Israeli Ambassador discusses military cooperation with Thai Defense Minister

[konying]

Thailand should have nothing to do with the murderous Israeli state. Their treatment of Palestinians is disgusting and morally repugnant. Thailand should boycott all things Israeli.

yes, because other arab countries treat fakestinians so well, not to mention everyone else.

I hear Christians get nice jail cell, after being whipped a few hundred times

[konying]

I who went to third grade believe Thailand EU England Russia China have the same trouble with Muslims as Israel

The Muslims just hate non Muslims and different Muslims why can not people understand that

Because it takes away hating jews from bigots.

[Morch]

Plowman you have a brain wash. Check out and find that the most human wrights for Arabs moslims are in Israel. Look around for the Arab countries and see how they killed their brothers and then talk about apartheid. I don't think you can understand it with your brain wash of yours.

The most human rights for Arab Muslims are in Israel!!! Would you like to provide some evidence? The blockade of Paelestine which starves men, women and children and prevents Palestinians from advancing their lives in any way is obviously not a human right!!!??? The illegal war against Pelestine a few months ago where thousands of Palestinians were murdered in return for a few Israeli deaths??? Brainwashing!!! I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror because the evidence and statistics for that brief, murderous, war are stacked against your claim of human rights!! How about the right to life??? The right to equal opportunites...I could go on...I'm sure there'll be others along to help me out here....

Most Arab and Muslim countries are not very receptive to human rights groups activity within their borders. Many of the human rights groups in Israel concerned with the Palestinians are actually Israeli.

Of course, in your world, the blockade on Gaza and subsequent military campaigns got nothing to do with actions taken by Hamas. That you declare it an "illegal war" (whatever that actually means), does not, in fact, make it illegal. Not even if you use a lot of exclamation marks.

[Morch]

Thailand should have nothing to do with the murderous Israeli state. Their treatment of Palestinians is disgusting and morally repugnant. Thailand should boycott all things Israeli.

Yeah, and bring back all of them Thai workers making a living in Israel. Cancel the visas for all Israeli tourists as well.

Thailand does not normally take big moral decisions when it comes down to it. Playing it safe and seeing what other countries do first, then follow suit. Same thing with the decision to recognize Palestine. Took their time.

Considering Thailand itself is far from being an international beacon of morality (as are most countries fully boycotting Israel) - why would anyone expect Thailand to take a stand on a conflict which does got no bearing on it?

[Morch]

One may or may not like Israel, but it can hardly be denied that they are very effective militarily, given in particular their small size and limited resources, and that is NOT just because of the long-distance protection from the US. A casual onlooker will observe that Thailand is 15 times the size of Israel and has a much different surface and border. I am sure they will have thought about that. On the whole, it is much better to have a small non-block country like Israel as an advisor than the big rambling US with all their political-military interest. Israel has peak technology and state-of-the-art equipment, but they work a low-key and low-cost way, much better for Thailand. The other significant difference between advisor and advised, and that worries me, comes down to mentality. An Israeli is virtually incorruptible. A Thai is not. There are many reasons for that, such as, the comfortable salary that the Israeli gets, his/her religion, the knowledge that "we must hang together or we will hang separately". These things are absent in Thailand. In short, Israeli advice will not be very effective unless you deploy israeli officials as well.

What war is Thailand going to be engaged in? Why do we need to be 'more effective' militarily? Are we thinking of invading Myanmar? Isn't coooperation with the US enough....the number one military power?

No-one with any sort of functioning moral compass should have dealings with Israel until they start treating the Palestinians decently.

Thailand got this...thing, in the South...or so I hear.

Then there's porous borders, human trafficking, drug trade and probably a few other issues.

Most Western countries cooperate with Israel. So do a couple of its immediate Arab neighbors. What's your take on their moral compass and why should Thailand take a moral lead on something which does not directly concern the kingdom?

