Belgian man arrested for working as tour guide

[luk AJ]

According to Wikipedia -- the primary foreign language spoken in The Netherlands is English --- with a fluency rate of 90%...

Another source Dutch is a spoken language in the Netherlands as well as an official language of the country. However, most of Dutch people speak at least one foreign language, mostly English that is taught at school during the basic education. Many Dutch people speak also German, which is in many aspects similar to Dutch language and some of them speak French. http://www.amsterdam.info/netherlands/population/

ha ha ha they may be an intelligent race but their German is with a lot of hair and 5 Dutchmen speak French. So torpedo your source.

I have never had any difficulty in numerous trips to the Netherlands. I have spoken English with grannies and school children.

Perhaps you should reread the citation. English is the most common second language, followed by German and then French. That makes complete sense when you add education and geography.

yes of course you are right, how could I possibly be so wrong... I am just a stupid Belgian guy who lived half of his life a few km from the Dutch border. Mea Culpa Mea Culpa

[luk AJ]

According to Wikipedia -- the primary foreign language spoken in The Netherlands is English --- with a fluency rate of 90%...

Another source Dutch is a spoken language in the Netherlands as well as an official language of the country. However, most of Dutch people speak at least one foreign language, mostly English that is taught at school during the basic education. Many Dutch people speak also German, which is in many aspects similar to Dutch language and some of them speak French. http://www.amsterdam.info/netherlands/population/

ha ha ha they may be an intelligent race but their German is with a lot of hair and 5 Dutchmen speak French. So torpedo your source.

I have never had any difficulty in numerous trips to the Netherlands. I have spoken English with grannies and school children.

Perhaps you should reread the citation. English is the most common second language, followed by German and then French. That makes complete sense when you add education and geography.

yes of course you are right, how could I possibly be so wrong... I am just a stupid Belgian guy who lived half of his life a few km from the Dutch border. Mea Culpa Mea Culpa

i just wonder if your claims would be true, why there was a Dutch guy translating for a Thai Guide??? Oops this brings us back to page one...

[minikev]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The Dutch are very smart people. Most speak some English and some speak it very well. It is possible the Belgian was able to communicate to the Dutch tourists in their own language better than the Thai guides can speak English. However, he broke the law and the law won.

Wrong place, wrong time. Remember where you are!

English is the second language for the Dutch , they speak excellent English , you are correct, he broke the law.

He did break the law you are correct. However the law should be looked at some time this century. If he was to apply for a work permit he would have to be employed at a ratio of four Thais to one foreigner in order to be accepted. He was giving a service that improves tourism in Thailand. Even if there were a Thai tour guide that could speak Dutch I don't think they could be fluent and make the tourists comfortable in the way he will have done. Tourist guide was until recently one of the occupations forbidden for foreigners, maybe still is. These laws are old and don't help Thailand pull itself into the modern world.

Perhaps if there were Chinese tour guides talking to the Chinese about Thai culture the Chinese tourists would stop kicking bells and use the toilets in the correct manner.

I'm sure this man knew he shouldn't be working as a tour guide on a tourist visa and therefore deserves to be repremanded but lets not throw him to the wolves eh!

[jabis]

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The Dutch are very smart people. Most speak some English and some speak it very well. It is possible the Belgian was able to communicate to the Dutch tourists in their own language better than the Thai guides can speak English. However, he broke the law and the law won.

Wrong place, wrong time. Remember where you are!

English is the second language for the Dutch , they speak excellent English , you are correct, he broke the law.

He did break the law you are correct. However the law should be looked at some time this century. If he was to apply for a work permit he would have to be employed at a ratio of four Thais to one foreigner in order to be accepted. He was giving a service that improves tourism in Thailand. Even if there were a Thai tour guide that could speak Dutch I don't think they could be fluent and make the tourists comfortable in the way he will have done. Tourist guide was until recently one of the occupations forbidden for foreigners, maybe still is. These laws are old and don't help Thailand pull itself into the modern world.

Perhaps if there were Chinese tour guides talking to the Chinese about Thai culture the Chinese tourists would stop kicking bells and use the toilets in the correct manner.

I'm sure this man knew he shouldn't be working as a tour guide on a tourist visa and therefore deserves to be repremanded but lets not throw him to the wolves eh!

Well - if it's a good business, then throw in an application to BOI (Board of Investment), and rid yourself of the 1:4 rule

No law is good without enforcement - and by the book you will be judged - I'd reckon he pays a small fine and is deported, and that's that - would not call it throwing to the wolves

[PlastikbinLina]

Another 'innocent' person arrested?

