years overdue, it's time to pay the piper and time to cop it sweet. They only have themselves to blame.

I'm antii alcohol but that has NOTHING to do with it.

Edited February 12, 2015 by neverdie

[chooka]

Complete BS, again. If you've seen heroin addicts before you'd know that more often than not they're very skittish because they stand out like a sore thumb and most beat cops will be on first name terms with them as they offend repeatedly to get money for their fix.

They get lifted often as they tend to engage mostly in petty crime such as shoplifting or house burglary. 'They rarely do muggings because they aren't very good at them. they stick to the crimes that are profitiable for them & where they can shift the goods quickly and easily & basically get out of sight and into somewhere to.consume their drugs. It is disgusting for sure, but certainly not violent crime in most instances.

My sister is a nurse and she deals daily with alcoholics, domestic violence victims (sometimes even followed in by the attacker), victims of drink drivers, and drunken brawlers. She assures me that those who abuse alcohol or who have abused alcohol recently are far far more troublesome to deal with than those who are addicted to opiates and crack cocaine.

On the topic at hand. The heroin dealers should receive hefty punishments because what they deal does mess people's lives up and create massive collateral damage. But they shouldn't be put to death by being shot by a firing squad in some squalid location.

But why should bottle shop owners, bar owners and such like be able to make a living selling equally harmfui products to the public. Both are equally terrible in the wrong hands.

Botom line, Indonesia is not serving justice to anybody here. This reckless line they take will blow up in their faces down the line. That's only gonna hurt Indonesian business interests which is doubly bad

I understand your opposition to the death penalty but I don't understand why you need to compare this back to alcohol and all it's dregery. Alcohol is an evil substance & the violence that comes out of it is often, often severe and ongoing.

However this is about heroin and you are wrong about people on it not becoming violent. I have seen people on the gear comitt some of the most violent crimes, everything from armed hold ups and shootings to murder and just about everything below. I've seen addicts do virtually anything to secure their next hit including selling their own families out and violent attacks on Police during arrests.

I've seen heaps of violent stuff on alcohol too, dontbworry about that but this is about heroin. The crime that goes on surrounding that substance would make your skin crawl. Don't be so neive, there's people out there dealing with the stuff and it's associated problems while you sleep. I use be one of them.

These two grotty men were part of the supply chain not a user caught up in its evilness. Their sentence is 10 years overdue, it's time to pay the piper and time to cop it sweet. They only have themselves to blame.

I'm antii alcohol but that has NOTHING to do with it.

Agree 100% neverdie and tired of these hug a criminal and stuff the victim supporters. They knew exactly what they were doing and the consequences. They made a life choice and we're prepared to run the gauntlet. There were plenty of warnings and they are in your face everywhere in Ball and they bared thier naked rear ends at these warnings and at Indonesian authority and society. They signed thier own death warrants.

[neverdie]

Complete BS, again. If you've seen heroin addicts before you'd know that more often than not they're very skittish because they stand out like a sore thumb and most beat cops will be on first name terms with them as they offend repeatedly to get money for their fix.

They get lifted often as they tend to engage mostly in petty crime such as shoplifting or house burglary. 'They rarely do muggings because they aren't very good at them. they stick to the crimes that are profitiable for them & where they can shift the goods quickly and easily & basically get out of sight and into somewhere to.consume their drugs. It is disgusting for sure, but certainly not violent crime in most instances.

My sister is a nurse and she deals daily with alcoholics, domestic violence victims (sometimes even followed in by the attacker), victims of drink drivers, and drunken brawlers. She assures me that those who abuse alcohol or who have abused alcohol recently are far far more troublesome to deal with than those who are addicted to opiates and crack cocaine.

On the topic at hand. The heroin dealers should receive hefty punishments because what they deal does mess people's lives up and create massive collateral damage. But they shouldn't be put to death by being shot by a firing squad in some squalid location.

But why should bottle shop owners, bar owners and such like be able to make a living selling equally harmfui products to the public. Both are equally terrible in the wrong hands.

Botom line, Indonesia is not serving justice to anybody here. This reckless line they take will blow up in their faces down the line. That's only gonna hurt Indonesian business interests which is doubly bad

I understand your opposition to the death penalty but I don't understand why you need to compare this back to alcohol and all it's dregery. Alcohol is an evil substance & the violence that comes out of it is often, often severe and ongoing.

However this is about heroin and you are wrong about people on it not becoming violent. I have seen people on the gear comitt some of the most violent crimes, everything from armed hold ups and shootings to murder and just about everything below. I've seen addicts do virtually anything to secure their next hit including selling their own families out and violent attacks on Police during arrests.

