Are You An Alcoholic?

[Neeranam]

So why don't we just agree that some people call the condition a 'disease', others a 'disorder', and get back to the thread topic, diagnostics?

Agreed

The AMA's screening test (part of an excellent 31-page document on assessing for alcohol use disorders, follow-up and treatment), which is also used by the NIAAH, makes no use of either term for example.

Interesting article. I have lots of questions regarding giving medications to people dependant on alcohol, but this is not the thread. I see the recomment going to AA

[sabaijai]

Interesting article. I have lots of questions regarding giving medications to people dependant on alcohol, but this is not the thread. I see the recomment going to AA

We're off topic again (you can't resist plugging AA can you, Neeranam). The manual does not recommend going to AA. The only treatment specifically recommended and described in the body of the manual is brief intervention combined with pharmaceutical therapy. AA is only briefly mentioned in the Referrals section at the end, along with sources for other self-help organisations.

[richard10365]

I'm an alcoholic.

[robitusson]

*Can an alcoholic recover completely?

Yes. Of course.

*What, in your experience, is the most successful means by which a 'real' alcoholic can recover?

Perseverance and depth of resolve to change the destructive habit in question.

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2006-09-30 20:48:39)

*Can an alcoholic recover completely?

Yes. Of course.

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2006-09-30 20:48:39)

*What, in your experience, is the most successful means by which a 'real' alcoholic can recover?

Perseverance and depth of resolve to change the destructive habit in question.

Just your opinion Rob. No amount of will-power and resolve helped me.

I, and ALL the other alcoholics I know would disagree. How many alcoholics do you actually know?

In what capacity are you pretending to be such an expert anyway? Are you an alcoholic? Take the test and find out.

Have you never heard of the saying, "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic"?

AlcoholISm, not alcoholWASm.

Are you really saying that a REAL alkie can quit for a while then drink non-alcoholically again?

This is terrible advice to give an alcoholic.

This is the wrong thread for discussing this anyway, why bring it up?

I'm an alcoholic.

Well so am I - it aint so bad, if I can stop, I'm sure you can too.

[robitusson]

Just your opinion Rob. No amount of will-power and resolve helped me.

So what was the thing that actually prevented you from continuing your drinking habit?

I, and ALL the other alcoholics I know would disagree. How many alcoholics do you actually know?

You can't claim to speak for all the alcoholics you know Neeranam, surely. In answer to your question I know a lot of alcoholics (I'm from Ireland ). Much more importantly than the unrepresentative and random addicts I know however, is looking at a variety of objective research and reading on the matter which bears out what you call my opinion.

In what capacity are you pretending to be such an expert anyway? Are you an alcoholic? Take the test and find out.

I'm not an expert. I'm familiar with the test. According to the test I'm not an alcoholic because I don't drink at all and I haven't in over six years. If I took an "Are you addicted to cigarettes?" test I would be in the clear as well even though I used to smoke 20 a day for years but through perseverance, commitment and taking responsibility for myself I gave that up to.

Have you never heard of the saying, "once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic"?

Yes, I've heard lots of platitudes about alcoholism. Unfortunately I don't have any catchy slogans to back up my point.

AlcoholISm, not alcoholWASm.

Are you really saying that a REAL alkie can quit for a while then drink non-alcoholically again?

This is terrible advice to give an alcoholic.

What's a "real alkie'? Is there a difference between an alcoholic and a real alcoholic? Sounds very open to misinterpretation to me.

why bring it up?

Answering your questions.

[robitusson]

Are you really saying that a REAL alkie can quit for a while then drink non-alcoholically again?

Not necessarily. You asked, can an alcoholic recover completely. The answer is obviously yes. We didn't say what that recovery meant.

What does recovery mean? Maybe that could be another thread.

[robitusson]

The diagnosis from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders is...

“...maladaptive alcohol use with clinically significant impairment as manifested by at least three of the following within any one-year period: tolerance; withdrawal; taken in greater amounts or over longer time course than intended; desire or unsuccessful attempts to cut down or control use; great deal of time spent obtaining, using, or recovering from use; social, occupational, or recreational activities given up or reduced; continued use despite knowledge of physical or psychological sequelae.”

It's still quite vague and does not mention any distinction between somebody who drinks like this life-long and someone who drinks like this and then enjoys 'normal' drinking later.

It gives a one year period as the relevant time frame. So that implies that if someone drinks as an alcoholic, as defined here, that the alcoholic behaviour could end and a person could continue moderate drinking although I seriously doubt this would be recommended by anyone.

Edited October 26, 2006 by robitusson

[jamesiha]

i am glad i could check the list.. sometimes i act like drinking in the morning when i get up but it happens only once in two month (partyyiinng time onlyyy).

