Boreholes

[Canada]

Antbody know where I can buy a submersible borehole pump in Mahasarakham or close to. Looking for a high head low volume pump as bore only makes about 200 litres per hour. Need to lift about 40m out the hole then another 20m on the flat.

Have you tried Thai Pipat in Khon Kaen? They always used to have submersible pumps in stock, but I have not shopped there for pumps for a couple of years.

The best submersible pump for really low yield wells is a progressive cavity pump (google Mono pumps). They are positive displacement so can be rotated at any speed and still produce water. The bad news is that the pump may cost more than the well. A plunger type pump, as used with windmills and hand pumps, would also work. You may even be able to convert a hand pump, as used in public village water wells, to use with an electric motor by yourself. These are also positive displacement so can be run at any speed.

The plunger pump is the type you see on low yielding oil wells all over the world, also known as the "nodding donkey", so setting depth is not a problem.

Thats a pretty interesting bit of info.

[slapout]

Bosida sometimes needs a little priming to get started, but he has the experience/knowledge, that many wish they would have listened to, before spending a lot of money with little to no return.

[dsfbrit]

Very interesting thread and some good advice. I could do with some help please.

I live in Pattaya, well 10 KM outside in fact towards Laem Chabang.

I have a Well in my garden about 60 metres deep.

There is an external switch box that drives the submersible pump. The switch box is made by Franklin and has a capacitor and a relay switch which drives the pump. It is a 3 wire switchbox/pump.

The Well water is pumped into a water tank.

The tank ran dry the other day and when I inspected everything, the capacitor was just clicking and the motor seemed not to be starting.

Having read the sorts of problems this can indicate on other websites, I have some ideas on what I should do next, but I could do with some help on some aspects of it.

I should mention that I noticed this problem at 7 pm on Saturday night. We phoned the company that installed the Well, but no reply, old number. This is no surprise as the Well was fitted 9 years ago.

We phoned the builders, who are very good in helping out with problems even 9 years after they built the house. Of course being Saturday they were shut and as tomorrow is a holiday, they open again Tuesday. They may have the the number of the company that installed the Well originally, if so I may get them to come and fix it for me. That could take some time though and at the moment we have no water!!

So as I do most of the maintenance around the house anyway, I have decided to at least try to replace the capacitor and relay in the switch box, even though, after reading the other sites I believe the pump may need replacing.

So my first question is, does anyone know where in Pattaya I can buy this sort of component???

Do I need to go to a Franklin distributor?

Secondly, if I decide to buy a pump and fit it myself, is this feasible. I am pretty good at this sort of work, I do all my own plumbing etc... to be honest cutting the plastic blue pipe and putting on some glue is not too hard, I have run hundreds of feet of piping in the garden with no problems.

However, despite reading on other websites how easy it is to replace the pump, 60 metres of plastic piping looks pretty heavy and I can see me dropping it down the well and making a complete cock-up of it.

So thanks in advance for any help and advice you can offer.

Edited May 5, 2013 by dsfbrit

[Canada]

Hi. I am inexperienced at most things farming related but jumped in with both feet last year. Pulling a pump up and sending it back down (or another one ) are not a big deal. The problem that I think you may have is that the check valve likely will not have been removed, meaning that you may be pulling a heavy load. I use a sawhorse type thing I built out of metal and straddle the hole with it. It gives me something to tie the rope off to when it is time to twist a length of pipe off (or on). We have only one submersible pump that we use for irrigating out of several holes so we have done this a lot over the last few months. I use surface pumps as well but they are a pain really. Anyways.... My BIL and I do it alone fairly easily. We go up or down in about 1/2 hour now. But we are usually only working with about 6 lengths of pipe in the hole.

As far as diagnosing the control box or anything like that, I am of no use.

Good luck

Edited May 6, 2013 by Canada

[dsfbrit]

Canada, thanks for your reply.

I think my bore hole is 60 metres deep, so assuming the pipes are 3 metres each in length then that is 20 pipes.

The outer pipe is 6 inches and the inner pipe is 1 inch.

Is that similar to you?

How did you stop the pipe (and motor) still in the hole dropping back down the bore hole as you removed the pipe that was outside the bore hole - my worst fear!!

Also, there is an electricity cable connected to the pump. I assume it needs extending to (in my case) over 60 metres. Is it easy to make this connection as I assume it will get wet in the bore hole and needs to be waterproofed/insulated.

I am going to look at some pumps today so maybe I will better understand how they function.

