Historic Iran nuclear deal reached

[sdanielmcev]

Well, technically the US isn't involved. Its president is and he has no authority to speak for anyone but himself. Any deal he might make isn't binding on the next president. It isn't binding on Congress or the American people.

Everyone except a few posters on here knows that and the majority of Congress and the American people don't like this deal.

Debate the merits all you like but don't forget what it really is and who's behind it. It's a belligerent ego trip by Obama.

Indication is the American people are very much split in opinion, the rest of the P5 s population are very much in favour of a peaceful deal.

The mood my dear chap is towards peace and negotiations over bombs and wars ... the public is nearly as sick of war now as it was after ww2.

IF the deal goes through the threat here and in the press is a new president would just overturn any agreement because they can right ? F everyone else they are claiming it will be torn up .... its a clear bullying threat nothing more, it wont happen and i'll tell you why.

Its not just about the US but also the P5 and they will be expecting the US when it signs an agreement to stand by it, regardless of the name on the whitehouse after the fact.

The right is acting like a spoiled child, it is telling everyone they will go ahead and effectively commit what is international treachery, that wont go down well.

IF that were to happen the word and reputation of the US would become totally worthless around the globe, in one action the US trust, its standing, its word, its bond, its credibility and respect as an ally, all would be seriously and permanently damaged.

And the right know it... so they have to resort to panic and open threats. They are making a noise now hoping people will believe the BS and be scared that will happen, its scaremongering.... just shows them for what they are ..........treasonous talking, untrustworthy, unstable, war loving cowards.

The reality is the right wing hard liners on all sides are scared stiff about one thing more than anything else. PEACE

An outbreak of global peaceful negotiations resolving problems rather than war, they only understand war makes them a LOT of money and peace does not... they cant make as much money out of peace you see, it also makes the whole right political wing redundant.... THAT is the real reason behind the whining.

Peace, non violence and negotiation is the mortal enemy of the war loving, pro violence right wing haters... or if you prefer good vs evil

And before anyone says anything about Israel its held hostage by its own megalomaniac.. no he dosnt want peace, what he wants is instability and fear to remain in the region, peace is a major threat to Israels looney right because it encourages stability, competition and growth in the region, with that comes education, wealth and influence and so on, all of it is a threat to Israel in Bibis mind and to him of course Israel hates the idea of that .. same as the looney hardliners in the US and Iran, they dont want peace either...for them they know war pays and peace does not, they know war breeds fear and enables easier population control... peace means less fear and less control..... these looneys are NOT the future, they are parasites on humanity offering nothing but death and misery and they are scared stiff now the world is slowly but surely waking up to it..

Bottom line ? the world is watching this one, if the US president makes a deal the next had better honour it or everyone will see first hand a peaceful nuclear International agreement means absolutely nothing to the USA . Its future presidents credibility and standing would go right down the toilet and into the gutter.

The right Ignores the peoples mood at their peril.

Don't know your nationality, but this has little to do with right and left. This is Congress vs. the Executive branches. As, the Senate voted 100-0 to make the agreement nonbinding. The US has a system in place for negotiating treaties, and the Senate has full authority on that account.

A bit off topic, but you say good vs. evil. Anyone that says murdering unborn children is okay is evil. I've met many hawks, but none want war. However, I seen many leftist that thrive on violence. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, come to mind.

I seen many leftist that thrive on violence. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, come to mind.

Revise the history books, Hitler was a leftist .

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei - (National Socialist German Workers' Party)

FYI...

Yes. Socialism is a leftist philosophy. Try to keep up. Sorry, mods. Pet peeve with me.

[thaibeachlovers]

Well, technically the US isn't involved. Its president is and he has no authority to speak for anyone but himself. Any deal he might make isn't binding on the next president. It isn't binding on Congress or the American people.

Everyone except a few posters on here knows that and the majority of Congress and the American people don't like this deal.

