Volunteering, Legality and Much Confusion

[Mapguy]

Some people still don't understand. For some good clues to improve your understanding, read NancyL's post #23.

[uptheos]

Kudos to you and your fellow volunteers...I have given to local Christian churches who are legally involved in the same activities you have described...almost everything a foreigner does in Thailand can be considered work and the Thais are very vigilant in reporting your suspicious activities...so far a work permit is not needed to go to the toilet...unless you carry your computer with you...

To be honest I've been here a very long time, paid to work initially and then done quite a bit of volunteer work. At home I insist on painting my own exterior fence and gate when required, which isn't too often. The Thai's in my moo bahn walk around frequently, exercising and the only comments I've ever had are things like 'very nice' and 'do mine when you've finished'. The volunteer work that I have done involves doing it alongside Thai's and never have I been reported. I'm not at all concerned, they know what I'm doing is not harmful, not really taking a job away from anyone and they are not spiteful people they know I'm an asset to their organisation or community.

But before someone says it "You definitely need a work permit to do volunteer work"

Yes I know and it could all go tits up. But thank you very much you do what you want to do and I'll do the same.

[northernjohn]

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As I understand it legally you need a work permit, however, there is a difference between someone who comes to thailand to work for an NGO as a volunteer as opposed to say someone who lives here occasionally helping the needy with food or gifts etc. I have been involved with such schemes in the ten years I have been here, we have stood with the mayor and city hall officials handing out food parcels to the poor, I have also been involved in fundraising for a number of children's homes. Despite what many might say the Thai authorities understand the difference and welcome the help these acts of kindness give. What they don't want is NGO s bringing in volunteers from abroad to save them paying wages for full time job, as with all things here there are exceptions of course.
Just my humble opinion and others will disagree.

There are lot's of opinions but the law is clear. Now as to will they execute the letter of the law. Well It hasn't happened yet and there is lot's of expats doing similar type volunteer work. It happened a few years back when musician jamming on stage was caught doing it and he the owner of the bar and one other musician jamming were fined. The reason was the one fellow was on Facebook bragging about no work permit and making lots of money in Thailand. The other case involved I believe 5 musicians. One was wanted on other charges and they just took the other four along. In both cases the shall we call it the innocent ones were just given a slap on the hands.

If your example is what they want to do I would say go ahead with it. The chances of being discovered are minute and if caught I believe it would not be as a result of seeking them out and I doubt there would be any repercussions. That is presuming the person who catches them is not having the worst day of his/her life.

"They go shopping with their own money and buy food and cook on premise and serve the kids".

I doubt this would be a problem, but if any of the kids went down with stomach problems.................

That is a point to be considered. How ever I doubt very much it would be blamed on the free meal.

bottom line is Thai Visa is not a good place to get a definite answer to that. Many have done it and no problem but that does not mean it is legal. Do it.

[Dante99]

For many years as a part of their regualar curriculum students at Prem have done and been required to do volunteer community service projects in a variety of locations. There has never been any problem and it is likely that other schools have similar programs. The Boy Scout Troop at CMIS has been doing volunteer work for about 20 years too.

We still have no posts indicating that anybody has gotten into trouble for volunteer work, do we?

[hmficc]

Junglechief is asking things like "is it technically legal" and "where do they draw the line" which can only be answered by a lawyer and to what end? It is what you can do that matters.

Donatating things including prepared food is fine. Most likely cooking occasionally at a school, orphanage or wat would be no problem. I doubt there has ever been a issue for a foreigner doing this in cultural sensitive way but if you are worried which you seem to be, why not just do the cooking at home?

If you need absoulte rules and lines, this is not the place for you.

Lets get real. Prosecution for giving to the needy?

It is a whole different thing if you are going to make a big deal about your fantastic cooking or otherwise draw attention to yourself, the great farang chief.

Been there. Done that. Never worried about it. Tam boom. Sankuk mai pen rai and have a nice day . Cheers.

[captspectre]

One of the things they look at and adds points when applying for permanent residency is the applicants activity in charities and community service.

anyone remember the tsunami of 2004? all the volunteers who flocked to thailand to help out? remember the thai gov't who told them that they had to have a WORK permit in order to help the helpless and homeless? I REMEMBER1 you can never volunteer to do anything in thailand without some idiot teling you that you are in violation fo thai law!

