"concept Of Face" For Women

[kat]

Yes, good points Sheryl.

[sbk]

Where I think gender does occasionally kick in is where you need to be aware of things that would cause the man to lose face because of gender stereotypes. For example, it may be a loss of face for him if you pay the check openly (fine to slip him some money under the table or before or after; it is the public appearance that counts). And contradicting him in front of other people may cause loss of face -- this is not entirely a gender thing (openly contradicting anyone in public can be seen as a loss of face), but I think there is more sensitivity over a woman doing it to a man than vice versa or among persons of the same sex.

The extent to which these things are the case varies by individual and depends a lot on their social group, age etc. Will also vary depend upon who is present.

I think one just needs to be aware of the issue and sensitive to how the other person is feeling.

Agreed Sheryl, but don't you think these things could also be a sensitive issue for many western guys too? Not many people (male or female) like being shown up in public (esp by their partner) and many guys also prefer to be seen as the one paying. Maybe not so much in the younger generation (under 30) but it is still prevalent.

[bettyblaspheme]

Hehe, Thankyou so much everyone, this is all really helpful.

Sorry P'Kat for being sensitive/misunderstanding. Ive been slightly afraid to post here, because on alot of the sub-forums, there is, basically outright nastiness, but luckily, this particular sub-forum (i.e the ladies one) seems to be a little more sane. That did however lead me to be more sensitive than i usually would. So sorry!

Thankyou all for the excellent advice though!!

[kat]

No worries. You posted quite well, so don't be afraid to hold your ground.

[sbk]

betty, this is the Ladies forum and we mods (me and Boo) try to nip that particular kind of nastiness in the bud. Don't be afraid to post here, and if something does occur please be sure to use the report button at the bottom of the offending post. It will be reported to all the mods and if Boo or I aren't on the forum one of the guys will take care of it.

I agree with kat, good post, good question.

[Sheryl]

Where I think gender does occasionally kick in is where you need to be aware of things that would cause the man to lose face because of gender stereotypes. For example, it may be a loss of face for him if you pay the check openly (fine to slip him some money under the table or before or after; it is the public appearance that counts). And contradicting him in front of other people may cause loss of face -- this is not entirely a gender thing (openly contradicting anyone in public can be seen as a loss of face), but I think there is more sensitivity over a woman doing it to a man than vice versa or among persons of the same sex.

The extent to which these things are the case varies by individual and depends a lot on their social group, age etc. Will also vary depend upon who is present.

I think one just needs to be aware of the issue and sensitive to how the other person is feeling.

Agreed Sheryl, but don't you think these things could also be a sensitive issue for many western guys too? Not many people (male or female) like being shown up in public (esp by their partner) and many guys also prefer to be seen as the one paying. Maybe not so much in the younger generation (under 30) but it is still prevalent.

Yes, agree. I think the difference is more one of degree, with the "face" thing being stronger in Thailand than in the West and loss of face more devastating.

[Sarge]

Wow i didnt know i could piss so many people off (seemingly so deeply!) with 14 posts!

... Im an australian ..... however have some societal views....

To me, being a feminist isnt a bad thing, so yeah, im proud to be someone who wants equal rights for all humans regardless of gender (and actually that isnt politcally correct, sorry, politically correct is cautiously retaining the status quo...

.... that explains everything.

I'm curious to know how things will pan out in the end ... I mean a (traditional) Thai man with an Aussie, quite an odd mix. I never seen two sets of people and way of life so different than Thailand and Australia, they are poles apart. I'm not using the word "culture" as it's a totally alien concept for people down under.

This thread is fascinating …..