Retirement Extensions Phuket - Big Changes Since Last Year

[paz]

Some years ago (I forget the details) many people in Phuket were found to have fake stamps in their passports. That led to court appearances, fines and deportation.

Those who attempt to subvert the system are always walking on very thin ice.

Yes and it still happens occasionally. But the "no status" retirement extensions are much more frequent. They are the reason why no more tourist visa conversions are done at regional offices. Unlike a fake stamps case, there is no foreigner to prosecute - the stamps are genuine. No news of anyone being prosecuted - just the conversion authority has been removed.

[merijn]

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What's your problem with his comment then? It seems to me that he is merely pointing out the risks which suckers like the bloke down properperson's way run when parting with 12,000 THB to some spiv "agent" who might well then take his passport around to a mate of theirs who is an expert in forgery instead of to the local immigration office for the extension stamp to be affixed.

No, that's not what happened, at least in my opinion. Rather than a corrupt officer was bribed to grant an extension without the financials needed. In this case the stamps are genuine and the extension is valid in immigration database.

Some years ago (I forget the details) many people in Phuket were found to have fake stamps in their passports. That led to court appearances, fines and deportation.

Those who attempt to subvert the system are always walking on very thin ice.

What you refer to where not fake immigration stamps.

One immigration officer (from Patong beach Immigration Office) would collect passports and hand them over to a buddy at the airport who would stamp the passport out and back into the country.

This happened a long time ago and when found out the affected people had to go to Bangkok immigration HQ to receive their passports back with a slap on the wrist.

I did not hear of fake immigration extension stamps issued in Phuket immigration. ( Koh Samui is a different story )

[exppenang]

Sorry but can someone explain exactly what a 'no-status' retirement visa is? From what I read it is someone over 50 who doesn't have or can't prove income or 800k in the bank, or maybe even now could be someone who can't provide residence docs.

I have a similar story. Friend who works in oil/gas spends one month overseas alternating with one month here. He used to enter every time on visa exempt. Under 'new regulations', he was informed this was his last entry on visa exempt. Next time he would be denied entry unless he had a visa. A lawyer in BKK took his 50k, and all docs (including financials) were either faked or visa was issued anyway without docs. I assume this is a 'no-status' visa.

The major drawback of paper-based system they use is that going back to check for fraud, after the fact, becomes almost impossible. I'm sure those who profit from these fake visas know and understand this.

Next time you visit Phuket Immigration, watch closely the flow of passports. Many people carrying stacks of passports (agents/fixers?) do cut queue through the front door. If you watch it is easy to see. Also, stacks of passports arrive from the side/back doors too, delivered by people in plain clothes. I'm not saying all of these instances are untoward activity.

I believe that a strict ONE PERSON/ONE PASSPORT rule is necessary.

[2fishin2]

Sorry but can someone explain exactly what a 'no-status' retirement visa is? From what I read it is someone over 50 who doesn't have or can't prove income or 800k in the bank, or maybe even now could be someone who can't provide residence docs.

I have a similar story. Friend who works in oil/gas spends one month overseas alternating with one month here. He used to enter every time on visa exempt. Under 'new regulations', he was informed this was his last entry on visa exempt. Next time he would be denied entry unless he had a visa. A lawyer in BKK took his 50k, and all docs (including financials) were either faked or visa was issued anyway without docs. I assume this is a 'no-status' visa.

The major drawback of paper-based system they use is that going back to check for fraud, after the fact, becomes almost impossible. I'm sure those who profit from these fake visas know and understand this.

Next time you visit Phuket Immigration, watch closely the flow of passports. Many people carrying stacks of passports (agents/fixers?) do cut queue through the front door. If you watch it is easy to see. Also, stacks of passports arrive from the side/back doors too, delivered by people in plain clothes. I'm not saying all of these instances are untoward activity.

I believe that a strict ONE PERSON/ONE PASSPORT rule is necessary.

And you think the place is overcrowded now? Just remember your "one person one passport" idea would mean MORE PEOPLE come to the office everyday. The office normally assigns only one agent to those people and passports and the rest for the minions.

I dont understand some of you chowderheads?? You go to immigration file paperwork, pay fees and get same day service. Try that in western civilized countries....it will get you nothing.

Suck it up.

[merijn]

Sorry but can someone explain exactly what a 'no-status' retirement visa is? From what I read it is someone over 50 who doesn't have or can't prove income or 800k in the bank, or maybe even now could be someone who can't provide residence docs.

