Monks to rally if NRC panel is not scrapped

[webfact]

Monks to rally if NRC panel is not scrapped
THE NATION

Buddhist groups set march 12 as deadline; rival faction wants charter to give only King the power to appoint the supreme patriarch

BANGKOK: -- A LARGE number of monks have threatened to rally on March 12 in an attempt to have the National Reform Council panel on the protection of Buddhism disbanded due to its perceived hostility towards the order.

In a statement issued yesterday, Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya University deputy rector Phra Maythee Thammajarn said his call for the rally was not meant to favour any particular temple but to protect Buddhism overall.

The NRC panel is chaired by Paiboon Nititawan, who has labelled Dhammakaya Temple the source of ongoing disputes and has said its abbot Phra Dhammachayo should be defrocked as a result of a 1999 statement by the late supreme patriarch.

Phra Maythee Thammajarn last week submitted a petition to Prime Minister Prayuth Chan-o-cha and NRC president Thienchay Kiranandana demanding that the NRC panel be scrapped.

"If the call to disband the NRC panel is disregarded by the government or the NRC, I can confirm that there will be more activities by various Buddhist bodies, especially by a large number of monks, on March 12," he said. The deadline has been set by the Association of Academics for Buddhism, a lay body that is an ally of Mahachula-longkornrajavidyalaya University. The location of the march has not yet been determined.

A group of followers of late revered monk Luang Ta Maha Bua on Friday submitted an open letter to Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha and NRC president Thienchay Kiranandana that said an ongoing draft on religions in the new constitution must clearly stipulate that it was the King's sole authority to appoint the supreme patriarch. They also said the seniority of monks should be based on the number of years they had been monks and not by their ecclesiastical rank.

Led by Prof Rattana Siriphanich, they are also opposed to any future issuance of a monastic law that is against the Buddha's rules on the discipline of monks, which they said could lead to divisions among monks - a deadly sin. The group said giving the King the authority to appoint the supreme patriarch could minimise or prevent the "money-driven chase" for a higher ecclesiastical rank among senior monks.

The late supreme patriarch said the abbot's monk status was invalidated after he allegedly committed one of the five deadly sins as a Buddhist monk by embezzling money and land donated to the Pathum Thani-based temple. Public prosecutors dropped the case.

Meanwhile, a National Institute of Development Administration poll found that 52 per cent of respondents said that reform of Buddhism in Thailand was urgent and important, 24 per cent said it was important but not urgent and 19 per cent said it was not needed. Of 1,249 Buddhist respondents across the country, 10 per cent viewed the Supreme Sangha Council's performance as being highly effective, 25 per cent said rather effective, 33 per cent said lowly effective and 19 per cent found it completely ineffective.

Asked about frequency of monk walks in Bangkok, which has drawn criticism due to their impact on traffic, 77 per cent said they were inappropriate, 13 per cent said they were appropriate and 3 per cent had no problems.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Monks-to-rally-if-NRC-panel-is-not-scrapped-30255148.html

-- The Nation 2015-03-02

[harada]

I hope they get a permit.

[chooka]

But everyone is happy with the Junta or are the monks part of the 7%?

[thesetat2013]

Buddhism in Thailand is really scarce if you look truly at the religions principles, morals, and ethics. Most of the larger temples and way to many monks take advantage of the peoples beliefs to get rich and have power. I think this is why the order has concern from the NRC looking into their order and their money.

Never have I seen monks walking around with iPads and apple computers and having millions of baht. Never have I seen monks with expensive cars traveling first class to other countries and wearing brand name clothing or accessories. Never have I seen this until I came to Thailand. Monks with girlfriends... This is not Buddhism. Someone needs to look into what has happened here with this supposedly religious sect. This is why they worry now. Exposure would defrock the lot of them.

