US-Israel quarrel intensifies over Netanyahu speech

[fvw53]

^{To understand the strange love between US Evangelicals (the back bone of the Republican Party) and Israel one must read the book written by Timothy P Weber}

^{"On the Road to Armageddon: How Evangelicals Became Israel's Best Friend"}

^{In the comments written on the related Amazon.com page you can read the opinion of Jason Carter.}

^QUOTE

<sup>Perhaps one of the single most devastating errors pervading evangelical Christianity is its love affair with Israel. It is so deeply engrained into the evangelical psyche that rational discourse on the issue is often impossible (note the reviewer who concluded the author must be questioning his own faith).

This love affair springs from an aberrant eschatological system known as dispensationalism. This interpretation of the Bible's end times scenario is vogue in 21st century America but was unknown to Christendom for over 1800 years. It is a significant departure from historical, orthodox Christianity (I write this as an evangelical Christian myself, for those who may question my insider credentials). Never mind that its proponents have engaged in the kind of time tabling and newspaper theology that Jesus Himself forbids (e.g., despite Hal Lindsey's repeated discredited predictions, he still commands a respected following within evangelicalism...).
UNQUOTE</sup>

[mania]

Somewhere in Israel a village is missing its idiot.

They should retrieve him & a muzzle wouldn't hurt either

US should hide this warmongers food stamps under his truth

he would never find them

[chuckd]

I notice the NY Times article cited above failed to notice what SecState Kerry had to say about Congress' role in the Iran nuclear agreement.

They must have gone to press before Kerry made his comments. Congress has no say in the matter.

So why the outrage about a speech from the Dems?

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Kerry: Congress Has No Role in Approving Iran Nuclear Deal

February 25, 2015 - 4:19 AM

By Patrick Goodenough

(CNSNews.com) – Secretary of State John Kerry on Wednesday declined to “get into” what negotiators are proposing to the Iranians in the nuclear talks, and defended the president’s authority to execute foreign policy, saying he did not believe a negotiated agreement should go through a “formal approval process” by Congress.

“I don’t think there ought to be a formal approval process,” he told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, adding that the administration was consulting with Congress and that lawmakers would ultimately have to vote on lifting sanctions on Iran.

“You certainly have a right to have whatever hearings and whatever further examinations you want to have, if a deal is struck,” he said in response to questions by Sen. Cory Gardner (R-Colo.). “I mean, that’s your prerogative at any point in time. And ours is to respond to you.”

Asked by Gardner whether he believed then that Congress should have “no other role or feedback” apart from hearings, Kerry said, “No, I believe this falls squarely within the executive power of the president of the United States in the execution of American foreign policy.”

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/kerry-reiterates-congress-has-no-iran-nuclear-deal-approval-role

[Publicus]

I notice the NY Times article cited above failed to notice what SecState Kerry had to say about Congress' role in the Iran nuclear agreement.

They must have gone to press before Kerry made his comments. Congress has no say in the matter.

So why the outrage about a speech from the Dems?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Kerry: Congress Has No Role in Approving Iran Nuclear Deal

February 25, 2015 - 4:19 AM

By Patrick Goodenough

(CNSNews.com) – Secretary of State John Kerry on Wednesday declined to “get into” what negotiators are proposing to the Iranians in the nuclear talks, and defended the president’s authority to execute foreign policy, saying he did not believe a negotiated agreement should go through a “formal approval process” by Congress.

“I don’t think there ought to be a formal approval process,” he told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, adding that the administration was consulting with Congress and that lawmakers would ultimately have to vote on lifting sanctions on Iran.

“You certainly have a right to have whatever hearings and whatever further examinations you want to have, if a deal is struck,” he said in response to questions by Sen. Cory Gardner (R-Colo.). “I mean, that’s your prerogative at any point in time. And ours is to respond to you.”

Asked by Gardner whether he believed then that Congress should have “no other role or feedback” apart from hearings, Kerry said, “No, I believe this falls squarely within the executive power of the president of the United States in the execution of American foreign policy.”

http://www.mrctv.org/videos/kerry-reiterates-congress-has-no-iran-nuclear-deal-approval-role

Overlooked is the authority in the Constitution of the president to make executive agreements with foreign governments.

It's about the balance of powers and the system of checks and balances written into the Constitution. There are matters the Congress can check the president on. Conversely, there are matters the president can check the Congress on.

On this one it's checkmate against the Congress.

Under Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution, the President as chief executive of the United States has the authority to create international agreements with other nations without Senate approval. These international agreements are called executive agreements.

