Thai former PM Yingluck to face trial over rice scheme: court

[Cuchulainn]

Time to get shot of this whole corrupt tribe.

1 down, 1 in the dock and lots more to go.

Sigh.

[JoeLing]

If there is anything that will guarantee no reconciliation it's taking YL to trail over this. It's vindictive and misguided.

I refuse to believe she profited from any of this or ever had any intention to profit from it...why would she...she already has enough money. I also will not believe she did anything with malicious intent and those are the only reasons she should be found guilty if either of those two can be proved beyond any doubt. She might be blamed for poor judgement, for being naive, for not listening or not acting fast enough or just not being very bright, but none of those are jail-able offenses. This is simply an out-of-control, rabid government out to get Thaksin anyway they can and if that means putting his sister in jail in lieu of him then that is what they will do.

The charge is negligence and not corruption. There are no evidence connecting her to corruption. If negligence was the charge, then there are a laundry list of past PMs that have schemes mired in corruption. The Thai Khen Khaeg which cost 1.49T B by Ahbisit, Chuan's Phuket land corruption and even Chavalit financial crisis debacle were result of negligence. The Supreme Court has the responsibility to accept the case and the verdict will tell if this is another purge attempt on the Shins or if proper due process of law was practiced, rule her not guilty.

Whatever anyone else did or didn't do isn't worth chicken shit. This case is about Yingluck and the way she managed her flagship rice financing scheme, to which she appointed herself chairperson.

She says on FB, or at least her ghost writers do, that she always acted honestly as PM.

Eric, do you believe that to be the case, that Yingluck always acted honestly, which means always told the truth too?

I'm absolutely convinced she always did the best according to her knowledge

Off course she always acted honestly and said the truth but it's Thai honesty,

it's Thai truth and should you not quite understand it, some kind of obscure,

clear clarification will follow.

Edited March 19, 2015 by JoeLing

[Eric Loh]

If there is anything that will guarantee no reconciliation it's taking YL to trail over this. It's vindictive and misguided.

I refuse to believe she profited from any of this or ever had any intention to profit from it...why would she...she already has enough money. I also will not believe she did anything with malicious intent and those are the only reasons she should be found guilty if either of those two can be proved beyond any doubt. She might be blamed for poor judgement, for being naive, for not listening or not acting fast enough or just not being very bright, but none of those are jail-able offenses. This is simply an out-of-control, rabid government out to get Thaksin anyway they can and if that means putting his sister in jail in lieu of him then that is what they will do.

The charge is negligence and not corruption. There are no evidence connecting her to corruption. If negligence was the charge, then there are a laundry list of past PMs that have schemes mired in corruption. The Thai Khen Khaeg which cost 1.49T B by Ahbisit, Chuan's Phuket land corruption and even Chavalit financial crisis debacle were result of negligence. The Supreme Court has the responsibility to accept the case and the verdict will tell if this is another purge attempt on the Shins or if proper due process of law was practiced, rule her not guilty.

Whatever anyone else did or didn't do isn't worth chicken shit. This case is about Yingluck and the way she managed her flagship rice financing scheme, to which she appointed herself chairperson.

She says on FB, or at least her ghost writers do, that she always acted honestly as PM.

Eric, do you believe that to be the case, that Yingluck always acted honestly, which means always told the truth too?

No it's not chicken shit. It's selective punishment. It's kangaroo court and a well laid out plan from the start to get rid of the Shin. I would also add double standard and bias courts. What will be fair will be the court verdict of not guilty or the corruption agencies pursue the other corruption filled schemes. Oh, by the way, I believe she acted honestly too. Of course you disagree and that's your prerogative. I have taken my stand.

[jdinasia]

She is being tried for neglecting corruption that occurred under a scheme she was in charge of. Which she is probably guilty.

But, not one case of corruption has been taken to court and proven! Why not?? For her to be guilty in a normal court then the corruption would already have to be proven.

Why is this country so backward?

