Video: Por Tek Tung - The Thai Body Snatchers

[ColPyat]

I just wonder how much of this stealing from injury victims really goes on and how much is simply rumour based on misconstrued eye witness accounts of volunteers 'rifling' through victim's wallets for contact/ID/Insurance papers. I mean If I saw an accident and one of the rescuers went down the injured party's pocket pulled out his/her wallet and started going through it - as an ill informed voyer, I guess I'd think they were robbing him/her.

You have a good point there. Never thought about that before.

Every time when there is a un- or semi-conscious victim, volonteers will go through the wallet to find an ID, or even a maybe hospital or insurance card. That helps to decide to which hospital to send the person. Also his/her pockets will be turned inside out, sometimes on the road, sometimes in the hospital, to collect the posessions and safeguard them, and handed to the hospital staff.

This is standard procedure.

Edited August 29, 2006 by ColPyat

[Jet Raven]

I just wonder how much of this stealing from injury victims really goes on and how much is simply rumour based on misconstrued eye witness accounts of volunteers 'rifling' through victim's wallets for contact/ID/Insurance papers. I mean If I saw an accident and one of the rescuers went down the injured party's pocket pulled out his/her wallet and started going through it - as an ill informed voyer, I guess I'd think they were robbing him/her.

You have a good point there. Never thought about that before.

Every time when there is a un- or semi-conscious victim, volonteers will go through the wallet to find an ID, or even a maybe hospital or insurance card. That helps to decide to which hospital to send the person. Also his/her pockets will be turned inside out, sometimes on the road, sometimes in the hospital, to collect the posessions and safeguard them, and handed to the hospital staff.

This is standard procedure.

[Jet Raven]

While we are all pondering this subject......

The western world, the US and England, at one time had ambulance chasers and perhaps still do. While I don't know if they actually pulled bodies out of vehicles, they certainly were involved in financial dealings connected with insurance scams. The third world is not that far behind us in years and we must remember that. Fight for what is right, offer humane assistance, and really try to help ensure that people are looked after with compassion. Ripping off gold and silver are not that important if a life will be saved. Ripping off identity papers precluding the notification of family members is just cruel.

[sting01]

These fondations hold the bodies for randsome and then the personal article are sold.

This is utter bullshit.

The foundations send the corpses to the morgue, if so demanded by the police officer in charge, otherwise the corpses are left with the relatives. The relatives can ask for free coffins at the headquarters of the foundation. Unclaimed corpses are given a free burial at the foundation's graveyards, and every couple of years a free collective funeral.

Relatives can later claim a corpse that is buried in their graveyards, but it is not the foundation who holds the corpse at ransom, but the hospitals refuse to have the corpse handed over in case of unpaid bills.

As to the posted story, it contains numerous mistakes and inaccuracies.

The yellow clothed personal with monthly salaries number around 200 people, the volonteers, the original base of the Por Teck Tueng more than 3000. The medical training has over the years improved a lot, they have to attand regular courses in EMS.

As to the thefts - they do occasionally happen, but every vocation has its bad apples. If this happens the Foundation is glad when this is brought to their attantion so that the case can be investigated and the guilty can be thrown out and a case with the police can be filed. Often though the thefts that Por Teck Tueng volonteers are accused of have not been committed by them. Bystanders are often first at the scene, and do steal the valuables. Thefts happen in hospitals as well. In suburban areas are fake rescue troops as well who try to get to the injured before the official rescue volonteers arrive.

Corpses are generally stripped off their valuables before being sent to the morgue, and the valuables are given to the police officer in charge, or the relatives, if present.

Fights over corpses do not happen anymore in Bangkok since about 15 years, when the authorities and the two main rival organisations have sorted out territories and shifts. Nowadays Por Teck Tueng and Ruamkatanyu work on alternating days.

Things aren't perfect, of course. There are at times territorial fights happening. But one has to understand that the volonteers of the foundation have to have a certain amount of respect on the streets. These volonteers do have to pull dead and injured from the roughest neighborhoods in town, if people there don't fear them, their work cannot be performed because of the danger of being attacked by the gangs.

And yes, it would be nice if the would be better equipped and trained, but people should not forget that the volonteers do finance everything themselves, use their own cars, buy their own petrol and medical eqippment. Nobody gives them anything.

Without these foundations there simply would be no functioning EMS system in Thailand.

The response time is of course not as fast as in the west, but this is not the west, this is a developing country, and for that the response time and the whole system is very good. I am not aware of any statistics on the response time, but my personal experience, being with the Por Teck Tueng for over six years, is that we are in inner Bangkok rarely slower than ten minutes from the point of getting the call.

THAT IS A FULLBAG OF BULLSHIT

THIS ORGANISATION IS SIMPLY COMPARABLE TO A GANG OF BODY SNATCHERS, OR GHOOLS (GHOULS?).

IT'S ANOTHER DISGRACE ON EARTH.

More quietly, I saw those people operate on the road to Polpet, 40 km outside Bangkok in 2003. Doing so in any civilisate country would have give us years of jails. The way they handle people injured, the way to first take their belongings and then handle the injured and dead ... A total shame.

You have a good point there. Never thought about that before.

Every time when there is a un- or semi-conscious victim, volonteers will go through the wallet to find an ID, or even a maybe hospital or insurance card. That helps to decide to which hospital to send the person. Also his/her pockets will be turned inside out, sometimes on the road, sometimes in the hospital, to collect the posessions and safeguard them, and handed to the hospital staff.