[Sarathi]

Couple of points:

• The monkhood is Shinawatra leaning - mostly because there are more monks from the North and Northeast than from other regions. (the only systematic survey revealed a 70/30 split for political bias)
• The Sangha is not united politically, and for the sake of their own harmony, they stay out of politics (except for V. Buddha Issara). Sangha harmony is considered more important than politics.
• There are not 'five deadly sins' in Buddhism. There are four offenses that result in disqualification from the monkhood
• Ven. Dhammachayo was not caught embezzling funds. Any Thai has a legal right to own land, and to receive gifts from others. That's why the legal case against him was dropped. It did not hold water. No land or funds were ever taken (embezzled) from the temple. The Sangha investigation however, deemed it inappropriate, and so the land was gifted as an addition to the temple. (this does not relate to the current case of receiving donations that came from commercial embezzlement)
• To promote monks due to seniority rather than rank is absolute nonsense - imagine if the government of anywhere was run by the country's oldest people ??? NUTS. Ecclesiastical rank is not a great yardstick either, but at least presumably you need to show some kind of ability to receive such a rank.

I was talking to a NACC senior a few days ago. He told me that they were terribly disappointed that the SSC did not pursue the abbot of Wat Dhammakaya. I asked him why the courts didn't - after all if he committed a criminal offense, he can be tried in a criminal court.

He also said that Buddhism was in need of reform, and the new government are just the guys to 'clean up Buddhism'. One of his suggestions, I'm not kidding, was to have monks wear shoes on almsround.

Hope that helps.

(edited typos)

Edited March 1, 2015 by Sarathi

[Robby nz]

Does this tactic remind you of anything, like the previous administration for instance and their militant group ?

If you attempt to investigate us we will attack you, try to have you disbanded, go after your members personally.

Weng confirmed the links with his group and the big temple that is being investigated, lets hope the same tactics will not be used by the same people.

If they are then these indignant monks and their followers may have their coffins ready for burning and be cleaning their grenade launchers.

[koo wallety tourist]

o promote monks due to seniority rather than rank is absolute nonsense - imagine if the government of anywhere was run by the country's oldest people ??? NUTS. Ecclesiastical rank is not a great yardstick either, but at least presumably you need to show some kind of ability to receive such a rank.

the ability to achieve nirvana that wouldnt be a criteria would it?

[Robby nz]

Couple of points:

• The monkhood is Shinawatra leaning - mostly because there are more monks from the North and Northeast than from other regions. (the only systematic survey revealed a 70/30 split for political bias)
• The Sangha is not united politically, and for the sake of their own harmony, they stay out of politics (except for V. Buddha Issara). Sangha harmony is considered more important than politics.
• There are not 'five deadly sins' in Buddhism. There are four offenses that result in disqualification from the monkhood
• Ven. Dhammachayo was not caught embezzling funds. Any Thai has a legal right to own land, and to receive gifts from others. That's why the legal case against him was dropped. It did not hold water. No land or funds were ever taken (embezzled) from the temple. The Sangha investigation however, deemed it inappropriate, and so the land was gifted as an addition to the temple. (this does not relate to the current case of receiving donations that came from commercial embezzlement)
• To promote monks due to seniority rather than rank is absolute nonsense - imagine if the government of anywhere was run by the country's oldest people ??? NUTS. Ecclesiastical rank is not a great yardstick either, but at least presumably you need to show some kind of ability to receive such a rank.

I was talking to a NACC senior a few days ago. He told me that they were terribly disappointed that the SSC did not pursue the abbot of Wat Dhammakaya. I asked him why the courts didn't - after all if he committed a criminal offense, he can be tried in a criminal court.

He also said that Buddhism was in need of reform, and the new government are just the guys to 'clean up Buddhism'. One of his suggestions, I'm not kidding, was to have monks wear shoes on almsround.

Hope that helps.

(edited typos)

The monkhood in itself is not shinawatra leaning the temple being investigated is, from a longstanding political affiliation, see Wengs comments, he said it not me.

Your second point contradicts your first.

Phra Dhammachayo was not accused of embezzling funds he was accused of personally receiving funds and only gave these funds to the temple after he had been found out. The them supreme patriarch ordered that he be defrocked, this was ignored.

Furthermore he has now personally received millions knowing that they have been embezzled as has the temple, in fact it has now been stated that 11.3 billion of the embezzled money went to the temple and its affiliates. This is money that has been stolen form ordinary peoples savings.

