Analyzing the Bangkok Condo Market

[ldnguy]

Thailand needs to act as Bangkok sinks faster

One of the really good things about Thailand is the knowledge that one day Bangkok will sink into the mud and be gone forever.

Bangkok will still be here long after we've all gone forever. Do you seriously believe those stories that Bangkok will sink and disappear. Makes good reading but has no basis in fact. A few areas my flood but there's no hope whatsoever of Bangkok disappearing. When I first came here around 6 years ago, "experts" were saying it would be flooded in 7 years. The latest "experts" are now saying 10-20 years. So they're already backtracking. Bangkok can easily build defenses to protect the city, and that is what it will do eventually.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I really want to buy in Bangkok. Let's say I have 100k to spend (3mb) and I rent a unit conservatively for 12k (this is indeed very conservative) it is still a much better return than money sitting in my Canadian bank account with earns me 2000b a month on 100k.

Now there are 2 things that really is putting me off

Hideous maintenance. Even new expensive developments look like crap after 10 years.

Lack of Chinese buyers. Sure, Chinese tourists love to come here en masse, but I don't see them buying real estate. They go to established countries, UK/US/Canada/Australia

Another thing. Prices indeed go up, but most units do not sell.

[mngmn]

Is it reasonable to compare a bank deposit in Canada with a real estate investment in Thailand.

What about comparing real estate with real estate. I know my 100k in Australian real estate is generating far more income and growth than it would in Thailand.

Also I have a chance of selling if I need to. Check out the power poles they have become festooned with for sale signs over the last year or so. But looks like no one is buying. Don't expect to buy at discount either. Most would literally rather die than sell at a loss.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Is it reasonable to compare a bank deposit in Canada with a real estate investment in Thailand.

What about comparing real estate with real estate. I know my 100k in Australian real estate is generating far more income and growth than it would in Thailand.

Also I have a chance of selling if I need to. Check out the power poles they have become festooned with for sale signs over the last year or so. But looks like no one is buying. Don't expect to buy at discount either. Most would literally rather die than sell at a loss.

I am comparing it this way because for 100k I can't buy a tolied bowl, let alone real estate in Canada.

I though Australia was even more expensive?

[mngmn]

You could look at a managed real estate fund. Or use your 100k to borrow and rent. Should self fund and then at the end of ten years you can realise a profit instead of struggling to pay the ever increasing fees and charges on a property you supposedly own.

But each to their own.

[ldnguy]

I really want to buy in Bangkok. Let's say I have 100k to spend (3mb) and I rent a unit conservatively for 12k (this is indeed very conservative) it is still a much better return than money sitting in my Canadian bank account with earns me 2000b a month on 100k.

Now there are 2 things that really is putting me off

Hideous maintenance. Even new expensive developments look like crap after 10 years.

Lack of Chinese buyers. Sure, Chinese tourists love to come here en masse, but I don't see them buying real estate. They go to established countries, UK/US/Canada/Australia

Another thing. Prices indeed go up, but most units do not sell.

Buy a unit that has good maintenance. There are quite a few around. You need to buy in a condo block that's popular with Thais that have money and care about their property. I've lived in condo units that are 8-10 years old and that have been very well maintained.

Why do you need Chinese buyers? Buy to live in.

Also, units do sell in popular buildings. It's up to you to do the research and find them. I don't think there are many but they certainly do exists.

Edited May 22, 2015 by ldnguy

[ldnguy]

Is it reasonable to compare a bank deposit in Canada with a real estate investment in Thailand.

What about comparing real estate with real estate. I know my 100k in Australian real estate is generating far more income and growth than it would in Thailand.

Also I have a chance of selling if I need to. Check out the power poles they have become festooned with for sale signs over the last year or so. But looks like no one is buying. Don't expect to buy at discount either. Most would literally rather die than sell at a loss.

Buy from a farang, as they are more likely to drop the price. Quite a lot sometimes, especially if they want to leave the country.