I've seen heaps of violent stuff on alcohol too, dontbworry about that but this is about heroin. The crime that goes on surrounding that substance would make your skin crawl. Don't be so neive, there's people out there dealing with the stuff and it's associated problems while you sleep. I use be one of them.

These two grotty men were part of the supply chain not a user caught up in its evilness. Their sentence is 10 years overdue, it's time to pay the piper and time to cop it sweet. They only have themselves to blame.

I'm antii alcohol but that has NOTHING to do with it.

Agree 100% neverdie and tired of these hug a criminal and stuff the victim supporters. They knew exactly what they were doing and the consequences. They made a life choice and we're prepared to run the gauntlet. There were plenty of warnings and they are in your face everywhere in Ball and they bared thier naked rear ends at these warnings and at Indonesian authority and society. They signed thier own death warrants.

Z42 will be along shortly to tell us we are wrong and how we know nothing about this. Recently here on TVF a self proclaimed user of this brillant product even threatened me via the forum about how he'd like to track me down and give me a 'hot shot'......for the cuddles and kisses people here that is a 'deadly overdose', is that violent enough for u mr 42. Of course my crime for warranting such action was merely an opposing view.

Heroin is a dangerous evil substance and there's much violence embroiled with its use.

Chooka, you brother know exactly truth

[cookee68]

Disgusting conduct. These lads are reformed & they actually have a lot to give back to society be it in Indonesia or Australia, stuff to actually atone for their crime & continue to repay their debt. For any people to have spent almost 10 years in a hell hole prison & actually come out with their heads held high, only for them to be shot off literally. Makes me sick. Definitely would NEVER set foot in Indonesia now.

Drug war is a farce, causes so many more problems than the actual drugs themselves. So much sympathy for the 2 guys' families

They are scum bags, no matter how you want to dress it up, they knew the law was death if caught, and it was dirty heroine, they deserve it, simple as that

[Scott]

My condolences to his family. They have also been punished.

They obviously failed to guide their children properly as these lads were up to no good not far from the nest.

No way in the world I would of done something like that....my father guided me and if I stepped outside boundaries I knew he'd be straight onto me and look out.......these little sods they didn't just wake up from everything perfect and jump into organising major drug hauls.

My condolences are to some of the people caught at the end of the needles, not all but some.

There isn't a limit for whom you can feel compassion. I spent years working with juvenile offenders and some were just plain bad from day one. A few came from reasonably large families and every other child was doing well. Some of these families did quite well once the budding sociopath was locked up.

I don't know much about these particular perpetrators or their background, but it is a big burden for a family to carry.

[z42]

Complete BS, again. If you've seen heroin addicts before you'd know that more often than not they're very skittish because they stand out like a sore thumb and most beat cops will be on first name terms with them as they offend repeatedly to get money for their fix.

They get lifted often as they tend to engage mostly in petty crime such as shoplifting or house burglary. 'They rarely do muggings because they aren't very good at them. they stick to the crimes that are profitiable for them & where they can shift the goods quickly and easily & basically get out of sight and into somewhere to.consume their drugs. It is disgusting for sure, but certainly not violent crime in most instances.

My sister is a nurse and she deals daily with alcoholics, domestic violence victims (sometimes even followed in by the attacker), victims of drink drivers, and drunken brawlers. She assures me that those who abuse alcohol or who have abused alcohol recently are far far more troublesome to deal with than those who are addicted to opiates and crack cocaine.

On the topic at hand. The heroin dealers should receive hefty punishments because what they deal does mess people's lives up and create massive collateral damage. But they shouldn't be put to death by being shot by a firing squad in some squalid location.

But why should bottle shop owners, bar owners and such like be able to make a living selling equally harmfui products to the public. Both are equally terrible in the wrong hands.

Botom line, Indonesia is not serving justice to anybody here. This reckless line they take will blow up in their faces down the line. That's only gonna hurt Indonesian business interests which is doubly bad

I understand your opposition to the death penalty but I don't understand why you need to compare this back to alcohol and all it's dregery. Alcohol is an evil substance & the violence that comes out of it is often, often severe and ongoing.

However this is about heroin and you are wrong about people on it not becoming violent. I have seen people on the gear comitt some of the most violent crimes, everything from armed hold ups and shootings to murder and just about everything below. I've seen addicts do virtually anything to secure their next hit including selling their own families out and violent attacks on Police during arrests.

