Greece drops key bailout demands, but Germany still objects

[webfact]

Greece drops key bailout demands, but Germany still objects
DEREK GATOPOULOS, Associated Press

ATHENS, Greece (AP) — Greece heads to another round of negotiations Friday after dropping key demands for a bailout settlement, but still faced stiff opposition from lead lender Germany, which criticized Athens' latest proposals as a "Trojan horse" designed to dodge its commitments.

Eurozone finance ministers agreed to hold their third meeting on the Greek debt crisis in just over a week after Athens formally requested a six-month extension of loan agreements with rescue creditors that expire this month.

Going back on recent election campaign pledges, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras' new left-wing government said it would honor debt obligations and agree to continued supervision from bailout lenders and the European Central Bank.

Late Thursday, Tsipras held telephone conversations with French President Francois Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel after Germany sharply criticized the Greek offer during preparatory talks in Brussels.

Greek media, including state television, widely quoted a German representative at the talks as saying the Greek offer "rather represents a Trojan horse, intending to get bridge financing and in substance putting an end to the current program."

The comments were confirmed by a senior official in the Greek Finance Ministry who could not be identified because the talks in Brussels were not public. In Berlin, government officials did not comment publicly on the remarks, but told The Associated Press they accurately reflected the German government position.

Germany argues that Greece has failed to provide detailed alternatives to cost-cutting reforms imposed by the previous government that helped the country balance its budget after decades of excessive borrowing.

Greek and European markets were largely unaffected by the German response. Europe's Stoxx 50 index rising 0.64 percent, but Athens is under increasing pressure to break the impasse with lenders.

"If there's no agreement in the next few days there is a risk of (a bank run) because liquidity in Greek banks is very limited and there are many who say that capital controls are very close," said Evangelos Sioutis, head of equities at Guardian Trust Securities.

Although Greece emerged from the recession with a primary budget surplus last year, it faces a spike in debt repayment in 2015 with hopes of a full return to markets hit by renewed uncertainty and a resulting surge borrowing rates.

Tsipras ousted traditionally dominant political parties in Jan. 25 elections, promising to scrap bailout agreements and supervision, and demand a massive write down of Greece's 240 billion euro bailout debt so that his government could tackle a dramatic surge in unemployment.

But in its latest proposals Thursday — carefully worded to avoid reference to the bailout agreement or "memorandum" — it scaled back those aims to seek more modest primary budget surpluses, budget-neutral growth measures, and calls for a deal later this year to improve bailout loan repayment terms.

Greek officials appeared visibly irritated by the latest German objections.

"All the conditions are there for a transition agreement to be achieved," Deputy Prime Minister Giannis Dragasakis said.

"At this moment it appears that there are powers that would like Greece on its knees, exactly so they can impose their will."

In Washington, U.S. officials said that Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew had been closely monitoring the Greek debt negotiations. Officials said that Lew spoke by phone Thursday with finance ministers in Greece and France, as well as Dutch Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem, who is the current chair of Eurozone finance ministers.

"Our message has uniformly been that the Europeans have the capacity to handle these challenges," said a U.S. Treasury official who briefed reporters about the phone calls under rules that did not allow use of his name. "It is going to require a constructive and pragmatic way forward and some compromise and some turning down and toning down a bit of the rhetoric."
___

Nicholas Paphitis, Elena Becatoros and Raphael Kominis in Athens, Raf Casert and Lorne Cook in Brussels, Mike Corder in Amsterdam, Geir Moulson and Frank Jordans in Berlin, Elaine Ganley in Paris and Martin Crutsinger in Washington, D.C., contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-02-20

[NeverSure]

Dominos.

[Paulc01]

Let the Communist government in Greece and the people who voted for it suffer the consequences.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. The story is not about the US, it's about Greece, Germany and the EU.

Please stay on topic.

[BB24]

EASY PEASY !

Problem: The EU wants to stop paying for Greeks who retired at 40 with 70% of their final annual salary ('paid' by their Uncle), etc etc etc. (LOS has nothing on Greece corruption/graft)

Solution: Stop the money and force Greece to sell an island or two to pay for their debts.

NEXT !!

[billd766]

Quote from OP

"All the conditions are there for a transition agreement to be achieved," Deputy Prime Minister Giannis Dragasakis said.

"At this moment it appears that there are powers that would like Greece on its knees, exactly so they can impose their will."

The one main condition missing for the agreement is for Greece to actually PAY back the money that they borrowed before getting another loan.