I ask you, should this be investigated ?

What we see now is a panel that is in the process of investigation irregularities and wrongdoing in Buddhism and a group led by those who are being investigated threatening the investigators.

Surely it is in the interests of all good Buddhists that the monks and temples do not stray from the principles of Buddhism.

[issanaus]

Does this tactic remind you of anything, like the previous administration for instance and their militant group ?

If you attempt to investigate us we will attack you, try to have you disbanded, go after your members personally.

Weng confirmed the links with his group and the big temple that is being investigated, lets hope the same tactics will not be used by the same people.

If they are then these indignant monks and their followers may have their coffins ready for burning and be cleaning their grenade launchers.

In unrelated news the BKK Post is reporting the murder/assignation of Phra Bundhit Padhito today.

[koo wallety tourist]

Dhammakaya Temple just tried to street view it. google car cant get anywhere near it. looks more secure than a CIA rendition and torture center.

[metisdead]

A post in which the reply had been made within the quoted post has been removed.

[rametindallas]

They are worried because they have been 'untouchable' for so long they haven't bothered to cover their money trails so that even a cursory look at their finances will bring the whole rotten house down. Buddha's teachings have been distorted beyond recognition by the Thai version of Buddhism. I pretend to be uninterested in what they do so am privy to much shady goings on in a very important Wat in Bangkok. I would never let them know my feelings but some of what I seen is disgusting when I think of what the practice of Buddha's ideal could mean for Thai society.

There is one monk raising a stink and soon, I think he will be joined by others in the call for reform of Sangha.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/01/us-thailand-buddhism-idUSKBN0LX13Q20150301

The monks making threats against any oversight does not show them in a good light but makes people even more suspicious.

Edited March 2, 2015 by rametindallas

[MaxLee]

WOW!!!! Protect your money that's donated ripped off from the tax payers at all cost...

The true colors of Thai style Buddhism

[Robby nz]

Does this tactic remind you of anything, like the previous administration for instance and their militant group ?

If you attempt to investigate us we will attack you, try to have you disbanded, go after your members personally.

Weng confirmed the links with his group and the big temple that is being investigated, lets hope the same tactics will not be used by the same people.

If they are then these indignant monks and their followers may have their coffins ready for burning and be cleaning their grenade launchers.

In unrelated news the BKK Post is reporting the murder/assignation of Phra Bundhit Padhito today.

Also reported there that residents of Ranong have protested about a collection merit making ceremony by associates of Phra Dhammakaya in their town.

[Doc46]

Don't let the Monks get the power to scrap the NRC The Monks must also reveal/account for the money /wealth that they have accumulated ,,,,, same as anyone else,,,Or are the trying to cover up certain activities?

[harryfrompattaya]

Dhammakaya Temple just tried to street view it. google car cant get anywhere near it. looks more secure than a CIA rendition and torture center.

Do you know for sure it is not?

Watch what you do not know it can be true

Some will think you are a spy

[harryfrompattaya]

Dhammakaya Temple just tried to street view it. google car cant get anywhere near it. looks more secure than a CIA rendition and torture center.

Do you know for sure it is not?

Watch what you do not know it can be true

Some will think you are a spy

[koo wallety tourist]

Dhammakaya Temple just tried to street view it. google car cant get anywhere near it. looks more secure than a CIA rendition and torture center.

Do you know for sure it is not?

Watch what you do not know it can be true

Some will think you are a spy

just as long as you are not accusing me of driving a google streetview car

[NeilSA1]

They are worried because they have been 'untouchable' for so long they haven't bothered to cover their money trails so that even a cursory look at their finances will bring the whole rotten house down. Buddha's teachings have been distorted beyond recognition by the Thai version of Buddhism. I pretend to be uninterested in what they do so am privy to much shady goings on in a very important Wat in Bangkok. I would never let them know my feelings but some of what I seen is disgusting when I think of what the practice of Buddha's ideal could mean for Thai society.