I have a similar story. Friend who works in oil/gas spends one month overseas alternating with one month here. He used to enter every time on visa exempt. Under 'new regulations', he was informed this was his last entry on visa exempt. Next time he would be denied entry unless he had a visa. A lawyer in BKK took his 50k, and all docs (including financials) were either faked or visa was issued anyway without docs. I assume this is a 'no-status' visa.

The major drawback of paper-based system they use is that going back to check for fraud, after the fact, becomes almost impossible. I'm sure those who profit from these fake visas know and understand this.

Next time you visit Phuket Immigration, watch closely the flow of passports. Many people carrying stacks of passports (agents/fixers?) do cut queue through the front door. If you watch it is easy to see. Also, stacks of passports arrive from the side/back doors too, delivered by people in plain clothes. I'm not saying all of these instances are untoward activity.

I believe that a strict ONE PERSON/ONE PASSPORT rule is necessary.

Thailand immigration does not issue retirement visa's, only extensions based on retirement and i never heard something like a retirement no-status extension.

To get a extension based on retirement you will need fulfill the financial requirements.

All visa agents are plain clothes (with or without name badge) and why not? they are not officers so something like that.

Most agents also follow the requirements and there is nothing illegal about using a visa agent.

It is a different story when visa agents advertises with visa extensions without the financial requirements, this is illegal and when using those agencies you can have problems in the future.

I'm almost 100% sure that Phuket immigration does not provide illegal extensions (to much oversight from Bangkok) but i would not be surprised that some officers are more flexible then others regarding the financial requirements. (which is allowed as they have curtain discretion on the papers they accept)

About the oil workers on a monthly rotation, It is confirmed several times that this is not a problem (arriving on VOA) but experience shows that some borders (like Phuket airport) are doing difficult.

As long they travel via Suvarnabhumi airport there should be not a problem.

[exppenang]

Dear Mr. 2fishin2,

Haha love the chowderhead remark! Fits your moniker perfectly <2fishin2>.

Yes you are right - if 'agents' could not bring stacks of passports in (one person/one passport) there would be even more people at Phuket Immigration.

Real problem is that these agents cut the queue. Ask 100 legitimate people on this forum if these queue jumpers are a problem and see what they have to say.

Perhaps you are really a fixer who is 'trolling' here? blahahahaha

[2fishin2]

Dear Mr. 2fishin2,

Haha love the chowderhead remark! Fits your moniker perfectly <2fishin2>.

Yes you are right - if 'agents' could not bring stacks of passports in (one person/one passport) there would be even more people at Phuket Immigration.

Real problem is that these agents cut the queue. Ask 100 legitimate people on this forum if these queue jumpers are a problem and see what they have to say.

Perhaps you are really a fixer who is 'trolling' here? blahahahaha

Actually chowderhead is a term of endearment to me. There are many other more demeaning adjectives. LOL

Actually the "legit" agents help everybody. Would you rather have another 100 people clutter up an already admitted bad system or a handful of people bringing in 100 passports and documents already vetted for the proper paperwork. Think about how long people wait outside now and how long. Add those other one person one passport requirements and the system could not handle it. Then people would really be upset. Its not perfect but, it works. And for the record when I was there, I didnt see anybody "jumping" if I had, I would have said something along with many other people.

[Old Croc]

I'd be willing to wager on several things about agents.

1. Their paperwork doesn't have to meet the same levels of evidence and scrutiny as that of an individual.

2. A proportion of the agents large fee is passed on to help expedite the processing.

[exppenang]

Yes Old Croc agreed. Any way you slice it these 'agents' are cutting queue - whether by pushing/shoving or being let in the back door with stacks of passports. I don't buy 2fishin2 story that the agents are somehow helping the rest of us.

Not to mention that some of these transactions may require the applicant to appear in person.

If one wants to use a 'legitimate' agent (if legitimate agents actually exist), then let them wait in queue like the rest of us. ONE agent ONE passport. Any other scheme is clearly unfair and discriminatory to those who do it themselves.

[phuketrichard]

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My wife and I need to get our ninth retirement extension before March 20. I am going to BKK next week--and will be sure to visit the TV lounge--for our biggest retirement extension hassle, the US embassy acknowlegement of our income. I'll be sure to let you know how it works out.

