Defibrillators being placed at key locations

[FireMedic]

How about they just teach basic CPR in schools first. I don´t think I want some idiot second guessing and using a defib machine on me without some medical and instrument training. You will end up having heart burn being treated with them and it will end up stopping your heart.

This is out of their comprehension, I had a GF that didn´t even know we had been to the moon, her concept of the moon was it showed you when to plant the rice !!

Not their fault, just a complete lack of education. Hold him down I will get the defibrillator....

I have done this dozens and dozens and dozens of times all around Thailand. This was a school in Chumpon. 1000 kids did CPR with AED in 2 days. We are working very hard to get this message out. Chumpon CPR1.jpg

I´ts a worry, I was driving past an accident where a (Thai) guy ran up the back of a scooter with a side car going over a hill. There was a cop standing next to the accident directing traffic around it, waiting for an ¨Ambulance¨. I checked the one guy who was pretty stufed up, he was breathing OK so I put him in the recovery position, before he choked on his own body fluids. Then I noticed another guy lying off the road in the bushes. I checked him and managed to get him on the road and put him in the recovery position. Meanwhile, the cop directed traffic !! I left as son as the ambulance arrived, they were still both breathing.....

It is good to see someone is making an effort with the CPR training !! But 1000 kids in 2 days ? It takes us 5 days on an oil rig with a crew of 100 or so !!! But something positive is better than nothing, I guess, but sometimes a little knowledge can be more dangerous.

We work very closely with BDMS hospitals and Police General Hospital to teach the classes.

[Keesters]

Will they be regularly tested and replaced if found faulty?

[FireMedic]

Will they be regularly tested and replaced if found faulty?

Zoll AEDs have 5 year warranties plus 2 more years if they are registered online. Batteries and pads are good for 5 years as well. They do internal maintenance checks weekly and will alert if there is an issue, usually an overdue battery or expired pads.

[Keesters]

Will they be regularly tested and replaced if found faulty?

Zoll AEDs have 5 year warranties plus 2 more years if they are registered online. Batteries and pads are good for 5 years as well. They do internal maintenance checks weekly and will alert if there is an issue, usually an overdue battery or expired pads.

Who is "they"? The same people who check buildings for fire regulation compliance maybe!

[FireMedic]

Will they be regularly tested and replaced if found faulty?

Zoll AEDs have 5 year warranties plus 2 more years if they are registered online. Batteries and pads are good for 5 years as well. They do internal maintenance checks weekly and will alert if there is an issue, usually an overdue battery or expired pads.

Who is "they"? The same people who check buildings for fire regulation compliance maybe!

No of course not....Zoll AEDS have internal maintenance checks every week.

[Keesters]

Will they be regularly tested and replaced if found faulty?

Zoll AEDs have 5 year warranties plus 2 more years if they are registered online. Batteries and pads are good for 5 years as well. They do internal maintenance checks weekly and will alert if there is an issue, usually an overdue battery or expired pads.

Who is "they"? The same people who check buildings for fire regulation compliance maybe!

No of course not....Zoll AEDS have internal maintenance checks every week.

And will there be anybody who takes notice of these internal checks? Which takes me back to my original question "will they be replaced if found faulty"

[rickirs]

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The placing of defibrillators in key places such as shopping centres, airports , bus stations etc are great so long as personal or people who have to use them are First Aid qualified, to do so , I know how to use one and you can get a nasty electric shock if you don't follow the instructions which are voice activated and pretty straight forward , you don't have to be Einstein to work one , however my main cause for worry is maintenance and reliability and how long will it be before they turn up at the night market. width=32 alt=coffee1.gif>

Voice activated? Would that be Thai, english, or what? I can assure you Einstein didn't speak Thai.

[FireMedic]

If there is something faulty within the warranty time yes, they would be replaced. Who checks them??? Depends where they go and at what location. At Suvarnabhumi you will find them near the information desks. Airport staff will check them. At MRT stations, MRT Rescue staff are responsible for the use. Whoever buys them has designated staff responsible for the use and care.

[FireMedic]

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The placing of defibrillators in key places such as shopping centres, airports , bus stations etc are great so long as personal or people who have to use them are First Aid qualified, to do so , I know how to use one and you can get a nasty electric shock if you don't follow the instructions which are voice activated and pretty straight forward , you don't have to be Einstein to work one , however my main cause for worry is maintenance and reliability and how long will it be before they turn up at the night market. width=32 alt=coffee1.gif>

Voice activated? Would that be Thai, english, or what? I can assure you Einstein didn't speak Thai.