[captspectre]

Junglechief is asking things like "is it technically legal" and "where do they draw the line" which can only be answered by a lawyer and to what end? It is what you can do that matters.

Donatating things including prepared food is fine. Most likely cooking occasionally at a school, orphanage or wat would be no problem. I doubt there has ever been a issue for a foreigner doing this in cultural sensitive way but if you are worried which you seem to be, why not just do the cooking at home?

If you need absoulte rules and lines, this is not the place for you.

Lets get real. Prosecution for giving to the needy?

It is a whole different thing if you are going to make a big deal about your fantastic cooking or otherwise draw attention to yourself, the great farang chief.

Been there. Done that. Never worried about it. Tam boom. Sankuk mai pen rai and have a nice day . Cheers.

get real? yes let's get real! you can be put in jail for volunteering and trying to help the homeless and helpless! it depends on where you are AND who is in charge! the bottom line there is no set regulation, you can be locked up in bangkok and applauded in the north east!

[Dante99]

Junglechief is asking things like "is it technically legal" and "where do they draw the line" which can only be answered by a lawyer and to what end? It is what you can do that matters.

Donatating things including prepared food is fine. Most likely cooking occasionally at a school, orphanage or wat would be no problem. I doubt there has ever been a issue for a foreigner doing this in cultural sensitive way but if you are worried which you seem to be, why not just do the cooking at home?

If you need absoulte rules and lines, this is not the place for you.

Lets get real. Prosecution for giving to the needy?

It is a whole different thing if you are going to make a big deal about your fantastic cooking or otherwise draw attention to yourself, the great farang chief.

Been there. Done that. Never worried about it. Tam boom. Sankuk mai pen rai and have a nice day . Cheers.

get real? yes let's get real! you can be put in jail for volunteering and trying to help the homeless and helpless! it depends on where you are AND who is in charge! the bottom line there is no set regulation, you can be locked up in bangkok and applauded in the north east!

Yes and you can be dusted by a neuclear bomb, pancaked by a 10 wheel truck, double tapped by an angry driver, paralized by an incompetent anethesiologist, jailed for nothing by almost any policeperson around, had your lights turned off by a heart that has chosen to stop or a blood clot run amok, and a whole lot of other rather terrible things.

But like volunteering without a work permit causing problems, those things are quite unlikely and most reasonable people have no need to worry about them.

And NO, I do not need a work permit to write a book in my own home.

We still have no posts indicating that anybody has gotten into trouble for volunteer work, do we?

[bangmai]

Someone mentioned a woman, who was running some kind of dog charity getting in trouble..........Also, something that hasn't been mentioned is the differences between volunteering in CM, and volunteering to help refugees in the border zones. Are they more likely to turn a blind eye to someone working at a refugee camp? It seems like the missionaries, who aren't focused on living western lifestyles out Hang Dong Rd., spend a lot of their (churches) resources with the Burmese (refugees), and I believe most of them get the proper visas, except for the ones paying to volunteer for some photo ops. Maybe someone else can throw in their 2 thb on that issue.

[uptheos]

Someone mentioned a woman, who was running some kind of dog charity getting in trouble..........Also, something that hasn't been mentioned is the differences between volunteering in CM, and volunteering to help refugees in the border zones. Are they more likely to turn a blind eye to someone working at a refugee camp? It seems like the missionaries, who aren't focused on living western lifestyles out Hang Dong Rd., spend a lot of their (churches) resources with the Burmese (refugees), and I believe most of them get the proper visas, except for the ones paying to volunteer for some photo ops. Maybe someone else can throw in their 2 thb on that issue.

I will know by the answer to this question if the person knows what they are talking about or just spouting BS.

I'm not answering it, because it's none of your business.

[davidst01]

Theres a lot of volunteers at Lanta animal welfare doing good work. I went there to walk a dog once and was told by a dodgy english manager (jon) that you dont need a work permit to volunteer there. They were making a lot of money in donations.... all for the dogs.

[Dante99]

Someone mentioned a woman, who was running some kind of dog charity getting in trouble.........