Why is the USA Embassy a problem ?

All you do is "swear" an affidavit of income which you hope that the Immigration officer will not ask you to prove.

Well, it is the "biggest" hassle in the retirement extension dance because I have to go to Bangkok, and that is a two day minimum. So, to assuage that hassle, I have to go bar-hopping and meet up with old friends. I could not do the social thing in a one-day round trip flight. Then the embassy has the audacity of requiring an appointment, which can only be made in the morning--you must remember, I just partied all night and am not in favor of getting up for a morning appointment. Yeah, I know you can go in and take chances in the afternoon, but that interferes with breakfast, the afternoon quaffing, and the flight back. So, either way, it is a hassle.

Going to immigration is easy and takes little time, maybe 30 minutes. As I said, I live where there are few farangs, never a long wait at immigration, and all we need are the income statement and the Thai translation of our marriage certificate, which is already done. The interns fill out our forms and make the copies, as we talk to the immigration officers; then we sign the forms and pay the B3,800 (B1,900each); done deal.

you do not need go to bangkok

US embassy has an outreach program 4x /year an will do the income notarized letter,

since the letter is good for 6 months>>>

next visit is April 24th at the Le merdian.

seems u could have gone to the visit last Jan but.....

[smotherb]

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My wife and I need to get our ninth retirement extension before March 20. I am going to BKK next week--and will be sure to visit the TV lounge--for our biggest retirement extension hassle, the US embassy acknowlegement of our income. I'll be sure to let you know how it works out.

Why is the USA Embassy a problem ?

All you do is "swear" an affidavit of income which you hope that the Immigration officer will not ask you to prove.

Well, it is the "biggest" hassle in the retirement extension dance because I have to go to Bangkok, and that is a two day minimum. So, to assuage that hassle, I have to go bar-hopping and meet up with old friends. I could not do the social thing in a one-day round trip flight. Then the embassy has the audacity of requiring an appointment, which can only be made in the morning--you must remember, I just partied all night and am not in favor of getting up for a morning appointment. Yeah, I know you can go in and take chances in the afternoon, but that interferes with breakfast, the afternoon quaffing, and the flight back. So, either way, it is a hassle.

Going to immigration is easy and takes little time, maybe 30 minutes. As I said, I live where there are few farangs, never a long wait at immigration, and all we need are the income statement and the Thai translation of our marriage certificate, which is already done. The interns fill out our forms and make the copies, as we talk to the immigration officers; then we sign the forms and pay the B3,800 (B1,900each); done deal.

you do not need go to bangkok

US embassy has an outreach program 4x /year an will do the income notarized letter,

since the letter is good for 6 months>>>

next visit is April 24th at the Le merdian.

seems u could have gone to the visit last Jan but.....

I am not in Phuket, and the timing is not the issue, the hassle would be the same no matter when or where I went.

[phuketrichard]

This is a phuket thread;

the outreach is all over Thailand, next time plan better as its no hassle at all;

no appt necessary

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consular_outreach.html

[pmarlin]

Back to the OP, if landlords would do their part and submit TM30's to immigration as required this asking for house books, owners ID cards probably wouldn't be needed.

[Maestro]

Bloke down our way went to one of them visa shops doing "non status" retirement visas....

Dropped passport and 12,000b off at 10am and collected passport with new retirement extension and receipt for the 1900 b fee, at 3pm.....

Jobs a good 'un, he reccons....

The "non status" retirement visa is still missing in my album of stamps of visas and extensions and I'd be grateful if somebody could post a copy.

[2fishin2]

I'd be willing to wager on several things about agents.

1. Their paperwork doesn't have to meet the same levels of evidence and scrutiny as that of an individual.

2. A proportion of the agents large fee is passed on to help expedite the processing.

As a user of one of the most recognized services last year, I can say you are incorrect. I actually had to provide more to the agent than to immigration when I went last month. Thats a fact.

[nzexpat]

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I'd be willing to wager on several things about agents.

1. Their paperwork doesn't have to meet the same levels of evidence and scrutiny as that of an individual.

2. A proportion of the agents large fee is passed on to help expedite the processing.

As a user of one of the most recognized services last year, I can say you are incorrect. I actually had to provide more to the agent than to immigration when I went last month. Thats a fact.

Just curious.

How were the financial requirements " proved" ?