[ldnguy]

You could look at a managed real estate fund. Or use your 100k to borrow and rent. Should self fund and then at the end of ten years you can realise a profit instead of struggling to pay the ever increasing fees and charges on a property you supposedly own.

But each to their own.

With a managed fund, most of he profit ends up being paid to the managers. Better to buy your own property than a fund.

[ldnguy]

Is it reasonable to compare a bank deposit in Canada with a real estate investment in Thailand.

What about comparing real estate with real estate. I know my 100k in Australian real estate is generating far more income and growth than it would in Thailand.

Also I have a chance of selling if I need to. Check out the power poles they have become festooned with for sale signs over the last year or so. But looks like no one is buying. Don't expect to buy at discount either. Most would literally rather die than sell at a loss.

What area do you live? I haven't seen any power poles with for sale signs. So what you;re saying may be true in your area but not in all areas and not in all buildings. Some buildings are popular and it's fairly easy to sell, while most buildings seem to be difficult or impossible to sell in. That's why you got the saying... location, location, location. Location doesn't mean Bangkok. It means one particular building. On Nut is probably the worst location but that's where many farangs seem to buy. Some great locations don't have hardly any farangs but condos sell. Farangs generally have no idea and are too lazy to put in the effort to find out. You get a few that do find these condos but they don't buy because they complain that the staff don't speak English. So farangs end up buying the worst condos just because the sales people and staff speak English. Learn some Thai and you'll find some good places if you put the work in. But most people don't like doing a bit of hard work.

[mngmn]

Yes managed funds charge management fees. You need to do some research to find a good fund. In OP's case he is looking for around 5% return based on his figures 12,000 baht month on 2.7 million baht (CAD$ 100k). Many funds can match this leaving the OP's money available if he should need it. You can't sell 10% of a condo but you can withdraw 10% from a managed fund. Don't forget that condos have management fees as well.

Good buildings can turn bad, neighbours can be a pain and management fees can become excessive. Renting gives you the flexibility to move.

Agree that speaking Thai is huge benefit for almost anything you want to do in Thailand. Imagine a Thai who didn't speak a word of English going to Canada to buy property, start a business, find a wife...

Getting a bargain price from another Farang, desperate to sell, so they can leave the country surely should sound at least a faint warning bell?

Can't comment on the general stupidity and laziness of Falangs...

[blackcab]

I really want to buy in Bangkok. Let's say I have 100k to spend (3mb) and I rent a unit conservatively for 12k (this is indeed very conservative) it is still a much better return than money sitting in my Canadian bank account with earns me 2000b a month on 100k.

Now there are 2 things that really is putting me off

Hideous maintenance. Even new expensive developments look like crap after 10 years.

Lack of Chinese buyers. Sure, Chinese tourists love to come here en masse, but I don't see them buying real estate. They go to established countries, UK/US/Canada/Australia

Another thing. Prices indeed go up, but most units do not sell.

The difference is you can take your money out of the bank any time you choose, with little or no notice.

Try doing that with a second hand condo in Thailand.

Try asking foreign owners of condos that are for sale what their lowest price would be for a cash sale completed within 24 hours of them providing the debt free letter from the JPM.

You would probably get some interesting answers.

[coulson]

A time-lapse photo over say a month would show which rooms in a condo ever have the lights turned on.

My guess for On Nut area would be around 40% vacant.

Good point, Im sure all will not go belly up too soon, but if it did then what is in it for the locals? are they gonna buy, or rent these funky units in a not so hip part of town? And this will be more like 60% if you go as far as Bang Na in a couple of years.

What really gives me the sh1ts about this whole development 'in isolation' theme and all of these ghost owned condo inevestments is how the Authorities fail to stick more conditions on the developers approvals. If they could even look at any of these projects with a hint of community integration it could make a small but meanginful difference.