I've seen heaps of violent stuff on alcohol too, dontbworry about that but this is about heroin. The crime that goes on surrounding that substance would make your skin crawl. Don't be so neive, there's people out there dealing with the stuff and it's associated problems while you sleep. I use be one of them.

These two grotty men were part of the supply chain not a user caught up in its evilness. Their sentence is 10 years overdue, it's time to pay the piper and time to cop it sweet. They only have themselves to blame.

I'm antii alcohol but that has NOTHING to do with it.

Agree 100% neverdie and tired of these hug a criminal and stuff the victim supporters. They knew exactly what they were doing and the consequences. They made a life choice and we're prepared to run the gauntlet. There were plenty of warnings and they are in your face everywhere in Ball and they bared thier naked rear ends at these warnings and at Indonesian authority and society. They signed thier own death warrants.

Z42 will be along shortly to tell us we are wrong and how we know nothing about this. Recently here on TVF a self proclaimed user of this brillant product even threatened me via the forum about how he'd like to track me down and give me a 'hot shot'......for the cuddles and kisses people here that is a 'deadly overdose', is that violent enough for u mr 42. Of course my crime for warranting such action was merely an opposing view.

Heroin is a dangerous evil substance and there's much violence embroiled with its use.

Chooka, you brother know exactly truth

I will tell you that you're entitled to your opinion and that I think your opinion smacks of somebody who can't think critically and someone who lacks moral fibre.

For the umpteenth iime I am not condoning what they did, In my original post I pointed out that they have reformed and are repaying their deby by helping others. I think its a terrible injustice that they're now going to get a bullet just because the president of Indonesia wants to start sending messages that people know anyways.

You need to read a thread in its entirity (all of you). If you think killing people is OK because they sell a dangerous substance. Why are you discriminating against the substances. They are all poisons and are all equally damaging.

So why exactly is it ok to direct hate and literally wish death on a person selling 1 type of poison while defending a person who makes a living selling another type of poison, it makes zero sense.

And lets not forget a number of nations including the UK, germany, holland, and Switzerland actually prescribe heroin (using taxpayer money) as part of their citizens. It's not spurious to say they're not peddling death, and simply allowing addicts to top up, although it seems unlikely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment

Learn to read all of my posts before putting on personal attacks. Just reflects badly on you if you don't. Cheers

[samran]

Tanya Plibersek gave a great speech in parliament on this yesterday. Her husband could have been one of those kids after being convicted of conspiracy to import in the 1980s. He did his time. Today he is reformed and one of NSWs most respected civil servants.

[chooka]

Complete BS, again. If you've seen heroin addicts before you'd know that more often than not they're very skittish because they stand out like a sore thumb and most beat cops will be on first name terms with them as they offend repeatedly to get money for their fix.
They get lifted often as they tend to engage mostly in petty crime such as shoplifting or house burglary. 'They rarely do muggings because they aren't very good at them. they stick to the crimes that are profitiable for them & where they can shift the goods quickly and easily & basically get out of sight and into somewhere to.consume their drugs. It is disgusting for sure, but certainly not violent crime in most instances.

My sister is a nurse and she deals daily with alcoholics, domestic violence victims (sometimes even followed in by the attacker), victims of drink drivers, and drunken brawlers. She assures me that those who abuse alcohol or who have abused alcohol recently are far far more troublesome to deal with than those who are addicted to opiates and crack cocaine.

On the topic at hand. The heroin dealers should receive hefty punishments because what they deal does mess people's lives up and create massive collateral damage. But they shouldn't be put to death by being shot by a firing squad in some squalid location.
But why should bottle shop owners, bar owners and such like be able to make a living selling equally harmfui products to the public. Both are equally terrible in the wrong hands.

Botom line, Indonesia is not serving justice to anybody here. This reckless line they take will blow up in their faces down the line. That's only gonna hurt Indonesian business interests which is doubly bad

I understand your opposition to the death penalty but I don't understand why you need to compare this back to alcohol and all it's dregery. Alcohol is an evil substance & the violence that comes out of it is often, often severe and ongoing.

However this is about heroin and you are wrong about people on it not becoming violent. I have seen people on the gear comitt some of the most violent crimes, everything from armed hold ups and shootings to murder and just about everything below. I've seen addicts do virtually anything to secure their next hit including selling their own families out and violent attacks on Police during arrests.

I've seen heaps of violent stuff on alcohol too, dontbworry about that but this is about heroin. The crime that goes on surrounding that substance would make your skin crawl. Don't be so neive, there's people out there dealing with the stuff and it's associated problems while you sleep. I use be one of them.