Some friend say that i am alcoholic but when i look at that list, i find myself real really safe.. pfffff...

[sabaijai]

Alcohol and Substance Abuse Measurement Instrument Collection

We have compiled a collection of measuring instruments and documentation for faculty and student research papers. Files on the following measures are available for review at our Hartland Plaza office.

Please note that the web links to these instruments seem to change frequently, so if you cannot find them on the NIAAA website, then try searching with a search instrument such as Google.

*Indicates copyright, cost or source issues. Instrument description in file.

Instruments from the National Institutes of Health National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism Website

Adapted Short Michigan Alcoholism

Addiction Admission Scale (AAS)*

Addiction Potential Scale (APS)*

Adolescent Alcohol Involvement Scale*

Adolescent Diagnostic Interview (ADI)*

Adolescent Drinking Index (ADI)*

Alcohol Clinical Index (ACI)*

Alcohol Dependence Scale (ADS)

Alcohol Expectancy Questionnaire (AEQ)

Alcohol Expectancy Adolescent (AEQ-A)

Alcohol Timeline Follow Back (TLFB)*

Alcohol Use Disorders Identification Test

Alcohol Use Inventory (AUI)

Brief MAST

Brown Peterson Recovery Progress*

Co-dependency Inventory (CODI)

Collateral Interview Form (CIF)

College Alcohol Problem Scale (CAPS)

Common Alcohol Logistic Scale (CAL) Current Thoughts Questionnaire

Complaints Checklist

Chemical Dependency Assessment Profile

Circumstances, Motivation, and Readiness*

Clinical Institute Withdrawal Assessment*

Composite International Diagnostic*

Composite Quantity Frequency (QF) Index

Computerized Lifestyle Assessment*

Diagnostic Interview Schedule (DIS-IV)*

Drinking Expectancy Questionnaire (DEQ)

Drinking Problems Index (DPI)

Drinking Refusal Self-Efficacy

Drinking Restraint Scale (DRS)

Drinking Self-Monitoring Log (DSML)

Drug Use Screening Inventory (DUSI)*

Family Tree Questionnaire (FTQ)

Follow-up Drinker Profile (FPD)

Inventory of Drinking Situations (IDS)*

Lifetime Drinking History (LDH)

Million Clinical Multiaxial Inventory II*

Munich Alcoholism Test (MALT)

Negative Alcohol Expectancy Questionnaire

Obsessive Compulsive Drinking Scale

Personal Experience Inventory (PEI)*

Personal Experience Screening*

Problem Situation Inventory (PSI)*

Psychiatric Research Interview for Substance & Mental Disorders (PRISM)

Quantity Frequency Methods (QF)

Readiness to Change Questionnaire (RTCQ)

Recovery Attitude and Treatment Evaluator (RAATE)

Clinical Evaluator (CE) and Questionnaire I (QI)

Restrained Drinking Scale (RDS)

Self-Administered Alcoholism Screening Test (SAAST)

Semi-Structured Assessment for the Genetics of Alcoholism (SSAGA-II)

Severity of Alcohol Dependence Questionnaire (SADQ)

Short Alcohol Dependence Data (SADD)

Situational Confidence Questionnaire (SCQ)*

Steps Questionnaire

Substance Abuse Subtle Screening Inventory (SASSI)

Substance Use Disorders Diagnostic Schedule (SUDDS)*

T-ACE

Teen-Addiction Severity Index (T-ASI)

Veterans Alcoholism Screening Text (VAST)

Yale-Brown Obsessive Compulsive Scale - Modified (Y-BOCS-hd)

Young Alcohol Problems Screening Test (YAAPST)

CASAA

Addiction Severity Index (ASI)

Adolescent Drug Involvement Scale (ADIS)

Alcohol Abstinence Self-Efficacy Scale (AASE)

Alcohol Effects Questionnaire (AQS)

Alcohol Efficacy Scale

Alcohol Impression Scale - <deleted>

Alcohol Use Disorders and Associated Disabilities Interview Schedule (AUDADIS)

Alcohol-Specific Role Play Test

AWARE Questionnaire (Revised form)

Barriers Questionnaire-Alcohol

Barriers Questionnaire-Drugs

Beck Codependence Assessment Scale (BCAS)

Brief Drinker Profile - Interview Booklet

CAGE published in the American Journal of Psychiatry Co-dependency Inventory (CODI)

Collateral Interview Form - Interview booklet

Collateral Interview on Drinking (90-AC)

Collateral Interview on Drinking (90-ACS)

Collateral Interview on Drug Use (90-DC)

