Prayut threatens to hold onto power indefinitely

[rubl]

Of course suing some opposition (or a reporter who mentions cracks) out of existence is soo much more democratic.

unknown date, somewhen 2001 - 2005

"Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra remains confident that his Thai Rak Thai Party will remain in power for at least 20 years and that its policies will make it even more popular than it is now."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Thaksin-remains-confident-that-TRT-will-rule-for-2-94490.html

2013-01-30

"For the past year and a half, by the party’s own admission, the most important political decisions in this country of 65 million people have been made from abroad, by a former prime minister who has been in self-imposed exile since 2008 to escape corruption charges."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/world/asia/thaksin-shinawatra-of-thailand-wields-influence-from-afar.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Oh, by the way 2008-08-13

"Permanent Secretary for Justice Kittiphong Kitayarak (กิตติพงษ์ กิตยารักษ์) says the attorney responsible for the case of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra has a period of 20 years to bring him to trial."

http://thainews.prd.go.th/newsenglish/previewnews.php?news_id=255108130017 (link no longer valid)

What does all of that have to do with the general who led a military coup threatening to hold onto power indefinitely?

Good question, Heybruce.

It should be clear it has nothing to do with Democracy as we know it in the West, or as we would Thailand to have it.

What 'all this' has to do with the topic of "clinging to power" should be obvious (excuses for using that term), except for those who do not want to see, that is.

Thaksin was clearly talking about the Thai Rak Thai party winning elections for twenty years by giving the people the government they wanted. Are you aware that there is a difference between staying in power by winning elections and using the military to seize and hold onto power?

Yingluck campaigned on a promise to be Thaksin's clone and won an internationally monitored election; the voters clearly wanted Thaksin influencing the Thai government.

I'm not sure why having twenty years to bring Thaksin to trial is significant to anything here.

So, in a topic about the PM threatening to hold onto power indefinitely, you bring up the electoral success of the Thai Rak Thai party and the fact that Yingluck campaigned on a promise to a conduit for Thaksin and won the election resoundingly. Once again, I don't see how your post is pertinent to the OP.

Oh boy, and for a moment I thought you were a proponent of real democracies. Those where by law 'self-exiled' fugitives cannot run a party, be elected, select the PM and skype-in into cabinet meetings to give orders.

2013-01-30

"For the past year and a half, by the party’s own admission, the most important political decisions in this country of 65 million people have been made from abroad, by a former prime minister who has been in self-imposed exile since 2008 to escape corruption charges."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/world/asia/thaksin-shinawatra-of-thailand-wields-influence-from-afar.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Of course being 'allowed' such freedom is much, much better than having to stage a coup which is automatically condemned. Better to subvert a democratic system already faulty. Better a Thai pretty for perception while running the country as a family property. Make the voters believe they have a say in things, promise a lot and give a little.

In the mean time we'll all condemn PM Prayut for even thinking aloud of maybe staying on, but then he must be a bit of a masochist for wanting to stay on.

[willyumiii]

Ahhh...he has started learning from Lee Kuan Yew...

Between being loved and being feared, I have always believed Machiavelli was right. If nobody is afraid of me, Im meaningless.

You take a poll of any people. What is it they want? The right to write an editorial as you like? They want homes, medicine, jobs, schools.

What the people really want is to be paid for their votes again!

That's democracy in Thailand!

[kriswillems]

After the elections Prayuth could surely start working as a standup comedian.

He doesn't need to hold on to the power.

[TheAppletons]

Oh boy, and for a moment I thought you were a proponent of real democracies. Those where by law 'self-exiled' fugitives cannot run a party, be elected, select the PM and skype-in into cabinet meetings to give orders.

2013-01-30

"For the past year and a half, by the party’s own admission, the most important political decisions in this country of 65 million people have been made from abroad, by a former prime minister who has been in self-imposed exile since 2008 to escape corruption charges."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/world/asia/thaksin-shinawatra-of-thailand-wields-influence-from-afar.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Of course being 'allowed' such freedom is much, much better than having to stage a coup which is automatically condemned. Better to subvert a democratic system already faulty. Better a Thai pretty for perception while running the country as a family property. Make the voters believe they have a say in things, promise a lot and give a little.

In the mean time we'll all condemn PM Prayut for even thinking aloud of maybe staying on, but then he must be a bit of a masochist for wanting to stay on.

"In the mean time we'll all condemn PM Prayut for even thinking aloud of maybe staying on, but then he must be a bit of a masochist megalomaniac for wanting to stay on."

Fixed that for ya.

[heybruce]

"Real practical advise"? That's a new dodge (or to use your favorite term, zig-zag) from you. The practical reality is that a corrupt military is not going to clean up corruption in Thailand. It certainly isn't going to lead Thailand to a "well-founded democracy with a 'reasonable' government".

Finally, so long as the endemically corrupt military is ready and able to stage coups whenever the generals are unhappy with the government, to think that ethical standards and anti-corruption laws will be applied to the military is a fantasy.

I just read an article on a Dutch news site with the 'leader of MPs' of the political party VVD (which is part of a coalition government in the Netherlands at the moment, interestingly a left/right excluding middle coalition) who suggested that the policy till now to raise that Dutch uncle finger and tell dictators to behave and step down ("the too soon topple of stable regimes") only tends to create chaos in those countries which in turn leads to a higher influx of refugees into the EU.

Finally as long as the endemically corrupt Thaksin parties are able to manipulate a faulty democratic system, to think they will apply ethical standards and anti-corruption laws is a fantasy.

This IMHO, just like yours

PS could you even try to pick one area of corruption which doesn't involve bashing the military?

First paragraph; I think you're stating that the Dutch government doesn't want to get involved in toppling established dict..., uh, richardtatorships. So what?

