Historic US-Iran nuclear deal could be taking shape

[johna]

It must be said again and again that Iran is not building a nuclear weapon, nor has it made any decision to build such a weapon

Any sensible person will disregard anything else you have to say on the subject, after reading this.

The Israeli intelligence service,Mossad has said Iran does not have and is not building a nuclear weapon.

Netanyaho is a pathological liar,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odws5sg6dio&feature=em-uploademail

[Steely Dan]

Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. ISIS is scary, but an Iran armed with nuclear weapons is MUCH more so.

And the POTUS simply shrugs, lights the blue touch paper and hopes the fuse is long enough for it to blow after he leaves office.

[Seastallion]

You are comparing, denying that Iran is trying to develop nukes, to not agreeing with Obama's failed foreign policy? Sorry, but It sounds like you don't read any news AT ALL.

They don't have a nuke.

They have not decided to build a nuke.

The U.S. says it will not allow them to build a nuke.

Obama is hashing out a deal right now.

Still not good enough for the chronic cases here.

"They don't have a nuke.

They have not decided to build a nuke."

These are wide sweeping comments without basis in fact. Provide some proof of your allegations.

Or you could contradict him with your own proof.

But you don't have that do you?

The evidence to date is that Netanyahu lied about Iran's weapons ambitions, and there is no evidence to say that Iran does have weapons ambitions.

[Thorgal]

Please don't publish Israeli, Jewish media sources to backup the nuke deal.

Nothing much media remains unbiased...

Edited February 24, 2015 by Thorgal

[Seastallion]

"They don't have a nuke.

They have not decided to build a nuke."

These are wide sweeping comments without basis in fact. Provide some proof of your allegations.

How much plainer can it get?

" Iran “does not appear to be ready” to enrich uranium to the higher levels necessary for nuclear weapons " Mossad report

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/23/leaked-spy-cables-netanyahu-iran-bomb-mossad

No wonder the Iranians hate the Israelis. The Israelis have been trying to lure the US into Nuking Iran.

Your imagination knows no bounds.

Answer the question. Where is your proof that Iran has no nuclear weapons and has no plans to build one?

Where is your proof that Iran currently does have nuclear weapons ambitions? Netanyahu?

[chuckd]

You are comparing, denying that Iran is trying to develop nukes, to not agreeing with Obama's failed foreign policy? Sorry, but It sounds like you don't read any news AT ALL.

They don't have a nuke.

They have not decided to build a nuke.

The U.S. says it will not allow them to build a nuke.

Obama is hashing out a deal right now.

Still not good enough for the chronic cases here.

"They don't have a nuke.

They have not decided to build a nuke."

These are wide sweeping comments without basis in fact. Provide some proof of your allegations.

Or you could contradict him with your own proof.

But you don't have that do you?

The evidence to date is that Netanyahu lied about Iran's weapons ambitions, and there is no evidence to say that Iran does have weapons ambitions.

I don't need to provide any proof. Your side did that when they made the link to begin with.

Why do I need to hammer one's toes when they have already shot themselves in the foot?

My suggestion is if somebody is going to use a document for a "gotcha" moment, they should probably read all the way through to the end of the document to see what else it says.

[Seastallion]

They don't have a nuke.

They have not decided to build a nuke.

The U.S. says it will not allow them to build a nuke.

Obama is hashing out a deal right now.

Still not good enough for the chronic cases here.

"They don't have a nuke.

They have not decided to build a nuke."

These are wide sweeping comments without basis in fact. Provide some proof of your allegations.

Or you could contradict him with your own proof.

But you don't have that do you?

The evidence to date is that Netanyahu lied about Iran's weapons ambitions, and there is no evidence to say that Iran does have weapons ambitions.

I don't need to provide any proof. Your side did that when they made the link to begin with.

Why do I need to hammer one's toes when they have already shot themselves in the foot?

My suggestion is if somebody is going to use a document for a "gotcha" moment, they should probably read all the way through to the end of the document to see what else it says.

Your "proof" ("The key words being..." allow renewal of the activity necessary to produce weapons immediately when the Iranian leadership decides to do so.""), says it nicely. Iran does NOT have nukes albeit they could resume ambition IF they decided to.

So, when a poster says that they do not, and have not decided to, and you assert he has no "basis in fact" and then point out that he DOES have basis in fact on both counts..........Where are you going with this?

My suggestion is if somebody is going to quote a document for a "gotcha" moment, they should comprehend the words before asserting something entirely different to what they are quoting.

[ggold]

Now might this action be viewed as a little bit of leverage,a move designed to bring Iran on side and thus ensure that Iranian assistance is solid in assisting in containing and ultimately destroying the ISIS movement?