Thanks again for your feedback

[Canada]

Canada, thanks for your reply.

I think my bore hole is 60 metres deep, so assuming the pipes are 3 metres each in length then that is 20 pipes.

The outer pipe is 6 inches and the inner pipe is 1 inch.

Is that similar to you?

How did you stop the pipe (and motor) still in the hole dropping back down the bore hole as you removed the pipe that was outside the bore hole - my worst fear!!

Also, there is an electricity cable connected to the pump. I assume it needs extending to (in my case) over 60 metres. Is it easy to make this connection as I assume it will get wet in the bore hole and needs to be waterproofed/insulated.

I am going to look at some pumps today so maybe I will better understand how they function.

Thanks again for your feedback

Hi. Like I said, we use a sawhorse built of angle iron and round steel to straddle the hole. You lift the pump by the rope that is securing it or whatever they used to secure it. When a joint clears to an appropriate height, tie the rope off to the sawhorse. Then break (or make) your connection. Repeat until the pump is clear. the elec cable should be taped to the pvc outlet of the pump so it should just come up by default. If not, just make sure you pull it up too but not actually use it to pull the pump. As far as your electrical connection, I am sure there are products available to help with this such as shrink wrap.....I don't know, I haven't had to research that part as my pump came with it's electrical connection already complete to a cable about 50 metres long. I have not reached that depth yet on the holes I am using.

BTW, you'll need at least one other person to help with this job. Maybe two if you are pulling 60 metres of pipe full of water. MInd you it is only1". Why 1"? Are you running a 3" pump?

Edited May 6, 2013 by Canada

[Boksida]

I hope I can help with a couple of tips if you do have to pull your pump:

• a pipe vise laid on its side on top of the casing can be a handy thing to hold your column pipe when pulling the pump. The main advantage is that it can be removed from around the pump at any time. I would suggest not really tightening it on the pipe but a snug fit that you can rest the pipe couplings on. It is even safer if you can use two of them - one to pull up and place the other below the next coupling, and so on. A metal c-plate can do the same thing if you can get one made.
• If the existing couplings are glued on, I would leave them there and cut the pipe about 6" above them. Just put new couplings back on when you run the pump back in the well. A lot of drillers put self tapping stainless screws through the coupling and pipe for additional safety and to save waiting time on the solvent.
• You may be able to re-use the electric cable. Is it 3 wire? There are a couple of common ways to make the splice - crimp type fittings are easy to get and use. After crimping you can tape over them. Use only Scotch (3M) 23 and 33 tape. The 23 goes on first in a double wrap, you must keep it in tension all the time you are applying it. The 33 goes on over it, also in a double wrap and extends beyond the ends of the 23 tape. This must also be kept tight when applying it. The other way is to use a length of plastic hose for each wire. After making the crimped connection, slide the hose over the connection (make sure you have put it over the cable before commencing) so that the connection is in the middle. Hold it vertical, plug the bottom, mix 2 part waterproof epoxy and pour it in. One other thing to remember is to cut the cables so that the connections are staggered. This avoids having a big lump in one place which can fill up the annular space between your pump column and the casing.

By the way, PVC will probably be in 4 meter lengths. It is best to use Class 13.5 pipe and fittings.

Clear as mud, isn't it? Watch out for your fingers.

[dsfbrit]

Canada and Boksida, thanks very much for the advice.

Boksida, yes my fingers often seem to take a bit of a pounding whatever job I do - especially when cutting down the trees with thorns on

My wife has tracked down the driller who installed the system 9 years ago and he is coming around here tomorrow to see what the problem is.

Once I have got his opinion about just what is broken and needs repairing, then I will decide what to do next.

Your feedback has been a great help, as I am now able to better understand the issues relating to the borehole, especially pulling the pipe, and I will know if his recommendations are sound.

Thanks again.

David

Edited May 7, 2013 by dsfbrit

[T_Dog]

My wife and I drilled our own wells using a 6 HP irrigation pump and serrating the end of PVC pipe to fashion a drill bit. Our 8 meter deep well with a 2 inch bore puts out 18 gallons a minute as long as we can pump as we are right on top of an aquifer. Boksida gave us a source for spiral slotted well screen which works well.

[dsfbrit]

T_Dog, you are a LUCKY DOG for sure. Is all of your life this simple ??? If I do have to replace the pump and I decide to do it myself, then I will post a picture of me writhing in the mud wrestling with 60 metres of plastic pipe that refuses to go down the hole!!!!

