Alone at controls, co-pilot sought to 'destroy' the plane

[neverdie]

You can have two crew in the cockpit at all times and the mental case could get up as if he's going to the toilet and then blindside his offsides with a devastating punch or use something to choke him.....wouldn't be too hard to do and ur very vulnerable to attack when seated and strapped in.

After that it's game on for 35000 foot nose dive.

Having two at all times makes it no safer, the attack will just be different.

[IMA_FARANG]

I have watched this on CNN for nearly 3 days...... they have done extensive coverage on it.

The one point they have not covered though is the report that German Wings ..... the budget subsidiary of Lufthansa had problems with staff due to their plans of cutting expenses though planned "redundancies" .... including possibly pilots.

According to the reporting this 28 year old junior pilot had wanted ever since being a child to become a pilot for Lufthansa, it had always been his dream and obsession since he was a young child.

I wonder, was he recently told he might be made redundant due to budget cuts?

That could easily have made him depressed and quite possibly angry enough at Lufthansa to put him over he edge to a violent or suicidal mood where he would be likely to "strike back" at the Lufthansa management.

Just a theory.

[northernphil]

Many comments here end in RIP, and rightly so but the freinds and relatives won't rest , sleepless nights for them thinking how their loved ones died knowing they were going to die when they could see the mountains around them ,the end for them must of been quick but not the minutes before. Just awful !

[NeverSure]

'Thought I saw a headline somewhere just the other day about the possibility of mandatory automated cars (that is, ones where you don't even get the option to drive!) in the not too distant future. 'Maybe coming to an airline near you even sooner.

I think we're a long way away from that. A car has just two axis (axes,) left and right. A plane has multiple - left, right, up, down, bank left, right, and so on. They are used in combination to control the plane. Watch these guys in strong and sometimes buffeting crosswind landings where they have to crab into the wind and use power to keep from getting blown sideways from over the runway. This is just an example of sensory skill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POu1e71OlMo

[micmichd]

Here's another theory:

The guy reported his mental issues to his employer, and then got stigmatized. He wanted to fly an airplane, but they would only let him work as a flight attendant. He complained about being mobbed, and everyone was afraid he'd run mad.

He felt society would exclude him.

He was a Farang, so human life didn't mean too much for him. It was his personal career he was after. Society refused to let him have this career.

So he went for revenge - against society.

As being an egocentric individualist, he didn't give a damn about the lives of the members of a society that refused him.

He killed them all in revenge.

Only a theory.

[deepcell]

It is what media is saying. Who really knows the truth? The media always manipulate the people! Was there "someone" VIP in this flight? Nowadays it is quite normal make up an accident to kill some specific one. Anyway my condolences for the families, God confort them in this dark time.

[slipperylobster]

The worst part is that we will probably never know why he chose to kill all those inside, as well as himself. Perhaps he was trying to hurt the airlines in the worst way possible. Could it be that some information has yet to be released, that is on record? I imagine, if he felt this vengeful, that there are some serious issues that have not surface.

Whatever the facts, the man definitely will be burning the devil's latrine bucket for eternity.

[phuketjock]

Brilliant reactions by executives of Airbus, Lufthansa, Germanwings. Within hours they visited the disaster area. Relatives and the press were informed about first conclusions incredibly fast. No stupid games, no spinning attempts. That's the way to handle such a situation. Asian airlines watch this in amazement.

Yes especially the Lufthansa/Germanwings exec who when asked " in the light of what has happened will Lufthansa/Germanwings now be ensuring that there is always more than one person in the cockpit" astonishingly replied "I see no reason to change our procedures at this time "

Yes Brilliant truly brilliant...........................

[Lupatria]

How do they know he didn't have a freak medical event?

I just read something on the German magazine FOCUS

http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/er-steuerte-den-airbus-in-die-felsen-vermerk-in-akte-zeigt-andreas-l-hatte-massive-psychologische-probleme_id_4573954.html

It gives new information about the co-pilot. Here an excerpt translated from the German text:

A note at the Federal Aviation Authority in the files of Lubitz indicates massive psychological problems. The file contains the code "SIC". This abbreviation stands for a "special, exemplary regular medical examination". This means in plain text, Lubitz therefore had to undergo regular monitoring by a physician. The man had to attend one session even before the tragedy last Tuesday in "special, exemplary regular medical" care. The "SIC" note is also found in the pilot's license of Andreas Lubitz.

I'm curious if those in charge at Lufthansa / German Wings and their "Psychologists" will ever be held responsible and brought to justice for their incompetence.

