Ex-Democrat MP mocks 'tank-driven reform bodies'

[webfact]

Ex-Democrat MP mocks 'tank-driven reform bodies'
THE NATION

OUTSPOKEN Democrat Party politician Watchara Petthong yesterday criticised the "tank-driven" reform agencies appointed by the junta.

"The charter draft reflects the fact that Borwornsak [uwanno] wrote a better charter than he was instructed to write. Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha should not take heed of suggestions by this group of academics because the new charter, if approved, will widen the rift and push the country into an unwanted scenario in which the people stage rallies against the charter," he said.

"Prayut will have his hands tainted with blood,'' said Watchara, who is a former Democrat Party MP.

If the National Council for Peace and Order wants this charter draft, it should hold a public referendum. If the public votes to reject the charter draft, the PM should exercise his power under Article 44 to invoke another charter.

"Do not cling to power because this will lead to bloodshed,'' he said.

He raised 10 points in the charter draft that he disapproves of:

- Reducing the number of constituency MPs to 250, which he claimed was not right because each MP would have many people to take care of;

- Increasing the number of party-list MPs to 200, saying the "open list" would cause wrangling among candidates;

- Allowing a non-elected PM;

- A total of 200 senators will be indirectly elected;

- Senators have too much power and even the PM has to submit a list of Cabinet members for senators to screen;

- The PM can dissolve the House if a censure motion receives less than half of total votes;

- A new body will be set up to reduce the role of the Election Commission, paving the way for political interference;

- Merger of the Office of the Ombudsman and the National Human Rights Commission;

- Setting up a national reform committee that has the power to direct the government;

- Setting up the National Reform Mobilisation Assembly.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Ex-Democrat-MP-mocks-tank-driven-reform-bodies-30256546.html

-- The Nation 2015-03-23

[ExPratt]

I'm sure they will all listen to ths

[trogers]

When politicians behave like immature school kids, with narrow purpose and high self-interest, they need a strong hand of society to rein them in.

Our politicians do not behave like their mature counterpart in Japan. When caught doing wrong, a Japanese politician would resign, and may even commit suicide out of shame.

Ours have extremely thick skin and brazenly cling on to their posts, and often screaming out threats to those who exposes their bad deeds.

[Fat Haggis]

Please report for attitide adjustment 0530 tomorrow bring a toothbrush!!

[Strangebrew]

Please report for attitide adjustment 0530 tomorrow bring a toothbrush!!

You forgot the K-Y too lmao.

[Fat Haggis]

He's a dem no need for KY ?

[tbthailand]

Please report for attitide adjustment 0530 tomorrow bring a toothbrush!!

and six pair of underwear...

[geriatrickid]

Although I do not agree with some of the points, he does raise some valid concerns. He will be ignored.

It's a shame because similar sentiments come from other political groups. How can there be reconciliation and support for the changes if the changes are anti democratic and go against common sense?

It will be interesting to see if the indecisive and weak Abhisit will comment.

Edited March 23, 2015 by geriatrickid

[yellowboat]

If he is ignored, it will show a complete lack of consideration for a representative government and the Thai poeple

[h90]

Where has he been when the democrat government didn't do any reforms?

"Prayut will have his hands tainted with blood,'' said Watchara, who is a former Democrat Party MP.

If the National Council for Peace and Order wants this charter draft, it should hold a public referendum. If the public votes to reject the charter draft, the PM should exercise his power under Article 44 to invoke another charter.

"Do not cling to power because this will lead to bloodshed,'' he said.

So he treated them with violent protests?

- Reducing the number of constituency MPs to 250, which he claimed was not right because each MP would have many people to take care of;

Not enough place at the feeding trough?

- Increasing the number of party-list MPs to 200, saying the "open list" would cause wrangling among candidates;

yes that makes vote buying very difficult. elections without vote buying are unpredictable.....

- Allowing a non-elected PM;

What is the problem with that?

- Senators have too much power and even the PM has to submit a list of Cabinet members for senators to screen;

It is called checks and balance, not the winner takes it all.

- The PM can dissolve the House if a censure motion receives less than half of total votes;

What is the problem with it?

- A new body will be set up to reduce the role of the Election Commission, paving the way for political interference;

The Election Commission like it was did a very poor job, so some change is necessary.

- Setting up a national reform committee that has the power to direct the government;

- Setting up the National Reform Mobilisation Assembly.

No no reforms please.....