Greece has already been on its knees before begging for the loans the first time so why shouldn't they be on their knees a second time because they want to pay it back on their own terms.

Greece borrowed the money and agreed to the terms at the time. Now they want different treatment. Their problem.

Edited February 20, 2015 by billd766

[KarenBravo]

The Euro was never going to work with such disparate economies.

Guess this finally proves it.

[cup-O-coffee]

Apple's market cap reached $400 billion, making Apple worth more than the economy of Greece, and liberals in Congress have proposed forgiving all student loans via “The Student Loan Forgiveness Act 2012,” costing taxpayers $1 trillion.And European finance ministers agreed in 2012 to create a permanent bailout fund for the euro zone with an effective firepower of almost €800 billion. And let us not forget the $303 trillion in derivatives that US taxpayers are now on the hook for. Google it. I did.

The only question is when the next multi-trillion (or perhaps quadrillion now that all global central banks are all in?) bailout takes place.

And so it goes. Small peanuts for Greece, eh?

Maybe Greece should apply for a corporate license instead of being a country, and tell Germany to shut the F up.

Countries cannot apply for bailouts. Corporations and banks and friends brothers and in-laws (FBI) can.

But Greece? Heavens no! Let's drag out all the dirty laundry on Greece and overlook all those scumbags mentioned in the beginning of my post. Let's hammer Greece for making a legitimate request and focusing the attention on something that no one wants to look at.

I've got no beef with Greece. I do respect them for having the toughness to stand up to all of this BS and ask for the same kind of help - to save a nation from crisis - that a whole bunch of lazy bums get to have for their failures to pay back their debts, and don't have to.

[ExPratt]

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Let the Communist government in Greece and the people who voted for it suffer the consequences.

Well they certainly suffered enough under their previous governments, so give the Socialists a go

Edited February 20, 2015 by ExPratt

[Yann55]

'The Greeks are irritated'...

hmmm... hmmm ... of course one immediately thinks "well, these guys sure have a nerve"... but the thing is, German officials have a tendency to be extremely sanctimonious in the way the express their views, especially when they are right. It's OK to be right, but it's not ok to rub it in other people's face with a mouthful of condescension.

There's a way to be right, make your point and yet respect other people's pride, self-respect etc. It's called the diplomatic approach. An approach which our dear German friends have yet to learn, apparently.

First they talked with Tanks, then they talked with Deutschmarks, now how about talking with a measure of respect ? how about realizing that their enormous financial success is due not only to their remarkable capacity for work, discipline, seriousness (all undeniable) but also largely to historical factors ?

[Srikcir]

"Going back on recent election campaign pledges, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras' new left-wing government said it would honor debt obligations and agree to continued supervision from bailout lenders and the European Central Bank"

There is now no further reason why the Tsipras government should continue to exist. By March 2015 we'll see another new government with promises of easy money for the Greeks, and round they will go again with the EU. That is if there's still a country left to have a government.

[hawker9000]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Let the Communist government in Greece and the people who voted for it suffer the consequences.

Well they certainly suffered enough under their previous governments, so give the Socialists a go

Lol. So what do you think is behind their current fiscal crisis (beyond the ability to borrow promiscuously at low interest rates thanks to EU membership, that is), and how long do you think it's been going on? 'Just the last few days?? (More like since the 1980s...) Yes. More socialism. Precisely what Greece needs more of.

Austerity is quite obviously the only realistic solution, not only in the short-term to relieve the crisis, but to some significant degree long-term as well if Greece is ever to actually get healthy again. Socialists and Populists certainly won't be having any of that.

See, this is what "progressives" will never get about socialism. I-t d-o-e-s-n'-t WORK!

Edited February 20, 2015 by hawker9000

[wabothai]

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Dominos.

pizza?

[soumanioco]

The Great Recession (crisis) that started in the US and then spread to Europe, is a tool, it is a weapon. To configure a "new, brave, wonderful world" special economic zones, living spaces, protectorates and authoritarian democracies.

In terms of Europe, this weapon of crisis (and any subsequent crisis) uses the plutocratic Germany to create within the continent Little Chinas, small, short and controllable.

If you don't take into account this factor, the crisis as a tool, as a weapon, the behavior of Germany would be difficult to explain.

[green job]

The Euro was never going to work with such disparate economies.

Guess this finally proves it.

