Do Luk Kreung Children Have Good Prospects?

[fxm88]

Logic???? Most of the posts in this thread are questioning your logic.

Logic!!!! Everything I've written is backed up by the articles I've cited in my posts. Have you bothered to read any of them?

(You don't like my picture? )

Edited August 26, 2006 by fxm88

[M&M]

You're taking a long time to retort. Have your thought processing skills deteriorated now that you've reached your twilight years? And we've got an audience. I can hear them all chanting 'fight! fight! fight!'

Is that directed at me??? Don't know why - just trying to help

quote

"We all know that most jobs in Thailand are incredibly low paid, including top professional jobs such as doctors, engineers and lawyers. The only way to get a decent salary seems to be to either own your own business"

your words mate... so why do you even need to ask.

I know young people leaving international universities as graduates looking at a MAXIMUM of 15000 - 18000baht a month... with a MBA from the USA 30000baht starting salary...

Is THAT what you want for ur kids?

Edited August 26, 2006 by M&M

[berries]

Is that directed at me??? Don't know why - just trying to help

No sorry - I totally agree with everything you've written and you're the only man I have encountered who seems to share my concerns (I am female with a Thai husband). I was talking to FX whatever his name is who keeps polluting this topic with neo-nazi nonsense. I think you're making really sound judgements and I hope everything works out as you hope.

[berries]

(You don't like my picture? )

Nice one Fxm88!

[M&M]

Is that directed at me??? Don't know why - just trying to help

No sorry - I totally agree with everything you've written and you're the only man I have encountered who seems to share my concerns (I am female with a Thai husband). I was talking to FX whatever his name is who keeps polluting this topic with neo-nazi nonsense. I think you're making really sound judgements and I hope everything works out as you hope.

Understood - no worries... my misunderstanding... I'm new to these forum thingies! Let me give you an example....

I have a very close friend, shes a bit older that me, been in TL for about 17 years met and married a Thai guy in the States and came here. She's a lovely zany Californian!

Her son is now a teenager and she is regretting - and I mean seriously regretting - her past choices of bringing him up here. She made the decision a long time ago.

Now she's looking to send him back to her family in the States to finish high school and get "foreign" qualifications! But she is really unhappy about the choices she made a long time ago. Her son finds discrimination in his school, is badly treated by teachers... BUT ok it's not an inter school.

BUT think very carefully about what you're doing!

M&M .... by the way sorry - my typing is crap!

Edited August 26, 2006 by M&M

[fxm88]

I was talking to FX whatever his name is who keeps polluting this topic with neo-nazi nonsense.

Neo-nazi? Wha???? How did you jump to that conclusion? I think you've lost the plot. Bye.

[berries]

Anyway why can't someone feeling 100 % Thai know there is a big world out there ?

Because it's only the super rich Thais who get to experience it. Most people in the UK have been abroad - I even went abroad at least half a dozen times on school trips. I would be interested to know what percentage of the Thai population have travelled abroad for leisure. That's one reason why Thai people assume that every farang in Thailand is well to do (which of course they're not!) is because the very fact that you had the money to fly here elevates you above such huge numbers of people here.

[M&M]

Anyway why can't someone feeling 100 % Thai know there is a big world out there ?

Because it's only the super rich Thais who get to experience it. Most people in the UK have been abroad - I even went abroad at least half a dozen times on school trips. I would be interested to know what percentage of the Thai population have travelled abroad for leisure. That's one reason why Thai people assume that every farang in Thailand is well to do (which of course they're not!) is because the very fact that you had the money to fly here elevates you above such huge numbers of people here.

and another thought... and this may be tainted by my own predjudice... have you ever seen a group of International School kids on the Sky Train... rude and arrogant and obvioulsly thinking they;re a big cut above the rest.

I know a Thai family who are quite well off... not 'super' rich but sacrificing to give their kid a good education. He's spent some time in New Zealand and speaks very good English as a second language for a 15 year old. Now they;re putting him in to an Inter School... he's shitting himself... he says all the Inter students look down on Thais and Leuk-Kreung (mixed race).... UNLESS they are fron the super rich families involved in entertainment business etc....