That sounds like a man is desperate to loose his income if there are reforms and less corruption. It more shows the Prayuth is doing it right.

soon all the political enemies will join hands, just to keep corruption possible....

[Fat Haggis]

All very well said and done H90 but WHO is keeping the military in check? Who is there to prevent an abuse of power?

Who makes surer they are checking the cheques and balances within the big green?

[geriatrickid]

Where has he been when the democrat government didn't do any reforms?

"Prayut will have his hands tainted with blood,'' said Watchara, who is a former Democrat Party MP.

If the National Council for Peace and Order wants this charter draft, it should hold a public referendum. If the public votes to reject the charter draft, the PM should exercise his power under Article 44 to invoke another charter.

"Do not cling to power because this will lead to bloodshed,'' he said.

So he treated them with violent protests?

- Reducing the number of constituency MPs to 250, which he claimed was not right because each MP would have many people to take care of;

Not enough place at the feeding trough?

- Increasing the number of party-list MPs to 200, saying the "open list" would cause wrangling among candidates;

yes that makes vote buying very difficult. elections without vote buying are unpredictable.....

- Allowing a non-elected PM;

What is the problem with that?

- Senators have too much power and even the PM has to submit a list of Cabinet members for senators to screen;

It is called checks and balance, not the winner takes it all.

- The PM can dissolve the House if a censure motion receives less than half of total votes;

What is the problem with it?

- A new body will be set up to reduce the role of the Election Commission, paving the way for political interference;

The Election Commission like it was did a very poor job, so some change is necessary.

- Setting up a national reform committee that has the power to direct the government;

- Setting up the National Reform Mobilisation Assembly.

No no reforms please.....

That sounds like a man is desperate to loose his income if there are reforms and less corruption. It more shows the Prayuth is doing it right.

soon all the political enemies will join hands, just to keep corruption possible....

Hold on to your bonnets as I am about to defend a Democrat MP…...

He's not wrong on many issues.

Under a constitutional monarchy, the senior chamber does not approve Cabinet ministers. In fact I cannot think of any Commonwealth member states where the Queen is still head of state that this is done. Some countries were smart enough to do away with the senior chamber as it is an expensive waste. Yes, the senate has too much power. The senate is appointed by the ruling powers, which are currently the military. The former junta selected the senators too and they did everything possible to sabotage the Yingluck government. It works both ways. Former PTP appointed Senators caused grief for Abhisit. Who are these unelected political appointees to dictate to elected governments? The MP is trying to avoid continued fighting and sabotage.

Large constituencies do not allow for adequate representation. AN MP does a lot of constituency work, such as helping people resolve pension and benefits problems, mediating disputes,meeting with constituents and speaking to various groups. If the constituency is too large, then the MP can not function effectively.

Party list MPs are not democratic as they do not allow the voters to select their representatives. On the other hand they ensure that there is proportional representation. I don't like the concept because it leads to dysfunctional governments as seen in Thailand and Israel. However, I do understand why Thailand has it. All the MP is arguing for is that the numbers not be increased and that more emphasis be placed on allowing people to vote for their candidate.

I don't agree with everything he says, but it is unfair to accuse him of having a vested interest for monetary interests. he cares about Thailand.

[geriatrickid]

All very well said and done H90 but WHO is keeping the military in check? Who is there to prevent an abuse of power?

Who makes surer they are checking the cheques and balances within the big green?

The military is beyond reproach.

Do you want to be summoned for an attitude adjustment?

[yellowboat]

All very well said and done H90 but WHO is keeping the military in check? Who is there to prevent an abuse of power?

Who makes surer they are checking the cheques and balances within the big green?

The military is beyond reproach.

Do you want to be summoned for an attitude adjustment?

Are they beyond reproach.? Will they summoned you? It is a fair question. Where are the checks and balances

[trogers]

All very well said and done H90 but WHO is keeping the military in check? Who is there to prevent an abuse of power?

Who makes surer they are checking the cheques and balances within the big green?

The military is beyond reproach.

Do you want to be summoned for an attitude adjustment?

Are they beyond reproach.? Will they summoned you? It is a fair question. Where are the checks and balances

Well, the previous govt had reduced checks and balances to cheques and bank balances, with large numbers in both Houses on the take.

Is there any difference now?

[h90]

All very well said and done H90 but WHO is keeping the military in check? Who is there to prevent an abuse of power?

Who makes surer they are checking the cheques and balances within the big green?

You are complete right.....