That would have been a great post if you had stopped after the word "guilty" the first time you used it.

Where do you start in a case like this? The negligence and her failure to prevent the corruption in a program she was directly in charge of seems like a good place to begin.

Each of the other cases require individual proof of corruption, while the negligence case just requires the pattern to be provable. She was in charge not just for the benefit of the people who reaped profit at the expense of the country, and not just for the people who voted for PTP.(which is what she said)

Proving that a warehouse operator was corrupt would not be proof of the case against Yingluck. Proving the pattern of the losses is enough. Proving that officials in the program bought rice illegally imported doesn't prove the case against her... etc

Cut the head off the beast and then chop up the parts.

[jdinasia]

If there is anything that will guarantee no reconciliation it's taking YL to trail over this. It's vindictive and misguided.

I refuse to believe she profited from any of this or ever had any intention to profit from it...why would she...she already has enough money. I also will not believe she did anything with malicious intent and those are the only reasons she should be found guilty if either of those two can be proved beyond any doubt. She might be blamed for poor judgement, for being naive, for not listening or not acting fast enough or just not being very bright, but none of those are jail-able offenses. This is simply an out-of-control, rabid government out to get Thaksin anyway they can and if that means putting his sister in jail in lieu of him then that is what they will do.

The charge is negligence and not corruption. There are no evidence connecting her to corruption. If negligence was the charge, then there are a laundry list of past PMs that have schemes mired in corruption. The Thai Khen Khaeg which cost 1.49T B by Ahbisit, Chuan's Phuket land corruption and even Chavalit financial crisis debacle were result of negligence. The Supreme Court has the responsibility to accept the case and the verdict will tell if this is another purge attempt on the Shins or if proper due process of law was practiced, rule her not guilty.

Whatever anyone else did or didn't do isn't worth chicken shit. This case is about Yingluck and the way she managed her flagship rice financing scheme, to which she appointed herself chairperson.

She says on FB, or at least her ghost writers do, that she always acted honestly as PM.

Eric, do you believe that to be the case, that Yingluck always acted honestly, which means always told the truth too?

No it's not chicken shit. It's selective punishment. It's kangaroo court and a well laid out plan from the start to get rid of the Shin. I would also add double standard and bias courts. What will be fair will be the court verdict of not guilty or the corruption agencies pursue the other corruption filled schemes. Oh, by the way, I believe she acted honestly too. Of course you disagree and that's your prerogative. I have taken my stand.

You have taken your stand....

If the rice scam lost tons of money and she was in charge, and those losses were lied about, and there was corruption... She's guilty.

[maidee]

time to join big brother

[PilotEd]

"Yet his influence persists in Thai politics, with Shinawatra-allied parties drawing the loyalty of the rural north as well as urban working-class voters for their populist policies.

But Thaksin is loathed by much of the country's royalist elite, which is backed by parts of the military and judiciary."

And there is the situation in a nut shell. This is just another case of the have's versus the have nots.

[jdinasia]

"Yet his influence persists in Thai politics, with Shinawatra-allied parties drawing the loyalty of the rural north as well as urban working-class voters for their populist policies.

But Thaksin is loathed by much of the country's royalist elite, which is backed by parts of the military and judiciary."

And there is the situation in a nut shell. This is just another case of the have's versus the have nots.

LOL,

Yingluck is certainly a "haves" and the people she is responsible for being negligent to are the people of Thailand.

[welshissan]

The Shinawatras, or parties allied to them, have won every Thai election since 2001.

Yes; and EVERY Thai Election since 2001 was fraught with te vast occurance of VOTE-BUYING by the Shinawatras ! ! !

"As prime minister I was always honest and served the Thai people, who voted for my government. I have confidence in democracy," she said.

NO; therwas little eveidence of Honesty and that Democracy is a word that the manilulating & VOTE-BUYING Shinawatras should NEVER utter, because they dont now the true meaning if Democracy, neither do they give a damn about Democracy !

