Thai politics: Junta's actions making country far from democratic

[Eric Loh]

Can Thailand be called a democratic country before the coup? What value had that gave to the lives of Thais?

State coffer being robbed, lives under armed threat, police inactions or used politically against oppositions, corruption rampant?

State coffer being robbed, lives under armed threat, police inactions or used politically against oppositions, corruption rampant? What have all these got to do with democracy ???? By the way, you sure all that you described are not happening now? I also treasure the value of freedom of speech and expression before the coup. That's a hell of a lot of values that have been lost with the coup. You don't see?

I see and value the realities on the ground. Not all the hot air coming out of mouths.

Mighty glad that you see the realities on the ground like the disproportionate wealth of the generals, increase 2016 defence budget which will include 2-3 submarines when our economy suffer, detention without trial and absolute power overriding legislative, judiciary and executive jurisdiction. That's not hot air but realities which you dont see or in denial.

[deckape]

Dear The Nation

You were complicit in the rise of this "government". Som Nam Na.

Signed,

Everyone Who Saw This Train Wreck Coming

[Roadman]

The writer seems confused...they do know the difference between a democracy and what Thailand currently has being a military junta? A military Junta is not a democratic government so why the heck are democratic principles being requested?

[trogers]

Can Thailand be called a democratic country before the coup? What value had that gave to the lives of Thais?

State coffer being robbed, lives under armed threat, police inactions or used politically against oppositions, corruption rampant?

State coffer being robbed, lives under armed threat, police inactions or used politically against oppositions, corruption rampant? What have all these got to do with democracy ???? By the way, you sure all that you described are not happening now? I also treasure the value of freedom of speech and expression before the coup. That's a hell of a lot of values that have been lost with the coup. You don't see?

I see and value the realities on the ground. Not all the hot air coming out of mouths.

Mighty glad that you see the realities on the ground like the disproportionate wealth of the generals, increase 2016 defence budget which will include 2-3 submarines when our economy suffer, detention without trial and absolute power overriding legislative, judiciary and executive jurisdiction. That's not hot air but realities which you dont see or in denial.

Seen all this happened back in the 70s, in Singapore. Poor Singaporeans...

[Suffinator]

Can Thailand be called a democratic country before the coup? What value had that gave to the lives of Thais?

State coffer being robbed, lives under armed threat, police inactions or used politically against oppositions, corruption rampant?

Whether you approved of the gov or not is irrelevant ... they were in fact democratically elected (concerns of voting buying aside).

You have to consider why people voted in the Shin family; ultimately it was their only choice in an attempt to unseat the ruling elite. Certainly a sad situation for the Shins had no real intention of helping the people but rather just themselves.

Democracy is a painful process; look at the west, UK, US and EU ... it's all a mess but ultimately the people have / had a choice. Under this regime there is no choice and no freedom to oppose it.

[heybruce]

People should remember that Thailand was on the edge of civil war when the coup took place. Those people who ordered the terrorist attacks against civilians and the people ready to carry them out are all waiting until they think they can do it again without getting caught. Even worse, the state police had been filled with cronies answering to the one big boss and did nothing to stop it happening. In fact, they aided it in some cases. All of this is because one person knows his chance of amnesty is zero if he doesn't have his lackeys in power.

Maybe Prayuth should have waited until a few hundred more Thais had been murdered - maybe even waited for a massacre - and the country was facing economic ruin before launching the coup. Maybe then some of these armchair critics would appreciate the gravity of the situation which was facing the country and why Prayuth thinks these rules are needed.

More civil war BS. The protests in Bangkok continued because the military allowed them to. There were many steps far short of a coup that would have brought peace to Bangkok, starting with the military making it clear that they wanted the protests to end and peaceful elections, and would work with the government to achieve this. Suthep's protests, already struggling, would have ended quickly.

However helping the government maintain peace and hold elections would have resulted in an elected government, which wasn't what the military wanted.