What is happening now at the current rate is faster the detriment of suburban Bangkok from a planning perspective. The developers playing up to their market and churning out copious amounts of the same thing with no consideration to improving the surrounding area. High walls, security, a starbucks, mcdonalds, mini mart, art studio and botox clinic/ dentist, all so you never need to leave home and feel unsafe (where you never wanted to really live as it was a financial investment). In the meantime, the guy living on the neighbouring canal now has to cross the road to get to the market, since the land has been so over utilized there is now a boom gate and a punk with a whistle on a power trip sending him off.

* And don't even want to start on the sh1tty QA/QC on some of these new builds

Edited May 25, 2015 by coulson

[coulson]

I really want to buy in Bangkok. Let's say I have 100k to spend (3mb) and I rent a unit conservatively for 12k (this is indeed very conservative) it is still a much better return than money sitting in my Canadian bank account with earns me 2000b a month on 100k.

Now there are 2 things that really is putting me off

Hideous maintenance. Even new expensive developments look like crap after 10 years.

Lack of Chinese buyers. Sure, Chinese tourists love to come here en masse, but I don't see them buying real estate. They go to established countries, UK/US/Canada/Australia

Another thing. Prices indeed go up, but most units do not sell.

New expensive developments have the worst maintenance issues, let alone fees.

Look into the local market if you want to rent, why not hedge bets and aim for a studio to test the water, without having to throw everything you have into it. Treat whatever rent you get back as pocket money, in the end it will have earned you more in your Canadian bank account.

[ldnguy]

I really want to buy in Bangkok. Let's say I have 100k to spend (3mb) and I rent a unit conservatively for 12k (this is indeed very conservative) it is still a much better return than money sitting in my Canadian bank account with earns me 2000b a month on 100k.

Now there are 2 things that really is putting me off

Hideous maintenance. Even new expensive developments look like crap after 10 years.

Lack of Chinese buyers. Sure, Chinese tourists love to come here en masse, but I don't see them buying real estate. They go to established countries, UK/US/Canada/Australia

Another thing. Prices indeed go up, but most units do not sell.

The difference is you can take your money out of the bank any time you choose, with little or no notice.

Try doing that with a second hand condo in Thailand.

Try asking foreign owners of condos that are for sale what their lowest price would be for a cash sale completed within 24 hours of them providing the debt free letter from the JPM.

You would probably get some interesting answers.

It's true that you can take money out of the bank anytime (unless your bank goes bust or the government confiscates your money like they did in Cypress), but I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to spend all your money on a condo and not have any cash left over. If a condo is an investment it would usually be a small part of your portfolio, not 100% of it. So I don't think it's an either/or situation as you seem to be suggesting.

[ldnguy]

Yes managed funds charge management fees. You need to do some research to find a good fund. In OP's case he is looking for around 5% return based on his figures 12,000 baht month on 2.7 million baht (CAD$ 100k). Many funds can match this leaving the OP's money available if he should need it. You can't sell 10% of a condo but you can withdraw 10% from a managed fund. Don't forget that condos have management fees as well.

Good buildings can turn bad, neighbours can be a pain and management fees can become excessive. Renting gives you the flexibility to move.

Agree that speaking Thai is huge benefit for almost anything you want to do in Thailand. Imagine a Thai who didn't speak a word of English going to Canada to buy property, start a business, find a wife...

Getting a bargain price from another Farang, desperate to sell, so they can leave the country surely should sound at least a faint warning bell?

Can't comment on the general stupidity and laziness of Falangs...

I'am assuming (probably wrongly) that someone buying a condo for an investment would be buying it for the longer-term and not need access to the cash. So I don't think there'd be a need to access the money. If you think you might need some of the cash you invested, then buying a condo is not something you should be doing.

Not sure how a farang selling at a deep discount because he's leaving the country should sound any warning bells. Many get divorced, end up broke, etc and want to leave it all behind and go back home. Those types are happy to sell at a big discount because they just want ti all over and done with quickly. It also happens when farangs have died and their realives that inherited don't live in Thailand. They are also happy to sell at a good discount. This also happens in other countries. You can often pick up bargains like this in the UK when these things happen.