Debate the merits all you like but don't forget what it really is and who's behind it. It's a belligerent ego trip by Obama.

Indication is the American people are very much split in opinion, the rest of the P5 s population are very much in favour of a peaceful deal.

The mood my dear chap is towards peace and negotiations over bombs and wars ... the public is nearly as sick of war now as it was after ww2.

IF the deal goes through the threat here and in the press is a new president would just overturn any agreement because they can right ? F everyone else they are claiming it will be torn up .... its a clear bullying threat nothing more, it wont happen and i'll tell you why.

Its not just about the US but also the P5 and they will be expecting the US when it signs an agreement to stand by it, regardless of the name on the whitehouse after the fact.

The right is acting like a spoiled child, it is telling everyone they will go ahead and effectively commit what is international treachery, that wont go down well.

IF that were to happen the word and reputation of the US would become totally worthless around the globe, in one action the US trust, its standing, its word, its bond, its credibility and respect as an ally, all would be seriously and permanently damaged.

And the right know it... so they have to resort to panic and open threats. They are making a noise now hoping people will believe the BS and be scared that will happen, its scaremongering.... just shows them for what they are ..........treasonous talking, untrustworthy, unstable, war loving cowards.

The reality is the right wing hard liners on all sides are scared stiff about one thing more than anything else. PEACE

An outbreak of global peaceful negotiations resolving problems rather than war, they only understand war makes them a LOT of money and peace does not... they cant make as much money out of peace you see, it also makes the whole right political wing redundant.... THAT is the real reason behind the whining.

Peace, non violence and negotiation is the mortal enemy of the war loving, pro violence right wing haters... or if you prefer good vs evil

And before anyone says anything about Israel its held hostage by its own megalomaniac.. no he dosnt want peace, what he wants is instability and fear to remain in the region, peace is a major threat to Israels looney right because it encourages stability, competition and growth in the region, with that comes education, wealth and influence and so on, all of it is a threat to Israel in Bibis mind and to him of course Israel hates the idea of that .. same as the looney hardliners in the US and Iran, they dont want peace either...for them they know war pays and peace does not, they know war breeds fear and enables easier population control... peace means less fear and less control..... these looneys are NOT the future, they are parasites on humanity offering nothing but death and misery and they are scared stiff now the world is slowly but surely waking up to it..

Bottom line ? the world is watching this one, if the US president makes a deal the next had better honour it or everyone will see first hand a peaceful nuclear International agreement means absolutely nothing to the USA . Its future presidents credibility and standing would go right down the toilet and into the gutter.

The right Ignores the peoples mood at their peril.

Don't know your nationality, but this has little to do with right and left. This is Congress vs. the Executive branches. As, the Senate voted 100-0 to make the agreement nonbinding. The US has a system in place for negotiating treaties, and the Senate has full authority on that account.

A bit off topic, but you say good vs. evil. Anyone that says murdering unborn children is okay is evil. I've met many hawks, but none want war. However, I seen many leftist that thrive on violence. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, come to mind.

I seen many leftist that thrive on violence. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, come to mind.

Revise the history books, Hitler was a leftist .

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei - (National Socialist German Workers' Party)

FYI...

Yes. Socialism is a leftist philosophy. Try to keep up. Sorry, mods. Pet peeve with me.

You have messed up the quote boxes so it's hard to see who said what.

However, as I made the comment about Hitler being "socialist" I guess that is reference to my reply. If Hitler was a socialist, I'm an astronaut.

[sdanielmcev]

Well, technically the US isn't involved. Its president is and he has no authority to speak for anyone but himself. Any deal he might make isn't binding on the next president. It isn't binding on Congress or the American people.

Everyone except a few posters on here knows that and the majority of Congress and the American people don't like this deal.

Debate the merits all you like but don't forget what it really is and who's behind it. It's a belligerent ego trip by Obama.