That is quite vague. Don't think I'll add it as a case without further information.

[uptheos]

Someone mentioned a woman, who was running some kind of dog charity getting in trouble.........

That is quite vague. Don't think I'll add it as a case without further information.

Quite vague?

'Someone'

'A woman'

'Some kind'

[bangmai]

Someone mentioned a woman, who was running some kind of dog charity getting in trouble.........

That is quite vague. Don't think I'll add it as a case without further information.

It was brought up in one of the many threads on the same subject. It was about as vague as the people telling you that you can "probably" work illegally, or you are "unlikely" to get deported. "Many" people do it. 88

[northernjohn]

Someone mentioned a woman, who was running some kind of dog charity getting in trouble..........Also, something that hasn't been mentioned is the differences between volunteering in CM, and volunteering to help refugees in the border zones. Are they more likely to turn a blind eye to someone working at a refugee camp? It seems like the missionaries, who aren't focused on living western lifestyles out Hang Dong Rd., spend a lot of their (churches) resources with the Burmese (refugees), and I believe most of them get the proper visas, except for the ones paying to volunteer for some photo ops. Maybe someone else can throw in their 2 thb on that issue.

I have done a workshop in the Burmese Refuge Center. It was done with the permission of the government obtained through an NGO who have an active hand in the camps.

Just talked with one of the directors for the NGO and under the new government it is hard to get in. Lots more paper work and requirements.

I have a one year extension and the government OKed my going in after looking at my passport and a pile of paper work by the NGO.

[Mapguy]

As I once asked (Post #16):

"... to focus on volunteer "work," has anyone actually know of a long-stay retiree being fined, jailed or deported for clearly benevolent socially-conscious non-profitable activity? If so, let's hear about it.

To lessen any possible confusion, I am NOT writing about some basically commercial enterprises (some masking as not-for-profits) in Thailand whose business is to charge volunteers for short-term activities. The above is written basically about the situation of long-stay retirees who have landed in Chiang Mai and are looking for something useful to do to help others."

[bangmai]

Someone mentioned a woman, who was running some kind of dog charity getting in trouble..........Also, something that hasn't been mentioned is the differences between volunteering in CM, and volunteering to help refugees in the border zones. Are they more likely to turn a blind eye to someone working at a refugee camp? It seems like the missionaries, who aren't focused on living western lifestyles out Hang Dong Rd., spend a lot of their (churches) resources with the Burmese (refugees), and I believe most of them get the proper visas, except for the ones paying to volunteer for some photo ops. Maybe someone else can throw in their 2 thb on that issue.

I have done a workshop in the Burmese Refuge Center. It was done with the permission of the government obtained through an NGO who have an active hand in the camps.

Just talked with one of the directors for the NGO and under the new government it is hard to get in. Lots more paper work and requirements.

I have a one year extension and the government OKed my going in after looking at my passport and a pile of paper work by the NGO.

If you read about the shipment of wheelchairs, which is quite recent, it is evident that they had to jump through many hoops to get that done. From the time they hit customs, until each one was individually issued. Multiple layers of government involved. I don't know if they are a real NGO, non-profit, or just individuals.....but that was clearly not routine.

[rct99q]

I sit here in my rocking chair reading another rehashed topic with posters getting into another pissing match about who is wrong or right while the OP answers back about not getting factual answers regarding a topic that is nearly impossible for anyone one of us to reply on correctly.

To the young man you have inquired about who had the questions...look at NancyL post and most people would agree.

In my opinion it has a lot to do about the person/people volunteering and less to do about the organization. A very well respected charitable organization run by a westerner here in the NE (all legal with the paper work) ran for years with no problems as the volunteers all behaved in a respectful manner until a year or so ago for whatever strange karma a small group emerged that treated their time at the organization differently till one night after a night of binge drinking, flashing of both male and female body parts and some destruction of local property the said charitable organization was visited by police, immigration and the local mayor. The organization has since closed up. Not clear for what specific reason but after running for nearly 10 years without incident it only took 3 months and a few selfish volunteers to possibly ruin what was once a well respected charitable organization.