[Morch]

One may or may not like Israel, but it can hardly be denied that they are very effective militarily, given in particular their small size and limited resources, and that is NOT just because of the long-distance protection from the US. A casual onlooker will observe that Thailand is 15 times the size of Israel and has a much different surface and border. I am sure they will have thought about that. On the whole, it is much better to have a small non-block country like Israel as an advisor than the big rambling US with all their political-military interest. Israel has peak technology and state-of-the-art equipment, but they work a low-key and low-cost way, much better for Thailand. The other significant difference between advisor and advised, and that worries me, comes down to mentality. An Israeli is virtually incorruptible. A Thai is not. There are many reasons for that, such as, the comfortable salary that the Israeli gets, his/her religion, the knowledge that "we must hang together or we will hang separately". These things are absent in Thailand. In short, Israeli advice will not be very effective unless you deploy israeli officials as well.

An Israeli is virtually incorruptible.

Is that so? There are actually quite a few documented cases that counter this assertion.

Not as bad as Thailand, but not much different than the rest of the World.

Israeli firms ply their trade all over the globe, pretty much the same as other firms do.

The results for Thailand will not be different if these were Western firms or whatever.

More to do with Thailand.

[Johpa]

The most human rights for Arab Muslims are in Israel!!! Would you like to provide some evidence? The blockade of Paelestine which starves men, women and children and prevents Palestinians from advancing their lives in any way is obviously not a human right!!!??? The illegal war against Pelestine a few months ago where thousands of Palestinians were murdered in return for a few Israeli deaths??? Brainwashing!!! I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror because the evidence and statistics for that brief, murderous, war are stacked against your claim of human rights!! How about the right to life??? The right to equal opportunites...I could go on...I'm sure there'll be others along to help me out here....

Israeli Arabs, many Muslim with some being Christians and Druze, do arguably have more rights within Israel than within neighboring states. There is no blockade of Palestine as there is no "Palestine". There is a varying naval blockade of Gaza, which can and should be debated, but that has little bearing upon rights of Muslims within Israel proper. But there is no starvation occurring in Gaza. Alas, Gaza, like Southern Thailand, is a seriously screwed up place suffering from the cruel vagaries of history.

I am not sure what you mean by "thousands of Palestinians were murdered in return for a few Israeli deaths", a most awkward phrase. But perhaps you are one of those arguing that Israel should have just allowed the rockets to rain down and accept some more deaths without any response. If so, how many deaths would you suggest before allowing for a response? So yes, there are others here, happy to help you out to note and see more balance, to see that both sides are in the wrong and when you take any one side you end up wrong too. I don't have any answers as my appeals to a Gandhian movement of non-violence have been ignored.

[German Viking]

Coincidence? Be careful Thailand. Very fishy connection here.

After the big brother loosing control, the youngest wants to get into the scene.

When China and the US are courting Burma....and Muslims have a big eye in South Thailand.

Muslim are creating big social problems in Europe, also in Italy. Thailand do not need to be in that mess....but..may be..with the wrong "help".

Thailand don't need any help how to messing up with muslims, the do it for decades already.

[German Viking]

Are they going to share submarines?

Oh good germany have 1 finished produced already, the greek cannot pay for it, newests technology, but I doubt that Israel can pay cash and Thailand not either.

[German Viking]

India and Israel have recently greatly strengthened their relations. They were already good historically but now they are being stepped up a lot. It's a win win. Israel has advanced technology in military, medical, and agriculture. Israeli agriculture experts are actively helping improve crop yields in various Indian regions, and succeeding ... remember making the desert bloom? Thailand can also benefit from closer friendship with Israel. Israel and Asian nations are natural friends ... short of a few countries that explicitly hate Israel like Malaysia.

Despite the recent political spat, Israel and the USA remain the closest of friends, but it is in Israel's interests to have diverse friends and trade partners especially considering the "BDS" movement that is growing mostly in Europe.

No, Israel is not an apartheid state but it is far from perfect either.

Is your country perfect?

9:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hautypzGuRs

yes "making the desert bloom?" and drying out the Jordan in the same time.

[englishoak]

Perhaps Israel are advising Thailand about the benefits of Berlin wall building and its application in the south. Sounds just like the kind of stupid solution the junta would consider

[djjamie]

Perhaps Israel are advising Thailand about the benefits of Berlin wall building and its application in the south. Sounds just like the kind of stupid solution the junta would consider

Interesting reply and I agree.

The immense success the Junta have had in the South with the reduction of violence by over 50% (fake news stories anyone? of if the news stories are real it is due to flooding?) shows that military cooperation with Israel will benefit Isreal.