Executive Agreements follow much of the same process as treaties. They are initiated at the Executive level of government and are negotiated by a representative. When the parties agree on the terms, the Secretary of State authorizes the negotiator to sign the agreement and the agreement will enter into force. Executive agreements do not go to the Senate for consideration and approval.

http://www.law.asu.edu/library/RossBlakleyLawLibrary/ResearchNow/ResearchGuides/TreatiesandInternationalAgreements.aspx

In 1952, for instance, the United States signed 14 treaties and 291 executive agreements. This was a larger number of executive agreements than had been reached during the entire century of 1789 to 1889. Executive agreements continue to grow at a rapid rate.

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/common/briefing/Treaties.ht

[harryfrompattaya]

Mr. Israel, may be should get rid of your nuclear killing devices as well.

What makes you think you have the right to them and Iran not.

Justice for all .

Since 20 per cent of Israelis are from Russia I hope Israel and Russia do not team up to control the world

[Ulysses G.]

It may be worth your while investigating the dual Israeli American nationalities and allegiances of some of Bush's top neocon advisers: Paul Wolfowitz, John Bolton, Elliott Abrams, Richard Perle, and Douglas Feith

You have been caught posting blatant lies over and over again on this forum. Please provide evidence from a CREDIBLE source that these men have dual Israeli/American nationalities.

I wrote "and allegiances".

In other words, yet another lie. NONE of them hold dual citizenship and linking to hateful, anti-Semitic websites, saying they do, does not help your case. I specified CREDIBLE sources. They are all Jewish and all American and NONE of them is a "duel" citizen of Israel. I can't remember the last time that you wrote a post with accurate information.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[JDGRUEN]

This could work to the advantage of Netanyahu's opponents

If enough people boycott his speech the electorate in Israel may see him as no longer a viable candidate

The Democrats in the U.S. Senate are trying to get a private meeting with Netanyahu - but he turned it down. Boycott ... the dems are inviting him for a private meeting ... Boycott - how funny is that?

[JDGRUEN]

I have read reliable reports that the Israelis have at least 5 - probably 8 relatively new (in the last 10 years or so) German built diesel submarines that have Cruise Missile capability and Polaris / Poseidon type missile capability... with nuclear warheads.

This little tid bit is likely the only reason the Arabs do not get totally out of control. Why Iran - a Persian non Arab Muslim state does what they do is entirely another matter. Certain analysts have posed that Iran is not fearful of nuclear retaliation as is fulfills their believe in ultimate destiny - a conflagration to end this worldly existence and provide their heavenly rewards.

Edited February 26, 2015 by JDGRUEN

[siampolee]

Seems to me there are two ways to deal with this situation.

Make Israel the 51st (or if one includes Peurto Rica citizens in the U.S ) Israel could become the 52nd state.

Or let the truth be known openly by admitting the truth that in reality America is already Israels first state, or possibly the second state after the encroached lands Israel occupies.

Thus all the political bickering is negated and there is no problem.

[Ulysses G.]

Certain analyst has posed that Iran is not fearful of nuclear retaliation as is fulfills their believe in ultimate destiny - a conflagration to end this worldly existence and provide their heavenly rewards.

They want to bring forth the 12th Mahdi in fire and turmoil (nuclear weapons?), who shares a lot of characteristics with the Christian idea of the anti-Christ.

[JDGRUEN]

Netanyahu is an extreme hard line right winger who with Speaker John Boehner have decided to establish the Likud-Republican Party in US and Israeli politics and governance.

Netanyahu with Boehner are busily establishing an alternative center of foreign policy in the Congress. Mr. Netyanhu is not subject to the constitution but Mr. Boehner is....each however knows this new shady business is in direct and a bold violation of it.

Kerry Reminds Congress Netanyahu Advised U.S. to Invade Iraq

Apparently referring to testimony on the Middle East that Mr. Netanyahu delivered to Congress on Sept. 12, 2002, when he was a private citizen, Mr. Kerry told the House Foreign Affairs Committee, “The prime minister, as you will recall, was profoundly forward-leaning and outspoken about the importance of invading Iraq under George W. Bush, and we all know what happened with that decision.”

Video of Mr. Netanyahu’s 2002 remarks — in which he said “I think the choice of Iraq is a good choice, it’s the right choice” — reveals that he linked his strong support for a United States invasion of Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein with the possibility of inspiring the implosion of the ruling theocracy in neighboring Iran.

It’s not a question of whether Iraq’s regime should be taken out but when should it be taken out; it’s not a question of whether you’d like to see a regime change in Iran but how to achieve it,” Mr. Netanyahu said six months before the Bush administration began the “shock and awe” bombardment of Baghdad.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/world/middleeast/kerry-reminds-congress-netanyahu-advised-us-to-invade-iraq.html?_r=0

The then Senator Kerry voted to support President Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq... "political opponents accused him of trying to have it both ways on the war — voting in October 2002 to give President George W. Bush authorization to use force, then criticizing the March 2003 invasion from its beginning as a "failure of diplomacy."

