Thailand admits 'urgent' need to improve aviation safety

[rubl]

"The announcement comes as Thailand moves into a busy travel period during the Songkran holidays, with about 100 charters to Japan and about 30,000 tickets affected, according to Somchai Piputwat of the Department of civil Aviation."

I'm sure our TAT is on top of this and already preparing the latest figures on the immense number of tourists coming to Thailand to get wet. Maybe a new slogan is being thought of while we're hammering away here

[huanga]

So it should be good news for the Thai tourism. Instead of spending money overseas, how about try to stimulate the local economy.

Edited March 31, 2015 by huanga

[nahkit]

So the PM will have to invoke his ' immense powers ' under Art 44 to bring the Dept of Civil Aviation into line and get its sub-standard procedures sorted out.

Says so much about LoS doesn't it ?

Possibly he's just using this to try to justify the implementation of Article 44 when in fact they could solve the problem just by applying existing laws.

[Thian]

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

One post in violation of the above has been removed.

Sorry moderator, i didn't know that.

[BestBitterPhuket]

Get a FOREIGN CEO for BOTH Thai Airways and AOT. There are currently no Thais with the experience in raising the standards in this area. After a few years, standards will be up and Thais can take over. That was Singapore's success formula. Always go for the best, regardless of nationality.

[Thian]

Get a FOREIGN CEO for BOTH Thai Airways and AOT. There are currently no Thais with the experience in raising the standards in this area. After a few years, standards will be up and Thais can take over. That was Singapore's success formula. Always go for the best, regardless of nationality.

I agree, this is costing the airlines huge money and also the reputation of Thailand.

I heard of other Thai company's who now hire farang to get projects done in time, if not they will loose customers and big money. It seems to work well.

For air traffic control they hired many farang as well, i remember seeing all the advertisings some years ago.

[SunsetT]

Sounds like an impossible task to live up to higher standard in a short period. Perhaps Thailand just isn't good enough. Then they should hire people from other countriers that have proven they can.

.........Says a lot about the value of Skytrax voting Airasia the World's top budget airline!

[trogers]

Get a FOREIGN CEO for BOTH Thai Airways and AOT. There are currently no Thais with the experience in raising the standards in this area. After a few years, standards will be up and Thais can take over. That was Singapore's success formula. Always go for the best, regardless of nationality.

Cannot have that! What would become of my wife's uncle's son-in-law?

[Orac]

The old chestnut of 'rearranging the deckchairs' has never been more appropriate

[Garry]

When he asked the department’s director general what had happened, he said he was told the department had proposed to restructure its organisation, amend its laws and increase its manpower and budget, but the process did not happen because of ignorance.

that just about sums it up

[Stray]

"At a press conference Monday junta chief and premier Prayut Chan-O-Cha told reporters he would use Section 44 of the interim constitution -- imposed after he seized power from an elected government last May and which gives him absolute powers over legislative, executive and judicial decisions -- to expedite safety improvements."

My memory is failing me but I seem to recall a member stating that Section 44 would NEVER be invoked.

If Section 44 is being called into play for this, what's next?

[rubl]

It is just a matter of time before Europe and North America will ban all flights from Thai airlines to their regions.

They did it with the Indonesian airlines several years back and even Garuda was banned for a while for flying into Europe but what stuns me is that the Asian airports are starting it.

Indeed a bit amazing, wonder what brought that on. What kept the US and the EU from doing the same? Politics, economical aspects?

PS minor correction, it's not started by Asian Airports, but by Asian Government Organisations, the ones being set-up to handle aviation safety (like the JCAB).

[Toknarok]

In today's Daily Mail there is yet another report of a safety incident concerning a Thai airline. Being the Mail I cannot post a link, but briefly an Orient Thai aircraft left from Phuket to a destination in China. When it was in Chinese airspace one of the engines suddenly failed causing the plane to go into a very steep dive. Oxygen masks deployed and there allegedly was panic amongst passengers and crew. Many passengers suffered nose and mouth bleeds. The plane was forced to land at the nearest airport and passengers were ferried onto their destination.

Thailand really needs to address its air safety record AT ONCE.

[rubl]

"At a press conference Monday junta chief and premier Prayut Chan-O-Cha told reporters he would use Section 44 of the interim constitution -- imposed after he seized power from an elected government last May and which gives him absolute powers over legislative, executive and judicial decisions -- to expedite safety improvements."

My memory is failing me but I seem to recall a member stating that Section 44 would NEVER be invoked.