This is standard procedure.

Yes, that sound logical, just .... I am hit by a truck, in that case I will not care the hospital you will send me, as long as it's the closest one ... Choose the right hospital mean also choose the place where you will get the best tip, it is not???????????????????????????????????????????????????

As ColPyat seems to be involved in this organisatin/ghool gang, he have the right to feel offended by my comments, he also have the right to think wisely about what he is doing anytime he working for those people.

[ColPyat]

These fondations hold the bodies for randsome and then the personal article are sold.

This is utter bullshit.

The foundations send the corpses to the morgue, if so demanded by the police officer in charge, otherwise the corpses are left with the relatives. The relatives can ask for free coffins at the headquarters of the foundation. Unclaimed corpses are given a free burial at the foundation's graveyards, and every couple of years a free collective funeral.

Relatives can later claim a corpse that is buried in their graveyards, but it is not the foundation who holds the corpse at ransom, but the hospitals refuse to have the corpse handed over in case of unpaid bills.

As to the posted story, it contains numerous mistakes and inaccuracies.

The yellow clothed personal with monthly salaries number around 200 people, the volonteers, the original base of the Por Teck Tueng more than 3000. The medical training has over the years improved a lot, they have to attand regular courses in EMS.

As to the thefts - they do occasionally happen, but every vocation has its bad apples. If this happens the Foundation is glad when this is brought to their attantion so that the case can be investigated and the guilty can be thrown out and a case with the police can be filed. Often though the thefts that Por Teck Tueng volonteers are accused of have not been committed by them. Bystanders are often first at the scene, and do steal the valuables. Thefts happen in hospitals as well. In suburban areas are fake rescue troops as well who try to get to the injured before the official rescue volonteers arrive.

Corpses are generally stripped off their valuables before being sent to the morgue, and the valuables are given to the police officer in charge, or the relatives, if present.

Fights over corpses do not happen anymore in Bangkok since about 15 years, when the authorities and the two main rival organisations have sorted out territories and shifts. Nowadays Por Teck Tueng and Ruamkatanyu work on alternating days.

Things aren't perfect, of course. There are at times territorial fights happening. But one has to understand that the volonteers of the foundation have to have a certain amount of respect on the streets. These volonteers do have to pull dead and injured from the roughest neighborhoods in town, if people there don't fear them, their work cannot be performed because of the danger of being attacked by the gangs.

And yes, it would be nice if the would be better equipped and trained, but people should not forget that the volonteers do finance everything themselves, use their own cars, buy their own petrol and medical eqippment. Nobody gives them anything.

Without these foundations there simply would be no functioning EMS system in Thailand.

The response time is of course not as fast as in the west, but this is not the west, this is a developing country, and for that the response time and the whole system is very good. I am not aware of any statistics on the response time, but my personal experience, being with the Por Teck Tueng for over six years, is that we are in inner Bangkok rarely slower than ten minutes from the point of getting the call.

THAT IS A FULLBAG OF BULLSHIT

THIS ORGANISATION IS SIMPLY COMPARABLE TO A GANG OF BODY SNATCHERS, OR GHOOLS (GHOULS?).

IT'S ANOTHER DISGRACE ON EARTH.

More quietly, I saw those people operate on the road to Polpet, 40 km outside Bangkok in 2003. Doing so in any civilisate country would have give us years of jails. The way they handle people injured, the way to first take their belongings and then handle the injured and dead ... A total shame.

You have a good point there. Never thought about that before.

Every time when there is a un- or semi-conscious victim, volonteers will go through the wallet to find an ID, or even a maybe hospital or insurance card. That helps to decide to which hospital to send the person. Also his/her pockets will be turned inside out, sometimes on the road, sometimes in the hospital, to collect the posessions and safeguard them, and handed to the hospital staff.

This is standard procedure.

Yes, that sound logical, just .... I am hit by a truck, in that case I will not care the hospital you will send me, as long as it's the closest one ... Choose the right hospital mean also choose the place where you will get the best tip, it is not???????????????????????????????????????????????????

As ColPyat seems to be involved in this organisatin/ghool gang, he have the right to feel offended by my comments, he also have the right to think wisely about what he is doing anytime he working for those people.

Nice.

Before making insulting comments you should maybe ask about why certain procedures are in place.

If you are hit by a truck you will care very much which hospital you are sent to. If you are just sent to a private hospital that may be closest, but you have no hospital ID, insurance card etc. - you wil be refused treatment in that facility. I have seen people who died because of this. Even government hospitals occasionally refuse admittance. On many occasions we had to drive around several hospitals before we could find one that admitted patients.

So, yes, it is necessary to search through someone's wallet if the victim is unconscious. If it would be, as you allege, to send him to a hospital that "gives the best tip" - then this would be hardly necessary, as the patient would be driven there without having to find out first about his ID.

So you conclude that the Por Teck Tueng is "ANOTHER DISGRACE ON EARTH" by having seen once how "they" operate on "the road to Polpet, 40 km outside Bangkok in 2003"?

WOW - you must be a clairvoyant, or at least a genius comparable to Einstein.

