Start Of Action Against Cs-loxinfo

[Guest Reimar]

To whom it may concern

Today at 13.30 h we sent the following E-Mail to the responsible Humans at CS-LOXINFO:

Dear Khun Narumol and Khun Suwat!

We’re everything but NOT satisfied with the system of the IP-Star!

But we’re very satisfied that your engineers do NOT get it to work.

As of today and this since last week Wednesday, the system keeps rebooting at all times of the day. The speed is very low. Downloads broken to more than 50%, if can download finish, send of e-mails nearly impossible and with attachments impossible at all. VoIP connection totally impossible.

What else I should tell? I’m fed up to spend everyday more than 2 or 3 hour for to test the system for your engineers. I’m fed up if I call to the service line of CS-Loxinfo and no one pick up the phone from the Voice system and this since last week Wednesday again as well! Oh, once yesterday I get one human on the phone but after not again. Today I got Khun Suwat on mobile, but once only. Call back from him as agreed: NO!

Already more than 4 month without a reliable service from your company, and to 95% of this time totally un-useable service!

More than 2 month ago I already informed you that we will NOT pay the service charge for that time we can NOT use the system. Any Solution or info from CS-Loxinfo in written form? NOT ANY! What your company thinking: Who we are?

We are a Thailand registered Company, regular Tax paying, billing for service we have done only and even not charge anything to companies we helped testing “unreliable” systems like we have done for your company: CS-LOXINFO and THAICOM! And we are under the rule of the Royal Thailand Law!

We do expect a Solution and a schedule of the time you will start up a reliable system!

We also expect a Solution and an answer in written form from some one who is in charge and can finalize the “NEW” Payments and Payment terms to our company.

We do reserve all rights to take every legal action in case your company is NOT willing to solve the existing problems. We also reserves the right to take every possible legal action to recover the expenses we had until right now with the totally unreliable an useless system IP-Star, include the expenses for our not answered telephone calls on your Voice Answering system.

Signed from my Company and me.

[cnxpat]

Good luck Reimar.

I came here with loads of problems re. TOT IPStar, yet they solved the issues within 2 weeks, and it has been working fine ever since. Could that be an option for your company? The path you are going can be a long one, I can just guess CS has more time than you have, and in the mean time, you need to be operational right?

Anyway, wishing you all the best!

[george]

Change to ipstar by TOT, it works wonders!

[Guest Reimar]

Just get a call from K. Narumol.

Finally I offered CS-Loxinfo to be happy with the Payments from April and May and they should cancel the invoices from June til August. If the service goes ok in September I'm willing to pay.

I also offered to go with CS-Loxinfo to the court and suit them for my expenses as well for the service they didn't give and my cost I've to get some one to service us on the phone or other.

That idea she do NOT like.

She also told that CS-Loxinfo is now a Dealer of TOT for IP-Star!! Hardly to belive because THAICOM is a Shinawatra Communication Comany as well as CS-Loxinfo.

Now she want to talk with Managment of CS-L and Finance what to do.

Ok, I will see and I will kepp informing here.

[Guest Reimar]

Latest Info:

As "normal": the promiss to call back within 30 min., what means promissed at 15.30 h today, is "blowing in the wind", no9t get any call until right now at 18.15 h.

I will send a company letter on company paper tonight by FAX and if there is not any answer with 3 days in written form by FAX, I will send a registered letter which will contains the order of cancelation and the info that we will bill CS-Loxinfo for our expenses. On Wednesday I will have a meeting with my laywer.

May I check up tomorrow how long TOT need to install IP-Styar at my new office.

[Thaising]

Would suggest that you too write to any english newspaper forum, cause your complains to CS-Loxinfo might not reach the top management to take action.

Edited August 28, 2006 by Thaising

[astral]

Sorry but your choice of language, using the negative, will be totally lost on the Thais.

[h90]

Sorry but your choice of language, using the negative, will be totally lost on the Thais.

I guess it will be anyway lost, I don´t think it is possible to get more than you don´t need to pay the invoices. Don´t think you get any money from them, I would say I am 99 % sure, but I wish you good luck....