Second paragraph; both Thaksin's and the PTP/Yingluck' governments were toppled in coups while they were trying to hold elections. They attempted to give the voters the chance to remove them from power democratically; do you think the junta will allow that? Mature democracies don't happen overnight, you have to allow enough cycles of elections without military intervention for the system to achieve stability. Stable democracy is not perfect, but many people prefer imperfect democratic stability to stability at gunpoint.

Third paragraph; I've pointed out repeatedly in this forum that transparency, conflict of interest laws, and regular asset disclosures should be applied to all government people in a position to influence government spending, including the civil service and the military. Why are you so keen on ignoring corruption in the military?

It's more that you are so keen on highlighting 'corrupt military' as if to turn people away from other and greater corruption games.

So, nothing practical again. Very theoratical is your "They attempted to give the voters the chance to remove them from power democratically". Still you seem to believe it.

The military is the organization in charge, claiming it will 'reform' Thailand, and writing a constitution that will guarantee it's power and immunity from outside interference. It is also the corrupt institution that no Thai government has ever dared investigate. I've repeatedly made it clear that I think corruption should be tackled in all of government, but obviously the priority should be on the organization in charge.

I also have made it clear that I don't support what the military has done and is doing. You and others make it clear that your willing to go along with it. Now we have a richardtator threatening to make himself permanent PM and you seem to have no problem with that.

You are clearly quite comfortable with a miltary richardtator. I think it's foolish to accept such a person and believe in applying constant pressure and resistance so he doesn't get comfortable on the job. The alternatives are either letting Thailand regress to the state that Myanmar is trying to climb out of, or a bloody rebellion.

There is nothing theoretical about changing governments through elections. It happens all over the world. It even happened in Thailand in 2011. Didn't you notice?

Edited March 28, 2015 by heybruce

[lildragon]

I disagree Uncle Rubs, the Military have always avoided being looked at with a fine tooth comb, when it comes to corruption, come on mate, their Generals are all in the Super Rich bracket, doesn't that pique your interest as to why?

Gambling is illegal in Thailand, so investing in stocks and shares isn't a form of gambling?

Transparency HAS to be across the board, it's all to easy to finger point at other departments, and have them looked into, whilst knowing you're untouchable.. NO ORGANISATION in Thailand should be unapproachable, or exempt from being Investigated for acts of corruption.

STOP all these officers serving in the RTA who are "paid" board members of other organisations, that's a conflict of interest right from the start.

Don't you recall the RTA Captain who also owned a PR firm given lucrative contracts by the Junta too?

All the bad things about Nepotism and Cronyism within he PTP are still very pertinent to the current Junta mate..

In my line of work we call this a simple "change of t-shirts" when one company replaces another.

Thailand has a problem which needs correcting, by law, by enforcing laws and mostly by 'attitude changes'.

To only jump on the RTA like Heybruce does seems more politically motivated than from a real wish to help the country forward.

Because rubl me old china', it's the military here that are the one charged with the (self appointed) job of trying to 'better' Thailand. The PTP have been taken to the cleaners and yeah they deserve it, but heybruce in his posts has pointed out alarming things going on within the military. Why are they completely exempt from investigation? Why is there never any high profile generals or colonels being publicly investigated for ill doings? Don't go and tell me it doesn't go on in the RTA now

If Prayuth tomorrow starting cracking skulls in his own house then some here might respect him a bit more. But he won't, he is neck deep in self interest just like Thaksin is, just different colours and backers.

Edited March 28, 2015 by lildragon

[rubl]

It's more that you are so keen on highlighting 'corrupt military' as if to turn people away from other and greater corruption games.

So, nothing practical again. Very theoratical is your "They attempted to give the voters the chance to remove them from power democratically". Still you seem to believe it.

The military is the organization in charge, claiming it will 'reform' Thailand, and writing a constitution that will guarantee it's power and immunity from outside interference. It is also the corrupt institution that no Thai government has ever dared investigate. I've repeatedly made it clear that I think corruption should be tackled in all of government, but obviously the priority should be on the organization in charge.

I also have made it clear that I don't support what the military has done and is doing. You and others make it clear that your willing to go along with it. Now we have a richardtator threatening to make himself permanent PM and you seem to have no problem with that.

You are clearly quite comfortable with a miltary richardtator. I think it's foolish to accept such a person and believe in applying constant pressure and resistance so he doesn't get comfortable on the job. The alternatives are either letting Thailand regress to the state that Myanmar is trying to climb out of, or a bloody rebellion.

There is nothing theoretical about changing governments through elections. It happens all over the world. It even happened in Thailand in 2011. Didn't you notice?

Oh I did notice, so did the world and after a while the world also acknowledged that the criminal fugitive Thaksin was running the show. All because as a 'real' democracy Thailand had elections.

As I wrote, much better than staging a coup. Be seen as 'victim', be in charge, get to grow your personel fortune, have your family employed AND have TVF posters who are all for democracy even be all in favour of you for knowing how to manipulate the system.

So, Prayut threatens where Thaksin 'only' speculated on being able to stay on and even managed from afar.

[rubl]

I disagree Uncle Rubs, the Military have always avoided being looked at with a fine tooth comb, when it comes to corruption, come on mate, their Generals are all in the Super Rich bracket, doesn't that pique your interest as to why?

Gambling is illegal in Thailand, so investing in stocks and shares isn't a form of gambling?

Transparency HAS to be across the board, it's all to easy to finger point at other departments, and have them looked into, whilst knowing you're untouchable.. NO ORGANISATION in Thailand should be unapproachable, or exempt from being Investigated for acts of corruption.

STOP all these officers serving in the RTA who are "paid" board members of other organisations, that's a conflict of interest right from the start.

Don't you recall the RTA Captain who also owned a PR firm given lucrative contracts by the Junta too?

All the bad things about Nepotism and Cronyism within he PTP are still very pertinent to the current Junta mate..

In my line of work we call this a simple "change of t-shirts" when one company replaces another.

Thailand has a problem which needs correcting, by law, by enforcing laws and mostly by 'attitude changes'.