To reduce terrorist attacks in Bangkok from 30 deaths and over 700 injuries month over a 7 month period to zero overnight without a single bullet being fired shows that the Junta have some peaceful initiatives to be offered to Israel.

Edited February 20, 2015 by djjamie

[German Viking]

I wonder where the new palestine will be.

Very simple south of Thailand as a buffer state between Thailand und Malaysia.

Would be an interesting configuration.

[German Viking]

Plowman you have a brain wash. Check out and find that the most human wrights for Arabs moslims are in Israel. Look around for the Arab countries and see how they killed their brothers and then talk about apartheid. I don't think you can understand it with your brain wash of yours.

The most human rights for Arab Muslims are in Israel!!! Would you like to provide some evidence? The blockade of Paelestine which starves men, women and children and prevents Palestinians from advancing their lives in any way is obviously not a human right!!!??? The illegal war against Pelestine a few months ago where thousands of Palestinians were murdered in return for a few Israeli deaths??? Brainwashing!!! I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror because the evidence and statistics for that brief, murderous, war are stacked against your claim of human rights!! How about the right to life??? The right to equal opportunites...I could go on...I'm sure there'll be others along to help me out here....

Arabs living in Israel have greater human rights than in any Arab country. They vote, there are Arabs in the Knesset, Arab women in Israel have the rights of women in normal countries, they're allowed to vote, drive a car and voice an opinion. There are Arabs in the Israeli military... More plaestinian kids get treated in Israeli hospitals than in Palestinian (or Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian) hospitals. Israel has been treating wounded/injured displaced Syrians in their military and civilian hospitals in Gaza. Israel pays millions of dollars into Palestine for infrastructure, most of which gets taken by Hamas to build concrete tunnels etc. Equal opportunities in Israel are just that, equal. An Israeli Arab can marry an Israeli Jew, tell me how many Arab countries allow marriage to a Jews? The "illegal" war against "Palestine" - a country which does not exist by the way, I think you meant Gaza but who knows.. please tell me who started it? Who fired the first barrage of rockets? A couple of weeks ago a Hamas terrorist murdered 4 Jews praying in a Synagogue, 3 of these guys were Rabbis. Two of these guys were American. A month or so ago terrorists stopped a car with an Israeli guy taking his yourn daughter home. They torched the car and the young girl had 80% burns.. How often do you hear about Jews or Israelis doing stuff like this? Once in a few years maybe at most. Have you even been to the area? Have you been to Israel? Have you been to Gaza? All you know is nonsense you read from anti-Israel media. Do you know ANYTHING about the area? Do you know anything about the history of the area? Educate yourself properly before making these ridiculous statements and then you won't apprear to be such a helmet.

You are 100% rights a lot of ppl are just brainwashed by anti jewish press.

I remember, when the PLO came in power decades ago, with Arafat you could deal, he was moderate compare to Hamas, they are just Terroists, nothing else.

Dry out their sources, only the EU spend every year over 500 Mill. Euro for GAZA(HAMAS), the most money is spend to build new tunnels and bunkers and to buy weapons.

If you dry the money sources out, then the Hamas will be kicked out of GAZA, by their own ppl.

[German Viking]

Funny, the response of some people to a discussion b/w the Israeli ambassador and a Thai minister. Where is the outrage from those same people for cemented agreements b/w Thailand and the genocidal oligarchy in Beijing? Or the recently announced military ties with the Russian dictator, Putin, who is currently invading another country? Or the opening of dialogue with North Korea? Nope. Not a peep. Only when it's Israel is it a problem for these people. Now, I wonder just who is it that lives in Israel that is such a problem for these critics?

Israel certainly deserves to be on the list of countries you mention. Its treatment of the Palestinians is disgraceful - particularly when Israelis, more than any others, are aware of what its like to be persecuted and mistreated by genocidal oppressors -SHAME ON THEM!

Actually, there is disgraceful behavior happening on both sides of that conflict. If Thailand is to reject Israel based on your reasons shall they also reject "Palestine" based on their terrorism activities, oppression of women and gays, using children as expendable pawns to intentionally operate military operations among them, human sacrifice of them in tunnel building, etc.?

