Next government is bound to carry out reforms or faces punishment

[elgordo38]

Who will punish the next government if it strays beyond this requirement

The next government will be on a leash and you know who will yank it from time to time.

[phoenixdoglover]

"Also as a double-check to make sure that reforms are undertaken, the CDC was mulling the idea of setting up a mechanism or an organisation to continue with the reforms after the dissolution of the National Reform Council, said Dr Chuchai."

Well, that "oversight" organization needs a catchy name, doesn't it?

How about "Politburo"?

[elgordo38]

There has never been a true democracy in Thailand - patronage politics and influence from powerful groups and individuals has ensured that for years and years.

These years have also been interspersed with numerous coups whenever some governments have been seen as threat to the elite's grip on the real power. Equally the years have been tainted - and the people beaten into submission - by military led murders and massacres, think Thammasat students, for example, when some groups have protested against various coup installed military governments.

And now - in recent days - we have the latest junta leader saying that if the next civilian government cannot solve the country's 'problems' there may be another coup and - today - the junta announces that it will 'order' the next government to carry out all reform processes with oversight provided by a pre-installed mechanism and 'organization'.

Which in simple English is this: The military elite complex will continue to run things even after an election.

Like I said at the beginning of this post: There has never been a true democracy in Thailand. Nor will there ever be.

The first 8 words of your post is pretty accurate - the rest is just a pile of (fluffy)

It is obvious from past history that Thailand needs a very strong check and balance system to ensure that the government play by the rules and actually represent (all of) the peoples interests (and not their own) and abide by the law - it has been a constant series of power abuses cheating and mass corruption that has plagued past administrations and brought them down all the while creating polarisation division and disparity throughout the country - it has to stop

represent all the peoples interests hmmm?

[Baerboxer]

And people on here actually defend this idiocy.

There are many, many on here who disagreed with the corrupt and disgusting ways of the last government and wanted to see them punished and many of those here do not agree with what is currently going on. The whole thing stinks. Both sides are rotten.

Indeed, Thaksin govt. was by far the least corrupt in the history of Thailand according to Transparency International, with a reduction of poverty never seen before, with all Thai debt paid in advance to IMF (never happened that before with any other country) and with a record growth of int. reserves and an accumulated GDP growth of about 50% in his years in power.

All this was unacepptable to the BKK elites, which love a country where 99% of the people are in absolute misery and desperation and few ones with uniforms have billions. To ensure this, the most powerful (or corrupt ?) institution of the country has to take control and ensure things are back as usual.

So i would say those are not the right people to talk about moralcy and justice. Of course there were many injustices and corruption during Thaksin govt, but who are much worse than him ,are not the right people to make things better. Is this the check and balance you are talking about ? Who is balancing the military absolute power ? They will always do whatever they want whenever they want how they want. Whatever law whatever Constitution it doesn't matter, they will keep staging coups and the reason will always be the same : we are going to build a fair, strong and powerful nation free of corruption. Do you remember Gen. Chatichai govt ? He lead Thailand with a growth of 13% in a year, that time the fastest in the world. Obviously he was ousted by a coup, because he was "corrupt". Serving the people = being corrupt. Before it was Chatichai, than Thaksin, next one will be anyone who will dare to give some crumbles to the people.

Thailand will always be a land of misery, desperation and violence. We can expect 10-15-20 more coups during this century. All the world moves on, Thailand is always stuck in the Middle Age.

" with all Thai debt paid in advance to IMF (never happened that before with any other country)"

How was that repayment financed? Was is it by Thaksin negotiating a new loan with the Singapore government , at a higher interest rate over a longer term? Did he then sell his Shin Corp business to the same Singapore government shortly after. having changed the law so he wouldn't have to pay any tax?

Did Thaksin lend Thai taxpayers' money, without consulting them of course, to the Burmese Military Junta government, at low interest rates on condition they spent it with his company only?

Are the poor farmers richer or poorer now after successive Thaksin government? Has the wealth of average Thai families increased by a similar % to that of the Shin clan during their years in government?

