John Karr Innocent!

[BPayette]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/08/28/k...ot.to.quash.pdf

go here for the court reports , and details of his "confession"

reader discretion , theres some nasty stuff in there.

it will be interesting to see how the thai authorities backtrack on this , but in reality , anyone who makes confessions like this needs arresting and investigating.

the idiot is clearly barking mad and someone who confesses to fantasies like that presents a great danger to kids. there was no choice but to arrest , deport and check his dna to prove or disprove his involvement. full credit to the authorities. in the end they were wrong , but he had to be checked.

to be sneering and taunting the authorities with cries of "i told you so" for falling for his delusions is surely missing the point. this country is better off without him .

as for him making vast amounts of money out of this , well even i would credit the american media with more sense than to promote the story of a pornography addicted paedophile who has also confessed to the murder of a child.

i think he will be universally reviled.

Very well put!!!!

[Morty]

well, at least he got treated to a biz. class flight back home, beeing out of work and everything. smart guy in my opinion

[sonnyJ]

On waht basis?

Please, give me some proof/documents.

On the basis that he was an undesirable alien. Deportation does not require probable cause. Karr wasn't charged until he arrived in the USA.

Sonnyj, you have to understand that countries work sort of like bars: They reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.

That's why the immigration in any country - USA, Thailand, wherever - can deny entry to any foreigner, without legal recourse.

I'm not denying any of Thailands rights as an independent country here.

Just can't see any proof that he's on unwanted list. Actually remember reading a comment from the Thai police that he will be welcomed back if he's not guilty. Sorry but have source to give you.

I'm just saying that it has happened many times before, even persons who have committed crimes in Thailand have managed to return legally. Hope it would change but can see only few comforting comments that immigration here would change something.. sometime in the future...

If he really want to return, thats another thing. Teaching jobs might be hard to find, but not impossible I'm afraid.

[Laulen]

The American media are pretty exercised about this case as well. Here's a transcript from CNN's Live From programme...

Meanwhile, we're also talking about JonBenet Ramsey's father. Warned against a rush to judgment on John Mark Karr, now DNA rules Karr out. So what happens next in JonBenet's unsolved murder and what happens to the man whose admissions sparked a legal and media firestorm? We'll pretty sure Nancy Grace has a few things to say. She joins us between her gigs on "COURT TV" and "CNN HEADLINE NEWS." Nancy, why do so many people feel this case has just been jinxed since the very beginning.

NANCY GRACE, COURT TV: It has been, and it's not just a feeling it's a legal practicality. Now, you will hear defense attorneys sing to the moon that, yes, the prosecution can go forward when they find the right killer. That is totally bogus. Of course, under the law, if you read a law book in a law library, of course you can go forward. But practically speaking Kyra, let's have a reality check here. You really think a prosecutor can stand in front of a jury and say, yes, we thought it was the parents, yes, we thought it was Santa Claus, yes, we thought it was hel_l Garth.

Yes, we brought John Mark Karr all the way from Thailand. Well we were wrong. But now we're pretty sure it's this guy. It's not going to work. And I don't care how nice the district attorney Mary Lacy comes across in a press conference. I'll give you that. She's a nice lady. But this is a colossal blunder of biblical proportions. There's no way they can, with a straight face, go forward with a new suspect. And what was Pete McGuire talking about in the press conference today? Saying that they had an airtight case other than the DNA not matching? Hello! The guy was not in Boulder, he wasn't even in Colorado. No DNA, no fingerprint, nothing but the musings of a madman, x-rated e-mails? What are they thinking about?

PHILLIPS: Speaking of that news conference, let's take a listen to Mary Lacy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY LACY, BOULDER CO. DISTRICT ATTORNEY: On a separate occasion, they obtained a cup that he used to drink from and a tissue or wipe that he used to wipe his hands. The bottom line is that, after we did that, our expert -- and we put a great deal of respect in our expert from the Denver lab -- said that the sample in the underwear of the victim was a mixed sample and that we do not want to compare a mixed sample with a mixed sample. We need a pristine sample. That means a buckle swab. A buckle swab can only be taken by consent or by court proceeding or court order.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Oh, boy. Just make it all confusing. Mixed, pristine, buckle? Help me out here. Please explain who messed up and what should have been done over seas and should he have even been taken here?