Thailand is acting sensibly on this keeping the self interest of Thailand foremost in their policy. They are not taking sides in a decades long conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. Why should they?

If you insist on going back in history, perhaps you didn't know that the most powerful Palestinian Arab during World War 2 was living in Berlin, allied with Hitler, and openly advocating genocide of both European and Middle Eastern Jews.

Could you provide a link about Palestinian Arab activity during WWII in Berlin?

[Don Aleman]

Yeah ! Like there are many nations poised to attack Thailand for it's vast resources. The new combat jets/inflated airship/submarines and sniper rifles should fend off any encroachers.

[German Viking]

I who went to third grade believe Thailand EU England Russia China have the same trouble with Muslims as Israel

The Muslims just hate non Muslims and different Muslims why can not people understand that

Like a Turkish said to me, several years ago, in the late middle age, we tried to take over europe by war, unsuccessfully.

Now we will take it over by birth, he is right. it's only a question of time.

[German Viking]

Thailand should have nothing to do with the murderous Israeli state. Their treatment of Palestinians is disgusting and morally repugnant. Thailand should boycott all things Israeli.

yes, because other arab countries treat fakestinians so well, not to mention everyone else.

I hear Christians get nice jail cell, after being whipped a few hundred times

Only in the case they survive these whippings.

[German Viking]

I who went to third grade believe Thailand EU England Russia China have the same trouble with Muslims as Israel

The Muslims just hate non Muslims and different Muslims why can not people understand that

Because it takes away hating jews from bigots.

Guys, guys, guys, this conflicts are in general not a question of religions, the religions are only misused as an excuse.

Take the jews, and all christians out of the middleeast, the muslims will kill each other, like they do in Syria and other states already.

The religion is not the cause, only an excuse.

[Jingthing]

Funny, the response of some people to a discussion b/w the Israeli ambassador and a Thai minister. Where is the outrage from those same people for cemented agreements b/w Thailand and the genocidal oligarchy in Beijing? Or the recently announced military ties with the Russian dictator, Putin, who is currently invading another country? Or the opening of dialogue with North Korea? Nope. Not a peep. Only when it's Israel is it a problem for these people. Now, I wonder just who is it that lives in Israel that is such a problem for these critics?

Israel certainly deserves to be on the list of countries you mention. Its treatment of the Palestinians is disgraceful - particularly when Israelis, more than any others, are aware of what its like to be persecuted and mistreated by genocidal oppressors -SHAME ON THEM!

Actually, there is disgraceful behavior happening on both sides of that conflict. If Thailand is to reject Israel based on your reasons shall they also reject "Palestine" based on their terrorism activities, oppression of women and gays, using children as expendable pawns to intentionally operate military operations among them, human sacrifice of them in tunnel building, etc.?

Thailand is acting sensibly on this keeping the self interest of Thailand foremost in their policy. They are not taking sides in a decades long conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs. Why should they?

If you insist on going back in history, perhaps you didn't know that the most powerful Palestinian Arab during World War 2 was living in Berlin, allied with Hitler, and openly advocating genocide of both European and Middle Eastern Jews.

Could you provide a link about Palestinian Arab activity during WWII in Berlin?

The Nazi stuff begins about 29:00. Particularly 35:30, 37:45

Edited February 20, 2015 by Jingthing

[German Viking]

The most human rights for Arab Muslims are in Israel!!! Would you like to provide some evidence? The blockade of Paelestine which starves men, women and children and prevents Palestinians from advancing their lives in any way is obviously not a human right!!!??? The illegal war against Pelestine a few months ago where thousands of Palestinians were murdered in return for a few Israeli deaths??? Brainwashing!!! I suggest you take a long hard look in the mirror because the evidence and statistics for that brief, murderous, war are stacked against your claim of human rights!! How about the right to life??? The right to equal opportunites...I could go on...I'm sure there'll be others along to help me out here....

Israeli Arabs, many Muslim with some being Christians and Druze, do arguably have more rights within Israel than within neighboring states. There is no blockade of Palestine as there is no "Palestine". There is a varying naval blockade of Gaza, which can and should be debated, but that has little bearing upon rights of Muslims within Israel proper. But there is no starvation occurring in Gaza. Alas, Gaza, like Southern Thailand, is a seriously screwed up place suffering from the cruel vagaries of history.