Poor kid is a nervous wreck. I knowhis Mum & Dad think they're doing the best thing for him but when I chat to him I think , hel_l, he's happy and doing fine where he is.....

God... bringing up kids.... makes u think dunnit!!!! Wonder what I;ll be doing with my boy when he's 15.... I was a bloody nightmare at that age!

sorry... just more thoughts...

Edited August 26, 2006 by M&M

[boogie]

Anyway why can't someone feeling 100 % Thai know there is a big world out there ?

Because it's only the super rich Thais who get to experience it. Most people in the UK have been abroad - I even went abroad at least half a dozen times on school trips. I would be interested to know what percentage of the Thai population have travelled abroad for leisure. That's one reason why Thai people assume that every farang in Thailand is well to do (which of course they're not!) is because the very fact that you had the money to fly here elevates you above such huge numbers of people here.

Ok I agree with that entirely, what I really meant was someone like a Luk Kreung feeling 100% Thai being able to know the big world out there. His circumstances would be very different from the average Thai, depending of course on the circumstances of the farang parent. Feeling 100% Thai doesnt stop you, it's the financial constraints of the average Thai that does.

And M&M I also agree with you about the best of both worlds.

But I would have thought a Luk Kreung brought up in Thailand would also have the best of both worlds. Obviously M&M and Berries you disagree because of the education and discrimination issues. Do you think your views are widely held ? Is discrimination widespread ? Is it not possible to get a good education anywhere in Thailand ?

I would also have thought children who "look different" in the UK probably come up against a similar thing at school, or do you really think it is worse in Thailand ?

[Vespa]

I did not know about Luk Kreung kids being discriminated against in Thailand ?

The ones I have seen have seem well adjusted and if you we must go by social standing, they seem well regarded in that aspect also.

It is with great interest that I am following this thread. My child is 5 years old, he was born in USA and English is his native language. My Thai wife and I have discussed his future with great concern growing up in Thailand and are giving it a shot - we think at least 2 years, then if needed we can return and he can still easily assimilate back into a US school.

Education in America is horrible - the average person is incredibly ignorant about anything that goes on in the world – statistically they lag behind many poorer nations in math and science.

We are totally ######ed by our government and health care systems.

These factors make me want to live in Thailand, my wife is happier - her family is near.

One thing I strongly consider is the next generation , the world is changing fast - 20 years Thailand should be a very different place and USA may well be the 3rd world shithole is now seems destined to become.

Edited August 26, 2006 by Vespa

[think_too_mut]

My wife wants him to go to school in the UK when he is about 14 which is totally the wrong time over there, it should be around 11 or 18 but we have a bit of time yet. However she also wants to send him to pre pre school now and I really don't want this to happen because of 2 reasons

Firstly if we send him to school from pre pre to the end of university he will have spent perhaps 20 or more years being educated.

Secondly and most important to me, he is a little boy and I would like him to enjoy little boy things like playing with friends etc. He doesn't need to grow up too quickly and miss his childhod as the second childhood comes when you are my age and unless he have young children he will miss out again on all the fun and excitement of children.

I wouldn't want him to have a life of education and work and no good memories to look back on.

What do you think they get children to do at kindergarten? Load and uload sacks of rice into the trucks?

I was sent to kindergaden at 3yrs of age and those are my best memories. Although now dispersed from Alasaka to Australia, 7 out of 10 of my best lifetime friendships had formed exactly there - in the kindergarten and further with the same people through school and uni.

My baby was with nursery from 1.5yrs of age only 2 days a week. When she reached 2 yrs, the manager of the pre-school said that the girl is missiing a lot and that we should consider extending her stay. Since then, she is there 6 days a week, brings home songs and dances they thaught her there and all sorts of cute acts only a professional educators can give.

She is developing friendships and relationships with other kids, far better for her than kicking empty cans in dirt streets with idle and unsupervised children.

[ilyushin]

Every time Guesthouse writes one of his diatribes, I always find myself nodding along in agreement. You are right on the nose!

Agree with you jbowman1993. GH always has a great read. Don't bogart that joint and passi t on.

[sbk]

It depends on where you live but my experience has been that Thai schools lag far behind US schools. I live in a rural area and the schools are quite neglected. To get any kind of decent education for your child you would have to send the to a private school.