Do you even know if the Por Teck Tueng volonteers have been at this case, or not any other foundation? Do you have any competence whatsoever to be able to decide the quality of care given, or do you just shoot your mouth here? How can you judge a foundation with more than 3000 volonteers and many affiliated foundations all over the country by having observed one incident?

And speculating on my personal motives here, in the way you did, is a flame, and i will report your post to the moderators.

Edited September 2, 2006 by ColPyat

[sriracha john]

[Tony Clifton]

Out of curiosity, does Por Teck Tueng come from the word pro-tec-tion/pro-tec-ting ?

[ColPyat]

Out of curiosity, does Por Teck Tueng come from the word pro-tec-tion/pro-tec-ting ?

No, it doesn't.

[jdinasia]

[sonnyJ]

Now I got conserned of my well being, having an insurance but in most cases will pay you back later. Need cash at the hospital, so if I don't have a couple thousand in my wallet to get addmittted in the hospital, will the rescue org finance it temporarily or not?

[ColPyat]

Now I got conserned of my well being, having an insurance but in most cases will pay you back later. Need cash at the hospital, so if I don't have a couple thousand in my wallet to get addmittted in the hospital, will the rescue org finance it temporarily or not?

No, that is not their job. They will only transport you to the hospital. These volonteers do this service free of charge, and use their own funds and cars. They cannot be expected to guarantee for the payment of hospital bills.

I would advise anyone to have a hospital ID card where you are registered as a patient, and a credit card with you at all times here.

In case you have neither, and are unconscious, you will be transported to the district government hospital that has the allocated budget to treat foreigners. Generally in such a case your embassy will be notified, so you should make sure that you have a passport, or other ID card with you here, so that identification can be made possible.

Every graveyard for unclaimed copses here in Thailand (run by the foundations as well) has a few farang buried there were sadly identification was not possible.

Edited September 2, 2006 by ColPyat

[Plus]

PTT and similar foundations have got reputations and I don't think it's totally undeserved. Where there's smoke there's fire, usually. We are not talking just about one five year old report on BBC.

If what Colpyat says is true, great, but why is in start contrast to what you hear about it from reglar Thais.

Also we haven't heard good reasons for people to sacrifice their time, labour, and even trucks in exchange for nothing. That's pretty unusual for Thailand. In fact it sounds like a full time job, not volunteering, yet only few people get paid for this by the foundation according to Colpyat.

I don't want to accuse him of lying or misrepresenting the real situation, but I still hope to get picked up by a hospital ambulance.

And if PTT turns up first I hope Colpyat is right about them.

[ColPyat]

PTT and similar foundations have got reputations and I don't think it's totally undeserved. Where there's smoke there's fire, usually. We are not talking just about one five year old report on BBC.

If what Colpyat says is true, great, but why is in start contrast to what you hear about it from reglar Thais.

Also we haven't heard good reasons for people to sacrifice their time, labour, and even trucks in exchange for nothing. That's pretty unusual for Thailand. In fact it sounds like a full time job, not volunteering, yet only few people get paid for this by the foundation according to Colpyat.

I don't want to accuse him of lying or misrepresenting the real situation, but I still hope to get picked up by a hospital ambulance.

And if PTT turns up first I hope Colpyat is right about them.

Because most "regular Thais" have no idea how these foundations work, unless they are volonteers themselves, or have friends who are volonteers. Nevertheless, you will see many "regular Thais" making donations at the fondation's headquarters, especially when one of their relatives has died - so, these foundations can't be all bad.

The foundations are not secret societies - their headquarters are open to the public. If you, or anyone does not believe me (or the poster here who is a Ruamkatanyu volonteer), you can go there yourself and ask all the questions you want. The Por Teck Tueng headquarters is in Prapachai just after the police station, the Ruamkatanyu is at the Hualompong temple.

[-jr-]

PTT and similar foundations have got reputations and I don't think it's totally undeserved. Where there's smoke there's fire, usually. We are not talking just about one five year old report on BBC.

If what Colpyat says is true, great, but why is in start contrast to what you hear about it from reglar Thais.

Also we haven't heard good reasons for people to sacrifice their time, labour, and even trucks in exchange for nothing. That's pretty unusual for Thailand. In fact it sounds like a full time job, not volunteering, yet only few people get paid for this by the foundation according to Colpyat.

I don't want to accuse him of lying or misrepresenting the real situation, but I still hope to get picked up by a hospital ambulance.

And if PTT turns up first I hope Colpyat is right about them.

Because most "regular Thais" have no idea how these foundations work, unless they are volonteers themselves, or have friends who are volonteers. Nevertheless, you will see many "regular Thais" making donations at the fondation's headquarters, especially when one of their relatives has died - so, these foundations can't be all bad.

The foundations are not secret societies - their headquarters are open to the public. If you, or anyone does not believe me (or the poster here who is a Ruamkatanyu volonteer), you can go there yourself and ask all the questions you want. The Por Teck Tueng headquarters is in Prapachai just after the police station, the Ruamkatanyu is at the Hualompong temple.

Agree. I'm Thai and I don't know much about PTT as well. What we heard from other people are mostly only bad things because it's juicier to talk about. But I remember a couple of years before, a group of claimed-to-be PTT volunteers with ID and certificate was asking for donation on the street nearby my office at noon. It was their bad day because one of my colleague has a brother worked with PTT and so she knew the group was a fake. So she made a call to her brother and about 15 minutes after, we saw those group running past the shop we were having lunch. I don't know if they ran from police or local PTT group. The fruit seller told me later that, out of blue, they ran away. My guess was that it's the local PTT group and they didn't run after the fake group because it's impossible to run after someone there (small street with thousands office workers coming down for lunch).