GRACE: Absolutely not. Based on e-mails that he was writing to a professor, a journalist? Come on, as much as we don't like it, and if you go into some of these chat rooms on the internet, anybody can do it, you get musings about child pedophilia all the time. That's what this amounted to. And what I really resent, having been a long- time victims' rights advocate, is for the district attorney to hide behind the skirts of the safety of children. People, wake up. This guy has been subjected to children, been teaching in schools, had a daycare, for Pete's sake, out of his home, six months after JonBenet was murdered. He's been around children for years, but suddenly they have to bungle the case to protect children? That is so bogus.

Let's talk about DNA. When you go out to a bicycle that's been outside and you try to lift DNA, imagine Kyra, for instance, you work out on a treadmill or on a (INAUDIBLE) and you grab it. Of course there's going to be other DNA on that equipment, on that bicycle. Ridiculous! Don't tell me in Bangkok, Thailand, the child sex capital of the world you can't get this guy's DNA. And let me remind you, as sad as I am too, this guy offered on the third request to give authorities DNA. But guess what? The Boulder authorities didn't have their DNA kit with them. It's one thing after the next. Snake bit is a mild way to put it.

PHILLIPS: Nancy, final question, is he going to be back on the streets? Is he going to be allowed to teach in schools? Is he going to be around children? Is he going to walk free?

GRACE: He will not be allowed to teach children in this country, but he can go overseas and probably get a position there in a private school. He is looking at extradition back to California. That is a misdemeanor child pornography charge, carrying only six months per charge. He'll probably do about half that time and be back out on the street.

PHILLIPS: Nancy Grace, you don't want to miss her on "HEADLINE NEWS" or "Court TV."

GRACE: Goodbye friend.

Laulen

[cwilliam]

He may be innocent of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, but he still faces charges in California.

Non felony charge in Calif.Max 1 yr.,he already served 5 months prior waiting for bail.Will probably get time served.Hard way to get a free flight to the states.He is weird.

[Ulysses G.]

Nancy Grace is a moron.

We agree on Nancy.

Kind of hot in a domitrix sort of way though!

[farangene]

He may be innocent of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, but he still faces charges in California.

Non felony charge in Calif.Max 1 yr.,he already served 5 months prior waiting for bail.Will probably get time served.Hard way to get a free flight to the states.He is weird.

I read in one of the news accounts that the penalty is one year and $2,500 for each count for which he is convicted.

He is facing 5 separate charges of kiddie porn and the additional unlawful flight to avoid prosecution charge. After all the publicity, I don't think he is going to be on the streets in 6 months.

[Thaiquila]

He may be innocent of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, but he still faces charges in California.

Non felony charge in Calif.Max 1 yr.,he already served 5 months prior waiting for bail.Will probably get time served.Hard way to get a free flight to the states.He is weird.

I read in one of the news accounts that the penalty is one year and $2,500 for each count for which he is convicted.

He is facing 5 separate charges of kiddie porn and the additional unlawful flight to avoid prosecution charge. After all the publicity, I don't think he is going to be on the streets in 6 months.

Pardon my naivete, but excuuuuuuuuuse me, can someone explain the LOGIC of subjecting this man to a more severe than usual penalty just because of his fame? After all, he was not only found innocent of the only reason he was dragged back to the states, but was never even charged. It is absurd to imagine he did this to get a free flight home, even considering his madness. Free flight home to what? Jail? BTW, the Cali officials have made it quite clear they would have NEVER extradited a person with those minor charges from overseas.

Sounds like a witch hunt mentality to me, as that witch guy mentioned before.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[jdinasia]

He may be innocent of the murder of JonBenet Ramsey, but he still faces charges in California.

Non felony charge in Calif.Max 1 yr.,he already served 5 months prior waiting for bail.Will probably get time served.Hard way to get a free flight to the states.He is weird.

I read in one of the news accounts that the penalty is one year and $2,500 for each count for which he is convicted.

He is facing 5 separate charges of kiddie porn and the additional unlawful flight to avoid prosecution charge. After all the publicity, I don't think he is going to be on the streets in 6 months.

Pardon my naivete, but excuuuuuuuuuse me, can someone explain the LOGIC of subjecting this man to a more severe than usual penalty just because of his fame? After all, he was not only found innocent of the only reason he was dragged back to the states, but was never even charged. It is absurd to imagine he did this to get a free flight home, even considering his madness. Free flight home to what? Jail? BTW, the Cali officials have made it quite clear they would have NEVER extradited a person with those minor charges from overseas.

Sounds like a witch hunt mentality to me, as that witch guy mentioned before.