To only jump on the RTA like Heybruce does seems more politically motivated than from a real wish to help the country forward.

Because rubl me old china', it's the military here that are the one charged with the (self appointed) job of trying to 'better' Thailand. The PTP have been taken to the cleaners and yeah they deserve it, but heybruce in his posts has pointed out alarming things going on within the military. Why are they completely exempt from investigation? Why is there never any high profile generals or colonels being publicly investigated for ill doings? Don't go and tell me it doesn't go on in the RTA now

If Prayuth tomorrow starting cracking skulls in his own house then some here might respect him a bit more. But he won't, he is neck deep in self interest just like Thaksin is, just different colours and backers.

I'd rather get the transition back to democracy on the way and get an elected government thinking about the country, applying laws for and to all and therefore automatically include their government organisations of which the military is one.

Asking Prayut to clean up his own house first seems like acknowledging the need for him to stay on.

[Fat Haggis]

I disagree Uncle Rubs, the Military have always avoided being looked at with a fine tooth comb, when it comes to corruption, come on mate, their Generals are all in the Super Rich bracket, doesn't that pique your interest as to why?

Gambling is illegal in Thailand, so investing in stocks and shares isn't a form of gambling?

Transparency HAS to be across the board, it's all to easy to finger point at other departments, and have them looked into, whilst knowing you're untouchable.. NO ORGANISATION in Thailand should be unapproachable, or exempt from being Investigated for acts of corruption.

STOP all these officers serving in the RTA who are "paid" board members of other organisations, that's a conflict of interest right from the start.

Don't you recall the RTA Captain who also owned a PR firm given lucrative contracts by the Junta too?

All the bad things about Nepotism and Cronyism within he PTP are still very pertinent to the current Junta mate..

In my line of work we call this a simple "change of t-shirts" when one company replaces another.

Thailand has a problem which needs correcting, by law, by enforcing laws and mostly by 'attitude changes'.

To only jump on the RTA like Heybruce does seems more politically motivated than from a real wish to help the country forward.

Because rubl me old china', it's the military here that are the one charged with the (self appointed) job of trying to 'better' Thailand. The PTP have been taken to the cleaners and yeah they deserve it, but heybruce in his posts has pointed out alarming things going on within the military. Why are they completely exempt from investigation? Why is there never any high profile generals or colonels being publicly investigated for ill doings? Don't go and tell me it doesn't go on in the RTA now

If Prayuth tomorrow starting cracking skulls in his own house then some here might respect him a bit more. But he won't, he is neck deep in self interest just like Thaksin is, just different colours and backers.

I'd rather get the transition back to democracy on the way and get an elected government thinking about the country, applying laws for and to all and therefore automatically include their government organisations of which the military is one.

Asking Prayut to clean up his own house first seems like acknowledging the need for him to stay on.

So in other words, you'd be quite happy to turn a blind eye to the only organization that has NO checks or Balances and that is totally exempt from any form of Investigative checks? Just so the country can get back towards some form of democracy?

As long as the Military always have that ULTIMATE power, which they seem to hold, then as far as I'm concerned mate, they have a cheek calling for transparency from any other organisation.

You want to be seen as being above the law, open the doors and the books for audit purposes show there's nothing to hide, until they do that, I'll still view them as "suspicious"

Don't you ever wonder where their ever increasing budget goes to ?

[heybruce]

Good question, Heybruce.

It should be clear it has nothing to do with Democracy as we know it in the West, or as we would Thailand to have it.

What 'all this' has to do with the topic of "clinging to power" should be obvious (excuses for using that term), except for those who do not want to see, that is.

Thaksin was clearly talking about the Thai Rak Thai party winning elections for twenty years by giving the people the government they wanted. Are you aware that there is a difference between staying in power by winning elections and using the military to seize and hold onto power?

Yingluck campaigned on a promise to be Thaksin's clone and won an internationally monitored election; the voters clearly wanted Thaksin influencing the Thai government.

I'm not sure why having twenty years to bring Thaksin to trial is significant to anything here.

So, in a topic about the PM threatening to hold onto power indefinitely, you bring up the electoral success of the Thai Rak Thai party and the fact that Yingluck campaigned on a promise to a conduit for Thaksin and won the election resoundingly. Once again, I don't see how your post is pertinent to the OP.

Oh boy, and for a moment I thought you were a proponent of real democracies. Those where by law 'self-exiled' fugitives cannot run a party, be elected, select the PM and skype-in into cabinet meetings to give orders.

2013-01-30

"For the past year and a half, by the party’s own admission, the most important political decisions in this country of 65 million people have been made from abroad, by a former prime minister who has been in self-imposed exile since 2008 to escape corruption charges."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/world/asia/thaksin-shinawatra-of-thailand-wields-influence-from-afar.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Of course being 'allowed' such freedom is much, much better than having to stage a coup which is automatically condemned. Better to subvert a democratic system already faulty. Better a Thai pretty for perception while running the country as a family property. Make the voters believe they have a say in things, promise a lot and give a little.

In the mean time we'll all condemn PM Prayut for even thinking aloud of maybe staying on, but then he must be a bit of a masochist for wanting to stay on.

What democracy says that the PM can not accept and follow advice from any source he or she chooses?

You can stop looking up references, nobody disputes that Yingluck was listening to and acting upon advice from Thaksin. That's what she promised to do during her campaign, and that probably contributed significantly to the PTP victory. You don't have to approve of it, it's what the Thai people chose.

Yes, I and others condemn Prayuth for suggesting he will stay in power indefinitely, and many other things. The condemnation is justified and necessary. Sometimes richardtators step aside after enduring too much pressure from inside and outside the country. That's what caused the generals in Myanmar to eventually, partially, relinquish power. I hope that pressure on Prayuth continues and prevents him from dragging Thailand down the path Myanmar went down.

[heybruce]

It's more that you are so keen on highlighting 'corrupt military' as if to turn people away from other and greater corruption games.