A wise political move and on the face of it a positive one, that could well be the catalyst that hopefully will a ensure a more peaceful world and a lack of religious terrorist groups of all persuasions..

While making Gulf state allies nervous about Iran aquiring nukes! And giving them a dominant role in the area. yeh thats going to work, NOT.

Obama, might make a deal, But the Iranians will break any agreement, and they are still to supply info on their nuke ambitions.

Obama is a fool and History will show that.

[chuckd]

Here is yet another position on what is driving the talks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama ‘under pressure’ to reach nuclear agreement with Iran: Analyst

Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:38PM

“It’s quite obvious to everyone that Mr. Obama would like to have a deal with Iran,” said James George Jatras, a former US diplomat and adviser to the Senate Republican leadership.

“He’s under a lot of pressure to try to bring negotiations to a conclusion that he can defend domestically,” Jatras said Sunday during a phone interview with Press TV.

“I doubt very much that the United States would walk away from the negotiations because this is such a strong priority for Mr. Obama who otherwise has very little to show in the realm of foreign policy,” he added.

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/02/22/398758/Obama-wants-nuclear-pact-with-Iran

[Jai Dee]

Comments about moderation have been removed from this thread.

Please use the report function to alert mods to objectionable content thanks.

[Ulysses G.]

Obama under pressure to reach nuclear agreement with Iran: Analyst

Krauthammer always nails it:

Charles Krauthammer said Friday on Special Report with Bret Baier that President Obama is "negotiating out of weakness and desperation" when he says that Congress must hold off on imposing new sanctions on Iran while the administration continues to negotiate a nuclear deal with that country.

"[Obama] says, 'nobody doubts that I have the ability to get new sanctions. True," the syndicated columnist and Fox News contributor said. "But nobody in the world believes that he has the willingness to get these sanctions.

"Nobody, including the Iranians, has any faith in the fact that he will actually impose sanctions. The Iranians know that, and that's why they know that he's negotiating out of weakness and desperation."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/16/krauthammer-obama-negotiating-out-weakness-and-desperation-with-iran-986510208/

[chuckd]

While we are just kicking things around (me mostly), let me pose another question to the teeming throng of Israel haters.

Do you think Iran getting a deal made with the US will lead to a nuclear arms race among all states in the Middle East?

It will most assuredly lead to Iran becoming a nuclear armed state, but what about the others?

Will they? Won't they. Should they? shouldn't they?

[Publicus]

Do you have any "leaked" cables from 2013 forward?

Yeah, I thought not.

Does Mossad have any motivation or reason to lie?

Does Netanyahu have any motivation or reason to lie?

Of course they do. They are surrounded by millions of people that seek their demise.

I expect even some of the "truth seekers" on this forum would prevaricate under the same circumstances the Israel people have been living under since 1948.

While you, and others, tout this "leaked: intelligence report, permit me to ask if you actually read the report?

If you did, then you would have noticed how the report ends.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weapons

15. Until 2003 there was a set nuclear program in Iran for R&D of nuclear weapons under the Iranian Defense Ministry which was called the AMAD Plan. The plan was reduced following exposure of the nuclear program and concern about militaryattack

16. In 2011, many scientists from the AMAD program formed an organization called SPND, also under the auspices of the Defense Ministry. At the head of the organization is Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, former head of AMAD.

17. The organization was established for the purposes of preserving the technological ability and the joint organizational framework for the Iranian scientists in the area of R&D of nuclear weapons, and for the purposes of retaining the skills of the scientists. This is (sic) allow renewal of the activity necessary to produce weapons immediately when the Iranian leadership decides to do so.

18. Kind regards.

http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/1424713149380/Mossad-On-Iran-Nuclear-Stat.pdf

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The key words being..." allow renewal of the activity necessary to produce weapons immediately when the Iranian leadership decides to do so."

If our President and State Department, along with the other members of the P5+1, so eloquently described by another poster, are so naive as to believe there is no weapons program, inactive as it may appear, and that Iran will faithfully follow the terms of any treaty, then they are sadly misguided.

The Mullahs will stop at nothing to obtain nuclear weapons and there is nothing short of military action that will deter them from doing so...treaty be damned.

Israel does indeed need support for its continued existence and it is very good that support is always forthcoming from the United States. In the interest of a bipartisan unity concerning Israel, Democratic party senior Senators Dick Durbin and Dianne Fienstein have invited Bibi to a private meeting with the the two when he is in Washington next week to give the congress its instructions.