I am not sure what you mean by "thousands of Palestinians were murdered in return for a few Israeli deaths", a most awkward phrase. But perhaps you are one of those arguing that Israel should have just allowed the rockets to rain down and accept some more deaths without any response. If so, how many deaths would you suggest before allowing for a response? So yes, there are others here, happy to help you out to note and see more balance, to see that both sides are in the wrong and when you take any one side you end up wrong too. I don't have any answers as my appeals to a Gandhian movement of non-violence have been ignored.

You are 100% right with your comments about Israel etc., but not with Gandhi, good things lasting seldom long time, caused humans are violent.

As long so many uneducated ppl existing who still believing, that when they die during Dschihad, that they going direct in paradise and 92 virgins waiting for each of this will never stop.

More speachless making me ppl from non muslim countries, who are supposed to having a much better education, but still believing the bull$hit what their government tell them, and running into unneccessary wars.

[pkspeaker]

Nice lie, the Palestinians that are confined to disconnected west bank bantustans and Gaza, are not "israeli's' therefore they do not have the right to vote, and most residential neighborhoods even in israel proper, use descriminatory practices to keep arabs out and only in their own overcrowded villages..Israeli human rights orgs like btselem document racist israeli laws, which number more than 50 and that's just in israel proper.. the occupation scheme in the west bank is aphartheid to the extreme. why bother even denying that israel is a racist aphartheid state..

If everyone in israel/palestine had equal rights, them palestinians would have appox half the seats in the knesset-which would then be called the parliament, also gone would be israel's racist laws that make this predomenetly arab country a 'jewish state' the whole reason there is a '2 state solution' being talked about for the last 30 years is that it is an attempt to end israel's aphartheid system.. if there were no aphartheid than the solution to the conflict would be to simply give the palestinians citizenship with equal rights.

Fantastic, the Israelis can teach the Junta how to set up an apartheid state.

Why would you say that? The reference to a apartheid refers to the policy that denied a majority of citizens of South Africa the right to vote and segregated residential areas and services based upon skin pigmentation. As all Israelis have the right to vote, including arabs, who have elected several members of the Israeli parliament; there is are laws enforced which prohibit discrimination based upon race, religion, sexual orientation etc ,; the state of Israel subsidizes education including several arab language technical colleges and university;. and there are many diverse neighborhoods in Israel such as Haifa where everyone mixes, I don't know why you apply such a term unless you are simply trying to cause a bit of trouble. Perhaps this was just your attempt to get in a swipe at Israel, much as is done at the USA on these threads, but it is rather silly now that we see what is going on around the world isn't it?

The fact is that Thailand has long had serious needs when it comes to tracking offshore marine vessels. The Thai navy cannot effectively track these boats and that is one of the reason why the human smuggling rings have such an easy time landing people in Thailand. In addition, the recent Malaysian and Air Asia air tragedies demonstrated that Thailand does not have much of an ability to effectively monitor its offshore airspace. Israel would love to bid on the tracking programs that the various EU, American Japanese and recently Indian companies have been trying to sell. At this time there are no sanctions in place that would prevent such a transaction. Thailand would benefit from some Israeli drone technology that could be deployed along the Burmese border in the fight against the import of yaba. The Israeli technology could also be used to help secure the Malaysian border which is porous and through which southern insurgents seem to transit with ease.

Edited February 21, 2015 by pkspeaker

[Jingthing]

Nice lie, the Palestinians that are confined to disconnected west bank bantustans and Gaza, are not "israeli's' therefore they do not have the right to vote, and most residential neighborhoods even in israel proper, use descriminatory practices to keep arabs out and only in their own overcrowded villages..Israeli human rights orgs like btselem document racist israeli laws, which number more than 50 and that's just in israel proper.. the occupation scheme in the west bank is aphartheid to the extreme. why bother even denying that israel is a racist aphartheid state..