Indication is the American people are very much split in opinion, the rest of the P5 s population are very much in favour of a peaceful deal.

The mood my dear chap is towards peace and negotiations over bombs and wars ... the public is nearly as sick of war now as it was after ww2.

IF the deal goes through the threat here and in the press is a new president would just overturn any agreement because they can right ? F everyone else they are claiming it will be torn up .... its a clear bullying threat nothing more, it wont happen and i'll tell you why.

Its not just about the US but also the P5 and they will be expecting the US when it signs an agreement to stand by it, regardless of the name on the whitehouse after the fact.

The right is acting like a spoiled child, it is telling everyone they will go ahead and effectively commit what is international treachery, that wont go down well.

IF that were to happen the word and reputation of the US would become totally worthless around the globe, in one action the US trust, its standing, its word, its bond, its credibility and respect as an ally, all would be seriously and permanently damaged.

And the right know it... so they have to resort to panic and open threats. They are making a noise now hoping people will believe the BS and be scared that will happen, its scaremongering.... just shows them for what they are ..........treasonous talking, untrustworthy, unstable, war loving cowards.

The reality is the right wing hard liners on all sides are scared stiff about one thing more than anything else. PEACE

An outbreak of global peaceful negotiations resolving problems rather than war, they only understand war makes them a LOT of money and peace does not... they cant make as much money out of peace you see, it also makes the whole right political wing redundant.... THAT is the real reason behind the whining.

Peace, non violence and negotiation is the mortal enemy of the war loving, pro violence right wing haters... or if you prefer good vs evil

And before anyone says anything about Israel its held hostage by its own megalomaniac.. no he dosnt want peace, what he wants is instability and fear to remain in the region, peace is a major threat to Israels looney right because it encourages stability, competition and growth in the region, with that comes education, wealth and influence and so on, all of it is a threat to Israel in Bibis mind and to him of course Israel hates the idea of that .. same as the looney hardliners in the US and Iran, they dont want peace either...for them they know war pays and peace does not, they know war breeds fear and enables easier population control... peace means less fear and less control..... these looneys are NOT the future, they are parasites on humanity offering nothing but death and misery and they are scared stiff now the world is slowly but surely waking up to it..

Bottom line ? the world is watching this one, if the US president makes a deal the next had better honour it or everyone will see first hand a peaceful nuclear International agreement means absolutely nothing to the USA . Its future presidents credibility and standing would go right down the toilet and into the gutter.

The right Ignores the peoples mood at their peril.

Don't know your nationality, but this has little to do with right and left. This is Congress vs. the Executive branches. As, the Senate voted 100-0 to make the agreement nonbinding. The US has a system in place for negotiating treaties, and the Senate has full authority on that account.
A bit off topic, but you say good vs. evil. Anyone that says murdering unborn children is okay is evil. I've met many hawks, but none want war. However, I seen many leftist that thrive on violence. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, come to mind.

I seen many leftist that thrive on violence. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, come to mind.
Revise the history books, Hitler was a leftist .

Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei - (National Socialist German Workers' Party)

FYI...

Yes. Socialism is a leftist philosophy. Try to keep up. Sorry, mods. Pet peeve with me.

You have messed up the quote boxes so it's hard to see who said what.
However, as I made the comment about Hitler being "socialist" I guess that is reference to my reply. If Hitler was a socialist, I'm an astronaut.

I really don't care if you want to be an astronaut. Look it up. And I have no way of "messing up the quote boxes." You're wrong. Deal with it.

[Grouse]

This is slightly off topic but Hitler's NATIONAL SOCIALISM was named specifically to distance it from MARXIST SOCIALISM

NAZIism was pro Darwinian selection and anti free market. It was pro nationalisation and tried to create a homogeneous society.

However, when discussing Iran, the main issue is to understand the history and not just recent Ayatollah history.