[Guest Reimar]

No one should think that we or me want to make some money with it. The deal is another: we need to force CS-L to cancle the contract by semself because if we cancle the contract, we must pay the open invoices. Thats all!

In the moment we waiting to get the revised letter back from our laywer to send to CS-L.

In the mean time i run a program named Camtasia to record the complete work on the computer with the IP-Star service. Just checke by remote: the system restarted already several times since i leave the office.

An way, as far as we've send the eltter to CS-L I'll publish the contents here.

[Guest Reimar]

As promissed, I'll publish the letter weve sent to CS-Loxinfo today. That letter was done by our Barrister with compliment to the existing Law of the Kingdom of Thailand:

To

CS-LOXINFO

Attn.: Khun Narumol

Date: August 29. 2006

Subject: IP-Star: Lack of Service, NON Service

Dear Khun Narumol,

I read your e-mail, dated August 29, 2006 with interest.

First of all, I do have respect for other humans and I would like to address them with their correct title such as: Khun, Mrs., Miss, Dr., Mr., Sir and do expect others to have the same respect for me.

Let me make some other facts very clear:

1. Since April 25. 2006 the service for the IP-Star system has been faulty;

2. It took more than 3 weeks to get someone from Service at 0 2263 7171 on the phone;

3. Until beginning of June 2006 no one was making any attempt to solve the existing problems;

4. A meeting, provoked only by our visiting the office of CS-Loxinfo, resulted for the first time in someone’s being made responsible for sorting out the problems: Khun Phurint;

5. However, none of Mr. Phurint’s actions, real or not, have had any positive result;

6. After Mr. Phurint refused to talk to us, Khun Narumol replaced him as your intermediary;

7. Replacement of the box and the receiver made no difference: still nothing worked properly;

8. In fact, no action taken by your service department has had any positive result;

9. We have every day undertaken speed tests and test downloads and submitted the results incl. screen shots, to your office;

10. On August 22. 2006 Khun Direk came to our office to check the system, without any positive result;

11. Khun Direk spent the whole day to communicating with someone, using my own mobile phone, checking our data on our hard disk, surfing the Internet and so on;

12. After Khun Direk left the system actually got much worse;

13. From Wednesday August 23. 2006 until Sunday August 26. 2006 at noon, we were unable to get someone in your Service Department on the phone;

14. The person from your service on Sunday did not get back in touch with us later as promised;

15. On Monday August 27. 2006 I called the mobile phone of Mr. Suwat and explained our situation;

16. Later on that day Khun Narumol called me to answer an e-mail over the phone.

The rest of this story is very well known to Khun Narumol.

Today we received an e-mail from Khun Narumol stating that we should pay an amount of THB 8,346.00

This amount we will NOT pay.

Reason:

1. No usable service since April 25. 2006

2. All downloads done for testing purpose only, mostly with CRC errors and many at your request for use by your service personnel in attempts to solve the problems;

3. According to your service engineers your company is unable to solve the existing problems at the moment or in the immediate future;

4. E-mail can be sent but only after repeated attempts;

5. Use of VoIP (Voice over Internet) is impossible most of the time.

Let me inform that we at PC-INFO Service Co., Ltd. will NOT cancel the contract and that it is your responsibility to get the system to work reliably.

As we have already paid for the month of May but obtained no reliable service, we are still owed an equivalent period of reliable service for the fee already paid.

According to the Law of the Kingdom of Thailand, we have to pay for services which we have received already. That we have done in the past and we will do so in the future. However, the level of service you have provided so far could not be construed as any form of service for which payment might be due.

Should CS-LOXINFO purport to cancel the service they will be in breach of the existing contract and will face legal action for the recovery of all our losses, expenses and any services fees already paid plus general damages

Our offer as given already:

• With payment already made for May 2006, CS-LOXINFO will cancel the invoices from June until such time as the service works reliably;

• PC-INFO Service Co., Ltd. will immediately after reliable service is achieved and operating begin to make the appropriate monthly payments to CS-LOXINFO.