Reminds me on the slogan of Air Asia: "Now everyone can fly" and that's what seems to be the problem here. After all, people in Germany who smoked hashish before driving a car, get their driver license revoked but mentally ill pilots obviously have no problems to keep their airline transport pilot license ...

[White Christmas13]

Here's another theory:

The guy reported his mental issues to his employer, and then got stigmatized. He wanted to fly an airplane, but they would only let him work as a flight attendant. He complained about being mobbed, and everyone was afraid he'd run mad.

He felt society would exclude him.

He was a Farang, so human life didn't mean too much for him. It was his personal career he was after. Society refused to let him have this career.

So he went for revenge - against society.

As being an egocentric individualist, he didn't give a damn about the lives of the members of a society that refused him.

He killed them all in revenge.

Only a theory.

He was a Farang, so human life didn't mean too much for him

are you for real go back to your Chang or what ever you on

[hawker9000]

'Thought I saw a headline somewhere just the other day about the possibility of mandatory automated cars (that is, ones where you don't even get the option to drive!) in the not too distant future. 'Maybe coming to an airline near you even sooner.

I think we're a long way away from that. A car has just two axis (axes,) left and right. A plane has multiple - left, right, up, down, bank left, right, and so on. They are used in combination to control the plane. Watch these guys in strong and sometimes buffeting crosswind landings where they have to crab into the wind and use power to keep from getting blown sideways from over the runway. This is just an example of sensory skill.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POu1e71OlMo

I actually hope you're right. I really do. But "progressive" governments, responding to the hysteria of the moment as they tend to do, can come up with some pretty strange stuff. 'Not so sure it's as far off as one might hope...

Currently, some autopilots can land in a crab, and some can even remove the crab on touchdown. These capabilities will only get better and more & more widely installed with time. I can remember when automated carrier landings seemed like pure science-fiction - they said that was a skill that could never be automated, too.

Edited March 27, 2015 by hawker9000

[micmichd]

The FOCUS article also says that he had his depressive episode in 2009, and then was obviously cured. This is the year of 2015, so he shouldn't be considered mentally ill anymore.

With what right was he still labelled "SIC"?

I thought that every pilot had to get a regular health check, so why this label?

[Lupatria]

German police make 'significant discovery' at his flat

>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html

What happened in the Germanwings Flight 9525 cockpit: From cheerful chatter to screams in the final seconds

>>> http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/26/what-happened-in-the-cockpit-of-germanwings-flight-9525-from-cheerful-chatter-to-screams-in-the-final-seconds/

Why is the link to Daily Mail blocked?

Maybe the quote of someone saying: "probably just execute" those who did "not report the truth", did not leave much of an impression to journalists in the UK

[Chicog]

What amazes the crap out of me is that now this flight has been quickly detected to be a pilot suicide flight (well done to the flight investigators for coming up with this fast), comparisons are being made with other large airline pilot suicides of the past such as Egypt Air and Silk Air but NONE seem to include the MH370 in the stats yet. At least this event may change things for the better and regulations changed to ensure that never ever again is just ONE person allowed to be in the cockpit alone again. Sooner this happens the better.

It was only swiftly detected after two sources leaked the news and the media were being castigated for printing the leaks indicates "they" were trying to put a lid on it and block the facts (just review the last newsclips to find who "they" are). Just look how the Malaysian obfuscates the MH370 case and successfully blocked the news of what really happened. No, the flight investigators have nothing to be praised for !

Again what became of the oil rig worker who reported seeing a passenger jet crash into the sea near Vietnam on MH370's flight path ? I heard he was sacked for speaking out of line and obviously upset someone in the chain. In these last three cases it is evident, authorities place the airlines first and above all else. But surely his sighting deserves investigating ! Anyone, anyone.....

Had it crashed they would have found wreckage by now. Not exactly empty seas there.

[Lupatria]

The FOCUS article also says that he had his depressive episode in 2009, and then was obviously cured. This is the year of 2015, so he shouldn't be considered mentally ill anymore.

With what right was he still labelled "SIC"?

I thought that every pilot had to get a regular health check, so why this label?

Would you hire a person with such a record as a babysitter?

[Chicog]

German police make 'significant discovery' at his flat

>>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html

What happened in the Germanwings Flight 9525 cockpit: From cheerful chatter to screams in the final seconds

>>> http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/26/what-happened-in-the-cockpit-of-germanwings-flight-9525-from-cheerful-chatter-to-screams-in-the-final-seconds/

Why is the link to Daily Mail blocked?