If Section 44 is being called into play for this, what's next?

At times members here make mistakes, even happens to this Dutch uncle.

So, assume PM Prayut doesn't involve article 44, what would be the alternative?

Let's have an urgent NLA session to discuss the issue. Let the NLS demand the Minister of Transport urgently investigate and report to the NLA. Let the MoT set-up an ad-hoc commission to have a look at the ICAO report from 2005 (assuming they can find it). To 'speed up' matters let the Minister for Justice look into the applicable laws and possible need to adjust them and report on the investigation result. Then the NLA in special session again to discuss the reports and (assuming accepted without a need to further investigate) request the ministries involved in defining proposals for changes.

Excuses when I stop here, I'll continue next year

[moojar]

In today's Daily Mail there is yet another report of a safety incident concerning a Thai airline. Being the Mail I cannot post a link, but briefly an Orient Thai aircraft left from Phuket to a destination in China. When it was in Chinese airspace one of the engines suddenly failed causing the plane to go into a very steep dive. Oxygen masks deployed and there allegedly was panic amongst passengers and crew. Many passengers suffered nose and mouth bleeds. The plane was forced to land at the nearest airport and passengers were ferried onto their destination.

Thailand really needs to address its air safety record AT ONCE.

It wasn't a total engine failure, just an 'engine bleed air fault' that caused loss of cabin pressure. Crew did the right thing initiating an emergency descent.

http://avherald.com/h?article=483fc32e

I'm no apologist for Thai safety or maintenance standards, but that sort of incident happens frequently around the world. Take a look thru a few days worth here: http://avherald.com/

[Thaddeus]

Transport Min sets up 2 panels to fix aviation glitches in 6-8 months

Wow, 2 panels.

I guess it can all be forgotten about for another ten years then.

[Baerboxer]

Get the problem sorted. How get inexperienced people to do it, only interested in whats in it for me.

Look at Emirates First class airline, using qualified experienced foriegners as top management.

Time for Thai airways to wake up. Get the pigs out of the trough.

Emirates and Etihad (which I think better) are very clever. They import foreign expertise at the top until their own nationals have learned enough to take over. If your're a high performer, and the way in which you perform is liked (very very important in the ME) then you get to stay longer and get very well rewarded. They have a small population and therefore not always the number of people. So they use a lot of foreign technicians who are also skilled and hard working. This model is used throughout the GCC.

Thailand's insistence that it doesn't need foreigners and that Thais always know best is one of their biggest weaknesses. Until they accept they have serious issues around organizing, planning, performing and quality; couple with personal responsibility and accountability they won't move forward. To easy here to avoid things and still amass a large amount of money if you're one of the "in crowd".

The focus is very much on aviation safety and security, and as with human trafficking and investigating murders, Thailand has been found seriously wanting.

[toonsai]

And when you start to understand that the whole country is like this... ALL about appearances... For everything... With a smile. Scary in fact.

No usual bashing here. Think seriously about it...

Edited March 31, 2015 by toonsai

[The Deerhunter]

Sounds like an impossible task to live up to higher standard in a short period. Perhaps Thailand just isn't good enough. Then they should hire people from other countriers that have proven they can.

Don't be stupid. At the moment they are only putting (other peoples) lives at risk. Your suggestion involves loss of face and loss of income from knowingly accepting obvious forged certificates; much more serious consequences. There would be very strong resistance to this suggestion as Thai people do not need foreigners showing them how to do things that involve traditional Thai cultural decision making. (Bribery, corruption, using forged documents etc etc.)

Edited March 31, 2015 by The Deerhunter

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

I hope Prayuth uses his powers to tackle the root problems and makes sure that the Thai Department of Civil Aviation is staffed by competent people. What we don't want is a whitewash and the blaming of "unfriendly" reports.

I also suggest Prayuth looks into the maintenance of military aircraft - their planes and helicopters seem to fall out of the sky with alarming frequency.

You must be joking or you just havent been here long enough. They will fix what needs to get fixed to save face and then everything will just slip back untill the next crises. The problem in this country is not only the politicians the NUMBER 1 PROBLEM IS THE CIVIL SERVANTS. Remember back in 2013 and 2014 who was the main protesters the civil servants and THAI air, instead of doing their work they protested (but got paid). Transparency International surveys shows time and time again the corruptness of the civil servants, the country can only move forward after the power of civil service has been broken and corruption gets punished.