I did not know about Luk Kreung kids being discriminated against in Thailand ?

The ones I have seen have seem well adjusted and if you we must go by social standing, they seem well regarded in that aspect also.

It is with great interest that I am following this thread. My child is 5 years old, he was born in USA and English is his native language. My Thai wife and I have discussed his future with great concern growing up in Thailand and are giving it a shot - we think at least 2 years, then if needed we can return and he can still easily assimilate back into a US school.

Education in America is horrible - the average person is incredibly ignorant about anything that goes on in the world – statistically they lag behind many poorer nations in math and science.

We are totally ######ed by our government and health care systems.

These factors make me want to live in Thailand, my wife is happier - her family is near.

One thing I strongly consider is the next generation , the world is changing fast - 20 years Thailand should be a very different place and USA may well be the 3rd world shithole is now seems destined to become.

[Vespa]

An upcountry or reg. Thai school would be out of the question.

Mainly my other posts on this forum were concerning Thai schools.

Edited August 27, 2006 by Vespa

[berries]

Education in America is horrible - the average person is incredibly ignorant about anything that goes on in the world – statistically they lag behind many poorer nations in math and science.

We are totally ######ed by our government and health care systems.

I would have to say that my husband (Thai) is the most ignorant adult I have ever met! I consider him to be very intelligent - he processes information quickly, he is very practical and he has high emotional intelligence, however, he knows absolutely nothing about just about everything! He once asked me if America was in Africa - I mean it's hilarious! And this is someone who finished high school, has a degree with a high grade average and has a professional job. But, like many Thais, he never reads books, he reads a tabloid newspaper that is sensationalist and not analytical and the only things he watches on TV are movies or cartoons!! And I think he's fairly typical!

[billd766]

What do you think they get children to do at kindergarten? Load and uload sacks of rice into the trucks?

I was sent to kindergaden at 3yrs of age and those are my best memories. Although now dispersed from Alasaka to Australia, 7 out of 10 of my best lifetime friendships had formed exactly there - in the kindergarten and further with the same people through school and uni.

My baby was with nursery from 1.5yrs of age only 2 days a week. When she reached 2 yrs, the manager of the pre-school said that the girl is missiing a lot and that we should consider extending her stay. Since then, she is there 6 days a week, brings home songs and dances they thaught her there and all sorts of cute acts only a professional educators can give.

She is developing friendships and relationships with other kids, far better for her than kicking empty cans in dirt streets with idle and unsupervised children.

I know that children don't unload sacks of rice into trucks but that was not my point.

When I went to kindergarden in the UK over 50 years ago I was 5 years old and nobody went to prenursery school because it didn't exist. I spent 2 years in nursery, 4 years in junior school and 4 years in senior school. I didn't particularly enjoy school nor did I hate it.

I have no idea where any of the people I went to school with are now, probably living in the same town in a 3 bed semi detached house or a bungalow since their children have left home.

I left home at 15 1/2and joinexd the Royal Air force as a boy entrant and left at 40. My Dad died before I left school and my Mum died when I was 32 and I have only been back a few times since.

Most of my good friends were made in the military.

When I was young I used to play in the streets unsupervised as did most of my generation though my eldest son, now 28, wasn't really allowed to as the streets were much safer when I was young.

My main point was that I grew up in a warm loving relationship with my parents even though my Dad used to cuff me around the ear (as did policemen) if I was caught doing wrong.

I know that he will be going to pre nursery school soon but I want him to have something of a childhood first.

[Mel Brooks]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is the 'unemploymentabilty' of Thais who have been educated abroad to a secondary and tertiary level. They are often perceived to 'know too much' and to have been tainted by western influences.

[baitoey]

I have just read this thread and it is very interesting!

My husband is Thai and comes from a normal Isaarn family, not comfortable, not really poor. However, he was bright and was always top of his class at school (normal government school). He went to University and has a successful career and I am very proud of him for that. He has earned a range of salaries, from 20,000-95,000B a month. All his friends are on decent salaries, more than 50,000B in their twenties. That is a lot of money here, whether you are Thai or western.

