Details of solar roof drive to be sent to Thai Cabinet for approval in 30 days

[webfact]

Details of solar roof drive to be sent to Cabinet for approval in 30 days

BANGKOK, 25 March 2015 (NNT) – The National Reform Council is proposing that the government issue a bill on alternative energy to support Thailand's foray into the green energy sector.

Professor Dr. Dusit Kruangam ( ดร.ดุสิต เครืองาม ), the deputy chairman of the NRC's subcommittee on reform of alternative energy, re-usable energy and energy conservation spoke on Tuesday about the project to promote installation of solar roofs. He said the subcommittee had already forwarded the matter to the Ministry of Energy for further studies. The final findings will be presented to the Cabinet for approval within 30 days.

Dr. Dusit said the subcommittee was proposing the use of the Energy Savings Company (ESCO) model in the management of state agencies' energy use, as the model has proven effective in reducing expenses and optimizing energy use among state agencies. The subcommittee was also proposing the issuance of energy usage regulations for state- and private-owned buildings and large homes, under the belief that doing so would contribute to the reform of energy use and the reduction of environmental problems.

Dr. Dusit added that in order to allow Thailand to become the ASEAN region's center in green energy, development of renewable energy must be undertaken, especially for biofuels such as ethanol and biodiesel. This effort would be augmented by the issuance of an alternative energy bill, and by creating a green energy network among the member countries of ASEAN.


-- NNT 2015-03-25

[jpeg]

Details of solar roof drive to be sent to Cabinet for approval in 30 days

And quietly dropped a week later.

[Strangebrew]

Now this can be a good thing But maybe a delegation of of Thia's in the energy field should take a trip to SFO and the Bay area in California. and have a sit down with PG&E an large supplier of power. Also In Berkley there is an Bio fuel producer He can show how to produce on both large scale and small scale from just cooking oil among other 's such as corn. I suggest ed California and the Bay Area for good reason two fold computer industy there and wind farms plus there is solar farm about an or two drive from there plus the bio fuel producer is there Not to mention Waste management that use's garbage to produce power and a top flight recycle program and California Has a very strict smog program in place. Thailand could gain vast amount of information in one area.

[Crossy]

Question is, is this a Solar Roof bill or an Alternative Energy bill?

If it really is Solar Roof then:

Access to the scheme needs to be simple for small producers (a few kW), well publicised and open continuously not restricted to a few weeks then closed.

A decent list of approved inverters which are not then inflated in price needs to be published and a route in for currently non-approved inverters needs to be included (such as an approval in Australia being valid).

[bangkokfrog]

Now this can be a good thing But maybe a delegation of of Thia's in the energy field should take a trip to SFO and the Bay area in California. and have a sit down with PG&E an large supplier of power. Also In Berkley there is an Bio fuel producer He can show how to produce on both large scale and small scale from just cooking oil among other 's such as corn. I suggest ed California and the Bay Area for good reason two fold computer industy there and wind farms plus there is solar farm about an or two drive from there plus the bio fuel producer is there Not to mention Waste management that use's garbage to produce power and a top flight recycle program and California Has a very strict smog program in place. Thailand could gain vast amount of information in one area.

Yes, but what about shopping facilities? (Otherwise no delegation.)

[Emster23]

Years ago read paper on energy use in Thailand. Huge amounts of energy could be saved with 0 investment if air conditioning levels weren't set at walk in freezer levels. Who else brings along a jacket when going to theater? I can't spend long at shopping malls they are so uncomfortably cold. Just raising temperature settings a couple of degrees would have a huge impact.

But then again, there's no tea money in this choice....

[halloween]

If people want to install solar panels to run their AC, they can set it to any level they like. As long as others (such as me) aren't required to pay their costs through government subsidies or buy their excess at hugely inflated prices, I couldn't give a hoot.

[torpedo1970]

Thailand to become the ASEAN region's center in green energy

Another "frigging" hub to put up there in their imaginations.....

It is going to be a big "crash and burn" the day when the Thais will have to loose face big time and understand that they are loosing out to all the other ASEAN countries... in everything, being all from hubs to education and down to English proficiency....