Both. Zoll AEDs in Thailand are both English and in Thai. When you order it, you specify which version you want. All the ones sold to Thai government agencies are in Thai obviously.

[Keesters]

If there is something faulty within the warranty time yes, they would be replaced. Who checks them??? Depends where they go and at what location. At Suvarnabhumi you will find them near the information desks. Airport staff will check them. At MRT stations, MRT Rescue staff are responsible for the use. Whoever buys them has designated staff responsible for the use and care.

I'll believe it only when I see it. Thailand does not have a very good record of carrying out equipment checks. Millions spent on pedestrian controlled crossings in Pattaya which are all, but one or two, inoperative is just one example of Thailand's check and repair failures.

[Loles]

It's an extremely great idea if you teach people how to use it. With out this youths will use it on their enemies ...

[chrisinth]

As an exercise of knowledge, it would be an interesting survey to see how many people know the correct method of administering CPR before advancing to AED devices being available for people to play with.

I am all for life saving and the availability of equipment to use as necessary. What I would have concern with is the incorrect use of said equipment.

Everyone knows how to administer CPR, correct ratios of inflation and compression, right?

[FireMedic]

As an exercise of knowledge, it would be an interesting survey to see how many people know the correct method of administering CPR before advancing to AED devices being available for people to play with.

I am all for life saving and the availability of equipment to use as necessary. What I would have concern with is the incorrect use of said equipment.

Everyone knows how to administer CPR, correct ratios of inflation and compression, right?

Again, Zoll AEDs have audible and visual feedback systems for chest compressions. A loud metronome sounds at a rate of 100 beats per minute. If your chest compressions aren't deep enough to meet AHA Guidelines, it tells you "PUSH HARDER". If you are doing both proper rate and depth compressions it says "GOOD COMPRESSIONS". On the screen of the AED will show a depth gauge as well.

[soalbundy]

I thought it was a sex toy

[RigPig]

How about they just teach basic CPR in schools first. I don´t think I want some idiot second guessing and using a defib machine on me without some medical and instrument training. You will end up having heart burn being treated with them and it will end up stopping your heart.

This is out of their comprehension, I had a GF that didn´t even know we had been to the moon, her concept of the moon was it showed you when to plant the rice !!

Not their fault, just a complete lack of education. Hold him down I will get the defibrillator....

I have done this dozens and dozens and dozens of times all around Thailand. This was a school in Chumpon. 1000 kids did CPR with AED in 2 days. We are working very hard to get this message out. Chumpon CPR1.jpg

I´ts a worry, I was driving past an accident where a (Thai) guy ran up the back of a scooter with a side car going over a hill. There was a cop standing next to the accident directing traffic around it, waiting for an ¨Ambulance¨. I checked the one guy who was pretty stufed up, he was breathing OK so I put him in the recovery position, before he choked on his own body fluids. Then I noticed another guy lying off the road in the bushes. I checked him and managed to get him on the road and put him in the recovery position. Meanwhile, the cop directed traffic !! I left as son as the ambulance arrived, they were still both breathing.....

It is good to see someone is making an effort with the CPR training !! But 1000 kids in 2 days ? It takes us 5 days on an oil rig with a crew of 100 or so !!! But something positive is better than nothing, I guess, but sometimes a little knowledge can be more dangerous.

We work very closely with BDMS hospitals and Police General Hospital to teach the classes.

Man I have nothing but ADMIRATION for you !!! Your cup is obviously 3/4 full, and I guess even if your success rate is low I admire your efforts, your heart is obviously in the right place !!

The cartoon is pretty much on the right wave length it will probably hold their attention until the end.

However having been here for 11 years I can´t help being sceptical. Most of the Thais I have driven with think the lines on the road are to make them suaay. And I can´t help wondering if a little knowledge and not understanding completely could be dangerous?

I have to be honest although I am required to do an ¨advanced¨ first aid cert, and because of my job (electrician) be proficient in CPR I have never had anything to do with defibrillators. But my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that in the wrong hands they can be a risk to the ¨patient¨.

I did a CPR course in the Ukraine when I was there and sat through the course, which was give by a Russian doctor, needless to say I couldn´t understand a word. Everyone had to do the CPR on a dummy (which looked like it came off the Ark) which was hooked up to a computer. Now I must stress that I hadn´t done CPR for 5 years at that stage, which is why I was keen and sat in on the course. At the end of my stint on the dummy the Russian doctor started saying something to the translator who told me NO ONE had done it better in the whole time they had been using the dummy !!! That I found SCARY.

