What are these?

[Kanga Japan]

Can anyone help me to confirm the names of items in these photos?

Photo 1: makhuea yao?

Photo 2: sesbania (dok sano)?

Photo 3: laksa leaf (phak phai, phak phrik ma, phak phaew)?

Photo 4: winged beans (thua phu)?

Photo 5: not sure

Thank you for your help.

[Pla shado]

#1 = Yes, makhuea yao

#2 = Katuri flower = ดอกแค = dok khae (they grow in our yard and our older neighbors love them)

#3 = Thai morning glory = ผักบุ้ง = phak boong (could easily have other names)

#4 = Yes, thua phu

#5 = Young melon (Cucurbits)) = แตงไทยอ่อน = dtang Thai aawn

[Pla shado]

Note: Photo 2: sesbania (dok sano)? Dok sano is the similar, yellow flower.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Pla shado,

Thank you so much for all that information. Just to confirm:

#1 = MAKHUEA YAO

Noted. Thank you.

#2 = DOK KHAE

Katuri flower is a new name for me for DOK KHAE. I already had the sesban flower and hummingbird tree flower, but after receiving your mail I checked up on it and the description 'katuri flower' for DOK KHAE is used quite often in menus. I am not sure of the origin of 'katuri' - perhaps Tagalog or Sri Lankan. I see that these flowers are either a pale white, or red.

The DOK SANO looks somewhat similar, but they are yellow, as you say.

#3 = PHAK BOONG

Actually, this should be described as water morning glory, as there is another plant by the name of morning glory. There are so many English names for PHAK BOONG - swamp cabbage, kang kong, water convolvulus, Chinese water spinach, Siamese watercress, etc.

#4 = THUA PHU

Noted. Thank you.

#5 = TAENG THAI ON

You say that it is a "young melon (Cucurbits)", however I have TAENG THAI listed as a Musk Melon ( Cucumis melo). Do you mean that it is a young musk melon? It does not look like one at all. It seems to be some type of cucumber.

Thank you very much for your help.

PS I am posting these questions in the Thai Food forum section. Do you think I should post them in the Thai Language forum, because some replies come with the Thai script, which I understand is only permitted in the Thai Language forum?

[AyG]

I'm not sure about #5. To me they look like a particular kind of aubergine one finds in the supermarkets. About 3 cm long. Perhaps the photo is of something much larger, in which case I'd definitely be wrong.

[Kanga Japan]

Thanks for your comments AyG.

I don't think that they are large. Probably about 12cm or so, however I could be wrong.

Don't worry too much about this. If nobody knows, I will just forget it. By the way, TAENG THAI is a musk melon, isn't it?

Just trying to tie up some loose ends.

[AyG]

Musk melon (sometimes incorrectly referred to as cantaloupe is Cucumis melo. TAENG THAI as you have it. It's also referred to as KHAENTALUP (cantaloupe).

Watermelon is Citrullus lanatus - TAENG MO.

#5 is TAENG MO.

Check this Google image search for TAENG MO and note the skin colour and markings: http://tinyurl.com/pfy48q7

[AyG]

Here's a link to TAENG THAI ON. The stripes are more defined than TAENG MO, and the shape of the fruit much more cylindrical.

http://www.thaiseed.co.th/index.aspx?ProductID=Product-100311145664568

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Pla shado and AyG,

I have just been checking my books, trying to find a photo of something similar to #5.

I have 4 books titled Illustrated Book for Teaching Aid (Thai/English). I don't know who publishes these books, because most of it is in Thai. I bought them at Bangkok Airport a few years ago, but have never seen them in bookshops. One of the books is called Fruit Vegetables and on page 36 it refers to Young Native Melon and the Thai name (written in Thai script) is Taeng Thai On - as Pla shado said. The photo looks almost identical to my photo. Apparently they are 4cm in diameter and 13cm long.

As this must be correct, I am wondering about the connection between Taeng Thai (musk melon?) and Taeng Thai On.

Thank you for your help.