What a day that will be!

[mrdome]

Bravo! late but not too late. SE Asia with it's heavy sun exposure should have its house roofs filled with panels.

The electric companies should buy back electricity from the owners to help offset the costs. Alternatively, neighborhoods should have e-hubs that feed a number of houses in the immediate vicinity. No need to build more polluting power plants if done right.

[bikerbri]

This has been advocated before. The last time people were to be offered a feed in tariff if they put solar panels on their roofs. About a thousand households had the panels installed only to find out afterwards that they needed a factory license before they and the country could reap the benefits.

[Srikcir]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Question is, is this a Solar Roof bill or an Alternative Energy bill?

If it really is Solar Roof then:

Access to the scheme needs to be simple for small producers (a few kW), well publicised and open continuously not restricted to a few weeks then closed.

A decent list of approved inverters which are not then inflated in price needs to be published and a route in for currently non-approved inverters needs to be included (such as an approval in Australia being valid).

Also need certified installers and solar equipment.

Like most bills going to NLA there is scant information. Solar rooftop electrical generation can either be used directly through inverters in the building that would have to be off the public electric grid, or used as credit into the public electric grid through "reverse" meters.

In the credit approach, the public grid owners would be required to purchase alternative energy from small producers and credited against the users total electric account. The latter arrangement with grid connection involves precision equipment that will not damage the grid serving millions of people, utility accountability, and favorable electric purchase rates that can provide a net payback after five years to the small energy producer.

Depending on the direction the government wants to take with rooftop electrical generation, and I'm not sure it has really decided, legislation may be simple and quick or it may be much more complex. Many nations have already passed various legislation dealing with a broad choice of options on small electrical energy producers that the Junta and NLA could examine as gudiance. But this government seems to insist on developing everything from scratch to retain some Thainess.

[monkeycountry]

Thailand has more and stronger sunshine hours than most other countries, yet cannot manage to implement a proper solar power strategy. No surprise there.

To those who don't want to be forced to contribute by being forced to pay for government subsidies through taxes or higher electric bills, fair enough, but then please ensure that I in turn am not forced to breathe in the polluted air from the coal/gas plants you prefer to use.

Edited March 25, 2015 by monkeycountry

[Muhendis]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Question is, is this a Solar Roof bill or an Alternative Energy bill?

If it really is Solar Roof then:

Access to the scheme needs to be simple for small producers (a few kW), well publicised and open continuously not restricted to a few weeks then closed.

A decent list of approved inverters which are not then inflated in price needs to be published and a route in for currently non-approved inverters needs to be included (such as an approval in Australia being valid).

Also need certified installers and solar equipment.

Like most bills going to NLA there is scant information. Solar rooftop electrical generation can either be used directly through inverters in the building that would have to be off the public electric grid, or used as credit into the public electric grid through "reverse" meters.

In the credit approach, the public grid owners would be required to purchase alternative energy from small producers and credited against the users total electric account. The latter arrangement with grid connection involves precision equipment that will not damage the grid serving millions of people, utility accountability, and favorable electric purchase rates that can provide a net payback after five years to the small energy producer.

Depending on the direction the government wants to take with rooftop electrical generation, and I'm not sure it has really decided, legislation may be simple and quick or it may be much more complex. Many nations have already passed various legislation dealing with a broad choice of options on small electrical energy producers that the Junta and NLA could examine as gudiance. But this government seems to insist on developing everything from scratch to retain some Thainess

The biggest hurdle to jump over in Thailand is the reluctance of the owners of PEA (94.6% population base) to pay their customers for anything they may produce. The owners of PEA are the government interior ministry. The government in Thailand has a vested interest in the production of electricity which would preclude them from wanting to reduce their income by paying people to not use their service. I do not see this changing until the PEA becomes privatized and the government truly starts to represent the wishes of the Thai people.

[maidee]

oh i tought when reading the title

that cars would have some solar panel on top

[scorecard]

From a layman:

- To provide enough electricity to run say 3 air conditioners (not every night of course) and a 4 spot electric cooking top, approx. how many square metres of panels

would be needed on the roof?