Puangthong Pawakapan, a Thai politics expert at Chulalongkorn University, said the charges against Yingluck were an example of history repeating itself.

"It's quite clear the elite want to force out the Shinawatras from politics," she told AFP.

No; Khun Puangthong: its all the Thinking Thais who want to force out the Shinawatras from politics, for the reasons as stated above !

I like the way that you highlight the words that include vote buying etc.

Do you think that this is a red only policy?

Didn't Mark say that the yellows/democrats spent more on vote buying than the reds?

I lived in the south for many along year and I saw more corruption and vote buying there than I have seen in the north.

Where do you live? In the same yellow tower as a lot of people on here.

Once again I state " I am not a redshirt supporter " I like to read factual comments and not fiction from those with selective memories, either red or yellow, thank you

[gemguy]

The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

I more or less see it that way also.

The important question is:

Is there any other political party that can stand up to and or oppose the long established loyalists and elitists and their military cohorts that ran the country for nearly 50 years or more with no opposition of any significance while they continue to intervene when ever it suits their agenda.

Many people want to see the Shins eliminated and or hold them accountable for all the political malfeasance occurring on their part...amongst other things.

However if the political opposition is effectively subdued or possibly eliminated then I can not see how that is going to benefit the majority of Thais who voted for the Red party and Thaksin because it was the first and only party to seriously oppose the status quo.

So...who is going to be there to carry on the opposition that is needed to keep the yellow party in check and all the political shenanigans that they pull off when they are in power.

Cheers

[sambum]

The date of the first hearing is interesting.

As usual - speaking in riddles waiting for someone to bite!

[jdinasia]

The date of the first hearing is interesting.

As usual - speaking in riddles waiting for someone to bite!

If May 19th means nothing to you I am afraid that the entire topic may also be beyond you.

[robblok]

She is being tried for neglecting corruption that occurred under a scheme she was in charge of. Which she is probably guilty.

But, not one case of corruption has been taken to court and proven! Why not?? For her to be guilty in a normal court then the corruption would already have to be proven.

Why is this country so backward?

Misinformation.. Boonsong and others are tried for corruption in the rice scheme with fake G2G deals.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/808924-boonsong-20-others-to-be-indicted-on-tuesday/

Edited March 19, 2015 by robblok

[Yann55]

Quote : But Thaksin is loathed by much of the country's royalist elite, which is backed by parts of the military and judiciary.

Wow... talk about over-simplifying... The AFP correspondent in BKK is obviously not the kind to be bothered with subtleties ... but actually I believe it's totally deliberate because it's not the first time I notice that he/she never misses a chance to mis-represent the people who don't support the Shins in this country and to turn the other side into a tragic caricature.

Again and again, he (or she) has made it sound like this country is under hard military rule, a kind of Pinochet-style dictatorship, that 'opposition' in Thailand is crushed and possibly thrown in jail, and of course that the overthrown government was a perfectly legitimate, 'democratically elected' one.

I don't know if i'm the only one here, but so much one-sided crap by a so called journalist makes me puke. Shame on him/her for ridiculing his/her profession thus and using his/her position to spread such blatant and outrageous misinformation.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Yann55

[AleG]

She claimed that the rice pledging scheme was the wish of the people and her government responded in kind to help out rice farmers who had always been exploited by the middlemen and who had never had a chance to dictate the prices of their own products.

How nice, then what did her (brother's) party do? Exploit the farmers by getting their votes through unrealistic promises so that they could dictated the prices of their products.

When this spherical stupidity (spherical because it was a stupid from whichever angle you looked at it) of a scheme collapsed under its own weight, what happened to those that were duped out of their votes? they got screwed good and thoroughly, that's what happened.

Well, done, thank you three times.

[BlackJack]

maybe the heading should read brother throws sister under bus

[Yann55]

She claimed that the rice pledging scheme was the wish of the people and her government responded in kind to help out rice farmers who had always been exploited by the middlemen and who had never had a chance to dictate the prices of their own products.