I've told countless farangs how to find a bargain property but none of them will follow my advice because thy're too lazy. I've even seen the advice on this forum, but I've never seen anyone come back and say thanks because they followed it and bought a property. I wonder why that is. I know plenty of people that made their wealth in property and they all do similar stuff to find good property. But there's the majority who just won't do it. They prefer the easy option of going to see a show apartment and paying over the odds for it. Then they come on here and complain when they can't sell it.

[KittenKong]

Not sure how a farang selling at a deep discount because he's leaving the country should sound any warning bells. Many get divorced, end up broke, etc and want to leave it all behind and go back home. Those types are happy to sell at a big discount because they just want ti all over and done with quickly. It also happens when farangs have died and their realives that inherited don't live in Thailand. They are also happy to sell at a good discount. This also happens in other countries. You can often pick up bargains like this in the UK when these things happen.

The difference is that the UK bargain may be 5-10% below the average asking price, and will probably sell within a day or two.

Here the bargain may need to be listed at 30% below the average asking price and may still takes weeks to sell at an even lower price.

To me this just indicates that most properties in Thailand are listed at prices that bear no relation at all to their real worth, unlike in the UK where properties often sell quickly for the asking price or a knat's whisker thereof.

[blackcab]

I really want to buy in Bangkok. Let's say I have 100k to spend (3mb) and I rent a unit conservatively for 12k (this is indeed very conservative) it is still a much better return than money sitting in my Canadian bank account with earns me 2000b a month on 100k.

Now there are 2 things that really is putting me off

Hideous maintenance. Even new expensive developments look like crap after 10 years.

Lack of Chinese buyers. Sure, Chinese tourists love to come here en masse, but I don't see them buying real estate. They go to established countries, UK/US/Canada/Australia

Another thing. Prices indeed go up, but most units do not sell.

The difference is you can take your money out of the bank any time you choose, with little or no notice.

Try doing that with a second hand condo in Thailand.

Try asking foreign owners of condos that are for sale what their lowest price would be for a cash sale completed within 24 hours of them providing the debt free letter from the JPM.

You would probably get some interesting answers.

It's true that you can take money out of the bank anytime (unless your bank goes bust or the government confiscates your money like they did in Cypress), but I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to spend all your money on a condo and not have any cash left over. If a condo is an investment it would usually be a small part of your portfolio, not 100% of it. So I don't think it's an either/or situation as you seem to be suggesting.

I do agree with what you have said in the last couple of posts. The point I was making, however, is that it's a case of buyer beware with condos. They really can be difficult to resell at a profit. In fact, they can simply be difficult to resell.

As you said, however, this is often because people pay way too much in the beginning.

[ldnguy]

Not sure how a farang selling at a deep discount because he's leaving the country should sound any warning bells. Many get divorced, end up broke, etc and want to leave it all behind and go back home. Those types are happy to sell at a big discount because they just want ti all over and done with quickly. It also happens when farangs have died and their realives that inherited don't live in Thailand. They are also happy to sell at a good discount. This also happens in other countries. You can often pick up bargains like this in the UK when these things happen.

The difference is that the UK bargain may be 5-10% below the average asking price, and will probably sell within a day or two.

Here the bargain may need to be listed at 30% below the average asking price and may still takes weeks to sell at an even lower price.

To me this just indicates that most properties in Thailand are listed at prices that bear no relation at all to their real worth, unlike in the UK where properties often sell quickly for the asking price or a knat's whisker thereof.

I am i complete agreement with you. But I have seen farangs sell in hurry in Thailand with 20-40% knocked off the price of similar condos for sale. It is possible to get a bargain if you look hard enough and aren't in a hurry. People can find you deals if you offer them a finders fee. Works in all counties.

My point was that a large discount usually doesn't mean that alarm bells should ring. In my experience it usually indicates personal problems and relatives just wanting cash quickly.

[ldnguy]

I really want to buy in Bangkok. Let's say I have 100k to spend (3mb) and I rent a unit conservatively for 12k (this is indeed very conservative) it is still a much better return than money sitting in my Canadian bank account with earns me 2000b a month on 100k.