I can´t help thinking this could have ALL the right intentions but end up being a disaster long term. How can you be competent in using a defib when you can´t give (or understand) CPR?

I noticed the cartoon didn´t show anything to do with mouth to mouth either, so what will they do when the patient is not breathing?

My other concern is that as admirable as this is performing this in real life (and I have had to) is not like watching a cartoon, if there is no practical to this then I can´t help thinking it is pointless.

But GOOD LUCK and I commend you for your efforts regardless.

[FireMedic]

But my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that in the wrong hands they can be a risk to the ¨patient¨.

Any AED will only shock Vfib and Vtach, which are non-perfusing rhythms (mostly dead at this point) . I suppose they can be a risk if someone were to use it as a hammer and smash the person's head in.......

So I break it down like this. Studies show that only 50% of collapsed patients will be in a shockable rhythm when an AED is placed. However, all collapsed pulseless/apneic patients need CPR. So Zoll AEDs have the shocks available as well as Real CPR Help to coach bystanders with correct CPR.

Edited February 15, 2015 by FireMedic

[RigPig]

I thought it was a sex toy

Hahaha wishful thinking, but I like your demener, but i would rather be the giver than the receiver in this case !! I have this little remote control device that....

But that´s off topic haha

[issanaus]

But my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that in the wrong hands they can be a risk to the ¨patient¨.

Any AED will only shock Vfib and Vtach, which are non-perfusing rhythms (mostly dead at this point) . I suppose they can be a risk if someone were to use it as a hammer and smash the person's head in.......

So I break it down like this. Studies show that only 50% of collapsed patients will be in a shockable rhythm when an AED is placed. However, all collapsed pulseless/apneic patients need CPR. So Zoll AEDs have the shocks available as well as Real CPR Help to coach bystanders with correct CPR.

Thank you for doing the work that you are doing.

But you might get a more positive response from some TVF members if you tell them that most AED's have bra cutters included in the kit

[FireMedic]

But my understanding (and please correct me if I am wrong) is that in the wrong hands they can be a risk to the ¨patient¨.

Any AED will only shock Vfib and Vtach, which are non-perfusing rhythms (mostly dead at this point) . I suppose they can be a risk if someone were to use it as a hammer and smash the person's head in.......

So I break it down like this. Studies show that only 50% of collapsed patients will be in a shockable rhythm when an AED is placed. However, all collapsed pulseless/apneic patients need CPR. So Zoll AEDs have the shocks available as well as Real CPR Help to coach bystanders with correct CPR.

Thank you for doing the work that you are doing.

But you might get a more positive response from some TVF members if you tell them that most AED's have bra cutters included in the kit

I'm sorry to say they don't have a bra cutter...... Zoll's come with a disposable razor........just in case you need one.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Instead of fitting the actual first responder vehicles with them, they will place them in various locations so that if you are lucky enough to drop over near one, a passing Somchai can pick it up and basically finish you off if he doesn't kill himself accidentally first, while waiting on the actual first responders to arrive.

I suppose it is better than nothing.

Countdown until it is used as a weapon.

Yeah just what the rivaling technical school students need.. A free lethal weapon.

[Whyamiandwhatamidoinghere]

Give me your money or I will difibulate your ass!

[BigBadGeordie]

A very good friend of mine once said (ok more than once)....

"Blue Hearts don't start, if your wife does not know CPR she is trying to kill you"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Chamberlain

[Tokay]

a passing Somchai can pick it up and basically finish you off if he doesn't kill himself accidentally first

Countdown until it is used as a weapon.

You should familiarize yourself with the equipment first before unknowingly assigning it characteristics that don't exist.

Both of your assertions are wrong.

Thank you, you just proved my point perfectly.

If at least two members here (probably most here) don't know how they work, how on this earth do they expect the locals or tourists passing by to know how they work?

In other words, maybe 1% of the people who happen to be within a 1km zone from one of these machines will know how to operate it.

[Tokay]

How about they just teach basic CPR in schools first. I don´t think I want some idiot second guessing and using a defib machine on me without some medical and instrument training. You will end up having heart burn being treated with them and it will end up stopping your heart.