You see there is a huge population who aspire to Western ideas

I can see Iran as a real bulwark against Wahhabism (and Zionism for that matter)

As stated previously, i have little faith in American Tea Party diplomacy. Frankly, since the USA has been a super power, much of their "diplomacy" has not been well thought through.

Do you need me to elaborate?

[Neurath]

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This sounds like the scary Indian Government which has nukes getting Nuclear Fuel from the US.. OMG we're so gonna die, why isn't the GOP jumping up and down there.. is it because Iran has lots of oil that their oil barons who finance their campaigns want at the cost of the American taxpayer?

And speaking of oil, why does a nation awash in it need or want nuclear power for any legitimate purpose in the first place ...

• Iran is OPEC's second largest producer of oil
• Iran is the world's fifth largest producer of oil
• Iran is the world's 2nd largest producer of natural gas (after Russia)
• 3.8 to 4.0 millions barrels of oil produced per day for the last several years

Investing resources in an alternative energy source when technical and financial resources could be put to much more profitable use for investments in developing oil reserves, seems just a bit counter-intuitive ...

... unless, of course, an "alternative energy source" isn't really the objective.

Now I wonder. Could all those references to the destruction of Israel provide us with a clue? Ya' think?

If Obama can just manage to kick the can past Friday, Jan 20, 2017, he'll be able to do precisely what he does best. Blame somebody else.

As far back as 1974 the US has been seeking to sell Nuclear Power Technology to Iran. This under President Ford/Henry Kissenger/Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney.

Here's the link from the NSA Archive on that program:

http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/nukevault/ebb268/doc04.pdf

So the question of why they need it might best be answered by showing how much we can get by selling it to them.

[Publicus]

Historic? You bet.

The Saudis are on board.

Saudi Arabia released a cautious statement Monday endorsing the nuclear “framework” agreement reached last week between Iran and six world powers.

“The council of ministers,” a top governing body within the Saudi system, “expressed hope for attaining a binding and definitive agreement that would lead to the strengthening of security and stability in the region and the world,” read the statement, first published by the Saudi state news agency.

The careful Saudi embrace of the Iran deal stands in contrast to that of Israel, whose officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday, have lashed out at the negotiations in a serious of interviews and statements.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/saudi-arabia-iran-nuclear-deal-116694.html#ixzz3WY1SIE2B

So now that the KSA endorses the deal, then it's extremely likely that the rest of the Arab nations will follow suit.

Therefore, how many of the 193 UN member states are opposed to this highly pragmatic deal?

I count one.

With Saudi Arabia on board joining the P5+1 and Iran in the nuclear weapons preliminary agreement, the rest of the Arab sunni world has begun the process of signing on to it as well.

The American people support the P5+1 negotiations and the preliminary framework agreement by a 2-1 divide in favor.

The one thing more the American people want is assurance the agreement is efficacious, and the effectiveness of the agreement will become clear between its final agreement around June 30th and the US election in November of next year. That is a short enough string to test Iran and its compliance, then to take it from there. One step at a time.

The deal is not a treaty and it never was going to be a treaty. It is a foreign relations Executive Agreement by the president who is Constitutionally the Chief of State, the CEO of the Government of the United States, and its Chief Diplomat.

So the only thing the congress maximus can do is to create a Constitutional issue that would eventually have to be settled by SCOTUS, and the settlement would be in favor of the Executive Branch, of that there is absolutely no doubt.

Congress has the authority to hold hearings, but it hasn't any Constitutional authority to negate or to modify the EA, the warmonger Benjamin Netanyahu and his Republican war party allies in the Congressional leadership notwithstanding.

The negotiations and agreement stand on their own and are linked to nothing else whatsoever, which is the only way to get a nuclear agreement between the P5+1 and Iran, and to have the ME sunni governments on board. To try to link or couple this negotiated agreement with any other single issue is to consciously and deliberately attempt to destroy it.