- I'm guessing the panels should be fitted on the part of the roof which gets most direct sunlight most of the day. I'm therefore guessing that the panels also block direct

sun/heat penetration to the roof area, a further benefit.

Comments appreciated.

[Muhendis]

From a layman:

- To provide enough electricity to run say 3 air conditioners (not every night of course) and a 4 spot electric cooking top, approx. how many square metres of panels

would be needed on the roof?

- I'm guessing the panels should be fitted on the part of the roof which gets most direct sunlight most of the day. I'm therefore guessing that the panels also block direct

sun/heat penetration to the roof area, a further benefit.

Comments appreciated.

Your question is simple but the answer is less so.

First you need to know the power consumption of the A/C units. Add them together to get the total maximum power required.

Panel area is based on 1KW of sun-power/sq metre when the sun is at zenith but this is at an ambient temperature of 25 deg.C. As the temperature goes up, panel efficiency goes down.

Panels mounted perpendicular to the sunlight at this time of day could give as much as 20% of the maximum 1KW/sq metre. Most of the day this will not apply (could be anything from 5% to 20%)

You will need an inverter which will also have losses typically 5-10% and will need to be sized to cope with the input power as well as the output power.

So you need to factor in your losses to get to the figure of how many sq metres of panels you need. Any half-decent solar installation company should be able to do this for you. It may also be an (expensive) idea to consider having a battery bank so that the load can be evened out a bit during the day.

[bill1369]

Bravo! late but not too late. SE Asia with it's heavy sun exposure should have its house roofs filled with panels.

The electric companies should buy back electricity from the owners to help offset the costs. Alternatively, neighborhoods should have e-hubs that feed a number of houses in the immediate vicinity. No need to build more polluting power plants if done right.

Recently read of a SW American city where a large % of homeowners were using solar panels on their homes, making big dents in their utility bills.

The result? The power company started adding a $50 surcharge to their bills. The utility company's reasoning? They had gone to all the trouble of installing power lines to homes and were required to maintain electricity to the homes 24/7; therefore the surcharge was reasonable.

The matter is being litigated.

Anyone think the MEA would not do same?

[thaimite]

Bravo! late but not too late. SE Asia with it's heavy sun exposure should have its house roofs filled with panels.

The electric companies should buy back electricity from the owners to help offset the costs. Alternatively, neighborhoods should have e-hubs that feed a number of houses in the immediate vicinity. No need to build more polluting power plants if done right.

Recently read of a SW American city where a large % of homeowners were using solar panels on their homes, making big dents in their utility bills.

The result? The power company started adding a $50 surcharge to their bills. The utility company's reasoning? They had gone to all the trouble of installing power lines to homes and were required to maintain electricity to the homes 24/7; therefore the surcharge was reasonable.

The matter is being litigated.

Anyone think the MEA would not do same?

I heard a similar story on an Austrlain documentary.

As people went off grid, the utility company said it had to increase its rates to the remaining customers so they could maintain their infrastructure/ This in turn gave more of an insentive to go off grid.

[halloween]

Thailand has more and stronger sunshine hours than most other countries, yet cannot manage to implement a proper solar power strategy. No surprise there.

To those who don't want to be forced to contribute by being forced to pay for government subsidies through taxes or higher electric bills, fair enough, but then please ensure that I in turn am not forced to breathe in the polluted air from the coal/gas plants you prefer to use.

You are not forced to breath, feel free to stop any time you wish, or move elsewhere. But before considering those options, let me ask you how you intend to obtain energy when the sun doesn't shine? Will you buy energy from those coal/gas plants, or install a large bank of batteries, assuming you can find the non-polluting type?

Edited March 26, 2015 by halloween

[halloween]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Also need certified installers and solar equipment.

Like most bills going to NLA there is scant information. Solar rooftop electrical generation can either be used directly through inverters in the building that would have to be off the public electric grid, or used as credit into the public electric grid through "reverse" meters.