How nice, then what did her (brother's) party do? Exploit the farmers by getting their votes through unrealistic promises so that they could dictated the prices of their products.

When this spherical stupidity (spherical because it was a stupid from whichever angle you looked at it) of a scheme collapsed under its own weight, what happened to those that were duped out of their votes? they got screwed good and thoroughly, that's what happened.

Well, done, thank you three times.

I love that 'spherical stupidity'... lol, great expression, thanks !

I totally agree with your comment of course. Trying to blame the bad bad 'middlemen' is such a show of demagogy, so typically Thaksin...

Trade is about buying and selling, and it's very rare for the producer to sell to the end-user directly, for all kinds of perfectly obvious reasons, so yes, trade involves middlemen, thousands of different kinds, of whom some are honest, some are not, some are reasonable and others over-greedy, human beings doing business with what they are and what the rules offer them...

It's called capitalism, and capitalism (coupled with cunning politics) is how the Shin clan made their enormous fortune in the first place. No consideration for the little guy in the process because it's simply not compatible with getting so immensely rich, no problem then being the middleman ...

Oh the gross hypocrisy of all this...

Edited March 19, 2015 by Yann55

[Daniel Ingalls]

........Just freeze her bank accounts, pull her Passport, and kick her ass in the klong......Its the sub-prime ministers

that did all the bad deeds, She is simply a victim who lost control, and the little munkskins took advantage of an opportunity to screw the farmers out of money. I'd hate to see such a pretty lady end up in jail/ prison. Not a very

nice place for a lady. Put her under house arrest. and bar from any Government job for the rest of her life.

[thesetat2013]

I think we should have a poll - will she do a runner or not

Forget the poll..... This is good for betting..can someone place the odds on when or if she runs......if only gambling was legal here heheeee....

[jdinasia]

The Shinawatras, or parties allied to them, have won every Thai election since 2001.

Yes; and EVERY Thai Election since 2001 was fraught with te vast occurance of VOTE-BUYING by the Shinawatras ! ! !

"As prime minister I was always honest and served the Thai people, who voted for my government. I have confidence in democracy," she said.

NO; therwas little eveidence of Honesty and that Democracy is a word that the manilulating & VOTE-BUYING Shinawatras should NEVER utter, because they dont now the true meaning if Democracy, neither do they give a damn about Democracy !

Puangthong Pawakapan, a Thai politics expert at Chulalongkorn University, said the charges against Yingluck were an example of history repeating itself.

"It's quite clear the elite want to force out the Shinawatras from politics," she told AFP.

No; Khun Puangthong: its all the Thinking Thais who want to force out the Shinawatras from politics, for the reasons as stated above !

I like the way that you highlight the words that include vote buying etc.

Do you think that this is a red only policy?

Didn't Mark say that the yellows/democrats spent more on vote buying than the reds?

I lived in the south for many along year and I saw more corruption and vote buying there than I have seen in the north.

Where do you live? In the same yellow tower as a lot of people on here.

Once again I state " I am not a redshirt supporter " I like to read factual comments and not fiction from those with selective memories, either red or yellow, thank you

"Didn't Mark say..."

Please let us know when you find him saying that the Democrats spent more (or mentioned "the yellows" buying votes.

[jdinasia]

Quote : But Thaksin is loathed by much of the country's royalist elite, which is backed by parts of the military and judiciary.

Wow... talk about over-simplifying... The AFP correspondent in BKK is obviously not the kind to be bothered with subtleties ... but actually I believe it's totally deliberate because it's not the first time I notice that he/she never misses a chance to mis-represent the people who don't support the Shins in this country and to turn the other side into a tragic caricature.

Again and again, he (or she) has made it sound like this country is under hard military rule, a kind of Pinochet-style dictatorship, that 'opposition' in Thailand is crushed and possibly thrown in jail, and of course that the overthrown government was a perfectly legitimate, 'democratically elected' one.