[trogers]

People should remember that Thailand was on the edge of civil war when the coup took place. Those people who ordered the terrorist attacks against civilians and the people ready to carry them out are all waiting until they think they can do it again without getting caught. Even worse, the state police had been filled with cronies answering to the one big boss and did nothing to stop it happening. In fact, they aided it in some cases. All of this is because one person knows his chance of amnesty is zero if he doesn't have his lackeys in power.

Maybe Prayuth should have waited until a few hundred more Thais had been murdered - maybe even waited for a massacre - and the country was facing economic ruin before launching the coup. Maybe then some of these armchair critics would appreciate the gravity of the situation which was facing the country and why Prayuth thinks these rules are needed.

More civil war BS. The protests in Bangkok continued because the military allowed them to. There were many steps far short of a coup that would have brought peace to Bangkok, starting with the military making it clear that they wanted the protests to end and peaceful elections, and would work with the government to achieve this. Suthep's protests, already struggling, would have ended quickly.

However helping the government maintain peace and hold elections would have resulted in an elected government, which wasn't what the military wanted.

The military had more intelligence. Why would they help a govt who is secretly arming their own milita?

But I am sure those who blindly promote 'democracy' think this is a normal process of democracy like in their own countries.

[heybruce]

People should remember that Thailand was on the edge of civil war when the coup took place. Those people who ordered the terrorist attacks against civilians and the people ready to carry them out are all waiting until they think they can do it again without getting caught. Even worse, the state police had been filled with cronies answering to the one big boss and did nothing to stop it happening. In fact, they aided it in some cases. All of this is because one person knows his chance of amnesty is zero if he doesn't have his lackeys in power.

Maybe Prayuth should have waited until a few hundred more Thais had been murdered - maybe even waited for a massacre - and the country was facing economic ruin before launching the coup. Maybe then some of these armchair critics would appreciate the gravity of the situation which was facing the country and why Prayuth thinks these rules are needed.

The ills of the country are well known, and it is a power struggle for which the average Thai is going to suffer.

John, when will the need for constant justifications for the coup come to an end ? What is the justification for giving a man god like powers ? How is he going to stay impartial, not giving into Thai elitist institutions ?

As I see it, no Thais are suffering for it now. OK - some feel like their spoils of victory have been stolen but that's about it.

I have said many times the Junta is a bad choice from worse options. Prayuth will not be able to withstand the pressure to hold elections after the reforms are complete and I am quite sure he will not try to anyway.

My point is that picking faults now is far too late. It is easy to criticise from an armchair after the event but Pheu-Thai showed quite clearly they did not give a damn what anybody thought : they were going to follow through whatever Mr T said no matter what. 2010 was a lesson in how far he is prepared to go and Prayuth knows how far that is (what a shame the press did not make a big point of it - but they are subject to the same pressures as his cronies in Parliament). Thailand has to suffer this brief period where the 'elite' are back in partial control but it is quite certain they will get their election soon and all of this will be consigned to history.

No Thais are suffering, excluding those called in for attitude adjustment for exercising freedom of speech. And university students who are having their education curtailed, by forbidding things such as seminars on democracy, because it might result in free thinking and awkward questions. Also children being taught a censored version of history and required to memorize the twelve "obey" values. I assume the people in the press who want to publish the uncensored truth are also suffering. Of course the economy is suffering, and with it lots of people.

What worries me most is that the future of Thailand is suffering.

[heybruce]

People should remember that Thailand was on the edge of civil war when the coup took place. Those people who ordered the terrorist attacks against civilians and the people ready to carry them out are all waiting until they think they can do it again without getting caught. Even worse, the state police had been filled with cronies answering to the one big boss and did nothing to stop it happening. In fact, they aided it in some cases. All of this is because one person knows his chance of amnesty is zero if he doesn't have his lackeys in power.