Signed from PC-INFO Service Co., Ltd. and me

There was not any answer today, not in written form and not with e-mail or tel. call.

Since yesterday evening at 18.00 h I record with the software "Camtasia" all on the screen displayed action and the only program running on that computer is the Terminal Windows from the IP-Star system. It records all changes in real time and with this we get and keep the evidence about the unreliable service of the CS-Loxinfo IP-Star.

I will keep informing about new action, from which site ever.

[kudroz]

Cut your loses, stop wasting time on this. I had IPStar myself for around 3 months - and it was impossible to use it.

Cut your loses, get IPStar with TOT as the ISP - the problem with CSLoxinfo is that they don't have enough bandwidth for the IPStar subscribers they have. The sattellite system itself works ok, it's the bandwidth at their end that is saturated.

I heard from many people that IPStar TOT delivers up to its expectations - stay clear of CS Loxinfo.

[h90]

Reimar: I am about to cancel IPStar and the last few weeks it worked really good (well really good for IPStar.

I stay in Thaveewattana BKK. If that is not too far you are welcome to check here mine (as long as it is not canceled) and if it is working well you can ask them if you can have my IPStar equipment and account, as the sat does not know where you are located.

But I have doubts if they are that flexible at Csloxinfo

[tigerbeer]

Reimar i hope you are succesful despite all the negativity. keep us posted on what you achieve.

[Guest Reimar]

Thanks to all of you for your replies.

As of today CS-LOXINFO has suspended the service to us because we still did not pay anything more as we have done in April and May!

We had send letter to CS-L to clear the situation: NO NSWER! I mean not an answer to the letter it self!

This is that letter:

"To

CS-LOXINFO

Attn.: Khun Narumol

Date: August 29. 2006

Subject: IP-Star, here: Lack of Service, NON Service

Dear Khun Narumol,

I read your e-mail, dated August 29, 2006 with interest.

First at all, I do have respect for other humans and I would like to call them with the right title like: Khun, Mrs., Miss. Dr. Mr., Sir pp. and do expect that others have the same respect for me.

""Khun Narumol was start writing: Dear Reimar ..... and I do not like that way, special if there some problems occurs! We must keep respect before each other!""

Let me make some other facts very clear:

Since April 25. 2006 the service for the IP-Star system lacks ;

It have need more than 3 weeks to someone from the service at 0 2263 7171 on the phone;

Until beginning of June 2006 no one was trying to solve the existing problems;

After a meeting, forced from us by visiting the office of CS-Loxinfo, the 1. Time we got someone to take care, as we was thinking: Khun Phurint;

All from Mr. Phurint explained action, real or not, nave not any positive result;

After Mr. Phurint refused to talk to us, Khun Narumol had take over him’s part;

Changes of the Box and the receiver do not works;

Actions, taken from your service, haven’t any positive result;

We done every day speed testings and test downloads and submittet the results incl. screen shots, to your office;

On August 22. 2006 Khun Direk came to our office to check the system: without positive result;

Khun Direk use the whole day to communicate with someone, include from my own Mobile Phone, checking our Data on our Hard Disk, surfing the Internet and so on;

After Khun Direk was leaving the system gets much more worst;

From Wednesday August 23. 2006 until Sunday August 26. 2006 at noon, we wasn’t able to get someone on the phone;

The person from your service at Sunday, do not inform us later as promised;

On Monday Augusty 27. 2006 I called to the handy from Mr. Suwat and explained our situation;

Later on that day Khun Narumol called to me to answer a e-mail on the phone.

The rest of this story is very well known by Khun Narumol.

Today we received an e-mail from Khun Narumol with the contents that we should pay an amount of THB 8,346.00

This amount we will NOTY pay.

Reason:

No useable service since April 25. 2006

All download done for testing purpose only, mostly with CRC errors and many on your requirement for use by you service personal to solve the problems;

According to the speech of your service engineers your company is unable to solve the existing problems until today and towards for the next time;

The sent of e-mail is possible after a lot of atemps for the same mail;

The use of VoIP (Voice over Internet) in not possible for the mostly time.