Maybe the quote of someone saying: "probably just execute" those who did "not report the truth", did not leave much of an impression to journalists in the UK

No, because they did a salacious story on a "Thai VIP".

[webfact]

GERMANWINGS
Captain tried to smash into cockpit with axe: Bild
Agence France Presse

Berlin - - The captain locked out of the cockpit of the Germanwings plane that crashed in the French Alps used an axe to try and force his way back in, German daily Bild said Friday, citing security sources.

Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz appeared to have deliberately flown the plane into the side of a remote mountain after locking the captain out of the cockpit, French officials have said, killing himself and all 149 others aboard Tuesday.

The cockpit flight recorder showed that the captain repeatedly knocked and tried to get back in as the plane went into its fatal descent, French prosecutors said. However, Bild reported that the captain also tried using an axe to break down the cockpit’s armoured door.

This could not be immediately confirmed, but a spokesman for Germanwings confirmed to AFP that an axe was on board the aircraft.

Such a tool is "part of the safety equipment of an A320," the spokesman told Bild.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/aec/Captain-tried-to-smash-into-cockpit-with-axe-Bild-30256870.html


-- The Nation 2015-03-27

[dezeure]

He must have had a "psychotic" moment. I don't see how a suicide could have been planned as there is no way he could have predicted that the pilot would need a bathroom break and that he would be left in the cockpit alone.

Usually we always go for a toilet break during the flight. Sometimes biy earlier in the flight but usually before we commence our decent. You don't wanna go have a pee when you start the decent procedure of somewhere during approach.

RIP to all the people who were onboard

[Basil B]

Conclusion seems very hasty... is the French Prosecutor trying to clear his desk so he can have a long weekend???

Still more questions than answers.

The data recorder has not been recovered so far, this would show if the auto pilot had been engaged or reconfigured >3,000ft/min decent and heading (about) 025. (maybe the rate of decent had already been set and the co-pilot engaged the auto pilot not realising)???

If it was the co-pilots intention to kill so many people why did he not fly it in to the centre of a nearby city and kill more people???

More importantly why did he do it (if he did.)???

Edited March 27, 2015 by Basil B

[zydeco]

How do they know he didn't have a freak medical event?

I just read something on the German magazine FOCUS

http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/er-steuerte-den-airbus-in-die-felsen-vermerk-in-akte-zeigt-andreas-l-hatte-massive-psychologische-probleme_id_4573954.html

It gives new information about the co-pilot. Here an excerpt translated from the German text:

A note at the Federal Aviation Authority in the files of Lubitz indicates massive psychological problems. The file contains the code "SIC". This abbreviation stands for a "special, exemplary regular medical examination". This means in plain text, Lubitz therefore had to undergo regular monitoring by a physician. The man had to attend one session even before the tragedy last Tuesday in "special, exemplary regular medical" care. The "SIC" note is also found in the pilot's license of Andreas Lubitz.

I'm curious if those in charge at Lufthansa / German Wings and their "Psychologists" will ever be held responsible and brought to justice for their incompetence.

Reminds me on the slogan of Air Asia: "Now everyone can fly" and that's what seems to be the problem here. After all, people in Germany who smoked hashish before driving a car, get their driver license revoked but mentally ill pilots obviously have no problems to keep their airline transport pilot license ...

It sure does appear that Lufthansa left a suicidal depressive maniac alone in the cockpit at the controls of a passenger jet. Wonder who they are going to blame it all on?

[manarak]

How do they know he didn't have a freak medical event?

I just read something on the German magazine FOCUS

http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/er-steuerte-den-airbus-in-die-felsen-vermerk-in-akte-zeigt-andreas-l-hatte-massive-psychologische-probleme_id_4573954.html

It gives new information about the co-pilot. Here an excerpt translated from the German text:

A note at the Federal Aviation Authority in the files of Lubitz indicates massive psychological problems. The file contains the code "SIC". This abbreviation stands for a "special, exemplary regular medical examination". This means in plain text, Lubitz therefore had to undergo regular monitoring by a physician. The man had to attend one session even before the tragedy last Tuesday in "special, exemplary regular medical" care. The "SIC" note is also found in the pilot's license of Andreas Lubitz.

I'm curious if those in charge at Lufthansa / German Wings and their "Psychologists" will ever be held responsible and brought to justice for their incompetence.

Reminds me on the slogan of Air Asia: "Now everyone can fly" and that's what seems to be the problem here. After all, people in Germany who smoked hashish before driving a car, get their driver license revoked but mentally ill pilots obviously have no problems to keep their airline transport pilot license ...