It would be nice if every one knows that the group of people who asked for donation are fake. Apart from people who know people in PTT, I don't think even Thais know that fact. But I doubt if any TV or radio station would care to tell people about it even if they were asked to. Fake ID and bumper sticker is a piece of cake, anyone with good color printer and laminate machine can do that.

By the way, for those who are sceptical about degree of medical training for PTT volunteers, I recommend you asking some Thai friends (if you have, otherwise ask bargirls who can assist you) to write a note in Thai, saying "No Por Tek Tung, please call <whatever-number-you-believe-it-can-help-you>". You believe PTT would make you cripple or dead anyway, so it couldn't be worse, right? And I hope PTT would leave you alone as you wish, too.

By the way, as someone said many pages ago, it's something government should provide. However, I think it's great when the citizen does not just complain and wait for government action, especially here in Thailand. We know how corrupted the system is and the worse is that they don't care about our complaints unless they could find a way get a benefit from that. I heard that there was a corruption in ambulance project from previous Bangkok governer. To them (politicians), emergency service might be just another source to made money from the system.

[Plus]

I have no doubt that they really exist.

People don't learn about PTT from visiting the headquarters, they learn from actual accidents, and they pass the stories to their friends. Rumors and gossips, but where there's smoke...

In my view that problem hasn't beed adequately explained - the general perception that has been formed about these organisations. Is it only because of fake volunteer teams? But you said they operate only in remote areas and are chased out by the real PTT.

Bottom line - these services are certainly better than nothing, and when accidents happen people don't have a choice who to be rescued by.

[ColPyat]

I have no doubt that they really exist.

People don't learn about PTT from visiting the headquarters, they learn from actual accidents, and they pass the stories to their friends. Rumors and gossips, but where there's smoke...

In my view that problem hasn't beed adequately explained - the general perception that has been formed about these organisations. Is it only because of fake volunteer teams? But you said they operate only in remote areas and are chased out by the real PTT.

Bottom line - these services are certainly better than nothing, and when accidents happen people don't have a choice who to be rescued by.

I believe that i have stated in my first post in this thread that there are bad apples in the Por Teck Tueng. As there are in any vocation. Anywhere in the world. It's human nature.

But it is my believe that under the Por Teck Tueng volonteers are far less corrupt people than, lets say, under the police, or the police volonteers.

The Por Teck Tueng has the highest profile under all the groups. But do you know how many different groups are actually around here?

Just a few in Bangkok and surroundings:

Rescue: Por Teck Tueng

Ruamkatanyu

Watchila

Bualuang (in Samut Prakan)

Then you got the different Radio groups, such as Ruamchuayduaygan, Chalee, Pram Gao

Then you got the firefighter volonteers.

And the the different Police volonteers, such as OrBorDorLor, Damluat Chaoban, Arsar Chalarjohn

I am sure that my list is far from complete. Especially in the suburbs are many small outfits who often only cover a particular township.

Each one of them will even by Thais often be called "Por Teck Tueng" when they arrive, as this is even for Thais extremely difficult to differentiate.

By hanging out in the headquarters you can learn a lot, and you might make friends who invite you to ride with them. We could save ourselves a lot of those debates here, if you people who doubt about what i have stated here in this thread, would take the time and not just debate in virtual world, and go out and actually find out yourselves what reality is, and what is exageration.

Let me describe you a typical case, showing what those volonteers have to go through regularly:

Tonight my friends got a radio call about a victim in a fight. Simple radio code for fight, and location. Arriving at the scene in a slum, instead of being able to pick up the victim, we were faced by a hostile crowd of maybe 50 people in the middle of a violent argument.

And the last thing they wanted was the Por Teck Tueng volonteers interfere in their fight. So, instead of welcoming the people who take the injured to the hospital they start abusing and threatening the volonteers. Yes, we legged it. No, there was no police.

I have in similar situations seen Por Teck Tueng volonteers being attacked with knifes and machetes, and even police legging it.

[ColPyat]

By the way, for those who are sceptical about degree of medical training for PTT volunteers, I recommend you asking some Thai friends (if you have, otherwise ask bargirls who can assist you) to write a note in Thai, saying "No Por Tek Tung, please call <whatever-number-you-believe-it-can-help-you>". You believe PTT would make you cripple or dead anyway, so it couldn't be worse, right? And I hope PTT would leave you alone as you wish, too.

Thanks for your post.

And yes, you are right. A good advise for the die-hard haters of the Por Teck Tueng: the volonteers will not force anybody on their trucks. You can refuse to be brought to the hospital, if you think you can wait it out.

[terry57]

I have no doubt that they really exist.

People don't learn about PTT from visiting the headquarters, they learn from actual accidents, and they pass the stories to their friends. Rumors and gossips, but where there's smoke...

In my view that problem hasn't beed adequately explained - the general perception that has been formed about these organisations. Is it only because of fake volunteer teams? But you said they operate only in remote areas and are chased out by the real PTT.