I don't know if i'm the only one here, but so much one-sided crap by a so called journalist makes me puke. Shame on him/her for ridiculing his/her profession thus and using his/her position to spread such blatant and outrageous misinformation.

Look at all of the AFP articles about Thai politics for years and years, you will see the same exact wording..

[jdinasia]

........Just freeze her bank accounts, pull her Passport, and kick her ass in the klong......Its the sub-prime ministers

that did all the bad deeds, She is simply a victim who lost control, and the little munkskins took advantage of an opportunity to screw the farmers out of money. I'd hate to see such a pretty lady end up in jail/ prison. Not a very

nice place for a lady. Put her under house arrest. and bar from any Government job for the rest of her life.

Yingluck isn't the victim of the corruption. She was responsible to make sure that it didn't happen since she was the chair of the National Rice Policy Committee.

[jesimps]

In my personal opinion I would accept not bringing her to trial if she would just go on television and tell the Thai people these points:

• Look, I"'m not that intelligent anyhow, and even though I had my doubts about this Rice deal no one ever TOLD me it was a scam.
• Anyhow, my brother told me to do it and I had to do what he told me.
• And anyhow, I was just the Deputy Prime Minister , it was always my brother running the show anyhow.
• So please don't send me to jail.

If she would say that I would forgive her.

Let's just call an admission of guilt on the grounds of "diminished capability" because she was not intelligent enough to know how she was being scammed by others.

She will never say any of those things because none of them are true. The rice scheme was meant to subsidise the price of rice for the farmers, the government were expected to lose money on it that's what subsidies are about. Look at the British NHS, makes the rice scheme losses look like a drop in the ocean. I'm sure there was corruption involving some people, but this is Thailand what do you expect?

The PM couldn't be expected to monitor every stage of the scheme, it would be a physical impossibility, she had to rely on other people. If they let her down then charge them instead. As yet, I don't think anyone else has been charged with anything which suggests to me that it's part of the plan to remove the Shinawatras from politics and nothing more. If it hadn't been the rice scheme they'd have trumped up some other charge.

She'll be there in court to fight the charges, she won't run, she has too much class and dignity for that, unlike most of her opponents. Good luck madam.

Edited March 19, 2015 by jesimps

[Ducking and]

It has been convincingly put to me in the past that the problem in Thailand is an uneducated (for which read "stupid") majority in the electorate. For a democratic society to work, the vast majority of the people must be sensible enough to understand the simpler things, in this case that you (taxpayers) cannot give away more than the taxes etc you receive, and that people who get elected on promises to do just that, and worse still do not do an about turn when they get elected (yes, that does require immense political courage, and the Shinawatras have never shown any of that). Bankrupting the nation was ably demonstrated even by the front page erudition of the Bangkok Post at the time, was going to be the inevitable result of the rice pledging scheme. Now, in every country bankrupting the nation is something poor and uneducated people are generally very happy to do in return for small short-term gain. (Greece a prime example.) They have nothing. So what have they got to lose?

What always puzzled me was what the Shinawatras thought they would get out of it? They are certainly not stupid. The only credible explanation I have heard is that the longer they remained in power the more time they had for their family, relations etc. - Pongpat and all the others - to become "unusually rich" (for which read: corruptly extract money wherever their power enabled them to do so) and secrete the money (or much of it) out of the country, and later on follow the super-clever Thaksin example by going abroad and enjoying it when the need might arise. That seems so distastefully offensive to the morals of every society, can that really be so? Is there any other explanation which can be convincingly argued?

[jdinasia]

In my personal opinion I would accept not bringing her to trial if she would just go on television and tell the Thai people these points:

• Look, I"'m not that intelligent anyhow, and even though I had my doubts about this Rice deal no one ever TOLD me it was a scam.
• Anyhow, my brother told me to do it and I had to do what he told me.
• And anyhow, I was just the Deputy Prime Minister , it was always my brother running the show anyhow.
• So please don't send me to jail.