College Alcohol Problem Scale (CAPS)

Common Alcohol Logistic Scale (CAL)

Current Thoughts Questionnaire Complaints Checklist

Comprehensive Drinker Profile - Manual Supplement Comprehensive Drinker Profile (CDP)*

Confidential Information Form - Locators

Copyright/Contract Information Measures Collection*

Current Thoughts Questionnaire

Demographics Follow-up - English

Demographics Follow-up - Spanish

Demographic Interview 2.2 - English

Demographic Interview 2.2 - Spanish

Denial Rating Scale Decision Tree

Drinker Inventory of Consequences (DrlnC)

Drinking Assessment Interview - Intake (90-AI)

Drinking Related Internal-External Locus of Control Scale (DRIE)

Drug and Alcohol Problem Quick Screen (DAP)

Drug Efficacy Scale

Drug Use Assessment (Follow-up) (90-DF)

Drug Use Assessment (Intake) (90-DI)

Effectiveness of Coping Behaviors Inventory (BCI)

Family History Interview 2.0

Family History Questionnaire

Follow-up Interview Assessment of Drinking and Related Behaviors (90-AF)

General AA Tools of Recovery (GAATOR 2.1)

How I See My Drug Use

Impaired Control Scales

Inconvenience Review Checklist

Inventory of Drug Consequences (InDUC-2L)

Lifetime Treatment History Interview

Marin Short Scale

McAndrew Alcoholism Scale

Michigan Alcoholism Screening Test (MAST)

Michigan Alcoholism Screening Test for Fathers & Mothers (F-SMAST & M-SMAST)

Oetting and Beauvais Questionnaire

Offender Profile Index

Perceived Benefit of Drinking Scale

Personal Behavior Scale

Personal Control Scale

Personal Feedback Report

Personal Values - Card Sorts

Personal Values Record Form

POSIT (Program Oriented Screening Instrument for Teenagers)

QFV-30 Questionnaire

QFV-90 Questionnaire

Quick Drinking Assessment Interview (90-AQ)

Readiness Ruler

Reasons for Drinking Questionnaire

Relationship Happiness Scale

Religious Practices and Beliefs (RPB) English

Religious Practices and Beliefs (RPB) Spanish

Risk Assessment Rutgers Alcohol Problem Index (RAPI)

SADD (Short-Form Alcohol Dependence Data Questionnaire

SADQ

Self-Evaluation of Drug Use

Short Inventory of Problems (SIP)

SOCRATES Scoring Form (Version 7.0)

Personal Drinking Questionnaire - English (SOCRATES 7A)

Personal Drinking Questionnaire - English (SOCRATES 7AS)

Personal Drinking Questionnaire - English (SOCRATES 7A-SO-M)

Personal Drug Questionnaire (SOCRATES 7D)

Personal Drug Questionnaire (SOCRATES 7D-SO-F)

SOCRATES - Scoring Form (Version 8.0)

SOCRATES Profile Sheet (19-item Version 8A)

Personal Drinking Questionnaire - English (SOCRATES 8A)

Personal Drug Use Questionnaire (SOCRATES 8D)

SOCRATES - Scoring Sheet (8D)

Stages of Change Readiness and Treatment Eagerness Scale (SOCRATES)

Subject Telephone Assessment of Drinking and Related Behaviors (90-AT)

Subjective Experience Questionnaire (SEQ-2A) - Alcohol

Subjective Experience Questionnaire (SEQ-2D) - Drug

Substance Abuse Screening Instrument

Temptation and Restraint Inventory

Title Cards (Drinker Types, etc.)

Treatment Services Review

TWEAK

Twelve-Step Participation Questionnaire (TSPQ-21)

Understanding of Alcoholism Scale

Inventory of Rhode Island Change Assessment (URICA)

What I Got From Treatment

What I Want From Treatment

Your Work Place (YWP)

Source: National Institute of Health, National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, from the Addiction Research Institute, University of Texas

[jumnien]

I completed a 1.5 year program at UC Berkeley in "Alcohol and Drug Dependency Studies" in 1997. There is a wide variety of testing available to evaluate suspected alcoholics. Often they lie on written tests. One of the most reliable tests we used in the intake procedure at the treatment center I worked in was called the SNIFF test. The smell of the vomit on the shoes, the "don't light a match anywhere near him" odor was not to be overlooked. Seriously, often it's better to use one's intuition rather than one's penchant for scientific testing in these matters.

One of my favorite definitions of an alcoholic was "anyone who quits drinking and their life gets phenomenally better". That doesn't happen with average drinkers...