He wasn't 'dragged back to the states' ..... nor was he 'found innocent' and yes he was charged. Yes I do think he rates getting the Max .... as stated before due to his flight from prosecution!

[Thaiquila]

Explain to me how he was "charged" when they are not pursuing prosecution?

True, he was not found innocent, but has the presumption of innocence just the same as you do for that murder.

Legally, both Karr and you are in the exact same boat in regards to the JB murder.

Do you still think he has something to do with that murder?

Of course, he was dragged back to the states. What else would you call an involuntary deportation and being in the custody of cops?

Again, his flight charge is legally a minor charge, no matter how many exclamation points you use. If you don't like California law, move to California, and get active in changing the legislature there.

I don't know if this will be a jury trial matter or not for Mr. Karr, but if it is, I am sure the defense will do all it can to eliminate witch hunt mentality jurors like Mr. JD. He should be treated like any other defendant, period.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[jdinasia]

Explain to me how he was "charged" when they are not pursuing prosecution?

True, he was not found innocent, but has the presumption of innocence just the same as you do for that murder.

Legally, both Karr and you are in the exact same boat in regards to the JB murder.

Do you still think he has something to do with that murder?

Of course, he was dragged back to the states. What else would you call an involuntary deportation and being in the custody of cops?

Again, his flight charge are legally minor charges, no matter how many exclamation points you use.

Yet again you either have not read the thread or the papers ... or are just intentionally minimizing the situation again! a link from above ......

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/08/28/k...ot.to.quash.pdf

yes that is the motion to quash an arrest warrant. Read it ... get down to 14 and 15 and tell me whether he should have been arrested RIGHT THEN!

As for the "dragged off" --- I do not believe that he was under arrest at the time he boarded the plane just in the company of the kind people that PAID to get him out of the internment in BKK.

No Legally Karr and I are NOT in the same boat! You can't be that thick! Karr made claims to have killed JBR ... in emails and on TV and in person in front of the police from multiple jurisdictions!

again if spending a year in jail is minor to you ....... the they are all minor charges! I am so glad to see that you think this is all minor! and that a year in county jail is minor! and that possession of KP (that today could give a 15 year sentence) is minor!

Edited August 30, 2006 by jdinasia

[Thaiquila]

You are NOW legally in the same boat in regards to the JB murder.

He made false confessions which put him under suspicion, but he is no longer under suspicion, SAME as you.

You are very emotional about this and would make a horrible juror, I am only citing the California law he is subject to, and what I have read is the usual slap on the wrist consequences in California for such charges. Why does he deserve anything but the usual consequences?

His trial in Cali has NOTHING to do with the JB murder, get it now?

There is also a chance he might not be convicted of these charges, but he clearly will be convicted of the flight charge.

Not sure about the exact legalities, but he was kicked out of Thailand and forced to board that plane udner guard. Call that not being dragged, it is what it is. I suspect if that happened to you, you would call it being moved against your will.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[jdinasia]

I editted my post ... above

If he is not convicted then fine ... yet again you minimize a year in county jail. and again flight from prosecution almost invariably means you get the max when convicted!

When he was deported AND when he was arrested and now ... I am not in the same position legally as Karr.

No comment on the charges?

Edited August 30, 2006 by jdinasia

[Thaiquila]

I editted my post ... above

If he is not convicted then fine ... yet again you minimize a year in county jail. and again flight from prosecution almost invariably means you get the max when convicted!

So you are a lawyer from California then? I doubt it. Otherwise, you are only speculating.

I read those items before and as I said before, the THAI officials should have been contacted about that, and it was up to the Thai officials to decide how to deal with a farang in Thailand. There was never any reason to deport Carr on the JB charge; they could have easily got any kind of DNA sample they wanted. In fact, they already had one which tested negative.

If you asking me if he should have been fired from any teaching job? YES, of course. He is mad. But apparantly he is not a murderer and still no hard evidence of actual sex act crimes in his entire life.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[jdinasia]

I editted my post ... above

If he is not convicted then fine ... yet again you minimize a year in county jail. and again flight from prosecution almost invariably means you get the max when convicted!

So you are a lawyer from California then? I doubt it. Otherwise, you are only speculating.

I read those items before and as I said before, the THAI officials should have been contacted about that, and it was up to the Thai officials to decide how to deal with a farang in Thailand. There was never any reason to deport Carr on the JB charge; they could have easily got any kind of DNA sample they wanted. In fact, they already had one which tested negative.