As a single person, probably living at home say, it is a lot, and as a married person, in a couple where you both work and presummably marry someone of the 'same status' as you, it is double. I would imagine that in lots of families in the UK both partners work full-time and one salary may just go on childcare.

Mortgages and cars are not that much. If you are Thai it is easy to get credit, just as people in the UK live off credit.

I think that upbringing is just as important as schooling. You can teach your children to feel that they have opportunities and can do anything. You can help them to develop their interests and find what they are good at.

As leuk-kreung kids, they will have a broader outlook on life. One thing my husband thinks is that our kids need to know how to behave in Thai society to succeed in the world of work here. There are certain ways to behave - he says it is like a facade - inside you can feel and think however you want - but on the outside you have to know how to behave, he says it's a game. That is something they can't learn from living in the UK.

Anyway my point is, that ultimately, I think that each individual is responsible for their own destiny, and your destiny is what you make it, so live where you are happy.

But another point is also that whether you think the UK is a better place to live also depends on your own background and the financial status of your own family. If you were brought up on a council estate, for example, and have been travelling for years, you've missed your step on the property ladder there.

[Khun Jean]

I decided to listen to many Thai people who told me it is a lot better to educate your children outside of Thailand. Being a bit stubborn i tried to find out as much as possible before giving up. I visited many schools, Samui, HuaHin, Bangkok , Rayong. Some schools are good, but have "strange" students. With strange i mean "lazy, rich, violent etc".

It seems rich children that go to international schools are not the best company for our children.

In my family there are a lot of children, some go to a temple school, some to a normal government school, some to bilingual schools, all of them in Bangkok. Nobody has money enough for an international school.

One child, a boy, that is a little naughty some times comes home with bruises. He has been hit with a small stick by the teacher. (If that happened to one of my own children, i guess the teacher would be hurting too). But here it is accepted as a part of going to school. It happens only in some schools.

Other children seem to do ok, but the older ones at 12 years and 15 years seem to know almost nothing. For example math is not going higher than 2x20=40. English from the children going to the bilingual school is not understandable. They have an English teacher with a thick accent, but how do the Thais know that. He is white and has a big nose. Probably was a badly underperforming student in his days.

At the end i have only one choice. An international school. A good one is at least 500.000 a year per child, excluding bribe money to get in, and extra costs. I have two children si it will be about 100.000 baht a month to give them an education that is of lower quality than the free education in our countries.

So the decision is made. We go either to Australia or back to the Netherlands. Not ONLY because there is no good education available for an affordable price, there are other reasons as well. Thai society has a lot of discrimination and Thais are very xenophobic, and there is a dividing class system. All things i would not want my child to be a part of. For me it is something i ignore, the children would not be able to.

My wife and i talked about this when we had our first child. We decided to stay in Thailand until the child was 4-5 years old. The oldest one is now 4.5 years, so it is decision time. In those years they picked up the Thai language and can speak it very good, they also speak a little English. English was not the main language pre-school. They also think dark skinned people are ugly, and "bannork" are stupid. And we live in a Thai community with a lot of "dark skin" people, go figure.

Goes with the territory i am afraid, and they are still to young to really understand. They just repeat what other children are saying. And when i hear adults speaking and see their expressions when they see hard working people i guess it will only get worse.

So unless you can "cocoon" your family against all this it is probably better to move back home to ensure a good education for your children and come back to Thailand for retirement when the kids are adults.

[Vespa]

I decided to listen to many Thai people who told me it is a lot better to educate your children outside of Thailand. Being a bit stubborn i tried to find out as much as possible before giving up. I visited many schools, Samui, HuaHin, Bangkok , Rayong. Some schools are good, but have "strange" students. With strange i mean "lazy, rich, violent etc".

It seems rich children that go to international schools are not the best company for our children.

Unless they grow up with them and have their influence and contacts in the future

In my family there are a lot of children, some go to a temple school, some to a normal government school, some to bilingual schools, all of them in Bangkok. Nobody has money enough for an international school.

One child, a boy, that is a little naughty some times comes home with bruises. He has been hit with a small stick by the teacher. (If that happened to one of my own children, i guess the teacher would be hurting too).