If everyone in israel/palestine had equal rights, them palestinians would have appox half the seats in the knesset-which would then be called the parliament, also gone would be israel's racist laws that make this predomenetly arab country a 'jewish state' the whole reason there is a '2 state solution' being talked about for the last 30 years is that it is an attempt to end israel's aphartheid system.. if there were no aphartheid than the solution to the conflict would be to simply give the palestinians citizenship with equal rights.

Sure thing, mate.

Using the word apartheid implies that there is equivalency between apartheid South Africa and Israel.

But the situations are very much different.

it's more useful to focus on the specific details of Israel rather than throwing around demonizing words which only mislead and suggest a South African equivalency which never existed and doesn't exist now.

You are correct, the Israeli Arabs (20 percent of the population, hardly a trivial or "token" number) are Israeli citizens and the Arabs in Gaza and West Bank are not Israeli citizens and those are the areas that would (more or less) comprise any future potential Palestinian state.

This is a very specific situation.

To be clear, I personally am not defending the west bank settlement program but just think it's better to be more fair about how these things are described.

Uh oh ... the Israel demonizers would call this separate "apartheid" water fountains!

Edited February 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[Soutpeel]

Nice lie, the Palestinians that are confined to disconnected west bank bantustans and Gaza, are not "israeli's' therefore they do not have the right to vote, and most residential neighborhoods even in israel proper, use descriminatory practices to keep arabs out and only in their own overcrowded villages..Israeli human rights orgs like btselem document racist israeli laws, which number more than 50 and that's just in israel proper.. the occupation scheme in the west bank is aphartheid to the extreme. why bother even denying that israel is a racist aphartheid state..

If everyone in israel/palestine had equal rights, them palestinians would have appox half the seats in the knesset-which would then be called the parliament, also gone would be israel's racist laws that make this predomenetly arab country a 'jewish state' the whole reason there is a '2 state solution' being talked about for the last 30 years is that it is an attempt to end israel's aphartheid system.. if there were no aphartheid than the solution to the conflict would be to simply give the palestinians citizenship with equal rights.

Sure thing, mate.

Using the word apartheid implies that there is equivalency between apartheid South Africa and Israel.

But the situations are very much different.

it's more useful to focus on the specific details of Israel rather than throwing around demonizing words which only mislead and suggest a South African equivalency which never existed and doesn't exist now.

You are correct, the Israeli Arabs (20 percent of the population, hardly a trivial or "token" number) are Israeli citizens and the Arabs in Gaza and West Bank are not Israeli citizens and those are the areas that would (more or less) comprise any future potential Palestinian state.

This is a very specific situation.

To be clear, I personally am not defending the west bank settlement program but just think it's better to be more fair about how these things are described.

Uh oh ... the Israel demonizers would call this separate "apartheid" water fountains!

The ironic thing is the Israeli government was in bed with the National Party in South African during apartheid, and both were mutually sympathetic to each others "plights" to the point there was direct co-operation between both governments, to name but a few areas, licensing the rights to SA for the Galil ARM assault rifle to produce a local variant in SA called the R-5 and of course the "co-operation" that was going on between SA and Israel in developing South African's nuclear warheads...

I can assure there are very pronounced similarities between Apartheid SA and what is going on in Israel and the comparison by "pkspeaker" is warranted and valid...

Edited February 21, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Jingthing]

Who are you to "assure" this? Is any previous friendship to the apartheid S.A. government shameful? Yes, it is. I imagine there were several countries in that category. What does pushing the lie that Israel's situation is equivalent to apartheid South Africa accomplish? In my view, just another game to irrationally demonize Israel, looking at the situation superficially as if its a black and white situation, in other words the opposite of helpful.

There really is plenty to legitimately criticize about the government policies of Israel (as well as the policies and actions of the Palestinian leadership) without resorting to demonizing labeling tricks ... calling Israel an apartheid state, calling Israelis all racist, calling Israel the same as Nazi Germany.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[Plowman]

Who are you to "assure" this? Is any previous friendship to the apartheid S.A. government shameful? Yes, it is. I imagine there were several countries in that category. What does pushing the lie that Israel's situation is equivalent to apartheid South Africa accomplish? In my view, just another game to irrationally demonize Israel, looking at the situation superficially as if its a black and white situation, in other words the opposite of helpful.

Israels actions demonise (and condemn) Israel! Disgraceful nation who's existence should be rightfully questioned.