You have the choice between total corrupt politician who only check the big green when they can make more money themself AND

the big green ones, who are have currently absolute power and the big guns. While they are currently gentle and less corrupt who guarantee that it will continue that way? Having absolute power means that it is just a matter of time till there will be massive abuse of it.

Loose-Loose situation. Changing the constitution and going back to democracy before this abuse happens is the only hope against it. But than you get the complete corrupt politicians again.....

[h90]

All very well said and done H90 but WHO is keeping the military in check? Who is there to prevent an abuse of power?

Who makes surer they are checking the cheques and balances within the big green?

The military is beyond reproach.

Do you want to be summoned for an attitude adjustment?

Well I prefer to get summoned and attitude adjustment (1 week) to getting shot by hired red guns.......Both not OK, but the military option is the one people survive....

[h90]

Where has he been when the democrat government didn't do any reforms?

"Prayut will have his hands tainted with blood,'' said Watchara, who is a former Democrat Party MP.

If the National Council for Peace and Order wants this charter draft, it should hold a public referendum. If the public votes to reject the charter draft, the PM should exercise his power under Article 44 to invoke another charter.

"Do not cling to power because this will lead to bloodshed,'' he said.

So he treated them with violent protests?

- Reducing the number of constituency MPs to 250, which he claimed was not right because each MP would have many people to take care of;

Not enough place at the feeding trough?

- Increasing the number of party-list MPs to 200, saying the "open list" would cause wrangling among candidates;

yes that makes vote buying very difficult. elections without vote buying are unpredictable.....

- Allowing a non-elected PM;

What is the problem with that?

- Senators have too much power and even the PM has to submit a list of Cabinet members for senators to screen;

It is called checks and balance, not the winner takes it all.

- The PM can dissolve the House if a censure motion receives less than half of total votes;

What is the problem with it?

- A new body will be set up to reduce the role of the Election Commission, paving the way for political interference;

The Election Commission like it was did a very poor job, so some change is necessary.

- Setting up a national reform committee that has the power to direct the government;

- Setting up the National Reform Mobilisation Assembly.

No no reforms please.....

That sounds like a man is desperate to loose his income if there are reforms and less corruption. It more shows the Prayuth is doing it right.

soon all the political enemies will join hands, just to keep corruption possible....

Hold on to your bonnets as I am about to defend a Democrat MP…...

He's not wrong on many issues.

Under a constitutional monarchy, the senior chamber does not approve Cabinet ministers. In fact I cannot think of any Commonwealth member states where the Queen is still head of state that this is done. Some countries were smart enough to do away with the senior chamber as it is an expensive waste. Yes, the senate has too much power. The senate is appointed by the ruling powers, which are currently the military. The former junta selected the senators too and they did everything possible to sabotage the Yingluck government. It works both ways. Former PTP appointed Senators caused grief for Abhisit. Who are these unelected political appointees to dictate to elected governments? The MP is trying to avoid continued fighting and sabotage.

Large constituencies do not allow for adequate representation. AN MP does a lot of constituency work, such as helping people resolve pension and benefits problems, mediating disputes,meeting with constituents and speaking to various groups. If the constituency is too large, then the MP can not function effectively.

Party list MPs are not democratic as they do not allow the voters to select their representatives. On the other hand they ensure that there is proportional representation. I don't like the concept because it leads to dysfunctional governments as seen in Thailand and Israel. However, I do understand why Thailand has it. All the MP is arguing for is that the numbers not be increased and that more emphasis be placed on allowing people to vote for their candidate.

I don't agree with everything he says, but it is unfair to accuse him of having a vested interest for monetary interests. he cares about Thailand.

I agree with half he says, but I doubt the reasons he has.

Yes the senate is a valid issue. In other countries the President has the right to approve or disapprove Cabinet members. Thailand don't want to do that because the King is what the president would be in other countries and it would drag the royal family into politics.

Solution, or better idea: I don't have any and the Ex-Democrat MP doesn't have any better ideas as well.

This representation was necessary when it needed 2 weeks to travel to far away province. These days with phones and TVs you can reduce that. As well you have the governors in the provinces taking care of local issues.

Maybe a solution would be to have a kind of senate (with different duties than now) containing the province Governors? (just a spontaneous idea, maybe not good?).

Many countries have only party list MPs and they aren't considered undemocratic. On the other hand constitutional MPs can be elected with a very low amount of votes. Say there are 10 almost equal strong candidates, one can win with just a bit more than 10 % of the votes, which is neither democratic nor difficult to influence with money. If you have 10 parties countrywide you can easily get the power with a very low percentage voting for you (but in every area). (On the other hand, as you say the proportional system often results in dysfunctional coalitions).