In the credit approach, the public grid owners would be required to purchase alternative energy from small producers and credited against the users total electric account. The latter arrangement with grid connection involves precision equipment that will not damage the grid serving millions of people, utility accountability, and favorable electric purchase rates that can provide a net payback after five years to the small energy producer.

Depending on the direction the government wants to take with rooftop electrical generation, and I'm not sure it has really decided, legislation may be simple and quick or it may be much more complex. Many nations have already passed various legislation dealing with a broad choice of options on small electrical energy producers that the Junta and NLA could examine as gudiance. But this government seems to insist on developing everything from scratch to retain some Thainess.

Why should solar purchasers be entitled to a nett payback after 5 years? This would mean that they are paid far more for their energy production than any other producer or its real worth. As would one for one credits.

FYI wholesale energy is purchased at 3 levels; base load (the cheapest) where a generator supplies a fixed amount of energy for long periods, spinning reserve (worth more) where the generator agrees to have generating capacity available and is paid for that produced and, at a much lower rate, for energy available but not produced, and load following (highest rate) for generation able to rapidly change to suit demand. Most coal/gas plants are unable to rapidly change output.

Now we have solar, producing energy for a short period (3-4 hours max) and subject to rapid and uncontrolled fluctuations. Why should that receive retail rate (credits) or higher?

Australians are asking this question as their government buys (and installs) hugely over-priced solar power while selling as much coal as possible. It is not only stupid, it is hypocritical.

[phoenixdoglover]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Question is, is this a Solar Roof bill or an Alternative Energy bill?

.......

Also need certified installers and solar equipment.

.......

The biggest hurdle to jump over in Thailand is the reluctance of the owners of PEA (94.6% population base) to pay their customers for anything they may produce. The owners of PEA are the government interior ministry. The government in Thailand has a vested interest in the production of electricity which would preclude them from wanting to reduce their income by paying people to not use their service. I do not see this changing until the PEA becomes privatized and the government truly starts to represent the wishes of the Thai people.

Exactly. The regulator is also the provider.

Privatize the major parts (generation, transmission, distribution) as regional entities. Shrink PEA down as a regulator or planning ministry only.

However, here's what they say about privatization:

" In accordance with the Government's plan and policy on the privatization, the PEA has drawn up an action plan for restructuring the organization and then has applied the Quality Standard Management System to its total work areas which has been certified by ISO 9002 in 2001. All of these solutions create the satisfaction and confidence to the customers in using the PEA's electricity and service."

Ahem. So, no privatization.

The Thai alternative energy program will continue to underachieve.

[halloween]

I heard a similar story on an Austrlain documentary.

As people went off grid, the utility company said it had to increase its rates to the remaining customers so they could maintain their infrastructure/ This in turn gave more of an insentive to go off grid.

You may have missed the point. Energy suppliers are forced to pay inflated prices, higher than retail, for panel owners excess solar energy. The solar producers are not going off-grid, which entails expensive batteries, but selling their excess, while still requiring energy at peak load periods when their solar is inactive. This means that there is no decrease in requirement of conventional energy plants to supply peak load though the total daily energy sold is dropping, and consequently revenue.

And they still have to maintain the poles and wires. I am yet to hear of any country that has reduced its conventional power plant availability due to increased solar production.

[monkeycountry]

Thailand has more and stronger sunshine hours than most other countries, yet cannot manage to implement a proper solar power strategy. No surprise there.

To those who don't want to be forced to contribute by being forced to pay for government subsidies through taxes or higher electric bills, fair enough, but then please ensure that I in turn am not forced to breathe in the polluted air from the coal/gas plants you prefer to use.

You are not forced to breath, feel free to stop any time you wish, or move elsewhere. But before considering those options, let me ask you how you intend to obtain energy when the sun doesn't shine? Will you buy energy from those coal/gas plants, or install a large bank of batteries, assuming you can find the non-polluting type?

Likewise you are not forced to pay expensive electricity. Simply stop using electricity and/or stop paying the electricity bills or your taxes - or move as you suggest.

Noone has said we need 100% solar power, 50% will be a good start, and will mean the air will be that much cleaner. Further there are other sources of energy such as wind and water power etc. This works better if power is transported across borders.