Thailand has no real politicians to represent the poor - and anyone who thinks the Shins are the slightest bit interested in democracy, a fair society or anything apart from enriching themselves and trying to cement their power is deluded.

[smutcakes]

And people on here actually defend this idiocy.

Idiocy is also expecting scumbag thai politicians to be given back something that they have shown they have not had the moral value of in the past and getting a different result. Politicians have been given 80 years to show moral value and failed dismally. Idiocy is hopping on the same old roundabout and getting the same result. Hasn't worked so strengthen the rules on them. Simple logical.

Lest we forget that most of those 'politicians' over 80 years who lacked morals and failed dismally have been military men...........

[h90]

So that's that for any kind of democratic party politics in Thailand for years to come.

From the year 2000 till now I only saw governments that deserve punishment. Best was Surayud, but he didn't do much (that is the good point).

[rickirs]

Even while the Interim Charter under Article 3 provides that "Sovereignty power belongs to all Thais," it is clear that sovereignty power belongs solely and permanently with the military. This provision guarantees that Thailand will not be restored as a democracy but continues as a neo-feudal oligarchy.

This provision also makes it certain that the draft constitution will not be submitted to the Thais electorate for approval. Unlike the referendum that was allowed for the 2007 draft constitution that only gathered 51% approval. With the current draft constitution, 30% approval is more likely. What voter would agree to a constitution that essentially negates the sovereign power of the Thais in their right to determine their own affairs?

NCPO has repeatedly stated a referendum was unnecessary because the Thais were allowed to "participate" in the draft constitution, thereby having their tacit approval already. This provision closes what the NCPO considered a "loophole" in the 2007 Constitution that provided a legislative process to amend the constitution. Of course, the NCPO would retain the right to make any future changes to the constitution without consensus of the Thais.

Thais will not be allowed to decide their own form of government. What does that say about the future of democracy in Thailand? DOA.

[Thai at Heart]

And people on here actually defend this idiocy.

There are many, many on here who disagreed with the corrupt and disgusting ways of the last government and wanted to see them punished and many of those here do not agree with what is currently going on. The whole thing stinks. Both sides are rotten.

You think this bunch now are corruption free?

Yes both sides are rotten, one comes with a gun, another with a ballot.

[Thai at Heart]

And people on here actually defend this idiocy.

Idiocy is also expecting scumbag thai politicians to be given back something that they have shown they have not had the moral value of in the past and getting a different result. Politicians have been given 80 years to show moral value and failed dismally. Idiocy is hopping on the same old roundabout and getting the same result. Hasn't worked so strengthen the rules on them. Simple logical.

The army has been in control for.most of those 80 years. Seems that they aren't very good at writing solid constitutions or ridding anyone of corruption.

Couldn't be that they are corrupt and incomoetent too? Could it?

[h90]

Even while the Interim Charter under Article 3 provides that "Sovereignty power belongs to all Thais," it is clear that sovereignty power belongs solely and permanently with the military. This provision guarantees that Thailand will not be restored as a democracy but continues as a neo-feudal oligarchy.

This provision also makes it certain that the draft constitution will not be submitted to the Thais electorate for approval. Unlike the referendum that was allowed for the 2007 draft constitution that only gathered 51% approval. With the current draft constitution, 30% approval is more likely. What voter would agree to a constitution that essentially negates the sovereign power of the Thais in their right to determine their own affairs?

NCPO has repeatedly stated a referendum was unnecessary because the Thais were allowed to "participate" in the draft constitution, thereby having their tacit approval already. This provision closes what the NCPO considered a "loophole" in the 2007 Constitution that provided a legislative process to amend the constitution. Of course, the NCPO would retain the right to make any future changes to the constitution without consensus of the Thais.

Thais will not be allowed to decide their own form of government. What does that say about the future of democracy in Thailand? DOA.