Maybe Prayuth should have waited until a few hundred more Thais had been murdered - maybe even waited for a massacre - and the country was facing economic ruin before launching the coup. Maybe then some of these armchair critics would appreciate the gravity of the situation which was facing the country and why Prayuth thinks these rules are needed.

More civil war BS. The protests in Bangkok continued because the military allowed them to. There were many steps far short of a coup that would have brought peace to Bangkok, starting with the military making it clear that they wanted the protests to end and peaceful elections, and would work with the government to achieve this. Suthep's protests, already struggling, would have ended quickly.

However helping the government maintain peace and hold elections would have resulted in an elected government, which wasn't what the military wanted.

The military had more intelligence. Why would they help a govt who is secretly arming their own milita?

But I am sure those who blindly promote 'democracy' think this is a normal process of democracy like in their own countries.

More BS. There were small arms caches, with many of the arms looking like they came from the military, but there is no evidence of government controlled militias.

[trogers]

People should remember that Thailand was on the edge of civil war when the coup took place. Those people who ordered the terrorist attacks against civilians and the people ready to carry them out are all waiting until they think they can do it again without getting caught. Even worse, the state police had been filled with cronies answering to the one big boss and did nothing to stop it happening. In fact, they aided it in some cases. All of this is because one person knows his chance of amnesty is zero if he doesn't have his lackeys in power.

Maybe Prayuth should have waited until a few hundred more Thais had been murdered - maybe even waited for a massacre - and the country was facing economic ruin before launching the coup. Maybe then some of these armchair critics would appreciate the gravity of the situation which was facing the country and why Prayuth thinks these rules are needed.

The ills of the country are well known, and it is a power struggle for which the average Thai is going to suffer.

John, when will the need for constant justifications for the coup come to an end ? What is the justification for giving a man god like powers ? How is he going to stay impartial, not giving into Thai elitist institutions ?

As I see it, no Thais are suffering for it now. OK - some feel like their spoils of victory have been stolen but that's about it.

I have said many times the Junta is a bad choice from worse options. Prayuth will not be able to withstand the pressure to hold elections after the reforms are complete and I am quite sure he will not try to anyway.

My point is that picking faults now is far too late. It is easy to criticise from an armchair after the event but Pheu-Thai showed quite clearly they did not give a damn what anybody thought : they were going to follow through whatever Mr T said no matter what. 2010 was a lesson in how far he is prepared to go and Prayuth knows how far that is (what a shame the press did not make a big point of it - but they are subject to the same pressures as his cronies in Parliament). Thailand has to suffer this brief period where the 'elite' are back in partial control but it is quite certain they will get their election soon and all of this will be consigned to history.

No Thais are suffering, excluding those called in for attitude adjustment for exercising freedom of speech. And university students who are having their education curtailed, by forbidding things such as seminars on democracy, because it might result in free thinking and awkward questions. Also children being taught a censored version of history and required to memorize the twelve "obey" values. I assume the people in the press who want to publish the uncensored truth are also suffering. Of course the economy is suffering, and with it lots of people.

What worries me most is that the future of Thailand is suffering.

Thai students would be better off learning skill and gaining knowledge needed by industries crying about lack of skilled workers.

Their time spend on democracy is like the Muslims studying religion and nothing else.

But then, it is easier to the brain to scream and shout at rallies then to sit in the library with stacks of books.

[Basil B]

Has Thailand ever been a true democracy???

Vote buying has always been rife, hope the Generals plans to eradicate corruption will lead to fair and democratic Thailand in the future.

[phoenixdoglover]

I see a few "tried and true" Junta arguments have been advanced:

1) Thailand was on the brink of civil war, necessitating the coup - this theory has almost no evidence to support it. The trajectory in the several months preceding the coup was toward less confrontation. I was in Bangkok one month before the coup. The protest sites were reduced to Lumpini Park. I was there for one of the last sizable demonstrations, a march by Siam/MBK. No violence; a lot of people peeling off for shopping in the midst of their "outrage". True, there were distinct and sporadic acts of violence, and real casualties of that violence in Bangkok. But nothing even remotely approximtaing a civil war or a violent conflict preceding a civil war. After the coup, there were a few notable arrests of some ragtag groups, including the group of 22 or 23 in Khon Kaen; and their ability to wage a civil war was virtually non-existant. Some people have invoked "secret knowledge" that has not been shared with the public to suggest the situation was much worse than that reported or actually observed. This sort of specious argument is the last refuge for those bereft of evidence.