There is one monk raising a stink and soon, I think he will be joined by others in the call for reform of Sangha.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/01/us-thailand-buddhism-idUSKBN0LX13Q20150301

The monks making threats against any oversight does not show them in a good light but makes people even more suspicious.

Thanks, a very good post. Very interesting article you pointed out http://www.reuters.c...N0LX13Q20150301

"There is one monk raising a stink and soon, I think he will be joined by others in the call for reform of Sangha." Regardless of being castigated by some for his prominent role last year in the anti government protests, I respect Issara for his principles. Even before his recent political activity he was known and respected for innovative thinking and assisting the locals.

[toybits]

Honeymoon is over folks!

[toybits]

Dhammakaya Temple just tried to street view it. google car cant get anywhere near it. looks more secure than a CIA rendition and torture center.

Do you know for sure it is not?

Watch what you do not know it can be true

Some will think you are a spy

Why bother? Just Google Earth it.

[blazes]

o promote monks due to seniority rather than rank is absolute nonsense - imagine if the government of anywhere was run by the country's oldest people ??? NUTS. Ecclesiastical rank is not a great yardstick either, but at least presumably you need to show some kind of ability to receive such a rank.

the ability to achieve nirvana that wouldnt be a criteria would it?

No, but it might be a criterION.

[tukkytuktuk]

Buddhism in Thailand is really scarce if you look truly at the religions principles, morals, and ethics. Most of the larger temples and way to many monks take advantage of the peoples beliefs to get rich and have power. I think this is why the order has concern from the NRC looking into their order and their money.

Never have I seen monks walking around with iPads and apple computers and having millions of baht. Never have I seen monks with expensive cars traveling first class to other countries and wearing brand name clothing or accessories. Never have I seen this until I came to Thailand. Monks with girlfriends... This is not Buddhism. Someone needs to look into what has happened here with this supposedly religious sect. This is why they worry now. Exposure would defrock the lot of them.

Foreigners in Thailand will soon be scarce too if you continue insulting Thailand's main religion.

[Artisi]

Time for a big clean-up in the brotherhood, all hi-end smart phones, cameras and video cameras banned along with iPads, tablets etc, Gucci shoes, flash bags, watches etc.. No privately owned motor vehicles, planes, or property unless previously owned and now held in trust by a non-connected second party . Minimum allowable funds held in bank account and audited regularly - all travel outside of local temple / temple / home etc to be reported - any o/seas travel to be documented, justified and vetted and at least 6 months per year confined to a wat of their choosing doing what they are supposed to be doing - not gallivanting around the country / world fund raising or on supposed "Buddhist" retreats, instruction, seminars etc.

But in fairness, lets not lose focus on what monks are supposed to be doing as it was their choice, but at the same time recognise this is the 21st century and a few of todays nick-nacks do form part of todays life - even for monks.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Artisi

[Gunna]

Buddhism in Thailand is really scarce if you look truly at the religions principles, morals, and ethics. Most of the larger temples and way to many monks take advantage of the peoples beliefs to get rich and have power. I think this is why the order has concern from the NRC looking into their order and their money.

Never have I seen monks walking around with iPads and apple computers and having millions of baht. Never have I seen monks with expensive cars traveling first class to other countries and wearing brand name clothing or accessories. Never have I seen this until I came to Thailand. Monks with girlfriends... This is not Buddhism. Someone needs to look into what has happened here with this supposedly religious sect. This is why they worry now. Exposure would defrock the lot of them.

Foreigners in Thailand will soon be scarce too if you continue insulting Thailand's main religion.

He isn't insulting Buddhism - he is telling the truth, a concept many monks have a problem with

[FangFerang]

Does this tactic remind you of anything, like the previous administration for instance and their militant group ?

If you attempt to investigate us we will attack you, try to have you disbanded, go after your members personally.

Weng confirmed the links with his group and the big temple that is being investigated, lets hope the same tactics will not be used by the same people.

If they are then these indignant monks and their followers may have their coffins ready for burning and be cleaning their grenade launchers.

"Does this tactic remind you of anything, like the previous administration for instance and their militant group ?..