Let me inform that we at PC-INFO Service Co., Ltd. will NOT cancle the contract and that it is on your behalf to get the system reliable to work.

As we paid for the month of May with NO reliable service already we still have to get the service for that amount of time.

According to existing Law of the Kingdom of Thailand, we have to pay for services which we have received already. That we have done in the past and we will follow on this for the future.

In case that CS-LOXINFO cancel the service CS-LOXINFO break the existing contract which will face legal action include the recovery of all our expenses and losses.

Our offer as given already:

With the already done payment for May 2006, CS-LOXINFO cancel the invoices from June until that date the service works on an reliable stage;

Start of paying for service, from CS-LOXINFO to PC-INFO Service, PC-INFO Service Co., Ltd. will do immediately after the service starts reliable " end of letter.

The answer came by e-mail after CS-Loxinfo, or better Khun Narumol let tell me that she havn't got that letter; The answer was this:

[/i]"Dear Dr.Reimar,

First, please accept my sincere apology for error and miss to address your title (which I always do everytime in the past) in prior email.

We have processed discount for you due to your complain earlier for amount of 4,280 baht in June and 2,140 baht in July.

However, with our deeply regret, as you have failed to make a payment for service fees, your iPSTAR service will be suspended on the 31st August, 2006.

Yours sincerely,

Narumol Sida" end of e-mail.

My answer to this e-mail:

"Dear Khun Narumol,

I received your e-mail from today August 31.2006, send at 3.02 pm.

As I know before that you would not answer our letter from yesterday with a proper and objective response, I'm also not wondering to receive today a e-mail from Khun Suwat telling us that you haven't receive our Letter from yesterday which was sent by FAX. After we sent again today morning at 8.46 to 2 different FAX numbers, you answered with the above mentioned e-mail.

We also know before, from experience with you already, that you will never mentioned your answers in written as done in phone call or direct meetings before. In our view actions like this are not a good behavior.

All Information your had getting from us about the use of your more as poor system, include the testing of the speeds and downloads, which was done even on your own recommendation, is ignored by you.

I still keep a lot of evidence about all the action which was done form yours and from our side. I do have the proof of the real work of the IP-Star system which we will present at the time of need.

I hope for yourself that you know that your breach our contract if you suspend the service for the IP-Star. The last few days I already record the system at the whole time without to try to do any work on it, just for capture the evidence for later use.

Let me inform you that I will go public incl. to show the full names from the people who are involved in this.

Yours sincerely

Reimar Engellage

Dir. PC-INFO Service Co., Ltd." end of answer

Today at noon the service was suspended.

On Monday CS-Lox will get this letter by hand-delivery from us:

"Dear Sirs,

We request a final meeting with members of the management of CS-Loxinfo Public Company Limited, about the Non-Service of your IP-Star system, before we take further action.

As of today your company has suspended service to us of the IP-Star system, without solving the existing problems, and therefore your company is in breach of the existing contract. We have ample evidence that the IP-Star system has not worked on a reliable basis from the end of April 2006 to date: indeed to call it 'service' would be a gross misrepresentation and distortion of language.

We presume that your company would like to solve the existing problems without having to face the route of profitless and expensive litigation, not to mention the accompanying adverse publicity.

We also believe that it could not be deliberate policy on your company's part to make your customers pay for virtually non-existant and wholly unreliable service.

You should also keep in mind that the number of users dissatisfied with the IP-Star system from CS-Loxinfo is growing every day, as can be seen from the internet message boards and forums. It must be in your own best interests to try and sort out the problems in an amicable fashion.

We expect a meeting in the week beginning 4th September. Please notify us as to the exact date and time within the next few days by e-mail to: [email protected] or by FAX to: 0 2383 7394

Your sincerely

………………………………………..

Reimar Engellage

Dir. PC-INFO Service Co., Ltd." end of letter.

We realy like to know how far CS-Loxinfo will go?! According to a judge from one Court CS-Lox can't win if we start a law-suit against them!

I will keep informing about next actions or what ever will happen.