2) Thailand was not a "true democracy" before the coup, and had many defects such a corruption, and undue influence on politicians. This argument is a variant of the "No true Scotsman" argument, in which it is necessary to invoke an ideal condition in order to argue against an average condition. The conditions in Thailand were well within historical norms for Thai politics, corruption, police inaction, etc. None of that would normally be considered a crisis. But if we invoke the "true democracy" argument, then Thailand was in horrible shape. A logical fallacy at best.

Edited April 3, 2015 by phoenixdoglover

[sawadee1947]

I can't see any of the Junta who cares about democracy but POWER

[smedly]

"If the citizens of the country cannot voice their opinions or criticise their own government, or have a say in the writing of the new constitution, by what yardstick can Thailand be called a democratic country?"

There are a few great democratic yardsticks within Asia. Thailand (Bangkok) is self obsessed, unaware and chauvinistic to acknowledge them. All of this turmoil is due to neglecting development of northern and eastern parts of the country for so many decades. This crisis is 50 years in the making.

I'm not interested in what red terrorist have to say at the behest the criminal living abroad on the run, anything that shuts them up and takes them off the streets is welcomed by me and the majority of Thai people - long may it continue

[aaacorp]

"If the citizens of the country cannot voice their opinions or criticise their own government, or have a say in the writing of the new constitution, by what yardstick can Thailand be called a democratic country?"

There are a few great democratic yardsticks within Asia. Thailand (Bangkok) is self obsessed, unaware and chauvinistic to acknowledge them. All of this turmoil is due to neglecting development of northern and eastern parts of the country for so many decades. This crisis is 50 years in the making.

I'm not interested in what red terrorist have to say at the behest the criminal living abroad on the run, anything that shuts them up and takes them off the streets is welcomed by me and the majority of Thai people - long may it continue

you think the 85% of approval from thai poll are unbiaised?

This situation harms tourism, economy, and a good part of the citizens....

And it seem the last time some election happened, like them or not, it was without the guns and the red were the majority (being a good party or not is another story but at least they decide)

[rubl]

People should remember that Thailand was on the edge of civil war when the coup took place. Those people who ordered the terrorist attacks against civilians and the people ready to carry them out are all waiting until they think they can do it again without getting caught. Even worse, the state police had been filled with cronies answering to the one big boss and did nothing to stop it happening. In fact, they aided it in some cases. All of this is because one person knows his chance of amnesty is zero if he doesn't have his lackeys in power.

Maybe Prayuth should have waited until a few hundred more Thais had been murdered - maybe even waited for a massacre - and the country was facing economic ruin before launching the coup. Maybe then some of these armchair critics would appreciate the gravity of the situation which was facing the country and why Prayuth thinks these rules are needed.

The ills of the country are well known, and it is a power struggle for which the average Thai is going to suffer.

John, when will the need for constant justifications for the coup come to an end ? What is the justification for giving a man god like powers ? How is he going to stay impartial, not giving into Thai elitist institutions ?

As I see it, no Thais are suffering for it now. OK - some feel like their spoils of victory have been stolen but that's about it.

I have said many times the Junta is a bad choice from worse options. Prayuth will not be able to withstand the pressure to hold elections after the reforms are complete and I am quite sure he will not try to anyway.