Obama moves to reassure Gulf leaders over Iran nuclear deal

US President invites leaders of Gulf Cooperation Council to meet with him at Camp David to discuss tentative deal.

Middle East Online

‘Diplomatic option (…) is by far best option’

WASHINGTON - US President Barack Obama spoke on Friday with the leaders of Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates to share details on the framework agreement reached with Iran, the White House said in a statement.

Obama also invited the leaders of the Gulf Cooperation Council to meet with him at Camp David this spring to discuss the tentative deal.

The US President said on Saturday that diplomacy was the best option to deal with Iran's contested nuclear program, two days after the conclusion of a framework agreement with Tehran.

http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=70804

[SheungWan]

This sounds like the scary Indian Government which has nukes getting Nuclear Fuel from the US.. OMG we're so gonna die, why isn't the GOP jumping up and down there.. is it because Iran has lots of oil that their oil barons who finance their campaigns want at the cost of the American taxpayer?

Speaking of Third-Worldist soggy left contortions, you just know somebody is in trouble if they are trying to equate Iran with India in order to kick the possibility of Iran getting nuclear weaponry into the long grass. Sub-text? Its all right with them....and by the way Iran is a 'normal' nation. The fact that Iran summarily imprisons or has executed whatever passes for a left-wing that hasn't escaped out of the country passes these guys by. They are playing for the Iranian and Obama team now and hey-ho its unconditional support we go. If there is any socialism in the cheerleader mentality is it is no more than a fashion item by now.

[Naam]

And speaking of oil, why does a nation awash in it need or want nuclear power for any legitimate purpose in the first place ...

worthwhile to mention that Iran's oil reserves will last for the next 37,587 years

Don't you believe in Global warming? Nuclear doesn't contribute to greenhouse gas emissions, so it's a good thing.

don't you believe in irony or sarcasm (enhanced by a smiley)?

[SheungWan]

No guesses needed as to how Iran would spend any money forthcoming from the easing of sanctions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11515603/Iran-is-intensifying-efforts-to-support-Hamas-in-Gaza.html

Of course this was yet another item completely omitted from the so called agreement.

They are also helping fight ISIS.

Solving issues in Israel, while not easy, can more easily be done via negotiation. We've gotten close before. We can again.

Stoping ISIS, that requires all hands. The US needs to get over 1979. The hostages were released, and though not perfect, the country is more democratic and meritocratic today that ever was under the Shah, or as our allies in the whabist nutbag kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It isn't a strech to say that Iran might even be a more natural friend to Israel than we might think. They still even reserve a seat in parliament for Jews.

The contortions some will get themselves into as a result of their cravenness in face of a state sponsor of terrorism. This is where those on the left with Third-Worldist ideologies end up, namely trying to paint Iran as a normalised 'more democratic' entity. One would think that the Iranian Green Movement never happened, that the left (oh no) hadn't either been imprisoned or executed and that the Supreme Leader was just a friendly uncle. For some the prime yardstick for Iran is their position against Israel. Everything else is subordinated. Wearing a leftish T-shirt is less these days of a confused mind and more of a cheerleader's uniform. And a pom-pom list of excuses.

um, yeah, okay. Wrote all that yourself did you?

For such strident fury against states which sponsor terrorism I hope you walk everywhere. Can't be a hypocrite driving around using saudi sourced petrol can we?

Indeed I did write all of it myself.

Edited April 8, 2015 by SheungWan

[thaibeachlovers]

And speaking of oil, why does a nation awash in it need or want nuclear power for any legitimate purpose in the first place ...

worthwhile to mention that Iran's oil reserves will last for the next 37,587 years

Don't you believe in Global warming? Nuclear doesn't contribute to greenhouse gas emissions, so it's a good thing.

don't you believe in irony or sarcasm (enhanced by a smiley)?

Sorry, I was actually responding to

And speaking of oil, why does a nation awash in it need or want nuclear power for any legitimate purpose in the first place ...

not you.