Bottom line - these services are certainly better than nothing, and when accidents happen people don't have a choice who to be rescued by.

very nice quote plus,

" these services are better than nothing "

" people dont have a choice who to be rescued by "

in all my 23 years of emergency service work,

when performing road rescue,

i have never once had a person ask me for my qualification's or identification.

they are just looking into my eyes like i am there god, as i am there to assist them and possibly save there life.

nothing more terrifying than being trapped in a car wreck.

the victim is so gratefull to have anyone there to assist him.

to be perfectly honest and in my opinion only punters,

if i lost my wallet, shoes, or anything else after having my life saved at a car accident,

i would'nt give a toss, as id still be alive and all those things are material only and could be replaced.

cheers

PS

some of these guys might have bad intent as far as robbing you of material things but i would like to raise one small but very important point.

they provide man power at an incident coupled with experience so i beg to suggest that they would save your life first and then rob you on the way to the hospital.

if this is the case they can have my wallet for saving my life.

[sriracha john]

But I remember a couple of years before, a group of claimed-to-be PTT volunteers with ID and certificate was asking for donation on the street nearby my office at noon. It was their bad day because one of my colleague has a brother worked with PTT and so she knew the group was a fake. So she made a call to her brother and about 15 minutes after, we saw those group running past the shop we were having lunch. I don't know if they ran from police or local PTT group. The fruit seller told me later that, out of blue, they ran away. My guess was that it's the local PTT group and they didn't run after the fake group because it's impossible to run after someone there (small street with thousands office workers coming down for lunch).

Thank you for the additional description of the Bandido tactics utilized by these compassionate, benevolent volunteers.

One wonders that if they used the same level of enthusiasm to weed out their " few bad apples" if their overall public perception would not improve.

[sonnyJ]

Thanks for you all, especially ColPyat for explaining the realities involved here. I have learned a lot

[sting01]

These fondations hold the bodies for randsome and then the personal article are sold.

This is utter bullshit.

The foundations send the corpses to the morgue, if so demanded by the police officer in charge, otherwise the corpses are left with the relatives. The relatives can ask for free coffins at the headquarters of the foundation. Unclaimed corpses are given a free burial at the foundation's graveyards, and every couple of years a free collective funeral.

Relatives can later claim a corpse that is buried in their graveyards, but it is not the foundation who holds the corpse at ransom, but the hospitals refuse to have the corpse handed over in case of unpaid bills.

As to the posted story, it contains numerous mistakes and inaccuracies.

The yellow clothed personal with monthly salaries number around 200 people, the volonteers, the original base of the Por Teck Tueng more than 3000. The medical training has over the years improved a lot, they have to attand regular courses in EMS.

As to the thefts - they do occasionally happen, but every vocation has its bad apples. If this happens the Foundation is glad when this is brought to their attantion so that the case can be investigated and the guilty can be thrown out and a case with the police can be filed. Often though the thefts that Por Teck Tueng volonteers are accused of have not been committed by them. Bystanders are often first at the scene, and do steal the valuables. Thefts happen in hospitals as well. In suburban areas are fake rescue troops as well who try to get to the injured before the official rescue volonteers arrive.

Corpses are generally stripped off their valuables before being sent to the morgue, and the valuables are given to the police officer in charge, or the relatives, if present.

Fights over corpses do not happen anymore in Bangkok since about 15 years, when the authorities and the two main rival organisations have sorted out territories and shifts. Nowadays Por Teck Tueng and Ruamkatanyu work on alternating days.

Things aren't perfect, of course. There are at times territorial fights happening. But one has to understand that the volonteers of the foundation have to have a certain amount of respect on the streets. These volonteers do have to pull dead and injured from the roughest neighborhoods in town, if people there don't fear them, their work cannot be performed because of the danger of being attacked by the gangs.

And yes, it would be nice if the would be better equipped and trained, but people should not forget that the volonteers do finance everything themselves, use their own cars, buy their own petrol and medical eqippment. Nobody gives them anything.

Without these foundations there simply would be no functioning EMS system in Thailand.

The response time is of course not as fast as in the west, but this is not the west, this is a developing country, and for that the response time and the whole system is very good. I am not aware of any statistics on the response time, but my personal experience, being with the Por Teck Tueng for over six years, is that we are in inner Bangkok rarely slower than ten minutes from the point of getting the call.

THAT IS A FULLBAG OF BULLSHIT

THIS ORGANISATION IS SIMPLY COMPARABLE TO A GANG OF BODY SNATCHERS, OR GHOOLS (GHOULS?).

IT'S ANOTHER DISGRACE ON EARTH.

More quietly, I saw those people operate on the road to Polpet, 40 km outside Bangkok in 2003. Doing so in any civilisate country would have give us years of jails. The way they handle people injured, the way to first take their belongings and then handle the injured and dead ... A total shame.

You have a good point there. Never thought about that before.

Every time when there is a un- or semi-conscious victim, volonteers will go through the wallet to find an ID, or even a maybe hospital or insurance card. That helps to decide to which hospital to send the person. Also his/her pockets will be turned inside out, sometimes on the road, sometimes in the hospital, to collect the posessions and safeguard them, and handed to the hospital staff.

This is standard procedure.

Yes, that sound logical, just .... I am hit by a truck, in that case I will not care the hospital you will send me, as long as it's the closest one ... Choose the right hospital mean also choose the place where you will get the best tip, it is not???????????????????????????????????????????????????