My point is that picking faults now is far too late. It is easy to criticise from an armchair after the event but Pheu-Thai showed quite clearly they did not give a damn what anybody thought : they were going to follow through whatever Mr T said no matter what. 2010 was a lesson in how far he is prepared to go and Prayuth knows how far that is (what a shame the press did not make a big point of it - but they are subject to the same pressures as his cronies in Parliament). Thailand has to suffer this brief period where the 'elite' are back in partial control but it is quite certain they will get their election soon and all of this will be consigned to history.

No Thais are suffering, excluding those called in for attitude adjustment for exercising freedom of speech. And university students who are having their education curtailed, by forbidding things such as seminars on democracy, because it might result in free thinking and awkward questions. Also children being taught a censored version of history and required to memorize the twelve "obey" values. I assume the people in the press who want to publish the uncensored truth are also suffering. Of course the economy is suffering, and with it lots of people.

What worries me most is that the future of Thailand is suffering.

Assuming you're not into predestination, the future is not suffering as the future doesn't exist yet. One of the reasons it's called future I think.

Of course the economy is suffering, EURO down, Russian tourists ruble-less, Oil price going up again, rubber down. All the junta's fault some have us believe.

Oh, the 12 moral values, well some countries still depend on the church for that. Other countries have a set of laws instead.

Edited April 3, 2015 by rubl

[aaacorp]

John, when will the need for constant justifications for the coup come to an end ? What is the justification for giving a man god like powers ? How is he going to stay impartial, not giving into Thai elitist institutions ?

As I see it, no Thais are suffering for it now. OK - some feel like their spoils of victory have been stolen but that's about it.

I have said many times the Junta is a bad choice from worse options. Prayuth will not be able to withstand the pressure to hold elections after the reforms are complete and I am quite sure he will not try to anyway.

My point is that picking faults now is far too late. It is easy to criticise from an armchair after the event but Pheu-Thai showed quite clearly they did not give a damn what anybody thought : they were going to follow through whatever Mr T said no matter what. 2010 was a lesson in how far he is prepared to go and Prayuth knows how far that is (what a shame the press did not make a big point of it - but they are subject to the same pressures as his cronies in Parliament). Thailand has to suffer this brief period where the 'elite' are back in partial control but it is quite certain they will get their election soon and all of this will be consigned to history.

No Thais are suffering, excluding those called in for attitude adjustment for exercising freedom of speech. And university students who are having their education curtailed, by forbidding things such as seminars on democracy, because it might result in free thinking and awkward questions. Also children being taught a censored version of history and required to memorize the twelve "obey" values. I assume the people in the press who want to publish the uncensored truth are also suffering. Of course the economy is suffering, and with it lots of people.

What worries me most is that the future of Thailand is suffering.

Assuming you're not into predestination, the future is not suffering as the future doesn't exist yet. One of the reasons it's called future I think.

Of course the economy is suffering, EURO down, Russian tourists ruble-less, Oil price going up again, rubber down. All the junta's fault some have us believe.

Oh, the 12 moral values, well some countries still depend on the church for that. Other countries have a set of laws instead.

You really support this without any doubt...

we all know what the religion is really good when mixed to the governments : middle east, Israel, USA (wonderful segregation laws in Indiana for exemple), and still, Thailand slide to a censorship state, where if you re not a part of the establishment you have two choice if you re foreigner : leave or shut up, and one if you re thai : shut up and smile at El generallissimo.

Futur is not written, but experience from the past in the world and in thailand give us a good seri of hints about what will happen

[rubl]

As I see it, no Thais are suffering for it now. OK - some feel like their spoils of victory have been stolen but that's about it.

I have said many times the Junta is a bad choice from worse options. Prayuth will not be able to withstand the pressure to hold elections after the reforms are complete and I am quite sure he will not try to anyway.

My point is that picking faults now is far too late. It is easy to criticise from an armchair after the event but Pheu-Thai showed quite clearly they did not give a damn what anybody thought : they were going to follow through whatever Mr T said no matter what. 2010 was a lesson in how far he is prepared to go and Prayuth knows how far that is (what a shame the press did not make a big point of it - but they are subject to the same pressures as his cronies in Parliament). Thailand has to suffer this brief period where the 'elite' are back in partial control but it is quite certain they will get their election soon and all of this will be consigned to history.