[Pla shado]

^{#3: Yes, water morning glory is a better description for phak boong.}

^{#5: Yes, แตงไทย is musk mellon. อ่อน (aawn) meaning young, fresh or green. I believe แตงไทยอ่อน (taeng Thai on) is a species of musk mellon but probably has a more descriptive name.}

^{This is what it looks like when ripe.}

^{https://www.gotoknow.org/posts/389476}

^{AyG would most likely have a better answer about where to post than me. He has much more experience using Thai Visa than I do.}

[Kanga Japan]

Dear AyG,

Just to let you know that my last comments (regarding the photo in the book) were posted before your comments on TAENG THAI ON, with the link showing them with defined stripes and a more cylindrical shape. There seems to be a variety of shapes and patterns for TAENG THAI ON, as the photo of them in the book I am referring to shows them with stripes which are sometimes defined (although not as much as in the link you sent) and sometimes jagged, with spots here and there. The shape is also somewhat more plumper than those in your link.

Dear Pla shado,

Thanks for your information and link. The photo of the mature 'musk melon' in the link surprised me.

I want to check up on a few things about musk melon and then will post some more comments as soon as I can.

Thank you both for your help.

[Kanga Japan]

Just getting back to the MUSK MELON.

I have spent hours, trying to work this out, but apparently the name MUSK MELON is used interchangeably with CANTALOUPE.

Musk melon is a species of melon (Cucumis melo), within which are:

cantaloupes (European and North American types)

honeydew melons

In Japan, the name MUSK MELON is given to a melon which looks like a cantaloupe (orange flesh) melon from the outside, with its netted surface, however the flesh is a pale green colour.

Is there a similar melon in Thailand, or are honeydew melons the only green-flesh melons?

Could you possibly tell me what this is?:

https://www.gotoknow.org/posts/389476

I am attaching a chart, which I have made, for the purpose of trying to organize these melons.

If you can offer any suggestions, or otherwise, I would appreciate it.

Thank you for your help.

Thanks for your help. No hurry.

MELON CHART PDF.pdf

[Pla shado]

You certainly have been busy Kanga Japan. Yes, we buy and eat the melons with the net-like surface and I've only heard them called cantaloupe by Thais. My wife tells me they may have either green or orange flesh. (There must be several varieties) There are round, smooth skinned melons they also call cantaloupe. I know that's no help.

Also, of little or no help, is the local name of the mature taeng Thai (musk melon) which is แตงไทยสุก (taeng Thai sook) สุก (sook) simply meaning ripe or mature.

I'll look around for a botanical name for the melon variety in question but I'm pretty sure it will just lead back to Cucumis melo. Undoubtedly, there is a definitive name out there somewhere.

Here is the "gotoknow" home page: https://www.gotoknow.org/home#/

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Pla shado,

Thank you for your information. Yes, it has taken me quite a while to research this, but I still have not cleared things up much.

1. CANTALOUPE

It is confusing to have the net-like melons (with orange or green flesh) and also the smooth surface melons both called cantaloupe. What colour is the flesh of the smooth surface melons? If it is a pale green, they probably are honeydew melons. I wonder if there are more detailed words to describe them. Descriptions for these netted melons are hazy, in all countries.

2. MATURE TAENG THAI

Thanks for the name for this.

3. GOTOKNOW

Sorry, but I am not sure exactly why you gave me the home page link for GotoKnow. My apologies for the possible confusion, however I was asking about the yellow melon pictured in the GotoKnow site which I showed. I notice that it is described as TAENG THAI (musk melon), however when I put TAENG THAI into the thai-language.com site, a completely different photo comes up (a round, netted melon), again described as TAENG THAI . I am wondering whether they are both referred to as TAENG THAI in Thailand, or whether one is incorrect.

Thanks again for your help.

[Pla shado]

I wasn't sure if you were asking about: "Could you possibly tell me what this is?": The melon photo or https://www.gotoknow.org/posts/389476 the link. So, I tried to include both. I'm un-confused now.

In discussions with the wife, I get the feeling that cantaloupe (แตงแคนตาลูป) is something of a catch-all word for several varieties of melon. I don't recall ever hearing the term musk melon being used locally.