It sure does appear that Lufthansa left a suicidal depressive maniac alone in the cockpit at the controls of a passenger jet. Wonder who they are going to blame it all on?

The real question is how many SIC pilots are out there and how many are causing problems?

[micmichd]

The FOCUS article also says that he had his depressive episode in 2009, and then was obviously cured. This is the year of 2015, so he shouldn't be considered mentally ill anymore.

With what right was he still labelled "SIC"?

I thought that every pilot had to get a regular health check, so why this label?

Would you hire a person with such a record as a babysitter?

I wouldn't care about a babysitter's mental state 6 years ago, I wouldn't even ask.

Not good to stir up past histories of other people.

Would you marry an ex - bar girl ?

Edited March 27, 2015 by micmichd

[ABCer]

How hard is it to monitor independently the parameters of each and every registered commercial flight?

How hard is it to disable the pilots ability to go into a catastrophic mode and override 'damaging commands'?

How hard is it to use satellite facilities for monitoring 'suspect' objects like a plane going into a potentially catastrophic mode?

On an International level of-course.

Note: I am flying in a couple of days (true). I do not want my crew represented by drunk Ukrainians, depressed Germans, suicidal Japanese, over-religious Muslims or disappearing Malaysians (joking).

Edited March 27, 2015 by ABCer

[ABCer]

White House says crash not linked to terrorism

Now I am completely confused.

If the co-pilot's action was deliberate, if property and lives were lost what was it but an act of terrorism?

Is Terrorism only what is linked to 9/11? Or to Muslims? Or to the USA?

Please, help with a definition.

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

White House says crash not linked to terrorism

Now I am completely confused.

If the co-pilot's action was deliberate, if property and lives were lost what was it but an act of terrorism?

Is Terrorism only what is linked to 9/11? Or to Muslims? Or to the USA?

Please, help with a definition.

1. Terrorism ,the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.So if he just topped himself its not terrorism , unless he had a political agenda

[micmichd]

Guess they mean blackmail a government.

[Grouse]

As I stated on the other thread, 600 hours ( only 100 on type) is insufficient experience to be PF a jet air liner. It used to be necessary to " do your time" on small a/c then turbo prop then finally jets. Now demand for more pilots and pressure from bean counters is putting the public at risk IMHO.

I wouldn't let anyone near the right seat without 1500 PIC. Even then subject to crossing skill and fitness hurdles at every stage. Some folks seem to think thos is a cushy job - you try keeping ahead of everything at that speed! Don't forget that under normal conditions the catain and FO are PF on alternate legs. Latest thing is P2F where if you can afford it, you can pay some airlines to sit in the right seat with more or less no experience. Insane indeed

[orosee]

White House says crash not linked to terrorism

Now I am completely confused.

If the co-pilot's action was deliberate, if property and lives were lost what was it but an act of terrorism?

Is Terrorism only what is linked to 9/11? Or to Muslims? Or to the USA?

Please, help with a definition.

This was murder/suicide if it was planned and deliberate. Maybe his mental state ("voices in my head") made it less planned and deliberate, but that doesn't really matter anymore. This wasn't terrorism, but if you see this as an act of terrorism, then the terrorists have already won.

[Maggusoil]

I can sympathize with someone who feels so stressed out that he wants to end his own life, but how anyone can plan to take 150 men, women and especially children with him suggests that the airlines need to tighten up the psychological screening ... and ensure that a single person is never left alone in the cockpit.

Its often very difficult to detect potential suicides. They are frequently people who are "copers". People who have to appear to be coping with life's problems, when they are not at all. Its a very lonely act. Some want to take others with them for the drama and the notice it gets, others for revenge on other people who seem to be happy with life.

The suicide may want revenge on 'society' in general. People in general. Very hard to predict or trace in the psyche. A grave, unpredictable and unfortunate accident. The only prevention remedy is the multiple occupancy of the cockpit procedure.

[carter1882]

I think it is extremely interesting that the airline ihas been so quick to reach this conclusion. Especially as the deliberate murder of so many people by one of their employees must prove to be so costly. In the case of the Silkair flight where US investigators came to the overwhelming conclusion that the pilot flew directly into the river in Sumatra, the findings were never accepted by the airline. Sure, the evidence on the face of it seems conclusive. But, whilst I usually abhor the conspiracy theorists who dominate this site, I also have the uneasy feeling that something is not quite right.