If you attempt to investigate us we will attack you, try to have you disbanded, go after your members personally."

Yes, it does sound like the PDRC after they took over Government House, and the slaughter during the student uprisinmg inm the 1970's, and the 2010riots that turned violoent after people were gunned down like sheep in a slew....

Yes, it does remind me of that.

[Gunna]

They are worried because they have been 'untouchable' for so long they haven't bothered to cover their money trails so that even a cursory look at their finances will bring the whole rotten house down. Buddha's teachings have been distorted beyond recognition by the Thai version of Buddhism. I pretend to be uninterested in what they do so am privy to much shady goings on in a very important Wat in Bangkok. I would never let them know my feelings but some of what I seen is disgusting when I think of what the practice of Buddha's ideal could mean for Thai society.

There is one monk raising a stink and soon, I think he will be joined by others in the call for reform of Sangha.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/01/us-thailand-buddhism-idUSKBN0LX13Q20150301

The monks making threats against any oversight does not show them in a good light but makes people even more suspicious.

Thailands 37,075 Buddhist temples are meant to file an annual financial report with the National Office of Buddhism

In 2011 only 1,321 obeyed that rule.

3.5% have nothing to hide

The other 96.5% definitely need investigating

[Robby nz]

Does this tactic remind you of anything, like the previous administration for instance and their militant group ?

If you attempt to investigate us we will attack you, try to have you disbanded, go after your members personally.

Weng confirmed the links with his group and the big temple that is being investigated, lets hope the same tactics will not be used by the same people.

If they are then these indignant monks and their followers may have their coffins ready for burning and be cleaning their grenade launchers.

"Does this tactic remind you of anything, like the previous administration for instance and their militant group ?..

If you attempt to investigate us we will attack you, try to have you disbanded, go after your members personally."

Yes, it does sound like the PDRC after they took over Government House, and the slaughter during the student uprisinmg inm the 1970's, and the 2010riots that turned violoent after people were gunned down like sheep in a slew....

Yes, it does remind me of that.

Took longer than I thought for a red supporter to come in with that one.

But don't get to carried away those of us who were there know the truth and it will come out now your protection is being lifted.

But hay, we are talking about the tactics of intimidation here something your buddies have a patent on.

[Fat Haggis]

Oh I'd hardly be letting off the PDRC carte Blanche when it comes down to intimidation Rob, Election Day last February slip your mind sir?

Of course it's always the Reds who are the child eating monsters and everyone else are saints, all sides are as bad as each other and the day you start accepting that it takes two to tango Rob will maybe be that hell freezes over eh?

Both sides have their tossers in their midst, as does the current establishments but that's just life, being a fanny doesn't belong to one side of the argument, it belongs to both and neither the Reds or the yellows or the Military are violence free are they?

The finger pointing here amongst some members here is a prime example why the Thais themselves will never agree on the colour of <deleted>!! Some posters here look down on others and display huge amounts of bigotism, and elitism, and believe they're the authority, dream on !!

so many preach about its all about the law, and yet most would break the many laws themselves without giving a toss, judge ye not and ye shall not be judged unless it's by a TVF moderator who wields the ultimate big stick!!

The bickering here is like what you'd hear in an infants school playground, it's hilarious to see retired old men behave like my pre school nephews and nieces the entertainment value is well worth it when despite all the mud slinging and accusations 90-95% here don't have a say in how the country they live in is run!!

[seajae]

how the hell did red and yellow shirts get into this, it is about monks and how crooked some of them are. Come on, we all know the reds and yellows are both no good, we also know that monks can also be no good. If these monks are innocent why are they threatening at all, what do they have to hide and just how guilty are they, sounds more like a lot of those complaining have something to hide, they need to be put in their place and by the sound of it the govt intend to do just that. Everyone has to admit that for people that are not supposed to have worldly possessions or wealth a lot of these monks and their temples appear very well to do, just how modest are they in regard to wealth and possessions, time for them to be stripped back to what their religion is based on and not as a get rich quick scheme that it is now for them

Edited March 2, 2015 by seajae