If there wouldn't be the Thai military Thailand would have something like Marcos, Suharto, Communists or Hun Sen. Always when someone tried to install himself as dictator or got too corrupt the military pressed the big reset button. The 2007 constitution hat 59.3 % approval.

Here in Bangkok office with mostly Southern Thais they would 100 % vote for any constitution Prayut brings without reading it. (also silly). And so would all the South and most of Bangkok.

The 1997 constitution was never vote for, the constitution of my homecountry was not voted for. The American constitution was not voted.

In my opinion every constitution should be vote for, but at the 500-baht-for-my-vote-democracy this is the smallest problem at the moment.

[h90]

And people on here actually defend this idiocy.

There are many, many on here who disagreed with the corrupt and disgusting ways of the last government and wanted to see them punished and many of those here do not agree with what is currently going on. The whole thing stinks. Both sides are rotten.

You think this bunch now are corruption free?

Yes both sides are rotten, one comes with a gun, another with a ballot.

No but the difference is between taking 10% or taking 50 % and changing Thailand into a dictatorship by taking direct control of the police, military and courts.

It is like pickpocket vs. Adolf Hitler....

[berybert]

How long do these reforms have to last ?

I've been living in Bangkok just over a year now and I would hazard a guess at anything the government has implemented so far has had a street life of 2 days.

There just doesn't seem to be the will to make anything stick here.

If there is no personal gain the Thai's have very little interest in anything.

[Alwyn]

So that's that for any kind of democratic party politics in Thailand for years to come.

Democracy was finished anyway thanks to the General and his sponsors. Seems to me they've just written in a clause making Military coups or interventions legal for the future (and now, should anybody query it at a later date)

[bob6130]

Why has no one ever thought that if the Military are so in control of the politics of the country, that most of their soldiers are from the poor ie RED side of life.

Thousands of soldiers v few Elite officers. Problem solved.

[JAG]

And people on here actually defend this idiocy.

There are many, many on here who disagreed with the corrupt and disgusting ways of the last government and wanted to see them punished and many of those here do not agree with what is currently going on. The whole thing stinks. Both sides are rotten.

You think this bunch now are corruption free?

Yes both sides are rotten, one comes with a gun, another with a ballot.

No but the difference is between taking 10% or taking 50 % and changing Thailand into a dictatorship by taking direct control of the police, military and courts.

It is like pickpocket vs. Adolf Hitler....

I may be being particularly dense, and I know that the" D" word is not allowed, but haven't the Junta effectively taken direct control of the police, military and courts?

[khunsiam]

You know what it means if the elected Government don;t carry out the reforms , it means the yellows out and causing havoc again

where would we be without that magic crystal ball of yours eh ?

can you PM me the lotto numbers for next week

even the lotto is fake in the kingdom of make believe

[chooka]

And people on here actually defend this idiocy.

There are many, many on here who disagreed with the corrupt and disgusting ways of the last government and wanted to see them punished and many of those here do not agree with what is currently going on. The whole thing stinks. Both sides are rotten.

You think this bunch now are corruption free?

Yes both sides are rotten, one comes with a gun, another with a ballot.

No but the difference is between taking 10% or taking 50 % and changing Thailand into a dictatorship by taking direct control of the police, military and courts.

It is like pickpocket vs. Adolf Hitler....

I may be being particularly dense, and I know that the" D" word is not allowed, but haven't the Junta effectively taken direct control of the police, military and courts?

But that's different. No Thai government has ever had control of the military, they answer to no government. It's like the guard dog you purchased to protect your property except it's gone rabid and now you can't even get into your own house.

[uppo]

I've been living in Bangkok just over a year now

That's quite evident.

[uppo]

Thaksin govt. was by far the least corrupt in the history of Thailand according to Transparency International

What we do know from Transparency International is that sister Yingluck's government was the MOST CORRUPT in Thailand's history with its worst score ever.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/thailand-slips-global-corruption-survey/

[englishoak]

hmmm

Edited February 15, 2015 by englishoak

[samii]

As ever the Thai military will continue with their primary function which is not to be ready for the defence of the country but to monitor politics and politicians and be ready to stage a coup having issued the mandatory denials that such a thing couldn't be further from the minds of the top brass.