As ColPyat seems to be involved in this organisatin/ghool gang, he have the right to feel offended by my comments, he also have the right to think wisely about what he is doing anytime he working for those people.

Nice.

Before making insulting comments you should maybe ask about why certain procedures are in place.

If you are hit by a truck you will care very much which hospital you are sent to. If you are just sent to a private hospital that may be closest, but you have no hospital ID, insurance card etc. - you wil be refused treatment in that facility. I have seen people who died because of this. Even government hospitals occasionally refuse admittance. On many occasions we had to drive around several hospitals before we could find one that admitted patients.

So, yes, it is necessary to search through someone's wallet if the victim is unconscious. If it would be, as you allege, to send him to a hospital that "gives the best tip" - then this would be hardly necessary, as the patient would be driven there without having to find out first about his ID.

So you conclude that the Por Teck Tueng is "ANOTHER DISGRACE ON EARTH" by having seen once how "they" operate on "the road to Polpet, 40 km outside Bangkok in 2003"?

WOW - you must be a clairvoyant, or at least a genius comparable to Einstein.

Do you even know if the Por Teck Tueng volonteers have been at this case, or not any other foundation? Do you have any competence whatsoever to be able to decide the quality of care given, or do you just shoot your mouth here? How can you judge a foundation with more than 3000 volonteers and many affiliated foundations all over the country by having observed one incident?

And speculating on my personal motives here, in the way you did, is a flame, and i will report your post to the moderators.

As stated it was not a flame, but pure and rude insults to that foundation and to any others. As you are a member, I do agree you have the right to feel offended. Please feel free to report to any moderator.

To precise more, I simply used the wording (with a bad translation as I am not an english native) used by the law in my country to define people acting like that (the word ghoul is not from the t\laws books but from 'Gang of New York', so on that word you can complain). Life is important, and anyone who have simple clue about rescue know an injured person should be not manipulate without extrem precaution (it's the concept of over accident), obviously people involved in those king of foundation are not aware of thisconcept (and it can lead to complete paralizis for exemple in case of spine problem).

Also, I ABSOLUTELY don't believe you when you affirm hospitals will not accept you even in case of urgency/life threatening. I think you do not understand the implication of what you are saying, it can be understood as : doctors who do not respect the Hyppocrat text (Still important), hospital looking only for benefit and not the public health, even it can mean 'refuse to help someone in danger' offense to the law even in thailand. So for that I am sorry, but it look like a mere bullshit, it's well know thai people in general and thai hospitals in this special cases try to do their best in any circontances (as proof I invite you to read what people said after the tsunamis on how local thai people helped the tourist).

On the other hand, if you really told us the truth, please feel free to state which hospitals act like that, please also state your infos, I will be more than glad to spread the word aboard, because if it's true, it's trully better to NOT visit a country where people are ready to let you die because you do not have an insurance in their hospital, or are ready to cause more injuries (broken spine) just to improve their quotas even if they have no skills in rescue. So please feel free to tell the truth on this point. Because there is a lot of tourist , or potential tourist in this forum, and I am sure they will love your answer on that point (whatever you answer can be).

For the record, I am not Einstein, I have an average IQ.

Edited September 4, 2006 by sting01

[ColPyat]

Also, I ABSOLUTELY don't believe you when you affirm hospitals will not accept you even in case of urgency/life threatening. I think you do not understand the implication of what you are saying, it can be understood as : doctors who do not respect the Hyppocrat text (Still important), hospital looking only for benefit and not the public health, even it can mean 'refuse to help someone in danger' offense to the law even in thailand.

I absuletely understand the implications what i am saying.

A few years ago a guy who was shot died in my arms from blood loss as he was refused treatment in the closest hospital. He could have been saved by a simple clamping of the artery that was shot through, and a drip.

About two years ago a female accident victim had a miscarriage in our car while we were trying to find a hospital, accepting her and her fellow victims. We found one after we actually begged them to accept the victims.

Last year a cop died. First because the govenmental "ambulance" arrived far too late, ordering us not to transport the victim. The bystanders not understanding that we were bond by their orders were not far away from lynching us.

In the Hospital (a government hospital) we frantically tried to reach his superior officers or reatives by phone and radio, as the hospital refused to do anything without their signitures. When they have arrived - it was already too late.

I got more experiences along those lines than is space here in this thread.

Basically, i could not care less about your frigging theoretical implications regarding the hypocratic oath, as i care far more about the implications of people dying needlessly in my arms.

We never state the hospitals in which this happens in public, as we run the risk of them never accepting any injured anymore we deliver.

And don't try to tell me anything about the tsunami please, i have been there in the first reponse team, one of only about 200 volonteers of these foundations for the whole Pang Nga Province getting rid of the corpses, while the Thai police was busy looting, and the Thai Army was busy catching Burmese survivors and pushing them over the border, regardless of injuries, legal status, or loss of their relatives.

And yes, if possible we use extreme prcaution when removing somebody who is injured, especially when we suspect spinal injury. But there are times when this simply is not possible, especially when a victim is wedged into his car, and has to be cut out.

The quality of training is improving constantly, as the member of the Ruamkatanyu has pointed out here very well.

You might be one of our next customers, you never know. And even if you are a complete prick - we still will do our best to save you.

[Plus]

So there are dozens of groups operating in Bangkok, and only one or two of them are "clean". Why didn't you say so in the beginning, Colpyat?