Now there are 2 things that really is putting me off

Hideous maintenance. Even new expensive developments look like crap after 10 years.

Lack of Chinese buyers. Sure, Chinese tourists love to come here en masse, but I don't see them buying real estate. They go to established countries, UK/US/Canada/Australia

Another thing. Prices indeed go up, but most units do not sell.

The difference is you can take your money out of the bank any time you choose, with little or no notice.

Try doing that with a second hand condo in Thailand.

Try asking foreign owners of condos that are for sale what their lowest price would be for a cash sale completed within 24 hours of them providing the debt free letter from the JPM.

You would probably get some interesting answers.

It's true that you can take money out of the bank anytime (unless your bank goes bust or the government confiscates your money like they did in Cypress), but I think you'd have to be pretty stupid to spend all your money on a condo and not have any cash left over. If a condo is an investment it would usually be a small part of your portfolio, not 100% of it. So I don't think it's an either/or situation as you seem to be suggesting.

I do agree with what you have said in the last couple of posts. The point I was making, however, is that it's a case of buyer beware with condos. They really can be difficult to resell at a profit. In fact, they can simply be difficult to resell.

As you said, however, this is often because people pay way too much in the beginning.

They can indeed to difficult to sell at a profit if you paid too much to begin with, but that is true in any country. It's not just Thailand where foreigners overpay. Even in UK there are stories of Chinese being sold properties 30% above market value. And it happens in holiday areas all over the world. Naive seller just jump in without having any idea of market values.

But it's not true that condos are difficult to sell. Everything ha a price. A property not selling is usually because it's overpriced. Even a complete dump in an awful location with sell at the right price. But selling at the price you want is different.

But rent and you'll always leave the property with a loss. A property doesn't always have to make a profit. The time you lived there counts for something. Some would rather spend 5 million on rent than lose 1 million on buying ans selling. It's insane.

[Restinpeace]

They can indeed to difficult to sell at a profit if you paid too much to begin with, but that is true in any country. It's not just Thailand where foreigners overpay. Even in UK there are stories of Chinese being sold properties 30% above market value. And it happens in holiday areas all over the world. Naive seller just jump in without having any idea of market values.

But it's not true that condos are difficult to sell. Everything ha a price. A property not selling is usually because it's overpriced. Even a complete dump in an awful location with sell at the right price. But selling at the price you want is different.

But rent and you'll always leave the property with a loss. A property doesn't always have to make a profit. The time you lived there counts for something. Some would rather spend 5 million on rent than lose 1 million on buying ans selling. It's insane.

I think you're not taking into consideration opportunity cost of investing your money into something else other than a condo. I can invest that 5 million in a business, index fund, or anything that provides a stable 6%+ return and still rent. This does not mean i'm walking away with a loss.

On the contrary, i'm preserving my liquidity and not locking my money into a very non liquid asset and potential liability.

[trogers]

They can indeed to difficult to sell at a profit if you paid too much to begin with, but that is true in any country. It's not just Thailand where foreigners overpay. Even in UK there are stories of Chinese being sold properties 30% above market value. And it happens in holiday areas all over the world. Naive seller just jump in without having any idea of market values.

But it's not true that condos are difficult to sell. Everything ha a price. A property not selling is usually because it's overpriced. Even a complete dump in an awful location with sell at the right price. But selling at the price you want is different.

But rent and you'll always leave the property with a loss. A property doesn't always have to make a profit. The time you lived there counts for something. Some would rather spend 5 million on rent than lose 1 million on buying ans selling. It's insane.

I think you're not taking into consideration opportunity cost of investing your money into something else other than a condo. I can invest that 5 million in a business, index fund, or anything that provides a stable 6%+ return and still rent. This does not mean i'm walking away with a loss.

On the contrary, i'm preserving my liquidity and not locking my money into a very non liquid asset and potential liability.

The risk profile for such a return is different. With the QEs that have been going on, the financial market is in for a big boom and bust.

There has been warnings that even govt bonds are not that safe, ranging from with risk of currency devaluation to default - see Greek bonds.