I was for it then against it ... What a farce Kerry is ... Kerry officially endorsed the Iraq war ... now he wants to slam Netanyahu for supporting the same position. Kerry is Mr. Flim Flam - Flip Flop

[Ulysses G.]

Netanyahu was private citizen in 2002. He was not in office. Kerry was a senator who voted for the authorization to use force. What a hypocrite!

[Publicus]

Both Netanyahu and Boehner need to self-examine and pause to consider their reckless course of action.

It violates the Constitution for the two of 'em to work together to establish and alternative foreign policy centered in the Congress and designed by the one party in control of the Congress with the prime minister of a foreign country and government besides.

National Security Adviser Susan Rice today made things clear to both of 'em....

Charlie Rose Show: National Security Adviser Susan Rice talks to Charlie Rose about the state of affairs between Israel and the United States, and why John Boehner's invitation to Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu to address Congress "injected partisanship" and is "destructive to the fabric of the relationship"

[Wat dee]

Netanyahu has cried wolf once lying that Iran was within 12 months of producing a nuclear weapon, when his own intelligence service Mossad advised him that was untrue. So why should we believe him this time?

This is like deja vu all over again...US misled into a war searching for non existent WMD. And there was only one country in the Middle East that benefited from that fiasco.

Netanyahu is trying to soften up US public opinion for another folly on Israel's behalf.

Absolutely brilliant, the US mislead into a war with Iraq looking for WMD The US (Bush) were doing the leading were they not?

or are you really trying to stretch reality by suggesting WMD and Iraq was at Israels behest?

That kind of makes America look like someones puppy to be toyed with. Or very weak minded.

That kind of makes America look like someones puppy to be toyed with. Or very weak minded.

It may be worth your while investigating the dual Israeli American nationalities and allegiances of some of Bush's top neocon advisers: Paul Wolfowitz, John Bolton, Elliott Abrams, Richard Perle, and Douglas Feith

another scraper of barrels! Iraq was an American own goal. Bush Junior finishing what his dad started. If the Jewish/Israeli influence over American politics is so strong why is it they are having problems with Obama? He should be a good little puppy bitch and listen to his masters! But he isn't.

Effendis loosing their touch...

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[chuckd]

"But at this point, what difference does it make?"

Nearly as ridiculous as trying to blame a terrorist attack on a YouTube video.

[Publicus]

Netanyahu was private citizen in 2002. He was not in office. Kerry was a senator who voted for the authorization to use force. What a hypocrite!

John Kerry and the rest of us learned something from it and, while it is a bitter lesson it is extremely valuable and one that remains with us.

Netanyahu has learned nothing from the experience and he's trying to wreck the US Constitution besides, hand in hand with Speaker Boehner.

Good for Sec Kerry, great for the national security adviser Susan Rice.

[Anthony5]

<

Benjamin Netanyahu was invited to speak by Congress and he did not accept until the White House had been notified. The American people want to hear him speak. Obama and his minions should back off and stop the usual dishonest political posturing.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2015/02/18/ignore-cnn-poll-shows-americans-want-netanyahu-to-speak/

There is plenty of evidence that Iran is developing nukes from many different sources. So what if Netanyahu exaggerated a little bit to get the world's attention.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/02/24/iran-pursuing-nukes-in-underground-complex-despite-talks-with-west-claims/

So Israels own intelligence agency is lying?

Mossad only disagreed with the timing. Meir Dagan, the Mossad chief from 2002 until 2011, has voiced a differing opinion from Netanyahu on how to deal with the Iranian nuclear issue, and how close Iran may be to the bomb. Before leaving office in 2011, Dagan said that in his view, Iran would obtain a nuclear weapon only in 2015. That is just about NOW.

2011, that 4 years ago isn't it, and those 4 years many things may have changed. I think even 2013, when Iran signed an agreement, came in between.

Oh and is now someones 'view' the same as intelligence?

[Thaiaddict01]

what's Netanyahu going to say tomorrow that John Kerry is so worried about? some sensitive info about US/Iran negotiation or something

[Ulysses G.]

what's Netanyahu going to say tomorrow that John Kerry is so worried about?

Kerry and Obama are both worried that Netanyahu is going to let the cat out of the bag. Obama's deal would allow Iran to make a nuclear bomb in about 10 years without violating the agreement, if not long before by ignoring it.

[Ulysses G.]

Oh and is now someones 'view' the same as intelligence?

The head of Mossad has access to all their intelligence.