The report in the post is a couple of years old and the points #15-18 presented in the post describe a kind of Iranian boys' club of nerds which one could consider to be inevitable anywhere.

The IAEA as of January 20th reports that Iran has complied with the Joint Action Plan of last autumn in the following crucial respects:

Halted enrichment of uranium F6 to the agreed 20%

The four cascades at the Fordow Plant will be enriched to only 5%

Continues to refrain from installing a reconversion line for uranium oxides

Continued to provide daily inspection access to Nantenz and Fordow

Provided regular managed access to centrifuge assembly workshops,

centrifuge rotor production workshops and storage facilities, and provided information thereon;

IAEA verified continuing safeguarded research and development practices with no

accumulation of uranium

Inspectors completed visits to the Gchine Mine, the Saghand Mine, the Ardarkan Uranium production plant

IAEA has installed surveillance equipment to operate 24/7 instead of only weekly at the Nantanz and the Fordow Plants

Refrained from commissioning the heavy water reactor at Arak and agreed to visits

Ceased further advances at the Nantanz Enrichment Plant......

...........

The list gets very long because there's a lot more so check it out....

http://www.armscontrol.org/Implementation-of-the-Joint-Plan-of-Action-At-A-Glance

The long and the short of it is that the intelligence services of the P5+1 contradict Bibi's claims, assertions and juvenile drawings.

[arjunadawn]

Now might this action be viewed as a little bit of leverage,a move designed to bring Iran on side and thus ensure that Iranian assistance is solid in assisting in containing and ultimately destroying the ISIS movement?

A wise political move and on the face of it a positive one, that could well be the catalyst that hopefully will a ensure a more peaceful world and a lack of religious terrorist groups of all persuasions..

Ah... IS was created to manipulate Iran (See Which Path to Persia). The notion that the US aims for "compromise" as the goal says it all. Who buys a car and first aims for compromise? Who negotiates a house by first aiming for compromise? Compromise is often where a wise person ends up, but this should not be the initial act of negotiation. Moreover, some things in this world should not be compromised; that is much of the problem with the US administration. How on earth can one compromise with the greatest sponsor of terrorism on earth, empowered by clerics determined to martial in the return of the Mahdi and trigger Meggido- Armageddon, slaughter and subjugate their sunni neighbors, then impose global islam? Who in their right mind compromises with apocalyptic actors?

Compromising with Shia Iran is no difference than compromising with the Taliban (damn; that's right. We do that now), or compromising with IS. The notion that there are varying shades of bad, or evil, is utterly absurd. Iran is bent on more than local hegemony, Iran would love to continue the battle of Karbala. If one thinks the past is just that, they err greatly. There is simply no precedent in the middle east, persia, or central asia for people to respond to compromise, reason, or common vision. Indeed, compromising with non muslims is anathema to islam!

[Publicus]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Here is yet another position on what is driving the talks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Obama ‘under pressure’ to reach nuclear agreement with Iran: Analyst

Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:38PM

“It’s quite obvious to everyone that Mr. Obama would like to have a deal with Iran,” said James George Jatras, a former US diplomat and adviser to the Senate Republican leadership.

“He’s under a lot of pressure to try to bring negotiations to a conclusion that he can defend domestically,” Jatras said Sunday during a phone interview with Press TV.

“I doubt very much that the United States would walk away from the negotiations because this is such a strong priority for Mr. Obama who otherwise has very little to show in the realm of foreign policy,” he added.

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/02/22/398758/Obama-wants-nuclear-pact-with-Iran

Obama under pressure to reach nuclear agreement with Iran: Analyst

Krauthammer always nails it:

Charles Krauthammer said Friday on Special Report with Bret Baier that President Obama is "negotiating out of weakness and desperation" when he says that Congress must hold off on imposing new sanctions on Iran while the administration continues to negotiate a nuclear deal with that country.

"[Obama] says, 'nobody doubts that I have the ability to get new sanctions. True," the syndicated columnist and Fox News contributor said. "But nobody in the world believes that he has the willingness to get these sanctions.


"Nobody, including the Iranians, has any faith in the fact that he will actually impose sanctions. The Iranians know that, and that's why they know that he's negotiating out of weakness and desperation."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/16/krauthammer-obama-negotiating-out-weakness-and-desperation-with-iran-986510208/

Iran began to negotiate with the P5+1 only after it was ejected in 2012 from the SWIFT electronic banking system in Belgium that facilitates $6 Trillion in global financial transactions daily, to include the Iran central bank.

The ayatollahs need a deal and they need it desperately, which is why they came to the table.