In Thai politics I tend to believe in monetary interests first, there might be some idealistic MPs who do the job because the care about Thailand but I think that is a minority, no matter which party list we talk about.

[h90]

Where has he been when the democrat government didn't do any reforms?

"Prayut will have his hands tainted with blood,'' said Watchara, who is a former Democrat Party MP.

If the National Council for Peace and Order wants this charter draft, it should hold a public referendum. If the public votes to reject the charter draft, the PM should exercise his power under Article 44 to invoke another charter.

"Do not cling to power because this will lead to bloodshed,'' he said.

So he treated them with violent protests?

- Reducing the number of constituency MPs to 250, which he claimed was not right because each MP would have many people to take care of;

Not enough place at the feeding trough?

- Increasing the number of party-list MPs to 200, saying the "open list" would cause wrangling among candidates;

yes that makes vote buying very difficult. elections without vote buying are unpredictable.....

- Allowing a non-elected PM;

What is the problem with that?

- Senators have too much power and even the PM has to submit a list of Cabinet members for senators to screen;

It is called checks and balance, not the winner takes it all.

- The PM can dissolve the House if a censure motion receives less than half of total votes;

What is the problem with it?

- A new body will be set up to reduce the role of the Election Commission, paving the way for political interference;

The Election Commission like it was did a very poor job, so some change is necessary.

- Setting up a national reform committee that has the power to direct the government;

- Setting up the National Reform Mobilisation Assembly.

No no reforms please.....

That sounds like a man is desperate to loose his income if there are reforms and less corruption. It more shows the Prayuth is doing it right.

soon all the political enemies will join hands, just to keep corruption possible....

Hold on to your bonnets as I am about to defend a Democrat MP…...

He's not wrong on many issues.

Under a constitutional monarchy, the senior chamber does not approve Cabinet ministers. In fact I cannot think of any Commonwealth member states where the Queen is still head of state that this is done. Some countries were smart enough to do away with the senior chamber as it is an expensive waste. Yes, the senate has too much power. The senate is appointed by the ruling powers, which are currently the military. The former junta selected the senators too and they did everything possible to sabotage the Yingluck government. It works both ways. Former PTP appointed Senators caused grief for Abhisit. Who are these unelected political appointees to dictate to elected governments? The MP is trying to avoid continued fighting and sabotage.

Large constituencies do not allow for adequate representation. AN MP does a lot of constituency work, such as helping people resolve pension and benefits problems, mediating disputes,meeting with constituents and speaking to various groups. If the constituency is too large, then the MP can not function effectively.

Party list MPs are not democratic as they do not allow the voters to select their representatives. On the other hand they ensure that there is proportional representation. I don't like the concept because it leads to dysfunctional governments as seen in Thailand and Israel. However, I do understand why Thailand has it. All the MP is arguing for is that the numbers not be increased and that more emphasis be placed on allowing people to vote for their candidate.

I don't agree with everything he says, but it is unfair to accuse him of having a vested interest for monetary interests. he cares about Thailand.

An idea: what is if the Senate isn't selected at all. Automatic all Governors sit inside as long as they hold the position. All former top judges from the constitutional court. All former Military Bosses. All former PM who hold the position longer than 6 years. All former labor union leader of the state enterprises (Is there the same for private companies?). From the farmer union (there is something like that) the former leader.

Per year the parliament can select two additional people but only with a 3/4 majority only. Sure a few more which don't come into my mind.

All hold the position for lifetime. For major decisions 2/3 majority is necessary.

That would be a dinosaur of a body which wouldn't do anything unless there is a real big crises.

No idea if that makes sense of if it only costs money.....

[ggt]

Each passing day without an election...brings more chance for defiance of the military junta and martial law...the very thing the coup was supposed to prevent...widespread fighting among Thais...may once again become problematic as the PM dances around the election issue and keeps moving the election forward...

Some of this discontent could be averted if everyone felt they had a part in forming the new constitution and governing body...

[Thai at Heart]

It doesn't work as long as a whistelblower can be charged with defamation and the courts are about as much use as a chocolate teapot. They can write whatever constitution they like, but it won't clear itself up unless independent prosecution of wrongdoing to all comers becomes the norm, not the exception

[retsdon]

One could get the impression that in some quarters there's really not a whole lot of enthusiasm for this democracy business....