[sabaijai]

One of my favorite definitions of an alcoholic was "anyone who quits drinking and their life gets phenomenally better". That doesn't happen with average drinkers...

Good one.

[Juzrelax]

13. Do you turn to or seek an inferior environment when drinking?

What is ment by this?

Define an 'inferior' environment.

This is a matter of choice. Some people like fancy artsy fartsy bars and others prefer the shitty old pub down the road.

If you were to take me to some fancy bar I would not like it, so to me thats an 'inferior' environment. Many people would not like the shitty old pub that I go to, so to them, that's an 'inferior' environment.

Also, who has honestly never called in sick because they have had a big night out on the booze, or felt remorse because thay did something stupid when drunk.

There's 3 questions the majority of people would say yes too.

Does that mean most people are alcholics?

For the sake of the thread I would class myself as a big binge drinker, but on the same note I can choose to have 2 or 3 beers and go home. I can also be in the presence of others that are having a big session and choose not too.

If I ever hit the stage where I don't like drinking but continue to do it, I will regard that as a big problem. Untill then, I love a beer, cheers!

Edited May 26, 2007 by Juzrelax

[Juzrelax]

As explained by Cliff Clavin,of Cheers.

One afternoon at Cheers, Cliff Clavin was explaining the Buffalo Theory to his buddy Norm.

Here's how it went:

"Well ya see, Norm, it's like this... A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers."

[ding]

13. Do you turn to or seek an inferior environment when drinking?

What is ment by this?

IMHO

Lots of alcoholics suspect we have a problem,. We then began to drink with people who had a more severe drinking problem/pattern so we didn't appear to have a problem, comparatively. This kept the medicine flowing in spite of the blatant problems popping up.

Alcohol gave me wings before it took away the sky. Then I told myself skydiving was just another extreme sport.

For the sake of the thread I would class myself as a big binge drinker, but on the same note I can choose to have 2 or 3 beers and go home. I can also be in the presence of others that are having a big session and choose not too.

If I ever hit the stage where I don't like drinking but continue to do it, I will regard that as a big problem. Untill then, I love a beer, cheers!

If I drank like that I would still be drinking. Doesn't sound like you're alcoholic to me. And the willingness to define your style as a 'binge' drinker eliminates the 'denial' prerequisite - in my view. Denial and/or minimization of a drinking pattern is pretty much uniform.

Anyhow, I just had to get myself enough pain. We all have different tollerance levels for living-pain. I couldn't stand it anymore. That was 22 years ago and I haven't had a craving since. Life is phenomenally better, true and true.

[colino]

Not yet but only been here 20 months

[saraburioz]

Answered 8,doyou think I need AA?

[Neeranam]

Answered 8,doyou think I need AA?

It certainly wouldn't do any harm. Give it a go, if you want to quit. Do you want to quit?

www.aathaland.org

[Mobi]

Answered 8,doyou think I need AA?

Although I haven't been personally, there's plenty of AA meetings in Thailand, and certainly in the major areas like BKK, Chiang Mai, Pattaya, Phuket etc.

As Neeranam has said, it's worth a try, as you clearly have a problem.

There are other solutions though as I am now dry for over 4 months, and still going strong after a lifetime of alcohol.

Good luck

[stiggy]

sorry not impressed with the actions of AA in this part of the world..

[Neeranam]

sorry not impressed with the actions of AA in this part of the world..

Really, why?

I have experienced many people with very serious alcohol problems change their lives beyond their wildest dreams, both Thai and farang.

I got sober through AA 7 years ago in Thailand when nothing else had worked, and believe me I tried almost everything.

[Mobi]

sorry not impressed with the actions of AA in this part of the world..

Really, why?

I have experienced many people with very serious alcohol problems change their lives beyond their wildest dreams, both Thai and farang.

I got sober through AA 7 years ago in Thailand when nothing else had worked, and believe me I tried almost everything.

As I said, I've never been to a meeting, but speaking to those who have, I understand that every group is different - some good, some not so good, even within Thailand, so how anyone can make a statement about 'actions of AA in this part of the world' does sound a bit strange, and maybe an unfair generalisation to me.

[PhilHarries]

This old thread just popped up in the new posts section so I gave it a go.

To answer this question ask yourself the following questions and answer them as honesty as you can.

1. Is drinking making your home life unhappy? No.

2. Does your drinking make you careless of your family’s welfare? No.

3. Do you drink because you are shy with other people? No.

4. Is drinking affecting your reputation? It did once, but not any more. Funny thing was the people who were slagging me off drank as much or more than I did but they had an alternative agenda that I was a block to. To the question, currently no.