You asked about it twice, I'll answer you once.

Yes, in my eyes he is innocent.

I don't give a damn about work permits and requirements.

He was offering a service that the Thais could not offer as none of them could probably speak Dutch.

Many of you will condemn me for what I said but this is my opinion.

He didn't commit a crime he just wanted to make a living.

He who is without sin can cast the first stone now....................

"He was offering a service that the Thais could not offer as none of them could probably speak Dutch." I beg to differ.although In this case you may be right but I have many Dutch friends over the years and all of them had/have a very good command of English. No he is not innocent as he is about to find out.

[WorldTravellerMUC]

We all could argue about the case and if this "small" incident of a foreigner leading a tourist group is worth being detained by the police or not, however then this is Thailand and as stated many times in the discussions the country tries to be as protective as it can be in certain areas to protect the job of their citicens.

This we all know who have gone through the exercise to get a work permit.

So if you break the law then you have to face the consequences and this is what did happen to the poor fellow. Also he was quite naive to give the answer to the police that ge gave. Maybe he should have been coached before to answer: That he is here traveling with a group of old friends and move on....

[Mr Somtam]

Ah, the days of banter in the workplace between the belgies and the cloggies. All good fun.

Limburg love.

Limburgers, Belgians trying to speak German!

[robblok]

According to Wikipedia -- the primary foreign language spoken in The Netherlands is English --- with a fluency rate of 90%...

Another source Dutch is a spoken language in the Netherlands as well as an official language of the country. However, most of Dutch people speak at least one foreign language, mostly English that is taught at school during the basic education. Many Dutch people speak also German, which is in many aspects similar to Dutch language and some of them speak French. http://www.amsterdam.info/netherlands/population/

ha ha ha they may be an intelligent race but their German is with a lot of hair and 5 Dutchmen speak French. So torpedo your source.

I agree about the French but not about the German. In general we are still far smarter as the Belgians. Not that that is hard of course.

The Belgians did not even have a government for a long time. Could not agree always fighting among themselves.

[mango66]

Another 'innocent' person arrested?

You asked about it twice, I'll answer you once.

Yes, in my eyes he is innocent.

I don't give a damn about work permits and requirements.

He was offering a service that the Thais could not offer as none of them could probably speak Dutch.

Many of you will condemn me for what I said but this is my opinion.

He didn't commit a crime he just wanted to make a living.

He who is without sin can cast the first stone now....................

Dutch people are not Chinese or russions !!

They know english quiet well,

so no problem would be with a guide who speakes english !!

I have spoiken not so long ago with a Thai, he was arrested and deported from Dutch as he worked without permit in Dutch !!

So I think same rights in both countries !!

But no thai would claim innocent in a forum when he know he did brake the law !!

[Thunderbirds20]

I see Russians working as tour guides and handing out brochures on the street every day in Pattaya. I've never seen any other nationalities doing such work but Thais before! I have no idea why the Russians can do this and no one seems to bother them. I'd be in jail like the Belgian guy in a heartbeat if I did that!

[VIPinthailand]

did Jesus had a work permit when he was preaching all over the world?

[djjamie]

did Jesus had a work permit when he was preaching all over the world?

??????

[ChiangmaiRob]

Another 'innocent' person arrested?

You asked about it twice, I'll answer you once.

Yes, in my eyes he is innocent.

I don't give a damn about work permits and requirements.

He was offering a service that the Thais could not offer as none of them could probably speak Dutch.

Many of you will condemn me for what I said but this is my opinion.

He didn't commit a crime he just wanted to make a living.

He who is without sin can cast the first stone now....................

What a moronic rant! Just have a read of what you wrote and if you have any sense you will admit it's a pretty damned stupid post.

1. It doesn't matter how things are "in your eyes", visa rules are not set based on your point of view.

2. It doesn't matter what you do and don't give a damn about, you can only work in Thailand with a valid Work Permit, that's the law!

3. As has already been posted, English is spoken widely by the Dutch, it is their second language.

4. YES, he did commit a crime, he was working on a tourist visa, which is against Thai law.

5. It doesn't matter if we are "without sin" or not, that's not a valid argument in Thai immigration departments eyes.

And lastly, yes, Thai law is an ass and the authorities who are supposed to enforce the law do so as and how they choose with whoever they choose but that doesn't matter, because working in Thailand on any type of tourist visa is against the law and this guy chose to roll the dice, take the chance and defy the law .... and he lost!