So, nothing practical again. Very theoratical is your "They attempted to give the voters the chance to remove them from power democratically". Still you seem to believe it.

The military is the organization in charge, claiming it will 'reform' Thailand, and writing a constitution that will guarantee it's power and immunity from outside interference. It is also the corrupt institution that no Thai government has ever dared investigate. I've repeatedly made it clear that I think corruption should be tackled in all of government, but obviously the priority should be on the organization in charge.

I also have made it clear that I don't support what the military has done and is doing. You and others make it clear that your willing to go along with it. Now we have a richardtator threatening to make himself permanent PM and you seem to have no problem with that.

You are clearly quite comfortable with a miltary richardtator. I think it's foolish to accept such a person and believe in applying constant pressure and resistance so he doesn't get comfortable on the job. The alternatives are either letting Thailand regress to the state that Myanmar is trying to climb out of, or a bloody rebellion.

There is nothing theoretical about changing governments through elections. It happens all over the world. It even happened in Thailand in 2011. Didn't you notice?

Oh I did notice, so did the world and after a while the world also acknowledged that the criminal fugitive Thaksin was running the show. All because as a 'real' democracy Thailand had elections.

As I wrote, much better than staging a coup. Be seen as 'victim', be in charge, get to grow your personel fortune, have your family employed AND have TVF posters who are all for democracy even be all in favour of you for knowing how to manipulate the system.

So, Prayut threatens where Thaksin 'only' speculated on being able to stay on and even managed from afar.

Yeah, 'real' democracy has elections, and real democrats accept election results even when they don't like them. Quite a few people in Thailand, including one comically misnamed party, are unreal democrats who only accept elections when they approve of the results. I place you in that category.

Back to the OP; we have a junta leader threatening to stay in power indefinitely and ridiculing calls for elections. I strongly suspect that his and other general's fortunes will be growing handsomely, but of course there won't be any investigations and you don't seem to think investigations are necessary. I disapprove of Prayuth for this and many other reasons. You clearly approve, but then you're an unreal democrat.

[rubl]

Because rubl me old china', it's the military here that are the one charged with the (self appointed) job of trying to 'better' Thailand. The PTP have been taken to the cleaners and yeah they deserve it, but heybruce in his posts has pointed out alarming things going on within the military. Why are they completely exempt from investigation? Why is there never any high profile generals or colonels being publicly investigated for ill doings? Don't go and tell me it doesn't go on in the RTA now

If Prayuth tomorrow starting cracking skulls in his own house then some here might respect him a bit more. But he won't, he is neck deep in self interest just like Thaksin is, just different colours and backers.

I'd rather get the transition back to democracy on the way and get an elected government thinking about the country, applying laws for and to all and therefore automatically include their government organisations of which the military is one.

Asking Prayut to clean up his own house first seems like acknowledging the need for him to stay on.

So in other words, you'd be quite happy to turn a blind eye to the only organization that has NO checks or Balances and that is totally exempt from any form of Investigative checks? Just so the country can get back towards some form of democracy?

As long as the Military always have that ULTIMATE power, which they seem to hold, then as far as I'm concerned mate, they have a cheek calling for transparency from any other organisation.

You want to be seen as being above the law, open the doors and the books for audit purposes show there's nothing to hide, until they do that, I'll still view them as "suspicious"

Don't you ever wonder where their ever increasing budget goes to ?

I'm still of the opinion that if the grass root groups had been less politisized and wholeheartedly (or seemingly so) had applied to co-operate in the reforms the junta would have had no choice but to have more and better reforms than we may get now. That is under the assumption that with overwhelming support they couldn't just say "but, but, this is not what we meant" as they would look very foolish if they did.

No I'm not happy turning a blind eye on an organisation which has limited checks and balances and is mostly exempt from too inquisitive investigations. I'm just being pragmatic. If the Military are what you describe demanding from PM Prayut to cleanup is like leaving him no choice but to ignore you if he is to get any work done.

BTW 'ever increasing budgets' sounds nice, but has no real meaning. As far as I know all budgets are ever increasing, apart from the budgets cut by the Yingluck government, regarding NACC, ombudsman and a few other too nosy independent organisations.

So, Prayut threatens to stay on.

PS I have doubts he will do this, but there is the distinct possibility that one day he'll just drop everything and tell people to sort it out themselves if they really think they can do better

Edited March 28, 2015 by rubl

[heybruce]

Because rubl me old china', it's the military here that are the one charged with the (self appointed) job of trying to 'better' Thailand. The PTP have been taken to the cleaners and yeah they deserve it, but heybruce in his posts has pointed out alarming things going on within the military. Why are they completely exempt from investigation? Why is there never any high profile generals or colonels being publicly investigated for ill doings? Don't go and tell me it doesn't go on in the RTA now

If Prayuth tomorrow starting cracking skulls in his own house then some here might respect him a bit more. But he won't, he is neck deep in self interest just like Thaksin is, just different colours and backers.

I'd rather get the transition back to democracy on the way and get an elected government thinking about the country, applying laws for and to all and therefore automatically include their government organisations of which the military is one.

Asking Prayut to clean up his own house first seems like acknowledging the need for him to stay on.

So in other words, you'd be quite happy to turn a blind eye to the only organization that has NO checks or Balances and that is totally exempt from any form of Investigative checks? Just so the country can get back towards some form of democracy?

As long as the Military always have that ULTIMATE power, which they seem to hold, then as far as I'm concerned mate, they have a cheek calling for transparency from any other organisation.

You want to be seen as being above the law, open the doors and the books for audit purposes show there's nothing to hide, until they do that, I'll still view them as "suspicious"

Don't you ever wonder where their ever increasing budget goes to ?