Republicans in the US need desperately to prevent a deal because they cannot allow such a major foreign policy success. After all, after 35 years of Iran and the US hurling bolts of provocations at one another, there are now words coming out of Tehran and Washington such as "positive progress" and "mutual agreement" and the like. Some people just can't stand it, peace breaking out between the US and Iran.

[Ulysses G.]

Republicans in the US need desperately to prevent a deal because they cannot allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons. Too bad that this administration put their own selfish political considerations before that.

[Chicog]

Republicans in the US need desperately to prevent a deal because they cannot allow Iran to develop nuclear weapons. Too bad that this administration put their own selfish political considerations before that.

Republicans have their eye on all of those extra billions they could trouser from another unnecessary Middle East adventure.

[Ulysses G.]

Most people do not put stopping the rogue nation of Iran's nuclear weapons program in "unnecessary" category.

[Chicog]

Most people do not put stopping the rogue nation of Iran's nuclear weapons program in "unnecessary" category.

Neither did I if you read. I said 'unnecessary adventure'. If their program can be stopped by negotiation, all those greedy Republicans can't profit from another war.

Did I really need to spell that out for you or are you simply being obtuse?

[Choctastic]

Most people do not put stopping the rogue nation of Iran's nuclear weapons program in "unnecessary" category.

Most people consider Israel's Nuclear Weapons program 'rogue'. No IAEA inspections. Not party to the NPT. Can't get any more 'rogue' than the 'Samson' option.

What is 'rogue' about Iran other than it kicked the murderous puppet Shah and the Yanks out?

If a deal is possible, let them grab it without interference from the slavering warmongers.

[BKKBobby]

"For the United States, the goal is to extend to at least a year the period that Iran would need to surreptitiously "break out" toward nuclear weapons development."

What is wrong with this president? Putting off Iran developing nukes for a year - or even 10 years - is not worth signing a deal that will legitimize Iran's nuclear weapons program in the long run. Benjamin Netanyahu is correct. This is a STUPID DEAL!

Did Khamenei whisper in your ear that it is a weapons program? How would you know.

[snarky66]

I'll bet you any deal that Barry makes will allow Iran to continue to enrich and produce plutonium. Which is not used for any peaceful purposes. Barry's idea is for all the Middle East countries to be nuclear armed.

[up-country_sinclair]

Bibi does not determine the international relations or the foreign policy of the United States, not in the short run and not in the long run.

.

The "Israel Firsters" refuse to accept that. They should renounce their US citizenship and apply for an Israeli passport because it's clear that's where their loyalty lies.

[chuckd]

...and Palestine might have some empty passports laying around for some of you on the other side.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post.

[Publicus]

I'll bet you any deal that Barry makes will allow Iran to continue to enrich and produce plutonium. Which is not used for any peaceful purposes. Barry's idea is for all the Middle East countries to be nuclear armed.

That is a wild charge against "Barry" which everyone is completely used to and which everyone yawns at.

The P5+1 that are negotiating with Iran, i.e., the UN five Security Council permanent members plus Germany, have the firm position of a 20% maximum uranium enrichment by Iran and that is it. That is the agreement between the P5+1 and Iran. IAEA inspectors are actively in Iran and on Janurary 20th the IAEA verified the 20% ceiling agreed in the Joint Action Plan signed late last year.

The negotiations are moving to a consensus by the March 31st deadline which produces optimism for the next deadline in July.

Panic is setting in among the politically partisan hard liners in the US, the bitter ideological hard liners in Iran, the militant hard liners in Israel, all of whom are becoming desperate to stop an agreement lest peace break out.

Bibi will himself be in a full-throated panic when he gives the Republicans in Congress their urgent marching orders in his March 3rd address to them.

[Chicog]

I'll bet you any deal that Barry makes will allow Iran to continue to enrich and produce plutonium. Which is not used for any peaceful purposes. Barry's idea is for all the Middle East countries to be nuclear armed.

You do know that it's not just 'Barry' that wants a peaceful resolution right?

[Publicus]

I'll bet you any deal that Barry makes will allow Iran to continue to enrich and produce plutonium. Which is not used for any peaceful purposes. Barry's idea is for all the Middle East countries to be nuclear armed.

You do know that it's not just 'Barry' that wants a peaceful resolution right?

Good point.

The whole of the United Nations wants a workable agreement that places nuclear development in the ME and its immediate region such as Iran under significant control, restrictions, management by the Security Council.

The UN General Assembly of 192 nations in 2010 authorized the Security Council to pursue these goals and purposes. The UNSC is indeed united on this, which means this is the common view shared among its 15 members to include the five permanent members, USA, UK, France, Russia, China -- plus Germany from among the other ten.