And who is going to punish the junta? I am quite sure, because experiences from other countries, if the Junta continues run the same game, in the future they will be put aside, maybe jail as well. Thailand has fallen into the same kind of auctoritian rule that South-American countries fell in 70'.

Which only led to more anger and hate and which made reconciliation impossible (and strengthened communist movement). I do not really care who runs the next elected government (they all do at least some good), but I want that all people have their say as a vote

[metisdead]

NOTICE TO MEMBERS POSTING IN THAILAND NEWS

Please use discretion in your references to the government. Phrases which can be considered as anti-coup will be removed. Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed.

[rubl]

As ever the Thai military will continue with their primary function which is not to be ready for the defence of the country but to monitor politics and politicians and be ready to stage a coup having issued the mandatory denials that such a thing couldn't be further from the minds of the top brass.

And who is going to punish the junta? I am quite sure, because experiences from other countries, if the Junta continues run the same game, in the future they will be put aside, maybe jail as well. Thailand has fallen into the same kind of auctoritian rule that South-American countries fell in 70'.

Which only led to more anger and hate and which made reconciliation impossible (and strengthened communist movement). I do not really care who runs the next elected government (they all do at least some good), but I want that all people have their say as a vote

Your story seems to be built on one a question and one 'if'. A bit shaky grounds especially when you do not care who runs the next elected government. According to some that could be either Thaksin or the NCPO.

[binjalin]

As ever the Thai military will continue with their primary function which is not to be ready for the defence of the country but to monitor politics and politicians and be ready to stage a coup having issued the mandatory denials that such a thing couldn't be further from the minds of the top brass.

And who is going to punish the junta? I am quite sure, because experiences from other countries, if the Junta continues run the same game, in the future they will be put aside, maybe jail as well. Thailand has fallen into the same kind of auctoritian rule that South-American countries fell in 70'.

Which only led to more anger and hate and which made reconciliation impossible (and strengthened communist movement). I do not really care who runs the next elected government (they all do at least some good), but I want that all people have their say as a vote

the answer is 'no one' because they are above the law and democracy and, in fact, are a law unto themselves

how many coups now? 20? is that in the Guinness Book of Records? of COURSE 'this one is different'

[uppo]

how many coups now? 20? is that in the Guinness Book of Records?

phffftt... not even close.

Bolivia has experienced more than 150 coups or attempted coups.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/06/03/world/army-unrest-stirs-bolivia-the-land-of-coups.html

[samii]

As ever the Thai military will continue with their primary function which is not to be ready for the defence of the country but to monitor politics and politicians and be ready to stage a coup having issued the mandatory denials that such a thing couldn't be further from the minds of the top brass.

And who is going to punish the junta? I am quite sure, because experiences from other countries, if the Junta continues run the same game, in the future they will be put aside, maybe jail as well. Thailand has fallen into the same kind of auctoritian rule that South-American countries fell in 70'.

Which only led to more anger and hate and which made reconciliation impossible (and strengthened communist movement). I do not really care who runs the next elected government (they all do at least some good), but I want that all people have their say as a vote

Your story seems to be built on one a question and one 'if'. A bit shaky grounds especially when you do not care who runs the next elected government. According to some that could be either Thaksin or the NCPO.

Nope it is built on the half sentence "I want that all people have their say as a vote". Simple as that

[rubl]

As ever the Thai military will continue with their primary function which is not to be ready for the defence of the country but to monitor politics and politicians and be ready to stage a coup having issued the mandatory denials that such a thing couldn't be further from the minds of the top brass.

And who is going to punish the junta? I am quite sure, because experiences from other countries, if the Junta continues run the same game, in the future they will be put aside, maybe jail as well. Thailand has fallen into the same kind of auctoritian rule that South-American countries fell in 70'.