I'm still of the opinion that if the grass root groups had been less politisized and wholeheartedly (or seemingly so) had applied to co-operate in the reforms the junta would have had no choice but to have more and better reforms than we may get now. That is under the assumption that with overwhelming support they couldn't just say "but, but, this is not what we meant" as they would look very foolish if they did.

No I'm not happy turning a blind eye on an organisation which has limited checks and balances and is mostly exempt from too inquisitive investigations. I'm just being pragmatic. If the Military are what you describe demanding from PM Prayut to cleanup is like leaving him no choice but to ignore you if he is to get any work done.

BTW 'ever increasing budgets' sounds nice, but has no real meaning. As far as I know all budgets are ever increasing, apart from the budgets cut by the Yingluck government, regarding NACC, ombudsman and a few other too nosy independent organisations.

So, Prayut threatens to stay on.

Do you mean the grass roots groups of less than five people? Anything more was banned.

Of course you are speculating on whether any additional inputs would have made a difference. In view of Prayuth's repeatedly demonstrated hostility to criticism and questions, I don't think ideas contrary to his own would have been accepted.

[rubl]

It's more that you are so keen on highlighting 'corrupt military' as if to turn people away from other and greater corruption games.

So, nothing practical again. Very theoratical is your "They attempted to give the voters the chance to remove them from power democratically". Still you seem to believe it.

The military is the organization in charge, claiming it will 'reform' Thailand, and writing a constitution that will guarantee it's power and immunity from outside interference. It is also the corrupt institution that no Thai government has ever dared investigate. I've repeatedly made it clear that I think corruption should be tackled in all of government, but obviously the priority should be on the organization in charge.

I also have made it clear that I don't support what the military has done and is doing. You and others make it clear that your willing to go along with it. Now we have a richardtator threatening to make himself permanent PM and you seem to have no problem with that.

You are clearly quite comfortable with a miltary richardtator. I think it's foolish to accept such a person and believe in applying constant pressure and resistance so he doesn't get comfortable on the job. The alternatives are either letting Thailand regress to the state that Myanmar is trying to climb out of, or a bloody rebellion.

There is nothing theoretical about changing governments through elections. It happens all over the world. It even happened in Thailand in 2011. Didn't you notice?

Oh I did notice, so did the world and after a while the world also acknowledged that the criminal fugitive Thaksin was running the show. All because as a 'real' democracy Thailand had elections.

As I wrote, much better than staging a coup. Be seen as 'victim', be in charge, get to grow your personel fortune, have your family employed AND have TVF posters who are all for democracy even be all in favour of you for knowing how to manipulate the system.

So, Prayut threatens where Thaksin 'only' speculated on being able to stay on and even managed from afar.

Yeah, 'real' democracy has elections, and real democrats accept election results even when they don't like them. Quite a few people in Thailand, including one comically misnamed party, are unreal democrats who only accept elections when they approve of the results. I place you in that category.

Back to the OP; we have a junta leader threatening to stay in power indefinitely and ridiculing calls for elections. I strongly suspect that his and other general's fortunes will be growing handsomely, but of course there won't be any investigations and you don't seem to think investigations are necessary. I disapprove of Prayuth for this and many other reasons. You clearly approve, but then you're an unreal democrat.

In 'real' democracies a criminal fugitive would not have gotten the possibility to have his party partake in elections.

As for your 'strong' suspicion, probably based on "history tells us"? I didn't say I think investigations are not necessary, I only suggested that they can wait. You disapprove of Prayut seemingly because you suspect something and you simply state that your suspicion will not be investigated.

I only disapprove of Prayut as not being able to shake off a lot of baggage, not that that should really surprise though. He doesn't seem to be able to shake off opponents either.

[rubl]

I'd rather get the transition back to democracy on the way and get an elected government thinking about the country, applying laws for and to all and therefore automatically include their government organisations of which the military is one.

Asking Prayut to clean up his own house first seems like acknowledging the need for him to stay on.

So in other words, you'd be quite happy to turn a blind eye to the only organization that has NO checks or Balances and that is totally exempt from any form of Investigative checks? Just so the country can get back towards some form of democracy?

As long as the Military always have that ULTIMATE power, which they seem to hold, then as far as I'm concerned mate, they have a cheek calling for transparency from any other organisation.

You want to be seen as being above the law, open the doors and the books for audit purposes show there's nothing to hide, until they do that, I'll still view them as "suspicious"

Don't you ever wonder where their ever increasing budget goes to ?

I'm still of the opinion that if the grass root groups had been less politisized and wholeheartedly (or seemingly so) had applied to co-operate in the reforms the junta would have had no choice but to have more and better reforms than we may get now. That is under the assumption that with overwhelming support they couldn't just say "but, but, this is not what we meant" as they would look very foolish if they did.

No I'm not happy turning a blind eye on an organisation which has limited checks and balances and is mostly exempt from too inquisitive investigations. I'm just being pragmatic. If the Military are what you describe demanding from PM Prayut to cleanup is like leaving him no choice but to ignore you if he is to get any work done.

BTW 'ever increasing budgets' sounds nice, but has no real meaning. As far as I know all budgets are ever increasing, apart from the budgets cut by the Yingluck government, regarding NACC, ombudsman and a few other too nosy independent organisations.

So, Prayut threatens to stay on.

Do you mean the grass roots groups of less than five people? Anything more was banned.

Of course you are speculating on whether any additional inputs would have made a difference. In view of Prayuth's repeatedly demonstrated hostility to criticism and questions, I don't think ideas contrary to his own would have been accepted.

Grass root groups do not need to gather in order to have their members apply for co-operation in the various reform groups. Also the NRC has/had organised gatherings to which all could come and help.

Of course I'm speculating, just like you. Also from posts here you should be able to see that there are many ways of phrasing your questions and answers. Did you already forget the US Envoy with his 'work on perception'? Well, Q&A can be phrased in ways much more difficult to reject without being seen as obstinate, or even obdurate.

So, while some keep on hackling, PM Prayut will stay (or at least he threatens he will).