You can get away with speeding or driving without a crash helmet or valid licence because you simply pay the 400 baht fine and carry on your way, but If you're living here, you should at least have a valid visa for what you are actually doing because if you don't, that's the sort of stuff that will get you kicked out of the country, with a big red NRB stamp in your passport!

[VIPinthailand]

did Jesus had a work permit when he was preaching all over the world?

??????

work permit, passport, tax, visa, is part of the past. we live in a global world today where race, religion, are all mixed.

when I read a guy who is arrested because he got a little job as a translator , that s make me laugh.! you think it s going to stop people to work to get their own food.?

why not ask to stop prostitution in this case? prostitution is illegal in Thailand and many work without a work permit. even Walmart hire illegals.(sorry, I mean undocumented immigrants)

why do you think our governments are now broke? USA 18t debt, Europe 20t debt,....

the system is old, kaput, finished, terminated....

Edited March 8, 2015 by VIPinthailand

[tonbridgebrit]

Does Thailand benefit if a lot of foreigners come here and become tourist guides ? Does every nation that recieves lots of foreign workers benefit ?

In Thailand, if lots of Thais become un-employed because lots of foreigners enter Thailand and take those jobs, does Thailand benefit ?? It appears to be that Thailand is very cautious when it comes to giving out work permits to foreigners.

The Thais, they're not that daft or silly. They're not going to let a load of foreigners enter their country and take-over. There was a bit of talk on Thai Visa about how the Thais would be f___ once ASEAN 2015 comes in. Yes, unlimited numbers of people entering into Thailand and working will mean that the Thais will be f___. But the Thais won't let it happen, they will simply not give out a stack of work permits to the foreigners.

Dead right they won't ! Under Thai labour law it's illegal to roll your own cigarettes even, as you are taking a job away from a Thai.......... And that's just the start.......... And it's never going to change because Thais and Thailand could not compete fairly with most nationalities.......... It is what it is..........

Supermarine, the bit you wrote was "Dead right they won't ! Under Thai labour law it's illegal to roll your own cigarettes even, as you are taking a job away from a Thai.......... And that's just the start.......... And it's never going to change because Thais and Thailand could not compete fairly with most nationalities.......... It is what it is..........". Let's say you're right, so Thais and Thailand can't compete fairly against most nationalities. Does that mean it's good to bring in cheaper foreigners to replace the Thais ? Does this help Thailand ?

In Europe, how many toliet cleaning companies are there ? Now, when hiring staff, surely, those companies will be able to get cheaper staff from outside of Europe. As in people from Africa and Asia will be willing to clean toilets for less wages. So, is it good to bring in a vast number of toilet cleaners from Africa and Asia, and replace those toilet cleaners in Europe ? It's not about being against or racist towards foreigners, it's about protecting workers in Europe. In Thailand's case, it should be about protecting Thai workers.

Protectionism, rigging the market so that our own people will benefit. Most countries in the world do at least a little bit of protectionism for themselves. That country China, how often do they rigg the market to suit themselves ? Are they being daft and silly when they rigg the market to suit themselves ? Is Thailand being daft and silly if it is trying to rig the market to suit itself ??

[crazykopite]

Having worked in Holland for two years I can say that the English language is spoken very well by most Dutch nationals, I cannot help but think this guy may have been stitched up big time !

[memkuk]

But, then again, you're not Belgian, mr. NativeSon 30, so how could you possibly have an opinion on this? It's meant as a joke and fits beatifully in long love and friendly banter that goes on between the people of our great nations.

But maybe it's just me, a Belgian loving Dutchman (like the majority of the Dutch)

And your Bullie "argumentative" point is.....? Huh? duh!

NativeSon360, I've got news for you: I totally agree with Robblok and Bullie, although I am a Flemish/Dutch speaking Belgian. We don't take offense. This teasing has gone on for generations and a byproduct of this has been thousands of really good jokes about Belgians and Dutch as well. And that's all I've got to say about that.

[djjamie]

did Jesus had a work permit when he was preaching all over the world?

??????

work permit, passport, tax, visa, is part of the past. we live in a global world today where race, religion, are all mixed.

when I read a guy who is arrested because he got a little job as a translator , that s make me laugh.! you think it s going to stop people to work to get their own food.?

why not ask to stop prostitution in this case? prostitution is illegal in Thailand and many work without a work permit. even Walmart hire illegals.(sorry, I mean undocumented immigrants)

why do you think our governments are now broke? USA 18t debt, Europe 20t debt,....

the system is old, kaput, finished, terminated....