Now it's easy to understand why there are rumours, and why there are passionate responses.

What are the chances of being picked up by PTT themselves? 50/50?

[ColPyat]

So there are dozens of groups operating in Bangkok, and only one or two of them are "clean". Why didn't you say so in the beginning, Colpyat?

Now it's easy to understand why there are rumours, and why there are passionate responses.

What are the chances of being picked up by PTT themselves? 50/50?

Is my English that bad? Or do you misunderstand me on purpose?

I have never stated that the Por Teck Tueng is completely clean - what i have stated is that they are mostly very engaged volonteers with a few bad apples.

No, I have not stated that the other groups i have listed are all dirty, i have only listed them in order to show how confusing the amount of different volonteer organisations are, that operate here. What i have stated is, that it is my personal belive that the rescue organisations are cleaner than Police, or Police Volonteers.

Police Volonteers generally are not allowed to pick up injured, but occasionally do, either because they are over enthusiastic, or because there is nobody else around. Radio volonteers are not allowed to pick up injured, but occasionally do, for similar reasons.

What i have stated is that all the different groups are by "regular" Thais mostly called 'Por Teck Tueng' as even for "regular" Thais it is very difficult t differentiate between the different groups.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Here in Bangkok chances are about 99% that you are picked up by the Por teck Tueng, the Ruamkatanyu in case of an accident, depending who presently has duty in the the area you had the misfortune to get into a problem.

[meemiathai]

Life is important, and anyone who have simple clue about rescue know an injured person should be not manipulate without extrem precaution (it's the concept of over accident), obviously people involved in those king of foundation are not aware of thisconcept (and it can lead to complete paralizis for exemple in case of spine problem).

Just for your information, it wasn't until about the last 10 years in HK that victims in traffic accidents were handled with so-called extreme precautions. Before that firemen at scene simply just get hold of whatever they can and throw the victims into an ambulance, and that was when the fire department was still managed by westerners, yes the brits. And looting has only stopped about 20 years.

And you people think it's only thai emergency responders who drink or misbehave? The farang ones don't? You have never seen fat unfit clumsy farang fireman?

I have absolutely absolutely no idea why people will expect things to be the same here as they are in developed countries. Maybe they simply just think they are superior or what?

[Patex]

Also, I ABSOLUTELY don't believe you when you affirm hospitals will not accept you even in case of urgency/life threatening... because if it's true, it's trully better to NOT visit a country where people are ready to let you die because you do not have an insurance...

Don't visit Thailand........... or the USA

[terry57]

Life is important, and anyone who have simple clue about rescue know an injured person should be not manipulate without extrem precaution (it's the concept of over accident), obviously people involved in those king of foundation are not aware of thisconcept (and it can lead to complete paralizis for exemple in case of spine problem).

Just for your information, it wasn't until about the last 10 years in HK that victims in traffic accidents were handled with so-called extreme precautions. Before that firemen at scene simply just get hold of whatever they can and throw the victims into an ambulance, and that was when the fire department was still managed by westerners, yes the brits. And looting has only stopped about 20 years.

And you people think it's only thai emergency responders who drink or misbehave? The farang ones don't? You have never seen fat unfit clumsy farang fireman?

I have absolutely absolutely no idea why people will expect things to be the same here as they are in developed countries. Maybe they simply just think they are superior or what?

well mr thai,

your post is fairly well spot on as i work with some fat unfit fireman.

i try my best to stay fit as i dont like the look of some of my comrades as it does'nt instill confidence in the public to see fireman looking like this.

problem being that firefighters are human and coupled with older age and injury find it hard

sometimes to keep the kilo's off.

i have discussed this amoungst some other fire fighters and the best we can come up with is this :

regarding road rescue,

we would rather have a fat unfit fireman who is a veteran, than a superman recruit who has just come from fireman school.

when it comes to road rescue you need experienced people who have done the hard work time and time again.

much like our friend up top who has been fighting off all the punters and trying to justify the good work that most of his people put in.

cant see why all you people are so wound up about this issue as this is bloody thailand and not the u.s.a.

cant expect 911 to come rocking up with all the bells and whistles to save your sorry arse so just be gratefull that someone is there to help you.

its not how your rescuer looks, but what he has inside his head that will save you coupled with decent rescue equipment and medical help.

in ozzy,

firefighters are well trained to deal with medical emergency's .

actually in perth we are under going up skilling on our medical training.

we always hope that an ambulance gets to the job before us, as they are the experts in medical care.

we are the experts in rescue of all sorts, but i can tell you one thing :

when the bells ring and we are called to car versus car, or car versus truck or tree or train we hate it.

spare a thought for the rescuers people and all you are doing is pissing on this poster for daring to be part of a rescue crew.

as he has stated many times here , dont &lt;deleted&gt; on all the rescuers because of some tossers amoung'st them.

bottom line is : this is bleeding thailand, this is the situation here in thailand and if you continue to complain piss of home will you.

cheers friends

[meemiathai]

Dear Terry,

I absolutely agree that it is not very clever to judge the capability of a person merely by his outlook. My comment was not meant to offend those who don't look reasonably fit as a fireman.

I was rather trying to point out that there are bad apples everywhere.

I sure do believe that the standard of rescue work is much higher in the west than it is in Thailand at the moment.

But what I dislike is some people think all thais are just bloody useless. And I don't think that is a right attitude even if one is from a more advanced country.