To complicate things even more, the Isaan word for taeng Thai is แตงกิง (taeng ging). Taeng ging on (young Thai melon) and taeng ging sook (mature Thai melon). When I show my wife photos of both the young Thai melon and the ripe Thai melon she immediately recognizes them as being the same fruit at different stages of maturity. However, she does not call taeng Thai a cantaloupe. She really has no good explanation why. She does say that cantaloupes are "round", like a ball, though.

[Kanga Japan]

Thanks Pla shado.

No problem with the GotoKnow misunderstanding. Thank you.

Well, this is confusing, isn't it? From what I can see, you (and your wife), AyG and I have now discovered at least 3 different types of fruit (or fruit vegetables) with the name TAENG THAI (or TAENG THAI ON);

1. The long (13cm x 4cm) cucumber-looking vege-fruit, with the whitish stripes (TAENG THAI ON - young native melon).

2. The round netted skin melon (as in the thai-language.com page) (TAENG THAI - musk melon). This actually looks like what is known as 'musk melon' in Japan.

3. The yellow oval vege-fruit with the white stripes, on the GotoKnow site (TAENG THAI).

If they were at all similar I could understand that they would change as they mature, however they appear to be too different.

I can understand that there would be different Isaan descriptions. That is no real problem.

Your wife is correct - cantaloupes are round (and usually orange inside).

Thanks for your help on this. I will continue to research it further and will post something if I find it (hopefully I won't find another different photo).

[Pla shado]

I suspect there are quite a few varieties of cucumis melo. I believe the honey dew melon is simply called แตงหวาน (taeng waan) "sweet melon" in Thai.

Here is a link (that you may have already seen) that I ran across while looking around for info on cucumis melo.

http://library.cmu.ac.th/ntic/en_lannafood/detail_ingredient.php?id_ingredient=194

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Pla shado,

Thank you for your information. I know the Lanna Food site well and have often used it. I didn't see it this time, when I was researching for TAENG THAI, so thank you for that. It shows a photo of the yellow fruit, so that is a good sign, I guess. Now it has come up twice.

I already had the Thai word for honeydew melon.

I have sent a few enquiries to various sites relating to Thai food and Thai vegetables - Dokmai Gardens, Kasma Loha-unchit, She Simmers and Hot Thai Kitchen. I find all these sites very interesting and informative.

Hopefully I will receive some replies.

Thanks for your help again.

[Kanga Japan]

Last night I also sent an enquiry to Chef McDang, in extreme desperation. I would be great if a person with his knowledge of Thai food could provide us with some information.

[Pla shado]

I'd say you have covered it pretty well. Looking forward to learn of your inquiry results. I've always enjoyed watching Chef McDang's TV programs. A very knowledgeable fellow indeed!

[Kanga Japan]

Thanks Pla shado,

Chef McDang's a very knowledgeable person on Thai food (as well as being an interesting character!). I enjoy his programmes and sites, as well as his book.

By the way, about 10 minutes ago I received a reply from Kasma's husband Michael. He has passed my enquiry on to Kasma (she's always away teaching, or conducting Thai food tours). Kasma's books are great and provide tons of information on Thai food, as well as Thai culture. Michael also provided me with the following link, which shows the green-striped vege-fruit, which we initially identified as TAENG THAI ON.

http://www.eastwestseed.com/thailand/th/products/detail.php?SECTION_ID=92&ELEMENT_ID=553

I will send more posts if I receive any other information.

[Pla shado]

แตงไทยอ่อนลูกผสม ลายทอง (taeng Thai on), Young Thai melon, golden striped hybrid. Sort of makes one wonder what other hybrids might show up in the local dtalat soht.

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Pla shado,

Thanks for your mail. Yes, I wonder how many hybrids there are. Sorry, but what is 'dtalat soht'?

[AyG]

Sorry, but what is 'dtalat soht'?

Fresh (wet) market.

[Kanga Japan]

Thanks AyG.

That's a new expression for me. I did know the words separately, however it didn't click.

[Pla shado]

Sorry, but what is 'dtalat soht'?

Sorry Kanga Japan. I hear and use the term "dtalat soht" so often that I rarely think to say fresh market any more. My apologies.

[Kanga Japan]

No problem Pla shado. I do the same thing in Japanese.

AyG kindly gave me the meaning too.