[AZBill]

What's all this fuss about personal choice and freedom? Who needs such silly things! Only your dictator needs such things because he considers you as a nation too stupid to decide such things for yourselves!

[dharmabm]

while this seems like a great story and has provoked such intellectual discussion, am i the only one who noticed that the article doesn't appear ANYWHERE on the actual AFP website?!?!

[heybruce]

The military is the organization in charge, claiming it will 'reform' Thailand, and writing a constitution that will guarantee it's power and immunity from outside interference. It is also the corrupt institution that no Thai government has ever dared investigate. I've repeatedly made it clear that I think corruption should be tackled in all of government, but obviously the priority should be on the organization in charge.

I also have made it clear that I don't support what the military has done and is doing. You and others make it clear that your willing to go along with it. Now we have a richardtator threatening to make himself permanent PM and you seem to have no problem with that.

You are clearly quite comfortable with a miltary richardtator. I think it's foolish to accept such a person and believe in applying constant pressure and resistance so he doesn't get comfortable on the job. The alternatives are either letting Thailand regress to the state that Myanmar is trying to climb out of, or a bloody rebellion.

There is nothing theoretical about changing governments through elections. It happens all over the world. It even happened in Thailand in 2011. Didn't you notice?

Oh I did notice, so did the world and after a while the world also acknowledged that the criminal fugitive Thaksin was running the show. All because as a 'real' democracy Thailand had elections.

As I wrote, much better than staging a coup. Be seen as 'victim', be in charge, get to grow your personel fortune, have your family employed AND have TVF posters who are all for democracy even be all in favour of you for knowing how to manipulate the system.

So, Prayut threatens where Thaksin 'only' speculated on being able to stay on and even managed from afar.

Yeah, 'real' democracy has elections, and real democrats accept election results even when they don't like them. Quite a few people in Thailand, including one comically misnamed party, are unreal democrats who only accept elections when they approve of the results. I place you in that category.

Back to the OP; we have a junta leader threatening to stay in power indefinitely and ridiculing calls for elections. I strongly suspect that his and other general's fortunes will be growing handsomely, but of course there won't be any investigations and you don't seem to think investigations are necessary. I disapprove of Prayuth for this and many other reasons. You clearly approve, but then you're an unreal democrat.

In 'real' democracies a criminal fugitive would not have gotten the possibility to have his party partake in elections.

As for your 'strong' suspicion, probably based on "history tells us"? I didn't say I think investigations are not necessary, I only suggested that they can wait. You disapprove of Prayut seemingly because you suspect something and you simply state that your suspicion will not be investigated.

I only disapprove of Prayut as not being able to shake off a lot of baggage, not that that should really surprise though. He doesn't seem to be able to shake off opponents either.

"In 'real' democracies a criminal fugitive would not have gotten the possibility to have his party partake in elections."

Really? Can you give examples of countries and laws that forbid parties with prominent figures who have been convicted of crimes from participating in elections? In my country that would not be illegal but it would be an election issue, just as it was in Thailand back when this country had elections.

A corrupt military has staged a coup, is running the country, is writing a constitution giving it more power and politicians less along with giving the military amnesty for past acts, and you think investigations can wait until...when? Until all semblance of democracy is gone and the military has formalized its absolute control and immunity from the law?

As I stated before, I disapprove of Prayuth for many things, the well founded suspicion that he and other generals will enrich themselves while mismanaging the country is just one of them. His threat to hold onto power indefinitely is another.

Edited March 28, 2015 by heybruce

[EyesWideOpen]

Does Prayut have a son ? Can we look forward to a North Korean style government ?

[heybruce]

So in other words, you'd be quite happy to turn a blind eye to the only organization that has NO checks or Balances and that is totally exempt from any form of Investigative checks? Just so the country can get back towards some form of democracy?

As long as the Military always have that ULTIMATE power, which they seem to hold, then as far as I'm concerned mate, they have a cheek calling for transparency from any other organisation.

You want to be seen as being above the law, open the doors and the books for audit purposes show there's nothing to hide, until they do that, I'll still view them as "suspicious"

Don't you ever wonder where their ever increasing budget goes to ?

I'm still of the opinion that if the grass root groups had been less politisized and wholeheartedly (or seemingly so) had applied to co-operate in the reforms the junta would have had no choice but to have more and better reforms than we may get now. That is under the assumption that with overwhelming support they couldn't just say "but, but, this is not what we meant" as they would look very foolish if they did.

No I'm not happy turning a blind eye on an organisation which has limited checks and balances and is mostly exempt from too inquisitive investigations. I'm just being pragmatic. If the Military are what you describe demanding from PM Prayut to cleanup is like leaving him no choice but to ignore you if he is to get any work done.

BTW 'ever increasing budgets' sounds nice, but has no real meaning. As far as I know all budgets are ever increasing, apart from the budgets cut by the Yingluck government, regarding NACC, ombudsman and a few other too nosy independent organisations.

So, Prayut threatens to stay on.

Do you mean the grass roots groups of less than five people? Anything more was banned.

Of course you are speculating on whether any additional inputs would have made a difference. In view of Prayuth's repeatedly demonstrated hostility to criticism and questions, I don't think ideas contrary to his own would have been accepted.

Grass root groups do not need to gather in order to have their members apply for co-operation in the various reform groups. Also the NRC has/had organised gatherings to which all could come and help.

Of course I'm speculating, just like you. Also from posts here you should be able to see that there are many ways of phrasing your questions and answers. Did you already forget the US Envoy with his 'work on perception'? Well, Q&A can be phrased in ways much more difficult to reject without being seen as obstinate, or even obdurate.

So, while some keep on hackling, PM Prayut will stay (or at least he threatens he will).

No need to challenge this post, I'll let it stand or fall on its own merits.

[sirineou]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I told you Prime Minister..........Think before you open your mouth........think and don't let anger overcome you.

You are not an Army man any more, you are the Prime Minister of Thailand.