[Restinpeace]

The risk profile for such a return is different. With the QEs that have been going on, the financial market is in for a big boom and bust.

There has been warnings that even govt bonds are not that safe, ranging from with risk of currency devaluation to default - see Greek bonds.

A well diversified portfolio of 60/40 or 70/30 of low cost stock/bond index funds has been proven to weather the storm just fine. Plus it kicks off a decent enough dividend. Of course investing in single country bonds or even a single stock is a bad idea.

The market isn't just going to belly flop forever unless you think nuclear winter and armaggedon is coming. In which case we might as well stock up on canned goods and guns too.

We're bound to have a bear market at some point but that's completely normal.

[WhizBang]

Around Sukhumvit all the way out to Ekamai Pre 1997 units sell for around 70,000 Baht/m2, while newer building are somewhere around 100,000 Baht/m2 depending of area.

I paid around 36,000 baht/m2 for my condo on Asoke just off Sukhumvit, about 15 years ago.

[WorkingTourist]

The risk profile for such a return is different. With the QEs that have been going on, the financial market is in for a big boom and bust.

There has been warnings that even govt bonds are not that safe, ranging from with risk of currency devaluation to default - see Greek bonds.

A well diversified portfolio of 60/40 or 70/30 of low cost stock/bond index funds has been proven to weather the storm just fine.

Nothing has been proven about the future.

Also, the grandparent was saying “i'm preserving my liquidity and not locking my money into a very non liquid asset and potential liability”.

So I don’t think that matches what you are talking about.

Personally I consider my condo purchase part of my diversified portfolio, and a place I can live rent free while I “weather the storm”

[Restinpeace]

Nothing has been proven about the future.

Also, the grandparent was saying “i'm preserving my liquidity and not locking my money into a very non liquid asset and potential liability”.

So I don’t think that matches what you are talking about.

Personally I consider my condo purchase part of my diversified portfolio, and a place I can live rent free while I “weather the storm”

An index fund is about as close to liquid as you can get and still be in an investment. It would literally take me a few clicks of the mouse.

Anyhow, there's no right or wrong answer here as long as you come out on top. I don't exactly look down on condo ownership because there are distinct pros to it and i've been fence sitting on whether to buy a place to live. What another user on here said wasn't entirely incorrect. Interest rates are extremey low right now and owning a condo in place of the bond portion of a person's investment portfolio can also make a lot of sense.

[WorkingTourist]

An index fund is about as close to liquid as you can get and still be in an investment. It would literally take me a few clicks of the mouse.

It was the “weather the storm” I referred to. I.e. if you want to be sure not to lose money, you might have to wait years before you sell your securities, not to mention the 6%+ annualised return.

If you bought into the S&P 500 in 2000 then it wasn’t until October 2007 that it regained it’s all time high, only to crash again, and first in March 2013 was it again at the same level as 2000. So you could have been in S&P 500 for 13 years, and you would have a zero return to show for it.

People seem to only remember the last 5 years when they make statements like “I can invest that 5 million in a business, index fund, or anything that provides a stable 6%+ return and still rent” (that is your quote from above).

[ldnguy]

They can indeed to difficult to sell at a profit if you paid too much to begin with, but that is true in any country. It's not just Thailand where foreigners overpay. Even in UK there are stories of Chinese being sold properties 30% above market value. And it happens in holiday areas all over the world. Naive seller just jump in without having any idea of market values.

But it's not true that condos are difficult to sell. Everything ha a price. A property not selling is usually because it's overpriced. Even a complete dump in an awful location with sell at the right price. But selling at the price you want is different.

But rent and you'll always leave the property with a loss. A property doesn't always have to make a profit. The time you lived there counts for something. Some would rather spend 5 million on rent than lose 1 million on buying ans selling. It's insane.

I think you're not taking into consideration opportunity cost of investing your money into something else other than a condo. I can invest that 5 million in a business, index fund, or anything that provides a stable 6%+ return and still rent. This does not mean i'm walking away with a loss.