Edited September 2, 2006 by Reimar

[alexth]

Maybe if we'd have more people like Reinmar here, we would teach them a lesson...you guys have fun on his behalf all you want, but if we'd all act the same way, I guess many things in Thailand would change, afterall, it's not like we ask for something more than what we pay for.

[cnxpat]

Maybe if we'd have more people like Reinmar here, we would teach them a lesson...you guys have fun on his behalf all you want, but if we'd all act the same way, I guess many things in Thailand would change, afterall, it's not like we ask for something more than what we pay for.

What guys are actually "having fun on his behalf"?

Maybe some are a bit cynical (out of their own experiences), that has more to do with the expected results of the actions by Reimar than the actions itself.

[alexth]

Maybe if we'd have more people like Reinmar here, we would teach them a lesson...you guys have fun on his behalf all you want, but if we'd all act the same way, I guess many things in Thailand would change, afterall, it's not like we ask for something more than what we pay for.

What guys are actually "having fun on his behalf"?

Maybe some are a bit cynical (out of their own experiences), that has more to do with the expected results of the actions by Reimar than the actions itself.

And your point is?

[The Coder]

No answer huh? Not really surprising to me. If you want to get their attention, maybe a class action lawsuit for a refund to all subscribers or a court order to bar them from adding any new subscribers until they can handle the load of the existing customers. They might then take you a bit more seriously.

[macb]

Well I got IP-Star Satelitte Broadband when they first became agents and after initial teething probs its great, only thing is next time I pass office I want it re-setting as up-load tends to be 99% not 128.

Otherwise no complaints at all.

macb

[Guest Reimar]

Yesterday I was sending a FAX to CS-L and today I try to hand-deliver this document as Original to the office of CS-L! After 3 hour I was getting informed that nobody allowed to sign a receipt of the delivery of this document. This order was forced from Khun Phurint Phrasom, Assistant Director Manager Costumer Support

The receipt they should sign is this one:

"To

CS-LOXINFO Public Company Limited

Department: Legal Affairs

973 President Tower 11th. Floor, Ploenchit Road

Lumpini, Pathumwan

Bangkok 10330

Date: September 3. 2006

Subject: suspended service IP-Star

Dear Sirs,

We request a final meeting with members of the management of CS-Loxinfo Public Company Limited,

about the Non-Service of your IP-Star system, before we take further action.

As of today your company has suspended service to us of the IP-Star system, without solving the existing

problems, and therefore your company is in breach of the existing contract. We have ample evidence that the IP-Star system has not worked on a reliable basis from the end of April 2006 to date: indeed to call it 'service' would be a gross misrepresentation and distortion of language.

We presume that your company would like to solve the existing problems without having to face the route of profitless and expensive litigation, not to mention the accompanying adverse publicity.

We also believe that it could not be deliberate policy on your company's part to make your customers pay for virtually non-existant and wholly unreliable service.

You should also keep in mind that the number of users dissatisfied with the IP-Star system from CS-Loxinfo is growing every day, as can be seen from the internet message boards and forums.

It must be in your own best interests to try and sort out the problems in an amicable fashion.

We expect a meeting in the week beginning 4th September. Please notify us as to the exact date and time within the next few days by e-mail to: [email protected] or by FAX to: 0 2383 7394

……………………………………….. Receipt of the Original document:

Reimar Engellage Date: …………………………………… 2006, Time: ………………………..

2006Director and Owner

Sign: ………………………………………………………………………………….

""

I was informed that I need to send this document by "Registered Mail"!

Now is the question: What is the difference between hand delivery and registered mail? Both of them need to be signed!

Today I was getting the e-mail address of the Managing Director of CS-Loxinfo ([email protected]) and wrote a e-mail to him with some questions. Here some of them:

"But now I ask myself and you several questions:

1. To pay for a service we not getting we MUST pay?

2. To charge for services we haven’t done, are normal and legal or is it fraud?

3. To ignore all existing and very well know facts, errors and so on is this a "normal" business of your company?

4. To ignore the test results of your own service personal, is that normal?

5. Not answering letters in the way not to answer the facts and details from this letter, is this a "normal" procedure in your company?