5. Do you drink to escape from worries or trouble? No.

6. Do you drink alone? Yes, in that I'll often go out alone, thereafter I may or may not end up in converstaions with colleagues or people I meet. I do not sit alone in my apartment drinking except for maybe one when I get in after work but that is very rare. To the question I'd have to say yes sometimes.

7. Have you lost time from work due to drinking? A ways back in my late teens/early twenties but certainly not in the last thirty years. Show me someone who drank during their youth and claim never to have thrown a sickie and I'll show you a liar. To the question, yes.

8. Has your ambition decreased since drinking? No, my work ambition has decreased now I don't need to bust a gut to get on, I'm happy coasting towards retirement. My personal ambition is unchanged. To the question, no.

9. Has your efficiency decreased since drinking? No.

10. Is drinking jeopardising your job or business? Not at present. To the question, no.

11. Have you ever felt remorse after drinking? I wouldn't say remorse, a minor regret at having that "one for the road" but not remorse. To the question, no.

12. Are you in financial difficulties as a result of drinking? If I was in financial difficulties due to my drinking I most certainly would have a drink problem and wouldn't need a bluddy quiz to tell me that. To the question, no.

13. Do you turn to or seek an inferior environment when drinking? Don't understand this one. I associate with all classes of people and frequent all classes of places depending on the current mood. To the hazy question, I'll drink with who I wish, where I wish without any class bias so I'll take that as a no as I don't conciously seek only the lower places where the poorer people go.

14. Do you crave a drink at a definite time daily? I never "crave" a drink, on a hot day I often feel I could murder a beer but then most likely will have water instead. Should never drink alcohol when you are thirsty so I down a glass of water and then get a beer. To the question, no.

15. Does drinking cause you to have difficulty in sleeping? No.

16. Do you want a drink the next morning? Sometimes yes, I don't drink according to the clock. If I'm not at or going to work and I want a beer I'll grab one. To the question, yes.

17. Do you drink to build up your self-confidence? No.

18. Have you ever had a complete loss of memory as a result of drinking? Wouldn't say a complete loss but sometimes the memory is a bit hazy. To the question, no

19. Has your doctor ever treated you for drinking? There was a period where I was under medication for a drink related problem but the tablets had an adverse reaction so I threw them away and got over the problem myself. To the question, yes.

20. Have you ever been in hospital or prison because of drinking? No.

It's a crap bunch of "have you ever" questions and I'd be very suspicious of anyone who drinks or used to drink that says no to them all. Basically a reformed alcoholic still has a drink problem because he cannot say no to those questions. This is the way groups like AA prey on insecure people.

So by my reckoning I have a score of 4 out of 20. Do I have a drink problem? I would say no. I enjoy life and I enjoy having a drink, 99% of the time beer, with colleagues and sometimes alone in my thoughts. I am certainly not going to start beating myself up over it.

[bruceboy]

I enjoy my life, and enjoy a drink, as well.

But I scored 8 out of 20, so is this a problem?

I have a rest for a month every year to give my system a year.

[PattayaAddict]

Most definitly NOT an alcoholic

[robitusson]

Really, why?

I have experienced many people with very serious alcohol problems change their lives beyond their wildest dreams,

Straight from the literature.

This is the way groups like AA prey on insecure people.

One of the many. Edited July 20, 2007 by robitusson

[Mobi]

Really, why?

I have experienced many people with very serious alcohol problems change their lives beyond their wildest dreams,

Straight from the literature.

This is the way groups like AA prey on insecure people.

One of the many.

He's back!!

[robitusson]

He's back!!

Don't mention it! I took time out of my busy schedule to be here just for you. I knew the lid on the AA evangelising couldn't stay closed for long.

Remember folks, just keep staying away.

[Neeranam]

Really, why?

I have experienced many people with very serious alcohol problems change their lives beyond their wildest dreams,

Straight from the literature.

This is the way groups like AA prey on insecure people.

One of the many.

I suggest you get rid of your resentment - it is not healthy at all.

Coming onto a thread about alcoholism and telling people to stay away is very sick.

[robitusson]

I suggest you get rid of your resentment - it is not healthy at all.

I suggest you don't promote pseudo-science and pseudo-religion to people who are vunerable. It's not healthy at all.

Coming onto a thread about alcoholism and telling people to stay away is very sick.

It isn't when you're telling them to stay away from programmes that don't work and spread ignorance.

Wanna get into it again? Let me know.

By the way, I'm not the one who describes themself as sick here.

Here's some other useful slogans:

The only 12 steps I'm interested in are the ones leading to the door.

Zero meetings in ninety days.

Call your sponsor... on his sh1t.

Keep staying away... it gets better!

Edited July 28, 2007 by robitusson