On the contrary, i'm preserving my liquidity and not locking my money into a very non liquid asset and potential liability.

There is some truth in that, but your investment could also go down. This isn't such a black and white issue though, because whether it's better to by or rent depends on the circumstances of the individual. IF you had to borrow the money to buy in Thailand then you MAY be better of renting. But if you have the cash in the bank earning 1% interest, then it may be better to buy. There are lots of factors involved. Opportunity cost is usually something that most people fail to consider, but that can work both ways. And with many in Thailand using money from their home country, currency rate fluctuation also comes into play.

Buy having said all that I still believe buying is better than renting over the longer-term. It's worked that way my whole life and everyone I know in Thailand who bought 10 or more years ago has a property worth more than they paid for it. And I don't mean they just made up an unrealistic value. I mean neighboring properties are actually selling for more. Much more in many cases.

But personally I'd buy as a home but doubt I would buy to invest unless I found a very good deal. There are better property investments in UK.

But it's up to each person to take everything into account and make the judgement for themselves. But I see the same arguments being trotted out as people in the UK have been saying for my whole life. I know a couple of people in the UK who have rented their whole lives (now in 50s). Their friends now own properties worth £300-600K without mortgages. The renters were insistent that renting was best. That's what I see here. Most are either too scared to buy or don't have money anyway. That's ok though.

[ldnguy]

The risk profile for such a return is different. With the QEs that have been going on, the financial market is in for a big boom and bust.

There has been warnings that even govt bonds are not that safe, ranging from with risk of currency devaluation to default - see Greek bonds.

A well diversified portfolio of 60/40 or 70/30 of low cost stock/bond index funds has been proven to weather the storm just fine. Plus it kicks off a decent enough dividend. Of course investing in single country bonds or even a single stock is a bad idea.

The market isn't just going to belly flop forever unless you think nuclear winter and armaggedon is coming. In which case we might as well stock up on canned goods and guns too.

We're bound to have a bear market at some point but that's completely normal.

You could say exactly the same about the property market. It's been "been proven to weather the storm just fine. Plus it kicks off a decent enough dividend. ".

Also...

"The (property) market isn't just going to belly flop forever unless you think nuclear winter and armaggedon is coming. In which case we might as well stock up on canned goods and guns too.

We're bound to have a bear market at some point but that's completely normal."

[WorkingTourist]

[…] everyone I know in Thailand who bought 10 or more years ago has a property worth more than they paid for it. And I don't mean they just made up an unrealistic value. I mean neighboring properties are actually selling for more. Much more in many cases.

Because of stamp duty plus transfer and withholding tax, the real estate price must go up for the owner to break even (ignoring CAM fees).

I am in the process of buying a condo myself, if I sell this after 10 years, then the annual price increase should be about 1.1% to cover the taxes I will have to pay when selling.

Though the longer I keep the condo, the lower the appreciation need to be to cover the taxes, for example after 15 years it only need to appreciate annually by 0.59%, or 9.2% total.

That said, since I am buying in a central location (for which demand is unlikely to go down), I would be very surprised if the condo doesn’t appreciate with at least 1-2% annually.

[ldnguy]

[…] everyone I know in Thailand who bought 10 or more years ago has a property worth more than they paid for it. And I don't mean they just made up an unrealistic value. I mean neighboring properties are actually selling for more. Much more in many cases.

Because of stamp duty plus transfer and withholding tax, the real estate price must go up for the owner to break even (ignoring CAM fees).

I am in the process of buying a condo myself, if I sell this after 10 years, then the annual price increase should be about 1.1% to cover the taxes I will have to pay when selling.

Though the longer I keep the condo, the lower the appreciation need to be to cover the taxes, for example after 15 years it only need to appreciate annually by 0.59%, or 9.2% total.

That said, since I am buying in a central location (for which demand is unlikely to go down), I would be very surprised if the condo doesn’t appreciate with at least 1-2% annually.

As long as you don't pay to much I think you'll make a nice profit after 10 years. Especially in a central area.