6. Not to accept a letter submitted by hand-delivery is this a "normal" procedure in your company?"

The service personal which try to help with this things and all other involve was getting the order from Khun Phurint Phrasom, Assistant Director Manager Costumer Support not to sign anything from my company or me.

Tomorrow I will go to the Bangkok Post and Thairath News and to The Nation later on. May someone interested to publish our "experience" with CS-Loxinfo.

I will keep informing.

[h90]

keep us informed.....

[cnxpat]

Reimar, I fully understand the frustration and anger, yet apparently, things are not developing the way you want them to.

Just another thing that came to mind, especially after reading your last correspondence.

IMHO it might be a good idea to leave some options open for CS-Loxinfo (or the responsible manager or whoever) to settle/solve the situation in such a way, that whoever is responsible, will NOT "loose face". Especially not to a farang. Yes, we're talking serious business, legal procedures, contracts etc, but many of times it still seems the work better than leaving the option out at all.

You can still make sure you will get what you want (and deserve, and pay for!) but this is something that can't be ignored I'm afraid.

I am wondering what other members think of this, in particular Thai members actually!

If I am totally wrong, let me know, I just thought it might be a consideration. As you know very well, things don't work the way we were used to it in the "old world", sometimes "if you can't beat them, join them". Is that fair, is that right, does it feel right? I don't know, I won't be the judge of that. You have a business to run, staff to pay and the responsibilities that come with it. (So has CS-Loxinfo, again, this post is not regarding the actual issue which is clear to us, but more about how to handle it).

In the mean time, did you check TOT's IPStar options? As you know, mine worked fine after the teething problems MacB was referring to as well, and I have no complaints whatsoever!

Good luck once again.

[Guest endure]

Maybe if we'd have more people like Reinmar here, we would teach them a lesson...you guys have fun on his behalf all you want, but if we'd all act the same way, I guess many things in Thailand would change, afterall, it's not like we ask for something more than what we pay for.

The alternative view is for Reimar to work out how much his time is worth, multiply it by the number of hours he's spending on this and see how much it's costing him. If it's costing him more than cancelling his contract and moving to an alternative supplier then he's wasting his money, no matter how gratifying to him to 'win' his case.

[Guest Reimar]

Dear all!

Let me make something clear: I really do believe that I should go ahead with that was I started! It’s not me or my company only: it’s the complete community of the users of IP-Star who are involved because all of them have to pay! And have to pay for what? For a service with is not useable for the most of the Users of the CS-Loxinfo IP-Star!

How many of you all disagree with me?

The whole “game” I started is not to make some money, or to “screw” some one! No, it is done to get something to work! To get something to work while we all paying for! That’s all! And I’ll never agree with someone who tell “never mind” or “Mai Pen Arai” or “you loose time and money” pp. Who is thinking this way finally agrees with that humans who is taken the money and others from them and other people as well!

If it is not already a criminal act to charge for a service in advance which is not possible to supply, at minimum it is very close to the border of that crime. If we doing the same “work” with CS-Loxinfo, you can be more than sure that we will face legal actions as fast as will not able to look that fast! So, why we should accept?

Tomorrow morning at 10 am I will have a meeting with the editor of Thairath, the biggest Thai Newsletter. The next may be The nation while I waiting for the confirmation of date and time for that meeting. The Bangkok post have to wait until the end of this month because Tony Waltham, the editor, is on Vacation till end of this month.

I will keep informing.

[cnxpat]

Dear all!

Let me make something clear: I really do believe that I should go ahead with that was I started! It’s not me or my company only: it’s the complete community of the users of IP-Star who are involved because all of them have to pay! And have to pay for what? For a service with is not useable for the most of the Users of the CS-Loxinfo IP-Star!

How many of you all disagree with me?

The whole “game” I started is not to make some money, or to “screw” some one! No, it is done to get something to work! To get something to work while we all paying for! That’s all! And I’ll never agree with someone who tell “never mind” or “Mai Pen Arai” or “you loose time and money” pp. Who is thinking this way finally agrees with that humans who is taken the money and others from them and other people as well!