This is out of their comprehension, I had a GF that didn´t even know we had been to the moon, her concept of the moon was it showed you when to plant the rice !!

Not their fault, just a complete lack of education. Hold him down I will get the defibrillator....

I have done this dozens and dozens and dozens of times all around Thailand. This was a school in Chumpon. 1000 kids did CPR with AED in 2 days. We are working very hard to get this message out. Chumpon CPR1.jpg

1) Thank you.

2) Please work harder. Not only children need to know this information, adults do as well, foreign and local. What you are doing will actually save lives.

[uppo]

a passing Somchai can pick it up and basically finish you off if he doesn't kill himself accidentally first

Countdown until it is used as a weapon.

You should familiarize yourself with the equipment first before unknowingly assigning it characteristics that don't exist.

Both of your assertions are wrong.

Thank you, you just proved my point perfectly.

If at least two members here (probably most here) don't know how they work, how on this earth do they expect the locals or tourists passing by to know how they work?

They find someone nearby who is literate and can read simply directions and can understand simple verbal directions from the machine while the machine determines the appropriate treatment (eg. to defibrilliate or not).

To repeat again to you, you should familiarize yourself with the basics of the equipment first before continually making wrong presumptions.

Edited February 15, 2015 by uppo

[outboard]

a passing Somchai can pick it up and basically finish you off if he doesn't kill himself accidentally first

Countdown until it is used as a weapon.

You should familiarize yourself with the equipment first before unknowingly assigning it characteristics that don't exist.

Both of your assertions are wrong.

Thank you, you just proved my point perfectly.

If at least two members here (probably most here) don't know how they work, how on this earth do they expect the locals or tourists passing by to know how they work?

In other words, maybe 1% of the people who happen to be within a 1km zone from one of these machines will know how to operate it.

at least 50% of people will be able to figure out how to use one on their first encounter of them, the CPR component will be harder but at least these machines guide you through that and they defiantly save lives and doing something has got to be better then doing nothing.

very simply you turn on the machine and it literally talks you through what to do, for anyone that wants to be better equipped to use them google AED online training

[hawker9000]

A question for the experts:

Is it true that tasers can be used as defibrillators? (Not intended as a joke; serious question.)

[Tokay]

a passing Somchai can pick it up and basically finish you off if he doesn't kill himself accidentally first

Countdown until it is used as a weapon.

You should familiarize yourself with the equipment first before unknowingly assigning it characteristics that don't exist.

Both of your assertions are wrong.

Thank you, you just proved my point perfectly.

If at least two members here (probably most here) don't know how they work, how on this earth do they expect the locals or tourists passing by to know how they work?

They find someone nearby who is literate and can read simply directions and can understand simple verbal directions from the machine while the machine determines the appropriate treatment (eg. to defibrilliate or not).

Perhaps you and I don't live in the same Thailand.

Here is what will happen, everyone will stand around and wait for the first responders to get there. No one is going to touch the person. They will stand there and let them die before they touch them. Thais simply don't get involved, and no one wants to have fingers pointed at them for possibly being the person who killed them. Of course, unless you are the police or a taxi driver, then you just drag the body to the side of the road so traffic can pass.

I just watched a couple of youtube videos on how to use them. Seems simple enough, but unless the person is my friend or family, I also wouldn't use it on someone here (a local). I would rather let them die than end up getting sued by a Thai family claiming I am at fault for their death. On the flip side, they are not going to help anyone either, so at the end of the day, it's just another day in Thailand.

But lets assume someone there wants to be a hero, what language will the instructions be written in, Mong or Burmese perhaps, or only Thai or English? If it speaks, like the ones I saw on youtube do, what language will it speak?

The only way this will work is if several people around eachmachine are trained on how to use it and are ensured they will be cleared of anything that may happen to the person, be it their fault or not. But hoping you will find someone literate and willing during a moment of crisis... pipe dream. Otherwise, this is another failed project. A project with the best of intentions, but people simply are not going to use such a device unless they already know how to use it AND know there will be no legal recourse, or ghost haunting them, should the person die anyway.

[theslime]

they have drone defibrillators with voice command, soon drone ambulances for a single person?

[soalbundy]

Will they be regularly tested and replaced if found faulty?

Zoll AEDs have 5 year warranties plus 2 more years if they are registered online. Batteries and pads are good for 5 years as well. They do internal maintenance checks weekly and will alert if there is an issue, usually an overdue battery or expired pads.

is it difficult to nick the batteries