Thanks for the feedback

[T_Dog]

T_Dog, you are a LUCKY DOG for sure. Is all of your life this simple ??? If I do have to replace the pump and I decide to do it myself, then I will post a picture of me writhing in the mud wrestling with 60 metres of plastic pipe that refuses to go down the hole!!!!

Thanks for the feedback

I wish it was all that simple! We have a Hitachi pump we call Kujo because we have to watch it like a bad dog.

[loong]

I have the Luckystar 251EA deep well jet pump.

After about 18 months, the tank developed a leak where it had rusted through. Seems to be a common problem with these pumps as all the other LuckyStar pumps in this area have had the same problem.

There have also been mentions of this problem in other threads here in TV.

About 6 months after it was repaired, it started to leak again. Global house no longer carries spare parts for these and I had no luck finding a supplier of a stainless steel tank.

When it started to leak for the 4th time, I didn't want to get the installer back to repair it again as it was getting ridiculous.

I finally managed to locate a supplier and so have now fitted the new stainless steel tank. Had to buy a few extra fittings as well as the drain and outlet were not the same as on the old tank.. Altogether about 2,700 Baht.

Fingers crossed it will be ok now.

It has been leaking so bad that it was cycling every few seconds. I tried to make sure that the power was disconnected when not in use, but getting the family to do that was another matter. Many times I found that it had been on all night.

The pump itself has done well, doesn't appear to have suffered from the extended cycling periods. So a good quality pump I think. Shame that they sit it on top of such a lousy tank! Luckystar must know that this is a problem. I don't know why they don't make them with a stainless steel tank in the first place.

So I strongly recommend that anybody considering a surface well pump only look at those with a stainless steel tank as standard. It may cost a bit more initially, but cheaper in the long run.

[dsfbrit]

Just to let you know that the driller came here yesterday to see what was wrong. He changed the control box and that made no difference, so we went to the borehole. I should explain that the borehole is about 50 metres away from the control box which is attached to the house. He then connected another control box from the power supply near the borehole and the water flowed.

So I concluded that the cable between the house and the borehole had a problem. Curiously, he said the pump was no good - which I did not understand as the water was flowing - although I speak Thai, I was having trouble understanding what he said - it was a bit like talking to a Geordie in the UK (no offence meant to Geordies), but his dialect was really difficult to understand, so I am not 100 percent sure what he was recommending.

Anyway I bought a control box off him as a spare for 3000 baht and I will replace the temporary electric cable to the power point over the coming weeks.

He said the cost for a new control box, pump and installation would be 22k Baht. The pump is 4 inches, 1HP and the hole is 60 metres deep. I may have this work done in the future, but for now it is working so I will leave 'Well' alone.

Thanks for your help with this.

Edited May 9, 2013 by dsfbrit

[Canada]

Good that your water is flowing. Great that the guy is still in business. That speaks volumes that 9 years later he is still around, drilling and servicing wells. As far as his price for the "complete" service; you'd have to check the cost of the pump and control box yourself and then decide if you want to mess with it yourself to save the cost of labour and a little profit. I have found that if you can find a good guy that is honest and reliable, it is often worth the extra money to keep him onboard and focus on doing what I do rather than try to learn what he does. Also, if you do do it yourself and then have problems and call him, he'll likely not be as happy to come and service your well. On the other hand expensive guys are good only when you absolutely need them and it is always good to do whatever you can to avoid being gouged because you are a foreigner. Sometimes you have to bend over and take it like a man and sometimes you don't.

[JaiLai]

Canada, thanks for your reply.

I think my bore hole is 60 metres deep, so assuming the pipes are 3 metres each in length then that is 20 pipes.

The outer pipe is 6 inches and the inner pipe is 1 inch.

Is that similar to you?

How did you stop the pipe (and motor) still in the hole dropping back down the bore hole as you removed the pipe that was outside the bore hole - my worst fear!!

Also, there is an electricity cable connected to the pump. I assume it needs extending to (in my case) over 60 metres. Is it easy to make this connection as I assume it will get wet in the bore hole and needs to be waterproofed/insulated.

I am going to look at some pumps today so maybe I will better understand how they function.

Thanks again for your feedback

Hi. Like I said, we use a sawhorse built of angle iron and round steel to straddle the hole. You lift the pump by the rope that is securing it or whatever they used to secure it. When a joint clears to an appropriate height, tie the rope off to the sawhorse. Then break (or make) your connection. Repeat until the pump is clear. the elec cable should be taped to the pvc outlet of the pump so it should just come up by default. If not, just make sure you pull it up too but not actually use it to pull the pump. As far as your electrical connection, I am sure there are products available to help with this such as shrink wrap.....I don't know, I haven't had to research that part as my pump came with it's electrical connection already complete to a cable about 50 metres long. I have not reached that depth yet on the holes I am using.