[Kanga Japan]

I am still waiting for replies from the various sites which I have sent enquiries to, however after quite a bit of researching, I have come to the conclusion that TAENG THAI can be considered as;

1. Cantaloupe (often used, but basically incorrect).

2. Thai musk melon, with the following characteristics:

a. shape: either round, or oblong (roundish).

b. skin: orange/yellow (sometimes pale green), with ridges.

c. flesh: either pale green, yellow, or a combination of pale green and yellow.

The immature TAENG THAI (TAENG THAI ON) is:

a. shape: oblong (a little plump, similar to a cucumber).

b. skin: dark green, with white stripes.

c. flesh: pale green, with seeds (similar to a cucumber).

I hope that my assumptions are correct, but will still wait for any replies I may receive to the enquiries I sent.

My conclusions are based on checking the following:

GotoKnow:

https://www.gotoknow.org/posts/389476

Pinterest:

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/193303008979149203/

East-West Seeds:

http://www.eastwestseed.com/thailand/th/products/detail.php?SECTION_ID=92&ELEMENT_ID=553

Evergreen Seeds:

http://www.evergreenseeds.com/thmethbe.html

Etsy:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/190751624/50-seeds-round-thai-musk-melon-muskmelon

Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Thai-Long-Muskmelon-Package-Thailand/dp/B00GX7WCA0

Cherry Gal:

http://www.cherrygal.com/melonthaiyellowsweetheirloomseeds2015-p-16109.html

Meijo University:

http://librae.mju.ac.th/goverment/20111119104834_librae/File20130418132650_11906.pdf

Lion Seeds:

http://www.lionseeds.com/seeds/thai-melon/thai-melon/

Kaset nana:

http://kasetnana.blogspot.jp/2013/10/blog-post_17.html

Raitawanyim:

http://raitawanyim.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=60_98

Biodiversity:

http://www.bedo.or.th/lcdb/biodiversity/view.aspx?id=11017

Tree of Thai (Sittisatation)

http://treeofthai.com/tag/แตงไทย/

alangcity:

http://alangcity.blogspot.jp/2012/11/blog-post_18.html

woofind:

http://woofind.com/แตงไทย/

frynn:

http://frynn.com/แตงไทย/

greenkaset:

http://greenkaset.blogspot.jp/2012/03/tangthai.html

foodietaste:

http://www.foodietaste.com/recipe_detail.asp?id=2204

by nita:

http://food-easy.blogspot.jp/2012/11/blog-post.html

Some of them are in Thai, so I cannot fully understand them.

If anyone has any comments or advice, please feel free to post them. I would appreciate them.

Thanks for your help.

PS When searching sites, using the word 'melons', a few melons, not of the botanical type came up.

[Pla shado]

You've certainly done your homework Kanga Japan. A bit surprising that so little botanical information can be found. I looked on quite a few sites and never found any definitive information. The Meijo University link you posted seems to cover the varieties pretty well though.

I asked my wife if the round variety of TAENG THAI was ever eaten in it's immature stage (TAENG THAI ON) as is the oblong type. She said that round ones were eaten green and used to make a Thai salad similar to som tam (ส้มตำ) or cut into slices and eaten raw with nam prik (น้ำพริก).

[Kanga Japan]

Dear Pla shado,

Thank you for your information. I really appreciate the follow-up that you and your wife are providing.

Yes, it is surprising (perhaps better described as 'annoying') that not much detailed botanical information can be found on TAENG THAI. All sites only refer to the species (Cucumis melo) and there is no mention of the variety (for example honeydew melon - Cucumis melo Inodorus). If we knew the variety name, I am sure that we could find more information. Unfortunately, it does not seem to have one, which is unusual.

So, according to your wife's remarks, there is also actually a round green (immature) TAENG THAI (TAENG THAI ON). That is another bit of new information. I was under the impression that the immature ones were a long oblong shape.

I have my dictionary ready to be put into app format and was hoping that most of the information was correct, considering the amount of research which has been put into it and the incredible help of the members of Thai Forum. When things like this come up, it depresses me a bit. Still, as an app, it will always be able to be revised, so that's one good thing. Still working on the photos for it.

Thanks again for your help. I will submit a new post if any further information is received. Enjoy your weekend!