If you could do that sometimes.......you would have been the best.

Thats a shame Costas mate , If it wasn't for that last line I would have awarded you one my likes

I dont know why you complain, he certainly would had being the best,

The question is the best what?

and I agree with Costas, he is not in the army any more where not thinking before you talk is standard operating procedure .

Now he has to think, walk and chew gum all at the same time .

[lucky11]

I pray that he does stay for longer as he is still doing a better job than any previous 'democratically elected' government has ever done.

We don't need elections as what we have got now is far superior IMHO.

If people appreciate what he did rather than run him down all the time then the need to retaliate would not arise and he would not vent his frustration at the miffed press because they've been told to behave!!

[yellowboat]

I pray that he does stay for longer as he is still doing a better job than any previous 'democratically elected' government has ever done.

We don't need elections as what we have got now is far superior IMHO.

If people appreciate what he did rather than run him down all the time then the need to retaliate would not arise and he would not vent his frustration at the miffed press because they've been told to behave!!

After coup, many of us have stopped or scaled back business in Thailand. Many Thais have lost out as foreigners are wary of the country. The general still creates doubt in most people's minds.

You have yet to give any substantive facts, but rather, have just drone on about your man crush on the general. He has, in his latest gaff, put vile Thai elites before human decency with regards to slave labor on fishing vessels. When the story became international news he was forced to condemn it.

[lucky11]

I pray that he does stay for longer as he is still doing a better job than any previous 'democratically elected' government has ever done.

We don't need elections as what we have got now is far superior IMHO.

If people appreciate what he did rather than run him down all the time then the need to retaliate would not arise and he would not vent his frustration at the miffed press because they've been told to behave!!

After coup, many of us have stopped or scaled back business in Thailand. Many Thais have lost out as foreigners are wary of the country. The general still creates doubt in most people's minds.

You have yet to give any substantive facts, but rather, have just drone on about your man crush on the general. He has, in his latest gaff, put vile Thai elites before human decency with regards to slave labor on fishing vessels. When the story became international news he was forced to condemn it.

The doubt (because you won't give him a chance) is more of a risk than over a year ago with the dying embers of the Yingluck government plus the violence and bombs plus the shutting down of Bangkok was!!! It beats me how this can be the case and if it is, then yours and other's businessman acumen who think this way must be regarded as being highly questionable to say the least .

Did the 'slave labour' fishing problem not exist 10 months ago? NO!!, It has been ongoing for years - what did Yingluck do about it during her 4 years? At least Prayuth is cleaning up this abhorrent exploitation after it was revealed by reporters rightly highlighting their plight'!!

Do you know where a majority of the product of this 'slave labour' ends up. Let me tell you, it ends up on the shelves of Kroger, Albertson's, Safeway, Walmart (the US's largest retailer) and the biggest food distributor in the US Sysco to name a few and they have the audacity to criticise Thailand when they support this evil practice in the name of profits!!

Oh!! .......and other Asian countries along with Europe also buy from Thailand to profit from these poor individuals so they should all hang their heads in shame.

Despicable that they support slave labour. They should copy Prayuth's determination to put a halt to this instead of being hypocrites.

[a99az]

460 × 287 - quickmeme.com

Reminds me of this guy.

[yellowboat]

I pray that he does stay for longer as he is still doing a better job than any previous 'democratically elected' government has ever done.

We don't need elections as what we have got now is far superior IMHO.

If people appreciate what he did rather than run him down all the time then the need to retaliate would not arise and he would not vent his frustration at the miffed press because they've been told to behave!!

After coup, many of us have stopped or scaled back business in Thailand. Many Thais have lost out as foreigners are wary of the country. The general still creates doubt in most people's minds.

You have yet to give any substantive facts, but rather, have just drone on about your man crush on the general. He has, in his latest gaff, put vile Thai elites before human decency with regards to slave labor on fishing vessels. When the story became international news he was forced to condemn it.

The doubt (because you won't give him a chance) is more of a risk than over a year ago with the dying embers of the Yingluck government plus the violence and bombs plus the shutting down of Bangkok was!!! It beats me how this can be the case and if it is, then yours and other's businessman acumen who think this way must be regarded as being highly questionable to say the least .

Did the 'slave labour' fishing problem not exist 10 months ago? NO!!, It has been ongoing for years - what did Yingluck do about it during her 4 years? At least Prayuth is cleaning up this abhorrent exploitation after it was revealed by reporters rightly highlighting their plight'!!

Do you know where a majority of the product of this 'slave labour' ends up. Let me tell you, it ends up on the shelves of Kroger, Albertson's, Safeway, Walmart (the US's largest retailer) and the biggest food distributor in the US Sysco to name a few and they have the audacity to criticise Thailand when they support this evil practice in the name of profits!!

Oh!! .......and other Asian countries along with Europe also buy from Thailand to profit from these poor individuals so they should all hang their heads in shame.

Despicable that they support slave labour. They should copy Prayuth's determination to put a halt to this instead of being hypocrites.

The doubt has come from all the damage he has already caused and from his lack of interest in freedoms and humanity.

The violence should have been dealt with by law enforcement. The army and police failed here. Having lived near the yellow encampments, there was evidence of violence on both sides. It shows your bias that you do nothing other than blame Yingluck. This is another reason to avoid the country entirely. Your point of view is fairly common and cancerous.

The good general is cleaning up the problem because he has NO choice now. He is afraid of sanctions and that the country will loose revenue, and the problem has been one going for years. As head of the military, the good general could have done something, but he did nothing. It is and was a total failure for everyone in government. Hope the reporter to broke the story gets an international award.

The companies that resell these products now know and will have to act accordingly. They cannot claim ignorance any longer. If wrong, correct me, but isn't Europe the main customer for Thai sea food, not America ?

Deflecting guilt towards the west every time Thailand gets caught doing something horrible is getting old too.