BTW, you'll need at least one other person to help with this job. Maybe two if you are pulling 60 metres of pipe full of water. MInd you it is only1". Why 1"? Are you running a 3" pump?

I have a 105M borehole with a 3" Franklin sub pump. It gets water to surface via a 2" flexible hose with NO connections. Is this good / bad / irrelevant. Should the pump be pulled periodically to check pump / hose condition, if so every 6 months / 12 months / 24 months?

Pump puts out 50-60litres a minute if anyone is interested - 1HP.

Any advice appreciated.

[Canada]

I wouldn't pull it unless you have problems. You may have a difficult time doing that if the check valve has not been removed too. If you are having problems, they are easily fixed so no real need to do preventative maintenance, not that there is any that you can do.

My knowledge and experience is limited, so you should check with a tradesman rather than take my advice...however, I would take my own advice and would do what I said....nothing.

[Canada]

BTW, specs for my 3" Chinese Mitsushi are 40 litres per minute and seem to be pretty accurate, so you are doing well at 50-60. My 2 hp Mitsubishi (not Mitsushi) kicks ass.... however much that is.

[Mobaan]

I want to drill /install a new well .

Depth will be around 25 -30 meters .

My idea is to drill as big a hole ( 8-10 inch ) as possible ,insert a perforated 6 inch pipe ,with a cap at the bottom , all the way down (not just the top 5-6 meters like they normally do here.

Inside this liner I then can run my 1 inch or so suction pipe .

Outside the 6 inch liner ,with luck there should be 1-2 inch free space , I want to fill in with small washed gravel -like they use to do the terrazzo floors , as a rough filter . That's the way the professional driller do it in the Southern US .

I Udon Thani I can find (sort of ) home made perforated 6 inch liners ( they just cut slots in the pipe using a circular saw.),which is not exactly the nicest way to do it ,but it may have to do since manufactured screened pipes seem not to be available .

Or is there source for that in Thailand ?

Anything wrong with that plan -I ask the experts .!!

[T_Dog]

I want to drill /install a new well .

Depth will be around 25 -30 meters .

My idea is to drill as big a hole ( 8-10 inch ) as possible ,insert a perforated 6 inch pipe ,with a cap at the bottom , all the way down (not just the top 5-6 meters like they normally do here.

Inside this liner I then can run my 1 inch or so suction pipe .

Outside the 6 inch liner ,with luck there should be 1-2 inch free space , I want to fill in with small washed gravel -like they use to do the terrazzo floors , as a rough filter . That's the way the professional driller do it in the Southern US .

I Udon Thani I can find (sort of ) home made perforated 6 inch liners ( they just cut slots in the pipe using a circular saw.),which is not exactly the nicest way to do it ,but it may have to do since manufactured screened pipes seem not to be available .

Or is there source for that in Thailand ?

Anything wrong with that plan -I ask the experts .!!

I bought 2 inch PVC well screens from Home Mart, and if I remember right, they had them up to 4 inches. If you are 2-3 meters or more into water bearing aggregate, you can draw well over 25 gallons a minute with a meter of the 2 inch .5mm well screen. (We found the limit with the 6 HP pump we used.) You could drill any bore over 2 inches and then drop a capped 2 inch well screen down there with an adapter to 1 inch for the pipe run up the surface and back fill with gravel if you desire. No real reason to drop a big casing down there unless you are using (or might want to in the future with deep depths) a submersible pump.

[slapout]

Have you considered a storage/holding tank for needs for 6 houses, supplied by a smaller system? If this is just for household consumption, it might work out better.

[loong]

Have you considered a storage/holding tank for needs for 6 houses, supplied by a smaller system? If this is just for household consumption, it might work out better.

That makes sense. Even with long showers, I doubt that our pump is running at full tilt for a total of 2 hours per day.

I would think that our small borehole could easily supply 6 households if water is stored for peak useage times.

[BurriAussie]

If any one is off the grid like my farm is then power is the key, we have set up our pump using an electrical bicycle wheel drive motor which draws of the solar panels direct during the day drawing down from 20 meters...check valve at the bottom of the 2" helps.

More water than ever needed for the Moo's and Aqua adventure's as we store it in holding tanks..