These two grotty men were part of the supply chain not a user caught up in its evilness. Their sentence is 10 years overdue, it's time to pay the piper and time to cop it sweet. They only have themselves to blame.

I'm antii alcohol but that has NOTHING to do with it.

Agree 100% neverdie and tired of these hug a criminal and stuff the victim supporters. They knew exactly what they were doing and the consequences. They made a life choice and we're prepared to run the gauntlet. There were plenty of warnings and they are in your face everywhere in Ball and they bared thier naked rear ends at these warnings and at Indonesian authority and society. They signed thier own death warrants.

Z42 will be along shortly to tell us we are wrong and how we know nothing about this. Recently here on TVF a self proclaimed user of this brillant product even threatened me via the forum about how he'd like to track me down and give me a 'hot shot'......for the cuddles and kisses people here that is a 'deadly overdose', is that violent enough for u mr 42. Of course my crime for warranting such action was merely an opposing view.

Heroin is a dangerous evil substance and there's much violence embroiled with its use.

Chooka, you brother know exactly truth

I will tell you that you're entitled to your opinion and that I think your opinion smacks of somebody who can't think critically and someone who lacks moral fibre.

For the umpteenth iime I am not condoning what they did, In my original post I pointed out that they have reformed and are repaying their deby by helping others. I think its a terrible injustice that they're now going to get a bullet just because the president of Indonesia wants to start sending messages that people know anyways.

You need to read a thread in its entirity (all of you). If you think killing people is OK because they sell a dangerous substance. Why are you discriminating against the substances. They are all poisons and are all equally damaging.
So why exactly is it ok to direct hate and literally wish death on a person selling 1 type of poison while defending a person who makes a living selling another type of poison, it makes zero sense.
And lets not forget a number of nations including the UK, germany, holland, and Switzerland actually prescribe heroin (using taxpayer money) as part of their citizens. It's not spurious to say they're not peddling death, and simply allowing addicts to top up, although it seems unlikely. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroin-assisted_treatment

Learn to read all of my posts before putting on personal attacks. Just reflects badly on you if you don't. Cheers

No the President doesn't want to "Start" sending a message, they have been executing druggies for years, just 5 last week bought the bullet. These idiots knew they would die if caught but gave indonesia the finger. I know if I jump of a 30 storey building I will probably die so I have the brains not to do it not matter how much someone pays me. They are 110% responsible for thier actions and the consequences. The didn't give a brass razor about the person who was going to die from the drugs they wanted to import and neither do all the bleeding hearts who cry for the criminals. They alone soiled thier pants and it is not up to anyone else to clean up thier mess.

[z42]

RE: Baerboxer Post #45

Your posts are usually spot on BB, but not on this. If you think heroin isn't readily available for those who have the inclination to go and buy it you couldn't be more wrong.

Users be it regular or irregular have their dealers they know and trust, these dealers unlike bottle shops never close and sometimes even give regular customers a buy now pay later option because they know they'll be back for more. So in fact for those who choose to use illegal substances the availability is almost never even an issue.

I agree with you that the laws are clear, and the punishments should be expected. But I don't and never will condone death penalties for selling drugs. You're entitled to your opinions (which are usuallly right on the money btw) and I respect that. Laws are laws and in many instances are as ass. Cest la vie

[neverdie]

My condolences to his family. They have also been punished.

They obviously failed to guide their children properly as these lads were up to no good not far from the nest.

No way in the world I would of done something like that....my father guided me and if I stepped outside boundaries I knew he'd be straight onto me and look out.......these little sods they didn't just wake up from everything perfect and jump into organising major drug hauls.

My condolences are to some of the people caught at the end of the needles, not all but some.

There isn't a limit for whom you can feel compassion. I spent years working with juvenile offenders and some were just plain bad from day one. A few came from reasonably large families and every other child was doing well. Some of these families did quite well once the budding sociopath was locked up.

I don't know much about these particular perpetrators or their background, but it is a big burden for a family to carry.

Agreed. DEFINATELY a huge burden, especially for the younger siblings.

I've seen it go both ways with families involved in these situations & some of them bring trouble into them selves via the way they conduct their lives.....then there's the ones that do everything possible for their children but end up in the same position (& every other conbination possible).

Anyway, it's almost game over for them. Let this serve as a warning and reminder to the next idiots. If these boys are lucky, it will be painless and fast, sadly for them it's more likely to be painful and not that quick.