Well, now that they do know for certain, we can only hope they do what the good general fears most; start boycotts and enact sanctions.

[NCFC]

A German citizen,Friedrich Kellner, wrote some prophetic words on September 17, 1939. They are just as appropriate today.

Who carries the blame? The people without a brain! To trample democracy with one’s feet and give power to a single man over almost eighty million people is so terrible that one can really tremble over the things that will come.

A people allow an idea to be poured and hammered into them, follow narrow-mindedly every suggestion, let themselves be stepped on, tormented, conned, exhausted--and must, in addition, under national control, call out "Heil Hitler." In this, one can feel only deep mourning in his heart over such a dreadful age and over the sheep-like patience of an entire population. Are there not at all any men? I believe I can answer this question in the negative. These people can be compared only with a herd that is led to the slaughterhouse, and like this herd not even conscious of their strength and their misery.

[patrickl]

If anybody from the Thai government reads the comments of these 8 pages, they will block thaivisa.com, arrest the owners and throw them into jail. Then track down everybody's IP address and deport them.

Be careful, guys ...we're not living under evil Thaksin anymore. This is worse.

[lucky11]

I pray that he does stay for longer as he is still doing a better job than any previous 'democratically elected' government has ever done.

We don't need elections as what we have got now is far superior IMHO.

If people appreciate what he did rather than run him down all the time then the need to retaliate would not arise and he would not vent his frustration at the miffed press because they've been told to behave!!

After coup, many of us have stopped or scaled back business in Thailand. Many Thais have lost out as foreigners are wary of the country. The general still creates doubt in most people's minds.

You have yet to give any substantive facts, but rather, have just drone on about your man crush on the general. He has, in his latest gaff, put vile Thai elites before human decency with regards to slave labor on fishing vessels. When the story became international news he was forced to condemn it.

The doubt (because you won't give him a chance) is more of a risk than over a year ago with the dying embers of the Yingluck government plus the violence and bombs plus the shutting down of Bangkok was!!! It beats me how this can be the case and if it is, then yours and other's businessman acumen who think this way must be regarded as being highly questionable to say the least .

Did the 'slave labour' fishing problem not exist 10 months ago? NO!!, It has been ongoing for years - what did Yingluck do about it during her 4 years? At least Prayuth is cleaning up this abhorrent exploitation after it was revealed by reporters rightly highlighting their plight'!!

Do you know where a majority of the product of this 'slave labour' ends up. Let me tell you, it ends up on the shelves of Kroger, Albertson's, Safeway, Walmart (the US's largest retailer) and the biggest food distributor in the US Sysco to name a few and they have the audacity to criticise Thailand when they support this evil practice in the name of profits!!

Oh!! .......and other Asian countries along with Europe also buy from Thailand to profit from these poor individuals so they should all hang their heads in shame.

Despicable that they support slave labour. They should copy Prayuth's determination to put a halt to this instead of being hypocrites.

The doubt has come from all the damage he has already caused and from his lack of interest in freedoms and humanity.

The violence should have been dealt with by law enforcement. The army and police failed here. Having lived near the yellow encampments, there was evidence of violence on both sides. It shows your bias that you do nothing other than blame Yingluck. This is another reason to avoid the country entirely. Your point of view is fairly common and cancerous.

The good general is cleaning up the problem because he has NO choice now. He is afraid of sanctions and that the country will loose revenue, and the problem has been one going for years. As head of the military, the good general could have done something, but he did nothing. It is and was a total failure for everyone in government. Hope the reporter to broke the story gets an international award.

The companies that resell these products now know and will have to act accordingly. They cannot claim ignorance any longer. If wrong, correct me, but isn't Europe the main customer for Thai sea food, not America ?

Deflecting guilt towards the west every time Thailand gets caught doing something horrible is getting old too.

Well, now that they do know for certain, we can only hope they do what the good general fears most; start boycotts and enact sanctions.

From the Nation.

THAILAND is still shipping seafood to the United States and Europe as normal despite the recent accusations of slave labour, according to the Commerce Ministry's survey of trading partners and Thai exporters.

"Importers are still ordering Thai fishery products as usual. Exports to the US and the European Union should not be affected by the problem," Srirat Rastapana, permanent secretary of the Commerce Ministry, said yesterday.

However, the Thai fishery industry needs to fix its image soon, as it could make sales abroad difficult and factor into consumers' decision-making in the future, analysts warn.

Thai trade officials in the US and EU markets have reported that Thai shipments to the US have not yet slowed down after Washington downgraded Thailand in its human-trafficking report because most importers and consumers still have high confidence in Thai fishery firms, which have done business with them for many years.

Japan is the largest market for Thai fishery exports so far this year, taking 27.1 per cent of total exports by value. In the first four months, the US accounted for 17.1 per cent, the EU for 13 per cent, mainland China 6.1 per cent, Vietnam 5.2 per cent, South Korea 5.1 per cent, Hong Kong 3.9 per cent and Canada 2.8 per cent.

[yellowboat]

I pray that he does stay for longer as he is still doing a better job than any previous 'democratically elected' government has ever done.

We don't need elections as what we have got now is far superior IMHO.

If people appreciate what he did rather than run him down all the time then the need to retaliate would not arise and he would not vent his frustration at the miffed press because they've been told to behave!!

Some people love authoritarian, strongman, rule-by-decree government where people shut-up and obey or else. You know, the D-word kind of government. It's pointless trying to explain to these people that the majority of people would rather not live under a d*******ship.

They seemed to have enjoyed their time under a dictator in Singapore. Someone much stricter and intolerant of dissenters.

The country didn't do too bad either!!

Yeah, but compare that to Taiwan. Singapore for YEARS tried to get Taiwanese to settle in Singapore with very little success. Why ? Because they had greater personal freedoms at home. Singapore offered little incentive. Comparatively, the Taiwanese have a much more sound government and a happier people. Something you and Thailand should look at seriously.