If you asking me if he should have been fired from any teaching job? YES, of course. He is mad. But apparantly he is not a murderer and still no hard evidence of actual sex act crimes in his entire life.

Again ...minimizing and defending the indefensible! If you read those things then you saw the charges If you saw the charges then you'd get it! The Thai officials WERE contacted. They made their own decisions. A VERY easy decision to make when you have a guy that has fled from prosecution on child pornography charges living in your country and teaching children. That doesnt even count at all what was related to JBR. The fact that the a gov't agency paid his way back has little to do with anything. When people are deported thay are typically deported to the country of origin. Karr got lucky not rotting in IDC until someone paid his way back to the US. The US gotlucky that we didn't have to have someone sitting on IDC and following him out! The WORLD got lucky that he didn't get out and on a plane bound for the USA and then hop off in Japan or Taipei! They COULD have excluded him on DNA .... MAYBE ... while he was in Thailand ... but frankly I am greatful that he's back in the USA with you and NOT IN THAILAND!

as for being a lawyer in Cali? No

Speculation? not exactly! Informed opinion based upon life experience (Family in the Biz ... a friend is a Judge ... godfather was a lawyer etc etc)

But then all of what you say would be speculation too!

So ... is a year in county jail as a someone convicted of a sexcrime against children a minor thing? Particularly if you look like Karr?

[Thaiquila]

You are so emotional about this.

He might get some time in jail in Cali, probably likely.

He also will be protected from murder quite well, they have special programs for high profile prisoners.

And he will get rich.

You see, your method has made him a rich and famous man, which is what he wanted.

My way, you would have never heard of him, and yes, Thailand would most likely have deported him anyway.

I think the way it was done was silly, and I also very much resent the unfair coverage of Thailand resulting from this circus, something you don't seem to care about.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[jdinasia]

LOL ... yah he'll get jail time!

Protected? Not likely at all! Dahlmer was in PC when he died. The cons won't care that he didn't actually kill JBR they'll kill him based upon what they know about him. Rich? not likely at all!

[Thaiquila]

LOL ... yah he'll get jail time!

Protected? Not likely at all! Dahlmer was in PC when he died. The cons won't care that he didn't actually kill JBR they'll kill him based upon what they know about him. Rich? not likely at all!

We shall see. I bet he gets small jail time, doesn't get murdered, and gets rich (I heard there is already a movie deal in the works). There is no law to stop him from profiting from the JB case because he did not commit that crime.

It is a proven fact Americans will pay good money to watch train wrecks.

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[jdinasia]

Cool .... I'll put a bottle of 100 Pipers on the fact that he does well over 1 year in Cali jail, a bottle of LaoKhao that he doesn't survive 5 years into the future, and a bottle of beer that he doesn't make any REAL dosh on this!

Of course you'll have to come to Thailand to collect if I am wrong

[Ijustwannateach]

Hmmm... I'm eating popcorn as I read this thread... and find I don't come down on either "side" firmly so far. I've been convinced by the speakers so far that:

1. I *am* glad he's not in Thailand anymore.

2. I don't think anyone deserves killing for basically being mildly mad. Jeffrey Dahmer he ain't!

3. I don't think he *deserves* a harsh sentence for what little he has demonstrably done- but I don't think politically the courts can *avoid* one.

4. If he survives- and remains relatively sane- I think he might make a little cash off his fame. It would only slightly offset his being permanently unemployable anywhere forever.

"Steven"

[Thaiquila]

I do think he is a huge suicide risk. He clearly believes the crazy things he says and the world might be bursting his crazy bubble. There will be lots of money made on his story, whether he is savvy enough to get a chunk of it is another matter. That's entertainment.

The only betting I do is in the stock market!

Edited August 30, 2006 by Thaiquila

[Considered Opinion]

I agree that just because he's three bricks short of a two brick load doesn't merit hanging him. But I suspect if he does any jail or prison time, it'll be in isolation. I'm sure there are a number of prisoners who would be more than happy to introduce him to 'prison justice'.

Prison Justice for what? Being an American nutter?

[Thaiquila]

I agree that just because he's three bricks short of a two brick load doesn't merit hanging him. But I suspect if he does any jail or prison time, it'll be in isolation. I'm sure there are a number of prisoners who would be more than happy to introduce him to 'prison justice'.

Prison Justice for what? Being an American nutter?

In US prisons, being in for a pedo charge is the lowest status among the crims, and the murder rate for the "short eyes" is high. A child porn charge would be considered a pedo charge, so he would be at high risk for murder. The murder rate in US prisons is quite high, and we imprison one of the highest percentage of our citizens in the world. Cheers.