No Thais are suffering, excluding those called in for attitude adjustment for exercising freedom of speech. And university students who are having their education curtailed, by forbidding things such as seminars on democracy, because it might result in free thinking and awkward questions. Also children being taught a censored version of history and required to memorize the twelve "obey" values. I assume the people in the press who want to publish the uncensored truth are also suffering. Of course the economy is suffering, and with it lots of people.

What worries me most is that the future of Thailand is suffering.

Assuming you're not into predestination, the future is not suffering as the future doesn't exist yet. One of the reasons it's called future I think.

Of course the economy is suffering, EURO down, Russian tourists ruble-less, Oil price going up again, rubber down. All the junta's fault some have us believe.

Oh, the 12 moral values, well some countries still depend on the church for that. Other countries have a set of laws instead.

You really support this without any doubt...

we all know what the religion is really good when mixed to the governments : middle east, Israel, USA (wonderful segregation laws in Indiana for exemple), and still, Thailand slide to a censorship state, where if you re not a part of the establishment you have two choice if you re foreigner : leave or shut up, and one if you re thai : shut up and smile at El generallissimo.

Futur is not written, but experience from the past in the world and in thailand give us a good seri of hints about what will happen

Well, if the past gives us some ideas it would be that nothing happens automatically. People behaving as social animals, morally fine specimen, only doing what is right, and all that automatically? No more criminals, no more selfish politicians, no more posters making interesting suggestions (which would make forum rules obsolete).

and then I woke up

[baboon]

So what is your opinion of the OP, rubl?

[heybruce]

So what is your opinion of the OP, rubl?

He can't figure out a way to dress up the latest junta actions, which is why he's bringing up his "criminal fugitive" and "amnesty bill could only be killed with a coup" nonsense again. This nonsense has been discredited many times, he just wants to drag the comments as far off-topic as he can.

[tonbridgebrit]

Nation Newspaper. You should be carefull as to what you write. The article is actually a negative point of view as to what is going on in Thailand.
Nation Newspaper, do you want to be closed down ? You're causing ThaiVisa to put up your articles, you will be responsible for getting ThaiVisa closed down.

[heybruce]

The ills of the country are well known, and it is a power struggle for which the average Thai is going to suffer.

John, when will the need for constant justifications for the coup come to an end ? What is the justification for giving a man god like powers ? How is he going to stay impartial, not giving into Thai elitist institutions ?

As I see it, no Thais are suffering for it now. OK - some feel like their spoils of victory have been stolen but that's about it.

I have said many times the Junta is a bad choice from worse options. Prayuth will not be able to withstand the pressure to hold elections after the reforms are complete and I am quite sure he will not try to anyway.

My point is that picking faults now is far too late. It is easy to criticise from an armchair after the event but Pheu-Thai showed quite clearly they did not give a damn what anybody thought : they were going to follow through whatever Mr T said no matter what. 2010 was a lesson in how far he is prepared to go and Prayuth knows how far that is (what a shame the press did not make a big point of it - but they are subject to the same pressures as his cronies in Parliament). Thailand has to suffer this brief period where the 'elite' are back in partial control but it is quite certain they will get their election soon and all of this will be consigned to history.

No Thais are suffering, excluding those called in for attitude adjustment for exercising freedom of speech. And university students who are having their education curtailed, by forbidding things such as seminars on democracy, because it might result in free thinking and awkward questions. Also children being taught a censored version of history and required to memorize the twelve "obey" values. I assume the people in the press who want to publish the uncensored truth are also suffering. Of course the economy is suffering, and with it lots of people.

What worries me most is that the future of Thailand is suffering.

Assuming you're not into predestination, the future is not suffering as the future doesn't exist yet. One of the reasons it's called future I think.