If it is not already a criminal act to charge for a service in advance which is not possible to supply, at minimum it is very close to the border of that crime. If we doing the same “work” with CS-Loxinfo, you can be more than sure that we will face legal actions as fast as will not able to look that fast! So, why we should accept?

Tomorrow morning at 10 am I will have a meeting with the editor of Thairath, the biggest Thai Newsletter. The next may be The nation while I waiting for the confirmation of date and time for that meeting. The Bangkok post have to wait until the end of this month because Tony Waltham, the editor, is on Vacation till end of this month.

I will keep informing.

Reimar, I, and anyone on the forum replying, I guess is not trying to disagree, I guess all have their experiences. I do think most agree that humans (as you call it, "not a delicate term to use") in Thailand operate different than in say Taiwan, or Botswana, or Germany.

From my farang background, I can not read the Nation, or the Bangkok Post without cracking up and thinking it's all just the funny pages, not just the intended ones.

I am sure you do too, so if people can get away with about everything, in this society, I don't think they will change for your sake. Sad ... yes!

You got a business to run right!? How many people do rely on you? Given the situation you describe, you are out of business for 4 months at least already, how do you pay staff? rent??

Good luck tomorrow, and did the service actually get suspended?

[Guest Reimar]

Dear all!

Let me make something clear: I really do believe that I should go ahead with that was I started! It’s not me or my company only: it’s the complete community of the users of IP-Star who are involved because all of them have to pay! And have to pay for what? For a service with is not useable for the most of the Users of the CS-Loxinfo IP-Star!

How many of you all disagree with me?

The whole “game” I started is not to make some money, or to “screw” some one! No, it is done to get something to work! To get something to work while we all paying for! That’s all! And I’ll never agree with someone who tell “never mind” or “Mai Pen Arai” or “you loose time and money” pp. Who is thinking this way finally agrees with that humans who is taken the money and others from them and other people as well!

If it is not already a criminal act to charge for a service in advance which is not possible to supply, at minimum it is very close to the border of that crime. If we doing the same “work” with CS-Loxinfo, you can be more than sure that we will face legal actions as fast as will not able to look that fast! So, why we should accept?

Tomorrow morning at 10 am I will have a meeting with the editor of Thairath, the biggest Thai Newsletter. The next may be The nation while I waiting for the confirmation of date and time for that meeting. The Bangkok post have to wait until the end of this month because Tony Waltham, the editor, is on Vacation till end of this month.

I will keep informing.

Reimar, I, and anyone on the forum replying, I guess is not trying to disagree, I guess all have their experiences. I do think most agree that humans (as you call it, "not a delicate term to use") in Thailand operate different than in say Taiwan, or Botswana, or Germany.

From my farang background, I can not read the Nation, or the Bangkok Post without cracking up and thinking it's all just the funny pages, not just the intended ones.

I am sure you do too, so if people can get away with about everything, in this society, I don't think they will change for your sake. Sad ... yes!

You got a business to run right!? How many people do rely on you? Given the situation you describe, you are out of business for 4 months at least already, how do you pay staff? rent??

Good luck tomorrow, and did the service actually get suspended?

Yes, the service is suspended since last Saturday at noon.

The experience from Monday is in my prior Post!

Today I got a new invoice for September which I will not pay also!

My e-mail, sent yesterday to the Managing Director of CS-LOxinfo Khun Anant KXX? was read today 3 times already. Not any answer untill right now!!

All e-mails I send I tracking and get the info when the mail was opened and where!

Luckly I still have my old office and I'm not out of any connection! My business is still running and my staff don't need to go on the street and ask for a cup of rice!!

But we'll see what will going on and I wait now for an reaction of CS-L. Tomorrow at 10 am Thairath! will see and will keep informing.

[Mobi]

I have the 512/256 service through Loxinfo which costs me 4,00 Baht a month. I upgraded from the 256 service a few months back in a desperate attempt to get a usable service. Almost as soon as I upgraded, the service went from bad to worse, and I had a terrible time of it for a while. It has gradually, and spasmodically improved, but I still get bad days - even bad weeks.