[halloween]

Thailand has more and stronger sunshine hours than most other countries, yet cannot manage to implement a proper solar power strategy. No surprise there.

To those who don't want to be forced to contribute by being forced to pay for government subsidies through taxes or higher electric bills, fair enough, but then please ensure that I in turn am not forced to breathe in the polluted air from the coal/gas plants you prefer to use.

You are not forced to breath, feel free to stop any time you wish, or move elsewhere. But before considering those options, let me ask you how you intend to obtain energy when the sun doesn't shine? Will you buy energy from those coal/gas plants, or install a large bank of batteries, assuming you can find the non-polluting type?

Likewise you are not forced to pay expensive electricity. Simply stop using electricity and/or stop paying the electricity bills or your taxes - or move as you suggest.

Noone has said we need 100% solar power, 50% will be a good start, and will mean the air will be that much cleaner. Further there are other sources of energy such as wind and water power etc. This works better if power is transported across borders.

Mains electricity is far from expensive, and I will continue to use it without a hint of hypocrisy. The biggest problem with energy policy is that it is driven by (well intentioned?) people with huge agendas and miniscule levels of knowledge.

But continue on in your fantasy land. Remember, anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

Edited March 30, 2015 by halloween

[monkeycountry]

Thailand has more and stronger sunshine hours than most other countries, yet cannot manage to implement a proper solar power strategy. No surprise there.

To those who don't want to be forced to contribute by being forced to pay for government subsidies through taxes or higher electric bills, fair enough, but then please ensure that I in turn am not forced to breathe in the polluted air from the coal/gas plants you prefer to use.

You are not forced to breath, feel free to stop any time you wish, or move elsewhere. But before considering those options, let me ask you how you intend to obtain energy when the sun doesn't shine? Will you buy energy from those coal/gas plants, or install a large bank of batteries, assuming you can find the non-polluting type?

Likewise you are not forced to pay expensive electricity. Simply stop using electricity and/or stop paying the electricity bills or your taxes - or move as you suggest.

Noone has said we need 100% solar power, 50% will be a good start, and will mean the air will be that much cleaner. Further there are other sources of energy such as wind and water power etc. This works better if power is transported across borders.

Mains electricity is far from expensive, and I will continue to use it without a hint of hypocrisy. The biggest problem with energy policy is that it is driven by (well intentioned?) people with huge agendas and miniscule levels of knowledge.

But continue on in your fantasy land. Remember, anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

I do admit I don't know what you are talking about!

[halloween]

Likewise you are not forced to pay expensive electricity. Simply stop using electricity and/or stop paying the electricity bills or your taxes - or move as you suggest.

Noone has said we need 100% solar power, 50% will be a good start, and will mean the air will be that much cleaner. Further there are other sources of energy such as wind and water power etc. This works better if power is transported across borders.

Mains electricity is far from expensive, and I will continue to use it without a hint of hypocrisy. The biggest problem with energy policy is that it is driven by (well intentioned?) people with huge agendas and miniscule levels of knowledge.

But continue on in your fantasy land. Remember, anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.

I do admit I don't know what you are talking about!

I realise that. Thailand's annual consumption is about 180 billion kWh, or 500 million kWh per day. http://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/electricity_consumption.html

A 1 kWh rated panel will produce about 5kWh per day, if you are lucky.(capacity factor - Photovoltaic solar in Arizona 19%)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacity_factor

So for your good start we will only need 50 million 1kW panels. Oh, and some means of storing that energy for those hours when your solar panels don't generate, about 75% of the day. No such method currently exists.

If you are feeling slightly stupid, get a degree in Electrical Engineering, work in the generation industry for 20 years, and we can discuss the benefits and liabilities of solar power more rationally. You might like to brush up on Energy In/Out Ratios as well.

[rooinekrsa]

Hi Guys

To be able to generate enough electricity for a house hold one has to change the geyser to solar, the stove to gas ,AC to heat pumps "10 - 20% of electricty used" and low wattage lights and pressure pumps.Then the price is right to go solar power generation

regards