[lvr181]

"Earlier in the day the minister had said Thailand was warned about its aviation management after an earlier ICAO audit in 2005. "(They) asked us to improve our systems. I understand we have to improve urgently." Thinking about it 10 years later is urgent? Wow!

[EyesWideOpen]

"At a press conference Monday junta chief and premier Prayut Chan-O-Cha told reporters he would use Section 44 of the interim constitution -- imposed after he seized power from an elected government last May and which gives him absolute powers over legislative, executive and judicial decisions -- to expedite safety improvements."

My memory is failing me but I seem to recall a member stating that Section 44 would NEVER be invoked.

If Section 44 is being called into play for this, what's next?

Wide open game with unlimited power.... Maybe seize assets of pesky farangs ?? :-)

Nationalize foreign companies ? I am surprised that Prayut has not threatened to execute

the reporter who broke this story....Maybe he finally hired a public relations aide..

But back to topic, Thailand has done nothing on

this issue for 10 years when it was warned in 2005. So I suspect with the common

concept of past behavior predicting future behavior, not a whole lot will be done on

this either. There are some fundamental culture issues at work here that will not make

it easy to solve with a wave of the hand and a press statement. I suppose as

Thai carriers are in essence banned, foreign carriers will pick up the slack.

I look forward to the bizarre TAT statement somehow spinning this into higher

tourist numbers...... :-)

Edited March 31, 2015 by EyesWideOpen

[mango66]

staff training and certification !

The staff dont know even english,

so how they can do their job at all ??

english you dont learn just over night on partying !!

Than in such position Thai corruption allows only peole from very wealth and high power families !!

( like with sturdesses in TAW ) Gen Prayouth say he will use his power ??

do they have enough childs which want work at all ??

And they did nothing from 2005 - 10 !! years they did nothing after a bad report !!

and now you complain if

Do you fly with Thai ?

do you want your relatives infected by bad airplane services ??

[toybits]

Why not start with Orient Air?

[stoffel45]

My wife and daughter booked Thai to BKK in July - Aug.

No refund possible - cannot transfer ticket.

Seriously thinking of just dumping the ticket - Love Thailand - but know their propensity for Face saving and this is just such a case.

Most energy right now will be spent blaming everyone else - except - the ones responsible.

If they want immediate action - ask their Insurers to appoint a foreign airline to supervise - today.

Bloody hell.

[hawksway]

To hold an Air Operator Certificate, He (the Company) must provide evidence of being a fit and proper person to qualify. This includes possession of sufficient operating capital to guard against disruption to service and having operational and engineering competencies to ensure air worthiness of its aircraft and there are many other details.

The timing is interesting since Thai is at the beginning of serious restructuring to avoid bankruptcy and is assured of survival only by the Thai Government. Where it not for this the Airline could not continue operating as credit lines might easily be closed for airport fees, landings, navigation, fuel and spare parts. There is a conflict of interest because Thai International, AOT (Airports of Thailand) and the DCA (Department of Civil Aviation are all under the political and financial control of the Thai Government. The ICAO probably is concerned at this because the Thai International could be given a softer ride than private carriers regarding the granting of the Air Operators Certificate. Given the level of corruption in Thailand, the worry at least, is that other Carriers might acquire the Certificate under the counter. There is no evidence in the public domain that any Thai Carrier has engaged in impropriety of this type, but if it did emerge, then this would be very serious indeed.

We are probably only days away from announcements that Thailand will formally request foreign assistance and face saving will just be too expensive in this instance. Either Singapore or Australia are likely as those Countries are the most credible in the Region.

[Stradavarius37]

Improved standards coming and TVF farangs complaining -

Isn't there a darn kid on your yard you can yell at?

[Eric Loh]

The PM is again showing his military face and intimidation demeanor. Use Article 44 like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. He just cannnot seem to exercise authority without threatening and intimidation. Scary thoughts if Article 44 is given to this man with his demeanor.

[Johnny S]

Ha ha did the thaiface get lost .... Now they need to hire foreigners to fix their sheit - wonder if they will ever get over this loss of face, who will they blame for their own incompetence ...

[DLock]

Get a FOREIGN CEO for BOTH Thai Airways and AOT. There are currently no Thais with the experience in raising the standards in this area. After a few years, standards will be up and Thais can take over. That was Singapore's success formula. Always go for the best, regardless of nationality.

I agree 100% with this.

One just has to look at Singapore, Dubai or HK to see how hiring qualified foreigners has helped lift the quality and wealth of these countries. Singapore alone has 38% of its population as foreign workers.

But Thailand does not have the vision, foresight or confidence to do that....