Lately the biggest problem is constant crashing. In between crashes the service is quite reasonable. But the crashes drive me round the bend - on a bad day maybe over a dozen times, on a good day maybe 6 times.

A friend advised me to call them, which I did, and they said they would monitor the 'disconnections' That was about a week agao, and since then the service has been fairly stable, but still it crashes maybe 4 or 5 times a day. Just about liveable - but who knows for how long? and at what cost?

My friend, who is also on Ipstar 512/256 decided to switch to TOT. He signed up for TOT, but when the engineers came to his home and saw that he already had a Loxinfo Ipstar equipment, - they mumbled something - disappeared and never came back. So for those thinking of changing - make sure the old equipment ios removed first.

Reiner I really applaud you on your efforts to obtain satisfaction from Loxinfo. I don't wish to discourage you, but I will be very surprised if you succeed in getting anywhere. I'm afraid this really is the land of "Mai ben Rai", and business ethics are virtually non-existent, whether you like it or not.

But good luck anyway.

[Plus]

Thais are humans, and the operate on mostly same laws as anyone else. It's ridiculous to drop the case just because someone at Loxinfo might lose face.

Litigation involving Ipstar service is not a small thing, it's a public company with international profile and any bad news would affect its stocks. It's not a noodle stand or something.

lawsuits if probably the best way to make them do something, until then it's just an annoying customer complaint.

[nikster]

Sorry but your choice of language, using the negative, will be totally lost on the Thais.

I guess it will be anyway lost, I don´t think it is possible to get more than you don´t need to pay the invoices. Don´t think you get any money from them, I would say I am 99 % sure, but I wish you good luck....

yeah, no way. if you were in the U.S. and you fought through a 10 year class action lawsuit - yeah, possible. but not in Thailand, not here, not now. there are clauses in the contract that say they are not responsible for unforeseen technical difficulties etc, the burden of proof, all that.

best you can do is quit them immediately and switch to TOT which others here say works just fine. I would certainly not believe any of their promises if they had the described history with me.

cut your losses!!

[nikster]

Dear all!

Let me make something clear: I really do believe that I should go ahead with that was I started! It’s not me or my company only: it’s the complete community of the users of IP-Star who are involved because all of them have to pay! And have to pay for what? For a service with is not useable for the most of the Users of the CS-Loxinfo IP-Star!

How many of you all disagree with me?

The whole “game” I started is not to make some money, or to “screw” some one! No, it is done to get something to work! To get something to work while we all paying for! That’s all! And I’ll never agree with someone who tell “never mind” or “Mai Pen Arai” or “you loose time and money” pp. Who is thinking this way finally agrees with that humans who is taken the money and others from them and other people as well!

If it is not already a criminal act to charge for a service in advance which is not possible to supply, at minimum it is very close to the border of that crime. If we doing the same “work” with CS-Loxinfo, you can be more than sure that we will face legal actions as fast as will not able to look that fast! So, why we should accept?

Tomorrow morning at 10 am I will have a meeting with the editor of Thairath, the biggest Thai Newsletter. The next may be The nation while I waiting for the confirmation of date and time for that meeting. The Bangkok post have to wait until the end of this month because Tony Waltham, the editor, is on Vacation till end of this month.

I will keep informing.

I guess I do not think like this about business.

There's bad businesses out there and the worst way I can punish them is by not using them anymore. And discourage others from using them. Eventually all the people will have turned away, the word will have been passed on, like with you: Before reading your posts, I might have considered CS LoxInfo. Now - no way. I am going to get satellite, but I sure as hel_l will stay away from these people. Word of mouth travels fast, even faster with internet.

So instead of fighting the fight for all of us, let's all collectively turn our backs on CS Loxinfo, they will run out of customers and close down. Or they will improve to win the customers back. That's the law of business. Suing is good when there is a clear opportinity to win, but this is not the case here.

You paid for services, service was not delivered, you did not pay anymore, quit, and told everyone about it - transaction closed, end of story. You could try to get your money back, that would both be fair and would have a reasonable chance of succeeding.