And you would be in a Thai prison

But here it is accepted as a part of going to school. It happens only in some schools.

Other children seem to do ok, but the older ones at 12 years and 15 years seem to know almost nothing. For example math is not going higher than 2x20=40. English from the children going to the bilingual school is not understandable. They have an English teacher with a thick accent, but how do the Thais know that. He is white and has a big nose. Probably was a badly underperforming student in his days.

Good point

At the end i have only one choice. An international school. A good one is at least 500.000 a year per child, excluding bribe money to get in, and extra costs. I have two children si it will be about 100.000 baht a month to give them an education that is of lower quality than the free education in our countries.

Holland or Australia most likely not USA

So the decision is made. We go either to Australia or back to the Netherlands. Not ONLY because there is no good education available for an affordable price, there are other reasons as well. Thai society has a lot of discrimination and Thais are very xenophobic, and there is a dividing class system. All things i would not want my child to be a part of. For me it is something i ignore, the children would not be able to.

Again times are changing fast , racism is everywhere

My wife and i talked about this when we had our first child. We decided to stay in Thailand until the child was 4-5 years old. The oldest one is now 4.5 years, so it is decision time. In those years they picked up the Thai language and can speak it very good, they also speak a little English. English was not the main language pre-school. They also think dark skinned people are ugly, and "bannork" are stupid. And we live in a Thai community with a lot of "dark skin" people, go figure.

At least it is not the South Bronx

Goes with the territory i am afraid, and they are still to young to really understand. They just repeat what other children are saying. And when i hear adults speaking and see their expressions when they see hard working people i guess it will only get worse.

So unless you can "cocoon" your family against all this it is probably better to move back home to ensure a good education for your children and come back to Thailand for retirement when the kids are adults.

And when you are old and bent ?

[Khun Jean]

At least it is not the South Bronx

Holland or Australia most likely not USA

Why the negative remarks about the USA. That is one enormous country. And not everywhere is bad, there are many good places, i actually want to say most places are good.

In Thailand you need to be in the neighbourhood of Bangkok or another expat area for good schools. It is unfortunate but really there is not much choice. And i think the impact of school is much higher when children are young. That is the basis.

Unless they grow up with them and have their influence and contacts in the future

Yes that is how the system works, suck up and try to be accepted. Not really the values i want to see in my children.

[berries]

Khun Jean I think you have made some excellent points and I totally agree. I also worry about certain cultural influences on my children but I think for me it's more about not fully (barely!) understanding Thai culture and whether or not I can parent my children well living in a culture that is theirs but not mine.

[Donz]

I dont think that Luk kreung girls/guys have much advantage, only in the looks department maybe. But

[leftcross]

did anyone see the prog an channel 3 last week?

had luuk krungs in isaan.

there was one girl, aged maybe 13/14, who was half swedish. she was very pretty but didnt know her dad and had to beg for a handout at the temple for food. she was working hard on grandads farm but wasnt getting anywhere and mum was in pattaya doing her thing.

it was very sad

[Poverty Packer]

Luk kreung children have the same prospects as anyone else with similar education and background

[Dakhar]

That must be why there are so many of them on TV....

[Boatabike]

I decided to listen to many Thai people who told me it is a lot better to educate your children outside of Thailand. Being a bit stubborn i tried to find out as much as possible before giving up. I visited many schools, Samui, HuaHin, Bangkok , Rayong. Some schools are good, but have "strange" students. With strange i mean "lazy, rich, violent etc".

It seems rich children that go to international schools are not the best company for our children.

In my family there are a lot of children, some go to a temple school, some to a normal government school, some to bilingual schools, all of them in Bangkok. Nobody has money enough for an international school.

One child, a boy, that is a little naughty some times comes home with bruises. He has been hit with a small stick by the teacher. (If that happened to one of my own children, i guess the teacher would be hurting too). But here it is accepted as a part of going to school. It happens only in some schools.

Other children seem to do ok, but the older ones at 12 years and 15 years seem to know almost nothing. For example math is not going higher than 2x20=40. English from the children going to the bilingual school is not understandable. They have an English teacher with a thick accent, but how do the Thais know that. He is white and has a big nose. Probably was a badly underperforming student in his days.