And never will.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Let the EURO go down in flames. Soon we will have a nice cheap tourist destination.

[green job]

'The Greeks are irritated'...

hmmm... hmmm ... of course one immediately thinks "well, these guys sure have a nerve"... but the thing is, German officials have a tendency to be extremely sanctimonious in the way the express their views, especially when they are right. It's OK to be right, but it's not ok to rub it in other people's face with a mouthful of condescension.

There's a way to be right, make your point and yet respect other people's pride, self-respect etc. It's called the diplomatic approach. An approach which our dear German friends have yet to learn, apparently.

First they talked with Tanks, then they talked with Deutschmarks, now how about talking with a measure of respect ? how about realizing that their enormous financial success is due not only to their remarkable capacity for work, discipline, seriousness (all undeniable) but also largely to historical factors ?

Not true,,, I worked in Germany for 25 years,, Germans are very good at telling other people what to do... the bulk of the work done after the war right up to the present day,has been done by Gastarbeiter ( guest-workers) Greeks,,, Turks,,, Italy,, etc etc.All,and I mean ALL the main factories,VW Opal-GM, BMW, Audi,Porsche,Daimler Benz, Bayer etc etc are full of such workers. They have always been on best terms with such countrys, The fourth reich is coming to an end, Germany you have been rumbled,

A leopard never changes its spots, NEVER be warned

[green job]

Let the EURO go down in flames. Soon we will have a nice cheap tourist destination.

Yes you are right,,, I have been forward buying funds,including Euros,, The broker advised me to wait until august,as he expects the Euro to

trade at,31 to 32,against the Thai bht, more or less the same as the USD We shall see.

[SheungWan]

'The Greeks are irritated'...

hmmm... hmmm ... of course one immediately thinks "well, these guys sure have a nerve"... but the thing is, German officials have a tendency to be extremely sanctimonious in the way the express their views, especially when they are right. It's OK to be right, but it's not ok to rub it in other people's face with a mouthful of condescension.

There's a way to be right, make your point and yet respect other people's pride, self-respect etc. It's called the diplomatic approach. An approach which our dear German friends have yet to learn, apparently.

First they talked with Tanks, then they talked with Deutschmarks, now how about talking with a measure of respect ? how about realizing that their enormous financial success is due not only to their remarkable capacity for work, discipline, seriousness (all undeniable) but also largely to historical factors ?

The excuses people come up with while ripping off their own state (historically that is....) while cheating their way into the EU and since then a permanent begging bowl, political musical chairs and absolutely no self-respect as far as anyone can see other than playing the victim. Nobody is buying the fake stories now.

[green job]

'The Greeks are irritated'...

hmmm... hmmm ... of course one immediately thinks "well, these guys sure have a nerve"... but the thing is, German officials have a tendency to be extremely sanctimonious in the way the express their views, especially when they are right. It's OK to be right, but it's not ok to rub it in other people's face with a mouthful of condescension.

There's a way to be right, make your point and yet respect other people's pride, self-respect etc. It's called the diplomatic approach. An approach which our dear German friends have yet to learn, apparently.

First they talked with Tanks, then they talked with Deutschmarks, now how about talking with a measure of respect ? how about realizing that their enormous financial success is due not only to their remarkable capacity for work, discipline, seriousness (all undeniable) but also largely to historical factors ?

The excuses people come up with while ripping off their own state (historically that is....) while cheating their way into the EU and since then a permanent begging bowl, political musical chairs and absolutely no self-respect as far as anyone can see other than playing the victim. Nobody is buying the fake stories now.

Germany and the rest of the unelected swine new,,, To put it in a frame,, Its another way for the Germans to conquer a country without war.

BUY IT. Greece no longer has a self government,it is owned by mostly Germany,and also told what to do by Germany.

A Leopard never changes its spots,,,, You have been warned

[manarak]

It is very important that the communists in Greece score no advantage.

They have been odious and insulting from the start, I hope they get absolutely nothing with their disgusting tactics.

[cookee68]

They have been living off everyone's back for a long time, they knew what they were doing, they are not the only ones doing it, kick them out and take what you can from them before you do it, and the tighten other countries borrowing and spending limits, before they jump on the rip you off wagon

[cookee68]

Greece got no intentions of paying anyone back, they are just in it for the ride now, and full of hot air, kick the scumbags out, along with some others

[green job]

Greece got no intentions of paying anyone back, they are just in it for the ride now, and full of hot air, kick the scumbags out, along with some others

The scumbags are the ones that started the whole EU dream,and the Euro,,,, Unelected scum. Most of us new it would all end in tears.