[smotherb]

I suspect that "biggest hassle" refers to the length and hardship of his trip to Bankgok and back, some of which he hopes to assuage a little with his visit to the Thaivisa lounge, second building on the left as he enters Sukhumvit Soi 7. I gorged myself on chicken wings last time I was there, and I saw many other tempting items on their menue. 10% discount for Thisvisa members except for already discounted items during happy hours. Identify yourself by showing yourself logged into your Thaivisa account; free wifi available.

I am impressed, not only were you right, but we used the same word, "assuage."

Well, a partial update on the income statement process hassle. Just got back from BKK, even more of a hassle than I expected. I opted for an earlier appointment because I knew I would be out until late--or early as the case might be. The intent, of course, was to get up go to the embassy do the paperwork and spend the B1650, then return for an hour or two of sleep before going out for a few pre-departue brews, late brunch and taxi to the swamp. Well, I was at the embassy over one and a half hours, the traffic was so bad it took an hour to get back to hotel just short of check-out time--even a later appointment would have meant I would have to leave my bag somewhere because you cannot check a bag at the embassy. A few beers and a meal still came about. I'll go to immigration sometime before March 20 with income statement in hand.

I did stop into Thaivisa lounge for a couple of JD sodas. It was a nice open air pub with two pool tables and some nice wicker chairs and tables. There were only two other farangs and three or four Thai girls, who were not employees, hanging around. I guess freelancers are a Soi 7 trademark. None of them were TV members; I asked. The bar was a bit small, but as I said the place was nicely appointed. I asked for a menu and was surprised at the Thai food variety, but a bit disappointed at the farang food selection--it seemed to reflect the traditional Thai version of farang foods I see in Hatyai. One thing of interest, it appears the grammar and spelling police are prohibited there too--or maybe they just had TV members edit the menu. I was particularly amused to see Beeb Bergers.

I asked for my Thaivisa member discount and was told, I could not get it, since it was happy hour. So, Thaivisa members pay the same as any yayhoo off the street at happy hour. I guess there may be some logic to that, but apparently, since no members were there, it is amiss with TV members.

[smotherb]

Well, as I promised, I did my retirement extension run to immigration today. I got my income statement from the US Embassy last week. Well, now I know how the rest of you feel. For the first time in eight years, since the initial hassles learning the retirement dance, I got a hassle for the extension.

It started up front. The normally friendly immigration officer on the front desk asked us to make the copies and fill out the forms instead of telling his intern to do it for us. Then we took the forms to the window and our normal extension immigration officer no longer handled them, it went to a higher ranking officer. After about a 30 minute wait, we were told the rules had changed.

They brought out the new commander, a woman colonel—crown and two pips—she explained that we needed a bank account, something to do with an MOA, memorandum of agreement, with the US about money laundering, or at least that was what I understood from her limited English and my limited Thai. They did not seem to care about the income statement, just wanted a copy of our Thai bank account.

I tried to explain I do not use a Thai bank for my expenses in Thailand, I use the ATM and my debit card. Cannot, she said, must use Thai bank. I asked if she meant I needed to have the money transferred monthly into the Thai bank, she said yes, I could. So, I asked again, must I transfer money every month. No, she said, just have a Thai bank so they can make a copy and append to the retirement forms. Okay, never before did they ask for a bank account.

So, we went back home to get our bank book and came back. Okay, now all was good, just go make copies of the bank book. With copies of the bank book in hand, she says, we can only process my retirement extension because my wife’s paperwork needs a copy of my retirement extension so she can piggyback on mine; that never happened before either.

Okay, we wait for them to process my retirement extension, when completed, go make copies of my retirement extension stamp to append to my wife’s paperwork. Okay, now it seems we need more than just copies of the retirement extension, now need copy of my ID page too. Okay, now we wait for them to process my wife’s piggyback retirement extension.

All in, over two and a half hours in immigration plus and an r/t back home for the bank book. So, over three hours clock time to get what has taken less than 30 minutes seven times before. Still not sure, so I asked again, do I have to have money transferred each month—at least the $2000 or so dollars, whatever the B65k amounts to—no, just have bank account was the reply.

I guess we will see next year, but no worries, on the ride back home to get the bank book, I made my escape plans. We could be out of here in two days without looking back—I’ve always liked being mobile. So, if they hassle again next year, I have a plan A and a plan B. Plan A, just transfer $25k to my bank account, or Plan B, execute escape plan.