[Chua]

Boulder DA admits Karr's champagne flight cost $6000 USD ( 220,000 Baht)

Want a free business class flight to the US? Just claim you murdered JonBenet Ramsey...

The Boulder District Attorney's office on Thursday said it spent $23,656 USD (about 860,000 Baht) investigating John Mark Karr.

A DNA test found no match between Karr and the DNA from the Ramsey crime scene. No explanation was given as to why Karr's DNA sample was not taken while he was still in Thai custody. A DNA test could have been completed in Thailand, or the sample sent to the US via an overnight carrier for about $40 USD, about 1500 Baht.

The tab included nearly $6,000 for business class tickets to fly the former suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey case and an investigator back from Bangkok, Thailand.

An outline of expenses shows the 15-hour flight from Thailand, on which Karr sipped champagne, dined on fried king prawns and roast duck, cost the county $5,925.

A message left at District Attorney Mary Lacy's office was not immediately returned.

The second largest expense in the DA's investigation was $10,010 in hourly wages paid to investigator Mark Spray.

Karr was cleared last week in the 1996 murder of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey and remained jailed in Boulder, Colorado\, awaiting extradition to California to face child porn charges. A Boulder judge ruled last week that authorities had until Wednesday to return Karr to Sonoma County.

The prosecutor's office said it has spent $40,755 on the unsolved slaying since taking the case from Boulder police and reopening the investigation in December 2002.

The figure includes more than $16,000 spent in 2003, when Lacy endorsed a federal judge's declaration that an intruder, not JonBenet's parents, killed the child.

[Laulen]

Chua, if they do make a movie of John Karr's life up to now, I would suggest that they will display all that is undesirable, embarrassing, and illegal in the States and particularly in LOS.

This will lead to yet another ban 'by the Thai authorities' on a Western-financed movie that fails to take into account Thai cultural sensitivities. Well, how else could you write a film script about a crazy alleged child molester without alluding to the seamier side of Thai life?

Laulen

[John K]

Prosecutor finds lost data in Karr case

By KIM CURTIS, Associated Press Writer

SANTA ROSA, Calif. - Investigators found a version of lost computer data containing child pornography evidence against former JonBenet Ramsey suspect John Mark Karr, a prosecutor said Friday.

"A late-breaking development," Judge Cerena Wong said at the start of a hearing on whether five misdemeanor counts dating from 2001 should be dismissed against Karr.

The find of computer data, announced by Sonoma County prosecutor Joann Risse, came two days after Risse had said that Karr's computer hard drive and a copy of the contents were missing. Earlier, the Sonoma County Sheriff's Department had said they lost Karr's computer.

Defense lawyer Gayle Gutekunst had told the judge Wednesday that she has no way to properly defend Karr nor would prosecutors be able to make a case against him because "the crime scene is gone."

Karr was not required to be in court and was absent from the hearing.

The 41-year-old former schoolteacher was arrested in Thailand last month after suggesting he killed JonBenet, a 6-year-old beauty queen, in her Boulder, Colo., home in 1996. He was returned to the U.S., but the Ramsey case quickly collapsed after DNA failed to connect him to the crime.

Karr had been arrested in California in 2001 on five misdemeanor counts of possession of child pornography. Three hard drives, a laptop computer, diskettes and a zip drive were seized from Karr's home at the time of the arrest. He fled before the trial.

When he was returned to California from Colorado, Karr rejected a plea deal that would have allowed him to walk out of jail free if he agreed to plead guilty to two of the five charges, serve three years of probation and register as a sex offender.

He is being held on $200,000 bail because he is considered a flight risk.

Investigators testified earlier this week that they've discovered more child pornography on 100 diskettes, CDs and a removable disk drive taken from Karr in 2001. But Wong said the testimony was irrelevant because Karr has not been charged with any crime in connection with those images.

[pascharay]

Off to jail for Karr - kiddie porn charges in CA and course jumping bail. Prob get a movie/book deal now.

he didn't have to jump bail.

California cops lost his computer.

More than likely these charges will be dropped too.

[astral]

California cops lost his computer.

It certainly breaks the "chain of evidence" rendering its use in court, unsound.

Which will mean the whole sad story was a storm in a teacup,

and a sad endictment of the Thai and US justice systems.

[John K]

Well this is over now that all charges have been dropped including the porn ones. I wonder if he will go back to Thailand now.

[a2]

Case closed.