But Jesus? He was from the Middle East..

Walmart is in America...

Prostitution? That has nothing to do with a Belgian guy working in Thailand without a work permit?

If you disagree with this then petition the government to change the law.

Until they do people working in Thailand without a work permit will be prosecuted just like they are in every other western country around the world.

[thaibeachlovers]

A criminal.

Taking jobs away from fully fluent in Dutch Thai people.

These fully fluent in Dutch Thai people that live in the area don't deserve to have this guy make Dutch tourist's holidays better while helping the local economy with their money.

If he was providing a service that was needed by the THAIS, he could have got a proper job with a work permit. As he chose to ignore the law and got caught, he suffers the consequences. The crime isn't being a better translator/ tour guide than the locals, it's working without a permit.

I respect the Thais for trying to protect jobs for Thai people. If it was easy for farangs to do such, the locals would soon be out of work as thousands of farangs wanting to live in Thailand would flood in and take the jobs.

[Shadychris]

In Amsterdam, my home town we often see busloads of tourists. ALL asian tourists (yes, including Thais) bring their own tourguide, usually waving a little flag to keep the herd together. Even though there are Thai Dutchman that could easily do the job. So, if the Thai can "steal" jobs from us Farang, should not we be allowed to do the same especially because it makes sense to be adressed by someone in your own langage, rather than a Thai tourguide without proper english qualifications who has unintelligible english at the best of times.

(Rant out)

As they say: you can not have the cake (tourists) and eat it (Thailand exclusively for the Thai). Time to wake up, here

That's a very interesting point. I think in this case the Belgian guy had probably not travelled to Thailand with the Dutch group and had simply solicited their business in Thailand, in which case he is guilty. But it does raise the question in general not only of tour guides but also drivers. Do coach drivers and tour guides actually have to have a work permit when they visit other countries? You would assume that because the work has been agreed and paid in the home country of the people involved that the answer is no.

How about long distance inter-continental lorry drivers? I seem to think that performing artists and professional sports people do not need work permits when travelling overseas either.... maybe the rules vary from country to country? I suspect that there must be exemptions for certain cases in the immigration and work permit regs to cover these cases.

Perhaps there is an expert or immigration lawyer here who can advise?

[thaibeachlovers]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The Dutch are very smart people. Most speak some English and some speak it very well. It is possible the Belgian was able to communicate to the Dutch tourists in their own language better than the Thai guides can speak English. However, he broke the law and the law won.

Wrong place, wrong time. Remember where you are!

English is the second language for the Dutch , they speak excellent English , you are correct, he broke the law.

He did break the law you are correct. However the law should be looked at some time this century. If he was to apply for a work permit he would have to be employed at a ratio of four Thais to one foreigner in order to be accepted. He was giving a service that improves tourism in Thailand. Even if there were a Thai tour guide that could speak Dutch I don't think they could be fluent and make the tourists comfortable in the way he will have done. Tourist guide was until recently one of the occupations forbidden for foreigners, maybe still is. These laws are old and don't help Thailand pull itself into the modern world.

Perhaps if there were Chinese tour guides talking to the Chinese about Thai culture the Chinese tourists would stop kicking bells and use the toilets in the correct manner.

I'm sure this man knew he shouldn't be working as a tour guide on a tourist visa and therefore deserves to be repremanded but lets not throw him to the wolves eh!

These laws are old and don't help Thailand pull itself into the modern world.

If by "modern world" you mean importing foreigners so they can be exploited with low wages and bad conditions, Thailand is doing itself a favour by having none of that. The western world is pretty good at exploiting people though.

[djjamie]

did Jesus had a work permit when he was preaching all over the world?

??????

work permit, passport, tax, visa, is part of the past. we live in a global world today where race, religion, are all mixed.

when I read a guy who is arrested because he got a little job as a translator , that s make me laugh.! you think it s going to stop people to work to get their own food.?

why not ask to stop prostitution in this case? prostitution is illegal in Thailand and many work without a work permit. even Walmart hire illegals.(sorry, I mean undocumented immigrants)

why do you think our governments are now broke? USA 18t debt, Europe 20t debt,....

the system is old, kaput, finished, terminated....