[Jingthing]

Who are you to "assure" this? Is any previous friendship to the apartheid S.A. government shameful? Yes, it is. I imagine there were several countries in that category. What does pushing the lie that Israel's situation is equivalent to apartheid South Africa accomplish? In my view, just another game to irrationally demonize Israel, looking at the situation superficially as if its a black and white situation, in other words the opposite of helpful.

Israels actions demonise (and condemn) Israel! Disgraceful nation who's existence should be rightfully questioned.

Yes it well understood that many of the "critics" of Israel are really about actively supporting the end of Israel. Some are open about it and some try to hide the true intentions.

How dare those Jews have the chutzpah to finally assert their political self determination in a nation state? We certainly can never accept that ...

No problem with scads of Islamic dominated states ... after all they are so well behaved ... but the Jews, one tiny state ... can't allow that!

Edited February 21, 2015 by Jingthing

[Plowman]

Who are you to "assure" this? Is any previous friendship to the apartheid S.A. government shameful? Yes, it is. I imagine there were several countries in that category. What does pushing the lie that Israel's situation is equivalent to apartheid South Africa accomplish? In my view, just another game to irrationally demonize Israel, looking at the situation superficially as if its a black and white situation, in other words the opposite of helpful.

Israels actions demonise (and condemn) Israel! Disgraceful nation who's existence should be rightfully questioned.

Yes it well understood that many of the "critics" of Israel are really about actively supporting the end of Israel. Some are open about it and some try to hide the true intentions.

How dare those Jews have the chutzpah to finally assert their political self determination in a nation state? We certainly can never accept that ...

No problem with scads of Islamic dominated states ... after all they are so well behaved ... but the Jews, one tiny state ... can't allow that!

The mythic “land without people for a people without land” was already home to 700,000 Palestinians in 1919.

“Palestine became a predominately Arab and Islamic country by the end of the seventh century. Almost immediately thereafter its boundaries and its characteristics — including its name in Arabic, Filastin — became known to the entire Islamic world, as much for its fertility and beauty as for its religious significance...In 1516, Palestine became a province of the Ottoman Empire, but this made it no less fertile, no less Arab or Islamic...Sixty percent of the population was in agriculture; the balance was divided between townspeople and a relatively small nomadic group. All these people believed themselves to belong in a land called Palestine, despite their feelings that they were also members of a large Arab nation...Despite the steady arrival in Palestine of Jewish colonists after 1882, it is important to realize that not until the few weeks immediately preceding the establishment of Israel in the spring of 1948 was there ever anything other than a huge Arab majority. For example, the Jewish population in 1931 was 174,606 against a total of 1,033,314.” Edward Said, “The Question of Palestine.”

[Soutpeel]

Who are you to "assure" this? Is any previous friendship to the apartheid S.A. government shameful? Yes, it is. I imagine there were several countries in that category. What does pushing the lie that Israel's situation is equivalent to apartheid South Africa accomplish? In my view, just another game to irrationally demonize Israel, looking at the situation superficially as if its a black and white situation, in other words the opposite of helpful.

There really is plenty to legitimately criticize about the government policies of Israel (as well as the policies and actions of the Palestinian leadership) without resorting to demonizing labeling tricks ... calling Israel an apartheid state, calling Israelis all racist, calling Israel the same as Nazi Germany.

Oh so its lies and demonizing labeling tricks?...tut tut JT

there are direct parallels between what National party got up into in SA during apartheid and what Israel has go up to just one example for instance the planned forced removals of Bedouin from their ancestral lands in 2010 - Echo's of district 6 removals in South Africa

One could also suggest Gaza echos of the homelands created in SA during Apartheid and for your further reading pleasure an article concluding the same thing...

http://electronicintifada.net/content/south-african-study-israel-practicing-apartheid-and-colonialism/3432

http://electronicintifada.net/content/south-african-speaker-says-israel-apartheid-state/1142

Edited February 21, 2015 by Soutpeel

[Jingthing]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition Electronic Intifada!

Look dudes, apartheid South Africa was apartheid South Africa.

Modern Israel is modern Israel.

Different histories.

Different present times.

Different futures.

Edited February 21, 2015 by Jingthing