At the end i have only one choice. An international school. A good one is at least 500.000 a year per child, excluding bribe money to get in, and extra costs. I have two children si it will be about 100.000 baht a month to give them an education that is of lower quality than the free education in our countries.

So the decision is made. We go either to Australia or back to the Netherlands. Not ONLY because there is no good education available for an affordable price, there are other reasons as well. Thai society has a lot of discrimination and Thais are very xenophobic, and there is a dividing class system. All things i would not want my child to be a part of. For me it is something i ignore, the children would not be able to.

My wife and i talked about this when we had our first child. We decided to stay in Thailand until the child was 4-5 years old. The oldest one is now 4.5 years, so it is decision time. In those years they picked up the Thai language and can speak it very good, they also speak a little English. English was not the main language pre-school. They also think dark skinned people are ugly, and "bannork" are stupid. And we live in a Thai community with a lot of "dark skin" people, go figure.

Goes with the territory i am afraid, and they are still to young to really understand. They just repeat what other children are saying. And when i hear adults speaking and see their expressions when they see hard working people i guess it will only get worse.

So unless you can "cocoon" your family against all this it is probably better to move back home to ensure a good education for your children and come back to Thailand for retirement when the kids are adults.

I think this is a very honest post. I feel that many concerned parents spend a lot of time asking what is best for their child, and naturaly so. But how many of them actually make the right choice based on that question alone? I think that many concerned parents end up making choices for their children based on what 'they want' as much as what is best for the child. You are in Thailand because you want to be and therefore will give yourselves as many reasons as possible to make choices for your kids based on that desire to stay. I am not pointing fingers nor am i saying everyone, i am just asking, are our choices for our children based on what we like to feel they are? I do not have any children, because i made a choice that i do not want to raise a child in Thailand, i made that choice before i was faced with the difficulty of dealing with a loved one so my situation is different. I would love kids but to do so means moving to a place i feel gives that child what i would like them to have and for me it is not Thailand. I am biased in that respect to me (for me) this is the wrong place to make a family. For you it might be perfect. But i get the feeling that a fair few people talk about what is right for their child then do what is right for themselves. The post i quoted strikes me as being a very honst look at the problem and a very honest solution, the kid comes first. Good on you and the best of luck.

[nsnoreen]

As a luk Kreung myself, I had the hardest time adjusting because I was moved from an international school in Saudi Arabia to a Thai girls catholic school when I was in 6th grade - worst timing ever!!! It was miserable. I couldn't speak Thai at all and I definitely stood out as being a farang (I looked much more farang than my sisters). I had hoards of girls following me around during recess whispering and giggling because I was foreign, but the novelty eventually wore off. I never quite fit in, but I did have one really good Thai friend. Her family often hosted foreign exchange students so that was probably why we became good friends. Then we moved to the US in order for me to go to high school. That was another big culture shock as I had never lived in the states. 9th grade was also miserable, but I adjusted and am definitely much more american than I am Thai. But as an artist, my work revolves around issues of displacement and not having a "home" or hometown, or even a "people".

I think its much easer to adjust and assimilate when you are younger. My youngest sister was not nearly affected as I was. Middle school and high school are hard times for any young person. Throw a big move to a completely different country/language/culture into the mix and its 100% worse! Just some things to think about. . .

[Benjie]

I don't understand the OP.

They have the best of both worlds, if they can't find a job over here in Thailand thats well paid they can go back home and have just exactly the same chances they would have if they were born their anyway.

Personally I see people that are able to bridge the gap between the Eastern and the Western worlds as having a very promising future.

I'd jump at the chance of hiring someone like this, for a start they can communicate perfectly a lot of the time in English and in Thai, secondly no need to go through all the rigmarole of work permits etc... I know a few guys here who are doing very well in sales positions down in Phuket.

[Brigante7]

I think my son will have good prospects because he has dual passports and will be able to read, write and speak both English & Thai but it will be up to him to make the most of it. All my wife & I can do is try to give him the right start in life and that begins at home, and to ensure he goes to the best school for him which isn't always the most expensive.

Brigante7.

Edited July 18, 2009 by Brigante7