If you look close you will see the hand accelerator beside the junction box, if we are stuck with bad weather it can be converted back to the Kubota

Attached some pics.

[Canada]

If any one is off the grid like my farm is then power is the key, we have set up our pump using an electrical bicycle wheel drive motor which draws of the solar panels direct during the day drawing down from 20 meters...check valve at the bottom of the 2" helps.

More water than ever needed for the Moo's and Aqua adventure's as we store it in holding tanks..

If you look close you will see the hand accelerator beside the junction box, if we are stuck with bad weather it can be converted back to the Kubota

Attached some pics.

Hi. I am curious about the solar panels and system that you use for this. Are they dedicated to this or are they part of a larger system for the whole farm?

Thanks.

[BurriAussie]

We have 2 panels dedicated for the pump direct, so if the clouds come over you will see the pump slow down, the advantage is your base load power is not drawn dowwn when required.

[Canada]

We have 2 panels dedicated for the pump direct, so if the clouds come over you will see the pump slow down, the advantage is your base load power is not drawn dowwn when required.

I am curious about the "bicycle wheel drive motor". What is it and where is the motor for it? Thanks.

This may be a conversation over some time; I don't sign in here often anymore. Thanks for your info.

[BurriAussie]

We have 2 panels dedicated for the pump direct, so if the clouds come over you will see the pump slow down, the advantage is your base load power is not drawn dowwn when required.

I am curious about the "bicycle wheel drive motor". What is it and where is the motor for it? Thanks.

This may be a conversation over some time; I don't sign in here often anymore. Thanks for your info.

This is a brush-less electric drive hub, meaning the motor is in the hub of the wheel, these are designed for cars, motorbikes ect..we just used it for turning the pump which works well.

[Canada]

We have 2 panels dedicated for the pump direct, so if the clouds come over you will see the pump slow down, the advantage is your base load power is not drawn dowwn when required.

I am curious about the "bicycle wheel drive motor". What is it and where is the motor for it? Thanks.

This may be a conversation over some time; I don't sign in here often anymore. Thanks for your info.

This is a brush-less electric drive hub, meaning the motor is in the hub of the wheel, these are designed for cars, motorbikes ect..we just used it for turning the pump which works well.

Do you know the specs of the motor? Where did you get it? Thanks.

[RedBullHorn]

We have 2 panels dedicated for the pump direct, so if the clouds come over you will see the pump slow down, the advantage is your base load power is not drawn dowwn when required.

I am curious about the "bicycle wheel drive motor". What is it and where is the motor for it? Thanks.

This may be a conversation over some time; I don't sign in here often anymore. Thanks for your info.

This is a brush-less electric drive hub, meaning the motor is in the hub of the wheel, these are designed for cars, motorbikes ect..we just used it for turning the pump which works well.

Do you know the specs of the motor? Where did you get it? Thanks.

Canada, it is a motor use for electric bike. 350w at 2'800 - 3'100rpm = 1/2hp and 24v DC. The video below showing the battery was weak at 14v so it doesn't achieve the required rpm. In Thailand especially Bangkok, you can order the motor (brushless electric drive hub from any bike shop that import electric bikes and their spare parts - from China.)

[Canada]

Thanks for that RBH.

[farmerjo]

[aWellttachment=259464:DSCN4250.JPG]

Well,missus wanted a bore put down so i let her go.

Even after reading all the advice on here so the story goes.

They drilled down and hit water at 23 meters but keep going to 60 as they advised us to buy a 2 hp submercible.

After failing all the rules what i read about,especially being by their side,i came home from golf today to find-

Liner only 6 meters down,pump 48 meters down suspended by 1 wire rope not 2 and thats after i gave them extra money to buy rope as they said it lasts longer.

So next they hook up the electrics which they said they would do properly only to find out only test not permanent,pump trips.

Get out my multimeter,have 230 volts but drops to 170 on start up,their solution is they plug in generator giving 286 volts back to 230,all good.Our power the problem.

Dont want to sound bad as we got them to dig a bore and find water,which they did of good quality.

Besides the liner and 1 wire rope holding it up i was pretty much happy.

Well the wifes not she has a bore she cannot use and to her credit a little bit the owners of the rig recommended to her what was required in way of pumps,pipes,etc.

Cost 40,000 for bore,2,000 for food,27,000 pump etc which i thought was alright.

Now for the help,can anyone help us overcome the power issue,ie bigger breaker?

Also i asked if they soldered the wires down at the pump to be told they where twitched and thats how they do them all.

What to do,cheers. .