[manarak]

Greece got no intentions of paying anyone back, they are just in it for the ride now, and full of hot air, kick the scumbags out, along with some others

The scumbags are the ones that started the whole EU dream,and the Euro,,,, Unelected scum. Most of us new it would all end in tears.

So, kicking them out should make you happy... me too!

[NeverSure]

Greece got no intentions of paying anyone back, they are just in it for the ride now, and full of hot air, kick the scumbags out, along with some others

The scumbags are the ones that started the whole EU dream,and the Euro,,,, Unelected scum. Most of us new it would all end in tears.

So, kicking them out should make you happy... me too!

When the Euro crashes I plan to buy France. I always liked the Loire Valley, LOL.

[hawker9000]

'The Greeks are irritated'...

hmmm... hmmm ... of course one immediately thinks "well, these guys sure have a nerve"... but the thing is, German officials have a tendency to be extremely sanctimonious in the way the express their views, especially when they are right. It's OK to be right, but it's not ok to rub it in other people's face with a mouthful of condescension.

There's a way to be right, make your point and yet respect other people's pride, self-respect etc. It's called the diplomatic approach. An approach which our dear German friends have yet to learn, apparently.

First they talked with Tanks, then they talked with Deutschmarks, now how about talking with a measure of respect ? how about realizing that their enormous financial success is due not only to their remarkable capacity for work, discipline, seriousness (all undeniable) but also largely to historical factors ?

The excuses people come up with while ripping off their own state (historically that is....) while cheating their way into the EU and since then a permanent begging bowl, political musical chairs and absolutely no self-respect as far as anyone can see other than playing the victim. Nobody is buying the fake stories now.

Germany and the rest of the unelected swine new,,, To put it in a frame,, Its another way for the Germans to conquer a country without war.

BUY IT. Greece no longer has a self government,it is owned by mostly Germany,and also told what to do by Germany.

A Leopard never changes its spots,,,, You have been warned

" Greece no longer has a self government,it is owned by mostly Germany,and also told what to do by Germany."

If so, they sold themselves into slavery. And now, up to their eyeballs in debt, they suddenly want their economic "freedom". Scamming on a national scale.

Germany's only sin, for those ignorant enough to call it that, is being surpassingly productive enough to bankroll the rest of the EU...

[green job]

Greece got no intentions of paying anyone back, they are just in it for the ride now, and full of hot air, kick the scumbags out, along with some others

The scumbags are the ones that started the whole EU dream,and the Euro,,,, Unelected scum. Most of us new it would all end in tears.

So, kicking them out should make you happy... me too!

I dont feel happy for anything to do with this fourth reich,, I feel very sorry for all the misery causd by it. Once again the so called elite tried to create a system to rip off and gouvern people ( very cleaver I dont think ) the only one that seems to of stuck is religion,but they have been rumbled on that one as well, as it is also on the way out,( that is exept for backward ones ) The question is,what will they come up with next?

[manarak]

Greece got no intentions of paying anyone back, they are just in it for the ride now, and full of hot air, kick the scumbags out, along with some others

The scumbags are the ones that started the whole EU dream,and the Euro,,,, Unelected scum. Most of us new it would all end in tears.

So, kicking them out should make you happy... me too!

I dont feel happy for anything to do with this fourth reich,, I feel very sorry for all the misery causd by it. Once again the so called elite tried to create a system to rip off and gouvern people ( very cleaver I dont think ) the only one that seems to of stuck is religion,but they have been rumbled on that one as well, as it is also on the way out,( that is exept for backward ones ) The question is,what will they come up with next?

You do sound like a proper nut job, green job...

What do you have to say about the repeated frauds committed by former Greek government(s)?

And do you know the latest? The Greek now pretend they made an "administrative mistake" and sent the wrong letter to the German government 555 !

[green job]

Answer to Manarak.

YEP thats me a real nut case,,,( their going to take me away ha ha he he ,and all that ) It was and is a German ripp off from the very beginning.... We all know that, many countrys new that,and did not join the Riech Euro,some even tore up the schengen agreement.

I does not matter what you wrongly say about Greece, it is now belongs to the Germans Period .

Deutschland you have been Stung he he, We know how desperate you are to get hold of art and artifacts. ( look how many you stole in WW2 ) So maybe the deal was ok for you??