Which only led to more anger and hate and which made reconciliation impossible (and strengthened communist movement). I do not really care who runs the next elected government (they all do at least some good), but I want that all people have their say as a vote

Your story seems to be built on one a question and one 'if'. A bit shaky grounds especially when you do not care who runs the next elected government. According to some that could be either Thaksin or the NCPO.

Nope it is built on the half sentence "I want that all people have their say as a vote". Simple as that

You worked your way back as that's the last part of your story.

Also 'have your say as vote" doesn't seem to have much to do with 'punishing the junta', or assuming that IF the junta continues they will be put aside and maybe jail.

Also lots of people care who runs the government. Some don't want that criminal fugitive involved in elections, cabinets and government. Strange, isn't it? Even in Italy some don't want Sylvio Berlusconi back, even if he could stand again.

[rubl]

As ever the Thai military will continue with their primary function which is not to be ready for the defence of the country but to monitor politics and politicians and be ready to stage a coup having issued the mandatory denials that such a thing couldn't be further from the minds of the top brass.

And who is going to punish the junta? I am quite sure, because experiences from other countries, if the Junta continues run the same game, in the future they will be put aside, maybe jail as well. Thailand has fallen into the same kind of auctoritian rule that South-American countries fell in 70'.

Which only led to more anger and hate and which made reconciliation impossible (and strengthened communist movement). I do not really care who runs the next elected government (they all do at least some good), but I want that all people have their say as a vote

the answer is 'no one' because they are above the law and democracy and, in fact, are a law unto themselves

how many coups now? 20? is that in the Guinness Book of Records? of COURSE 'this one is different'

Is this the topic about reconciliation? The 'be friendly with Thaksin' day?

So why should the junta be punished?

Edited February 16, 2015 by rubl

[samii]

As ever the Thai military will continue with their primary function which is not to be ready for the defence of the country but to monitor politics and politicians and be ready to stage a coup having issued the mandatory denials that such a thing couldn't be further from the minds of the top brass.

And who is going to punish the junta? I am quite sure, because experiences from other countries, if the Junta continues run the same game, in the future they will be put aside, maybe jail as well. Thailand has fallen into the same kind of auctoritian rule that South-American countries fell in 70'.

Which only led to more anger and hate and which made reconciliation impossible (and strengthened communist movement). I do not really care who runs the next elected government (they all do at least some good), but I want that all people have their say as a vote

Your story seems to be built on one a question and one 'if'. A bit shaky grounds especially when you do not care who runs the next elected government. According to some that could be either Thaksin or the NCPO.

Nope it is built on the half sentence "I want that all people have their say as a vote". Simple as that

You worked your way back as that's the last part of your story.

Also 'have your say as vote" doesn't seem to have much to do with 'punishing the junta', or assuming that IF the junta continues they will be put aside and maybe jail.

Also lots of people care who runs the government. Some don't want that criminal fugitive involved in elections, cabinets and government. Strange, isn't it? Even in Italy some don't want Sylvio Berlusconi back, even if he could stand

So he is away. What's the problem?

[rubl]

Your story seems to be built on one a question and one 'if'. A bit shaky grounds especially when you do not care who runs the next elected government. According to some that could be either Thaksin or the NCPO.

Nope it is built on the half sentence "I want that all people have their say as a vote". Simple as that

You worked your way back as that's the last part of your story.

Also 'have your say as vote" doesn't seem to have much to do with 'punishing the junta', or assuming that IF the junta continues they will be put aside and maybe jail.

Also lots of people care who runs the government. Some don't want that criminal fugitive involved in elections, cabinets and government. Strange, isn't it? Even in Italy some don't want Sylvio Berlusconi back, even if he could stand

So he is away. What's the problem?

Did I say there was a problem? It's you went from a last "vote" backwards to punishing, assumptions, etc., etc.

Mind you as that criminal fugitive still influences Thai politics (some robin just told me) there is a problem which needs to be eradicated as UDD leader turned politician suggested to be a democratic manner.