Cheers mate.

[terry57]

Dear Terry,

I absolutely agree that it is not very clever to judge the capability of a person merely by his outlook. My comment was not meant to offend those who don't look reasonably fit as a fireman.

I was rather trying to point out that there are bad apples everywhere.

I sure do believe that the standard of rescue work is much higher in the west than it is in Thailand at the moment.

But what I dislike is some people think all thais are just bloody useless. And I don't think that is a right attitude even if one is from a more advanced country.

Cheers mate.

i would say that a person who dares to espouse that thai's are useless obviously hav'nt had a lot to do with them and are speaking &lt;deleted&gt;.

i would say the exact opposite, and say that thai's are very smart.

i have had a lot to do with them business wise in the past and i'll tell you one thing,

if you are not very smart doing business in los with the thai's you will lose your money for sure.

so i ask the punters this question, ?

" who is the smart one " ?

cheers punting friends .

[sting01]

Also, I ABSOLUTELY don't believe you when you affirm hospitals will not accept you even in case of urgency/life threatening. I think you do not understand the implication of what you are saying, it can be understood as : doctors who do not respect the Hyppocrat text (Still important), hospital looking only for benefit and not the public health, even it can mean 'refuse to help someone in danger' offense to the law even in thailand.

I absuletely understand the implications what i am saying.

A few years ago a guy who was shot died in my arms from blood loss as he was refused treatment in the closest hospital. He could have been saved by a simple clamping of the artery that was shot through, and a drip.

About two years ago a female accident victim had a miscarriage in our car while we were trying to find a hospital, accepting her and her fellow victims. We found one after we actually begged them to accept the victims.

Last year a cop died. First because the govenmental "ambulance" arrived far too late, ordering us not to transport the victim. The bystanders not understanding that we were bond by their orders were not far away from lynching us.

In the Hospital (a government hospital) we frantically tried to reach his superior officers or reatives by phone and radio, as the hospital refused to do anything without their signitures. When they have arrived - it was already too late.

I got more experiences along those lines than is space here in this thread.

Basically, i could not care less about your frigging theoretical implications regarding the hypocratic oath, as i care far more about the implications of people dying needlessly in my arms.

We never state the hospitals in which this happens in public, as we run the risk of them never accepting any injured anymore we deliver.

And don't try to tell me anything about the tsunami please, i have been there in the first reponse team, one of only about 200 volonteers of these foundations for the whole Pang Nga Province getting rid of the corpses, while the Thai police was busy looting, and the Thai Army was busy catching Burmese survivors and pushing them over the border, regardless of injuries, legal status, or loss of their relatives.

And yes, if possible we use extreme prcaution when removing somebody who is injured, especially when we suspect spinal injury. But there are times when this simply is not possible, especially when a victim is wedged into his car, and has to be cut out.

The quality of training is improving constantly, as the member of the Ruamkatanyu has pointed out here very well.

You might be one of our next customers, you never know. And even if you are a complete prick - we still will do our best to save you.

Sorry to back so late to you, but (no irony here nor offense) I have a life and do not waste my time here that much.

I have to admit you are bold, your statement on the 'dead because no hospital admit him/her' is bold. So I apologise to have kick a bit about that topic, I knew what you are saying but often no one admit it (it was my stance about the tsunami, with people so nice , police acting so efficiently ... und so weiter). Whatever I regret you do not name those hospitals, I suppose people with common sense, or compassion would simply cancel their insurance with hospitals that are finally not hospitals at all, but simply money makers. I do not want to give advice, or state my country is best (if yes I would not decide to live in thailand), but at least if you have an health problem the hospitals cure you first, and then give you the bills ... it's true even if obviously you are a long term tramp.

Also, even if I stay on my words (body snatchers, ghouls ....), I am not pointing my finger on your organisation, nor on any other. Anyway they are better than nothing. I am simply pointing out on something that is missing, something that is necessary, something that is important as freedom. A government have also the duty to take care of the citisens who walk on the street or drive a car, or take the BTS/MRT.

My english is ,alas, not good enought to express some concepts. Let say I am advocating for another 30 bht scheme, obviusly there is not enought money for that. What I am saying is rather than build new shopping malls, it could be better for the safety of the public, the reputation of thailand and to improve the amount of familly tourist to improve the level of the emergency services. It's a politic thinking, but not at the usual level TRT vs Democrat, it's politic with a big P, it's politic thinking on how to improve the daily life of everyone.

So yes it's litterally piss me off (or make me laught depend of what I see) when there is a crash, and I witness some association trying to do what Fire soldiers do in France, and when those associations try to earn both money and respect for what they did/do/will do. I simply think they miss the main point, a human life (whoever own its life, mean rich or beggar) is priceless, and saving a life is most important thing you can do in your lifetime. Putting a price, a value, on that is simply comparable to a sin. Maybe that is simply a cultural difference, maybe it's only a value in western countries (value not even shared by all people there, such as jehovah witnesses for exemple do not share that value), maybe that is simply the reflex : what I will gain if I take risk to save him, whatI will gain if I carry her to the hospital?

So, even if I stand on my attacks/insults/rude words used, be sure it's not directed against PTT, but against all of those who think : Very well, they do good enought so keep up the good work and do not bother. Unsure if my broken english make sense, if not, please read it a second time and maybe it will be easier to understand.