This is simple and also profoundly complex.

China wants a mutually sustainable P5+1 agreement with Iran so Iran sanctions can be lifted (albeit gradually and in stages) and China can get sorely needed energy....before the sanctions on Iran China had got 12% of its energy needs from Iran....now it's one-third of that and only due to a sanctions limited waiver for Beijing in return for Chinese strong support of the current Joint Action Plan. China does not want a nuclear Iran any more than it wants a nuclear North Korea (or Japan or S Korea). China is now Iran's largest trading partner but trade volume is spiraling down due to the economic slowdown sanctions have effected. Beijing is turning the screws on Tehran.

Russia fears Iran's reduced and post sanctions return to global oil markets so Moscow has a direct interest in keeping Iran on the ropes and is perhaps the toughest nuclear deal negotiator of the P5+1. Russia wants more sanctions which is driving the ayatollahs mad. The UK distrusts Russia so it is playing good cop with Tehran.

Germany is closest to the interests of China and Russia while being adamant Iran must sign an agreement that pleases the United States. Nobody trusts the French.

Yet it was PM Hollande in late 2013 who, while causing a major panic that almost crashed the negotiations, put backbone into all the P5+1 by initiating the 20% limit on Iran's uranium enrichment and introducing the requirement to stop construction of the heavy water production facility at Arak, thus taking a radiation dangerous major military target off the table.

For all their different reasons the P5+1 are working effectively towards the same goal and purpose established by the UN General Assembly, which is for the UNSC to restrict and manage nuclear power throughout the ME and its immediate environs.

[joesanunu]

I'll bet you any deal that Barry makes will allow Iran to continue to enrich and produce plutonium. Which is not used for any peaceful purposes. Barry's idea is for all the Middle East countries to be nuclear armed.

You do know that it's not just 'Barry' that wants a peaceful resolution right?

Good point.

The whole of the United Nations wants a workable agreement that places nuclear development in the ME and its immediate region such as Iran under significant control, restrictions, management by the Security Council.

The UN General Assembly of 192 nations in 2010 authorized the Security Council to pursue these goals and purposes. The UNSC is indeed united on this, which means this is the common view shared among its 15 members to include the five permanent members, USA, UK, France, Russia, China -- plus Germany from among the other ten.

This is simple and also profoundly complex.

China wants a mutually sustainable P5+1 agreement with Iran so Iran sanctions can be lifted (albeit gradually and in stages) and China can get sorely needed energy....before the sanctions on Iran China had got 12% of its energy needs from Iran....now it's one-third of that and only due to a sanctions limited waiver for Beijing in return for Chinese strong support of the current Joint Action Plan. China does not want a nuclear Iran any more than it wants a nuclear North Korea (or Japan or S Korea). China is now Iran's largest trading partner but trade volume is spiraling down due to the economic slowdown sanctions have effected. Beijing is turning the screws on Tehran.

Russia fears Iran's reduced and post sanctions return to global oil markets so Moscow has a direct interest in keeping Iran on the ropes and is perhaps the toughest nuclear deal negotiator of the P5+1. Russia wants more sanctions which is driving the ayatollahs mad. The UK distrusts Russia so it is playing good cop with Tehran.

Germany is closest to the interests of China and Russia while being adamant Iran must sign an agreement that pleases the United States. Nobody trusts the French.

Yet it was PM Hollande in late 2013 who, while causing a major panic that almost crashed the negotiations, put backbone into all the P5+1 by initiating the 20% limit on Iran's uranium enrichment and introducing the requirement to stop construction of the heavy water production facility at Arak, thus taking a radiation dangerous major military target off the table.

For all their different reasons the P5+1 are working effectively towards the same goal and purpose established by the UN General Assembly, which is for the UNSC to restrict and manage nuclear power throughout the ME and its immediate environs.

That sounds complicated.

Go with the Republicans simpler plan. Shock & Awe baby!

[chuckd]

News from Drudge today:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Iran opposition unveils 'secret' Tehran nuclear site

9 hours ago

Washington (AFP) - An exiled Iranian opposition group Tuesday accused Tehran of running a "secret" uranium enrichment site close to Tehran, which it said violated ongoing talks with global powers on a nuclear deal.

"Despite the Iranian regime's claims that all of its enrichment activities are transparent ... it has in fact been engaged in research and development with advanced centrifuges at a secret nuclear site called Lavizan-3," said Alireza Jafarzadeh, deputy director of the National Council of Resistance of Iran (NCRI).

He said the site was hidden in a military base in the northeastern suburbs of Tehran.

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-opposition-unveils-secret-tehran-nuclear-202325011.html