But Jesus? He was from the Middle East..

Walmart is in America...

Prostitution? That has nothing to do with a Belgian guy working in Thailand without a work permit?

If you disagree with this then petition the government to change the law.

Until they do people working in Thailand without a work permit will be prosecuted just like they are in every other western country around the world.

Seriously…What are you trying to say?

[bangon04]

In Amsterdam, my home town we often see busloads of tourists. ALL asian tourists (yes, including Thais) bring their own tourguide, usually waving a little flag to keep the herd together. Even though there are Thai Dutchman that could easily do the job. So, if the Thai can "steal" jobs from us Farang, should not we be allowed to do the same especially because it makes sense to be adressed by someone in your own langage, rather than a Thai tourguide without proper english qualifications who has unintelligible english at the best of times.

(Rant out)

As they say: you can not have the cake (tourists) and eat it (Thailand exclusively for the Thai). Time to wake up, here

so you have very clearly pointed out that the Europeans have allowed the Asians to get ahead by either - not having the same level of employment law which can protect Farang jobs

or - not bothering to enforce the laws that do exist.

So who are the fools ?

[whybother]

Does Thailand benefit if a lot of foreigners come here and become tourist guides ? Does every nation that recieves lots of foreign workers benefit ?

In Thailand, if lots of Thais become un-employed because lots of foreigners enter Thailand and take those jobs, does Thailand benefit ?? It appears to be that Thailand is very cautious when it comes to giving out work permits to foreigners.

The Thais, they're not that daft or silly. They're not going to let a load of foreigners enter their country and take-over. There was a bit of talk on Thai Visa about how the Thais would be f___ once ASEAN 2015 comes in. Yes, unlimited numbers of people entering into Thailand and working will mean that the Thais will be f___. But the Thais won't let it happen, they will simply not give out a stack of work permits to the foreigners.

The AEC will not allow unlimited people to enter Thailand (or any ASEAN country) to work. The rules will allow a small number of professions to work in other countries.

[judax]

In Pattaya, Pratumnak are plenty Russians selling from food to condos openly on the pavement sure they haven't got work permits. Whats with all the Russian sex workers offering their services in Jomtien Beach road. How did they got a work permit.

[chooka]

Note to self, when my friends and family come over don't take them to a local restaurant for dinner. Anyone have a number for pizza delivery?

[draftvader]

Post removed for replying inside the quotes. This makes it difficult for people to know what is being quoted and what is a reply. When quoting please place your content outside of the quotes.

[slipperylobster]

Another 'innocent' person arrested?

You asked about it twice, I'll answer you once.

Yes, in my eyes he is innocent.

I don't give a damn about work permits and requirements.

He was offering a service that the Thais could not offer as none of them could probably speak Dutch.

Many of you will condemn me for what I said but this is my opinion.

He didn't commit a crime he just wanted to make a living.

He who is without sin can cast the first stone now....................

Please remember the post you made here, in the future

Not innocent..but in fact caught Red Handed. This visa system is quite clear...and I see that it is possible to get working arrangements, provided you do it the right way.

People who work on tourist visas make the system what it is now. Legitimate tourists are scrutinized even more so, than in the past.

If he was providing a "necessary service", then I am certain that a legal path to employment is available. One thousand baht a head for 23 tourists is quite a lot of money for a day out. It was very naive of him to think that he would not make other Agencies in the area ...jealous.

Edited March 8, 2015 by slipperylobster

[joesanunu]

Something's wrong with this story.

Usually the immigration officer doesn't arrest the farang. They become business partners with a monthly visit to collect a percentage of the farangs pay.

In Pattaya, immigration officers constantly visit business hoping to exploit the situation. They LOVE illegal employees here.

[ksamuiguy]

I am a Professional, Degreed Engineer with a Work Permit and Company Registered for well over 20 years here in Thailand.

I basically have no restriction placed against me in my profession, Corporation and Respect with my Thai counterpart goes a long way

But restrictions,! Professionalism, Credibility, Mutual Trust is all that's needed!

It is easy to be legal here, just follow the rules, not many are new, they are just enforcing ones (rules) that have been on the books but never implemented before.

Over the years I have done the renewals, visas, work permits my self, no lawyer, no agent, only my Thai Partner and Translator.

I have never had a problem, just follow the rules and keep up with the changes.

Know your rights under the law, Yes we do have them and I have used them on occasion.

As the lawyers would say "Due Diligence" a vital part of every profession.