It is only one incident out of thousands of people doing good deeds in this country but for me it shows that the locals have really no issue with volunteering or volunteers helping (especially if it involves things like feeding children elderly or animals in need) until the people involved show up the locals, treat them with disdain or in some other manner bring unwanted attention to them.

[arunsakda]

This thread got me thinking about what I do at Coffee. Which is to wipe the crumbs and droplets from the table with a serviette and bring my empty glass to the counter on my way out. I thought I was being considerate but it is a grave offence.

[northernjohn]

This thread got me thinking about what I do at Coffee. Which is to wipe the crumbs and droplets from the table with a serviette and bring my empty glass to the counter on my way out. I thought I was being considerate but it is a grave offence.

off with his head.

[Tokay]

I have only heard stories but never personally met anyone who got into trouble for volunteering without a permit. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just stating my experience.

My guess is, like everything else here, if a local poo yai gets their butt hairs worked up over something, like not getting their slice of the pie, or they simply hates foreigners, as some of them do, they will call immigration on you. Otherwise, you're in the clear.

That said, there are Thai and farang haters all over this country. You can even see them on this board. So do whatever you need to do and keep it to yourself or within your close group of friends.

[uptheos]

I have only heard stories but never personally met anyone who got into trouble for volunteering without a permit. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just stating my experience.

My guess is, like everything else here, if a local poo yai gets their butt hairs worked up over something, like not getting their slice of the pie, or they simply hates foreigners, as some of them do, they will call immigration on you. Otherwise, you're in the clear.

That said, there are Thai and farang haters all over this country. You can even see them on this board. So do whatever you need to do and keep it to yourself or within your close group of friends.

My guess is that in many cases it's other foreigners that grass people up.

[uptheos]

This thread got me thinking about what I do at Coffee. Which is to wipe the crumbs and droplets from the table with a serviette and bring my empty glass to the counter on my way out. I thought I was being considerate but it is a grave offence.

off with his head.

It sounds as if it doesn't have far to go.

[maidee]

many of those prefer CASH donations than food

figure out why

[Thailand]

I think this is all OK until it goes wrong then you could be in trouble. Probably as simple as that.

[hml367]

I think this is all OK until it goes wrong then you could be in trouble. Probably as simple as that.

I agree with both statements! How about that? A SIMPLE answer to it all.

[bangmai]

I have only heard stories but never personally met anyone who got into trouble for volunteering without a permit. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just stating my experience.

My guess is, like everything else here, if a local poo yai gets their butt hairs worked up over something, like not getting their slice of the pie, or they simply hates foreigners, as some of them do, they will call immigration on you. Otherwise, you're in the clear.

That said, there are Thai and farang haters all over this country. You can even see them on this board. So do whatever you need to do and keep it to yourself or within your close group of friends.

My guess is that in many cases it's other foreigners that grass people up.

"My guess".....a very factual contribution.

[uptheos]

I have only heard stories but never personally met anyone who got into trouble for volunteering without a permit. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just stating my experience.

My guess is, like everything else here, if a local poo yai gets their butt hairs worked up over something, like not getting their slice of the pie, or they simply hates foreigners, as some of them do, they will call immigration on you. Otherwise, you're in the clear.

That said, there are Thai and farang haters all over this country. You can even see them on this board. So do whatever you need to do and keep it to yourself or within your close group of friends.

My guess is that in many cases it's other foreigners that grass people up.

"My guess".....a very factual contribution.

You hit the nail on the head pal, it's all guesswork.

[LivinLOS]

For many years as a part of their regualar curriculum students at Prem have done and been required to do volunteer community service projects in a variety of locations. There has never been any problem and it is likely that other schools have similar programs. The Boy Scout Troop at CMIS has been doing volunteer work for about 20 years too.

We still have no posts indicating that anybody has gotten into trouble for volunteer work, do we?

Margret of the soi dog foundation.

[LivinLOS]

And NO, I do not need a work permit to write a book in my own home.

We still have no posts indicating that anybody has gotten into trouble for volunteer work, do we?

That depends..

1) if you have recieved an advance or a commission to produce the book

2) if you are a previously published author

3) if you intend to market the book to publishers or self publish.

If you are maintaining you are writing it entirely for your own amusement, then no you dont need one.. If any of the 3 above can be proven, then you do..