Of course the economy is suffering, EURO down, Russian tourists ruble-less, Oil price going up again, rubber down. All the junta's fault some have us believe.

Oh, the 12 moral values, well some countries still depend on the church for that. Other countries have a set of laws instead.

Thailand is projected to grow slower than any other SEA economy, and the coup is estimated to reduce GDP growth for at least three years. http://www.economist.com/blogs/banyan/2014/10/thailands-economy

One can take an educated guess on how much good this junta will do for Thailand's future based on the record of past junta's and current actions. It doesn't look good.

Apparently you have no problem with the 12 moral values that emphasize obedience to traditional figureheads. How do you feel about editing Thaksin out of the school history books?

[yellowboat]

"If the citizens of the country cannot voice their opinions or criticise their own government, or have a say in the writing of the new constitution, by what yardstick can Thailand be called a democratic country?"

There are a few great democratic yardsticks within Asia. Thailand (Bangkok) is self obsessed, unaware and chauvinistic to acknowledge them. All of this turmoil is due to neglecting development of northern and eastern parts of the country for so many decades. This crisis is 50 years in the making.

I'm not interested in what red terrorist have to say at the behest the criminal living abroad on the run, anything that shuts them up and takes them off the streets is welcomed by me and the majority of Thai people - long may it continue

In tune with the majority are we ? Do you feel that this "majority" is just not able to form a representative government ? They need a leader with god like powers to save them from a fugitive ? Such timid thinking is going to hold back a country and will not reconcile anything. May this majority see the light of day and take part in a government that serves them and not just the privileged

[AZBill]

Democracies don't use the word "junta."

[MAJIC]

The Junta's actions have nothing to do with making the country undemocratic,it never has been a democracy,and probably never will be!

I'm not even going to bother to look it up,but I suspect,18 coups speaks more for a system than any cries for democracy are ever going to be heeded any time soon! ...........business as usual!

[baboon]

^^

"Democracy is not equal to elections."

Elections are equal to democracy, however.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[rubl]

^^

"Democracy is not equal to elections."

Elections are equal to democracy, however.

In a democracy you have elections, and elections are part of a democracy.

[TomJoad]

"These problems affect the image of the country as many countries, besides the United Nations, have expressed concern that Thailand is undemocratic because of such actions."

He can always ignore the UN and then retire to Texas to take up finger-painting. Like Dub'ya.

[ourmanflint]

I see a few "tried and true" Junta arguments have been advanced:

1) Thailand was on the brink of civil war, necessitating the coup - this theory has almost no evidence to support it. The trajectory in the several months preceding the coup was toward less confrontation. I was in Bangkok one month before the coup. The protest sites were reduced to Lumpini Park. I was there for one of the last sizable demonstrations, a march by Siam/MBK. No violence; a lot of people peeling off for shopping in the midst of their "outrage". True, there were distinct and sporadic acts of violence, and real casualties of that violence in Bangkok. But nothing even remotely approximtaing a civil war or a violent conflict preceding a civil war. After the coup, there were a few notable arrests of some ragtag groups, including the group of 22 or 23 in Khon Kaen; and their ability to wage a civil war was virtually non-existant. Some people have invoked "secret knowledge" that has not been shared with the public to suggest the situation was much worse than that reported or actually observed. This sort of specious argument is the last refuge for those bereft of evidence.

2) Thailand was not a "true democracy" before the coup, and had many defects such a corruption, and undue influence on politicians. This argument is a variant of the "No true Scotsman" argument, in which it is necessary to invoke an ideal condition in order to argue against an average condition. The conditions in Thailand were well within historical norms for Thai politics, corruption, police inaction, etc. None of that would normally be considered a crisis. But if we invoke the "true democracy" argument, then Thailand was in horrible shape. A logical fallacy at best.

A well written and articulate post, but not sure it is relevant to the OP, as the reasons for the coup whilst being debatable are not the real issue and it would seem that a huge majority of Thais are now quite happy that the coup happened.