If she would say that I would forgive her.

Let's just call an admission of guilt on the grounds of "diminished capability" because she was not intelligent enough to know how she was being scammed by others.

She will never say any of those things because none of them are true. The rice scheme was meant to subsidise the price of rice for the farmers, the government were expected to lose money on it that's what subsidies are about. Look at the British NHS, makes the rice scheme losses look like a drop in the ocean. I'm sure there was corruption involving some people, but this is Thailand what do you expect?

The PM couldn't be expected to monitor every stage of the scheme, it would be a physical impossibility, she had to rely on other people. If they let her down then charge them instead. As yet, I don't think anyone else has been charged with anything which suggests to me that it's part of the plan to remove the Shinawatras from politics and nothing more. If it hadn't been the rice scheme they'd have trumped up some other charge.

She'll be there in court to fight the charges, she won't run, she has too much class and dignity for that, unlike most of her opponents. Good luck madam.

Incorrect, after the first funding for the rice scam it was supposed to be self funding through sales. The government (with her as PM) hid the losses.

As for her dignity? Well Abhisit and Suthep have stuck around. Her brother ran.

Others have been charged.

The Chair of the National Rice Policy Committee is certainly expected to know what is happening with the rice scam. To fail to monitor the program you put yourself in charge of, is certainly negligence.

[dukebowling]

Never heard of the "negligence over a bungled rice subsidy scheme" article of criminal law. Is that a new law was also retroactively passed?

​Talk about rewriting law…i guess they rewrote the constitution on the fly, so this is not too far from that.

​The courts better get ready for the influx of "negligence" charges, because everyone is guilty of that...

Edited March 19, 2015 by dukebowling

[ddavidovsky]

Astonishing that there are people around here who still think this is all about fighting corruption.

[jdinasia]

Never heard of the "negligence over a bungled rice subsidy scheme" article of criminal law. Is that a new law was also retroactively passed?

​Talk about rewriting law…i guess they rewrote the constitution on the fly, so this is not too far from that.

​The courts better get ready for the influx of "negligence" charges, because everyone is guilty of that...

The law isn't new.

[Basil B]

The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr.

Dragging out the persecution or prosecution, depending upon's one view, will keep her name in the news and build sympathy for her.

No good will come of this. It is a recipe for civil disorder and will undermine the current military rulers' position. The courts are not seen as impartial, nor free of political interference from the military regime. A conviction, which appears to be preordained, will be treated accordingly. I genuinely fear the consequences of this as I believe that the majority of Thais will not support it. Despite what many foreigners assume about Thai people, they still have a soft spot for her.

"The military government seems intent on making the deposed PM a martyr."

Well off the mark...

They want to prove to people just how corrupt the Shinawatra clan is.

[Ducking and]

whistling.gif In my personal opinion I would accept not bringing her to trial if she would just go on television and tell the Thai people these points:

Look, I"'m not that intelligent anyhow, and even though I had my doubts about this Rice deal no one ever TOLD me it was a scam.

Anyhow, my brother told me to do it and I had to do what he told me.

And anyhow, I was just the Deputy Prime Minister , it was always my brother running the show anyhow.

So please don't send me to jail.

If she would say that I would forgive her.

Let's just call an admission of guilt on the grounds of "diminished capability" because she was not intelligent enough to know how she was being scammed by others.

IMA_FARANG deserves full marks for wit. And some perspicacity. But he does not bear in mind that nothing here is ever what it seems to be. Including Yingluk. She may be injudicious, she has done some amazing things (amazing, that's Thaiand) including even being willing to be a puppet to the international dishonour of the Thai people, but it might be very difficult to prove that she had diminished capability of achieving what SHE wanted. ... Though admittedly she was too slow to run when the chips were down. Unlike her brother. It was the voters who voted for her who decided she had the capability. And those Thais cannot have been wrong.