Lcd's, Plasma, Lcd Projection, Crt's, Projections

[tigerbeer]

Gentlemen, we all know how prices are being slashed on big screens. So many of them out there and totally confused on the differences between them. some cons that i have heard

LCD - dead pixels over time.

Plasma - gas runs out.

Projections - need calibrations from time to time.

CTR - the best out there but limited to 34 inch.

so for the range of 40 - 50 inch, whats the best bang for the buck? brand wise. Bravia seems to be the premium brand but prices are also dropping on them. Someone mentioned the brand Tatung gives the best deal out there for the quality. any opinions?

[geoffphuket]

Well, like it or not, the most likely scenario over the next few years will be for the LCD to replace all other forms of display. Sony landed themselves in financial hot water pouring huge amounts of money into their widescreen HD Vega TV’s, only for Samsung to become number one in the market place with the widescreen LCD.

Sony, having seen the light, developed the current Bravia range in co-operation with Samsung and its cutting edge technology in this field…..Go with the flow and buy LCD would be my advice.

Geoffphuket

[Firefoxx]

LCD-actually, no. It's pretty rare for them to get dead pixels these days. Resolution is usually the highest, while brightness and contrast are not so good. Size can be limited, and price can be very high.

Plasma-Not exactly. The gas doesn't run out, it's the chemicals that determine the colors that fade, resulting in faded colors. You'll have to use it for several years to see the effect. Brightness and contrast are excellent, comparable to CRTs, but resolution is usually lacking (comparable to CRTs). Sizes can get very big, but not small.

Projection TVs-No. Those are old models. Newer models don't need calibration. What they *do* need is a change of bulb every few years (3 years of normal use). They're very cheap and can reach *really* big sizes. Brightness and contrast aren't great. If you go for the top-end LCoS models, the picture quality can rival all other technologies (for a price). Their biggest downfall is their lousy vertical viewing angle (horizontal is fine), which can be very bad or a non-issue, depending on your viewing habits.

CRT-CRTs produce the best colors and brightness, but the worst resolution (for TVs, not monitors). They're also bulky and heavy, and, yes, limited in size. Price is great, enery effciency is bad.

Me, I got a Benq 37" LCD. Somehow, it's *still* the only LCD TV (other than the Acer) that actually has 1920x1080 resolution. Compared to the oh-so-pricey Bravias that have 1388x768 resolution.

[Charma]

I have owned all the types mentioned. For me the best of the bunch was a 50" Sony Grand Wega projection TV. It was pricey when I bought it (about £7,500) but the picture quality is better than both the LCD and the plasma I subsequently bought. I have changed the lamp once in six years of use.

The LCD has poor contrast and the plasma does suffer from resolution issues.

The problem with many projection TV's is the huge variance in quality. The Sony has excellent brightness and wide viewing angles, but many others do not.

LCD and plasma prices are dropping all the time and LCD's are catching up in size. You can only choose by looking at them and seeing which you prefer.

Of course, you could have been talking about projectors, which brings in a whole other debate!

[tigerbeer]

I have owned all the types mentioned. For me the best of the bunch was a 50" Sony Grand Wega projection TV. It was pricey when I bought it (about £7,500) but the picture quality is better than both the LCD and the plasma I subsequently bought. I have changed the lamp once in six years of use.

The LCD has poor contrast and the plasma does suffer from resolution issues.

The problem with many projection TV's is the huge variance in quality. The Sony has excellent brightness and wide viewing angles, but many others do not.

LCD and plasma prices are dropping all the time and LCD's are catching up in size. You can only choose by looking at them and seeing which you prefer.

Of course, you could have been talking about projectors, which brings in a whole other debate!

Projection tv's are however being phased out. Quite cheap these days but dont find many of them out there. Yes the Sony projection TV's do seem to have nice resolutions. Also samsung projections. Seems like Samsung is spearheading the LCD tv industry.

so Projection TV is the way to go or LCD;s??? Id like to get a good 50 inch. its a bit too big though. Maybe a 42 or 43. darn!

[Firefoxx]

50 inch is a bit high for LCDs, they typically go to only around 40 inch, unless you're willing to pay a lot more. A 50 inch projection Wega, OTOH, is quite cheap, around the same price as a 32" LCD.

The technology for all formats is always improving, so a general statement about any problem may not remain true. Like I said, if you can, get a LCoS projection... they're the king of the hill, and not that expensive. Too bad they're way too expensive in Thailand (but not in the US) or not even available (Sony doesn't sell them in Thailand).

[Tywais]

50 inch is a bit high for LCDs, they typically go to only around 40 inch, unless you're willing to pay a lot more. A 50 inch projection Wega, OTOH, is quite cheap, around the same price as a 32" LCD.

I haven't looked at prices for Plasma/LCD for a while since I bought a 42" Panasonic Plasma (which I am very satisfied with). But it appears the price parity between size/price between LCD and Plasma is becoming nearly equal. Here is an example of prices of, including a 65" LCD (very expensive) but up to 47" prices very similar to plasma.

LCD

Plasma

Edited September 3, 2006 by tywais

[solent01]

Putting a slightly different angle to the question, does UBC broadcast any of their channels in HD, (my local agent doesn't speak English wery well at wall, asked him the question and got no where, tried explaining to my good lady, still got no where), and I don't subscribe at the moment, but thinking about it. If they do broadcast some content in HD, what are your options for HDTV's?

Sol

Edit.... Just found UBC's web site "http://www.ubc.co.th" so looking there.

Edited September 3, 2006 by solent01

[Tywais]

Putting a slightly different angle to the question, does UBC broadcast any of their channels in HD, (my local agent doesn't speak English wery well at wall, asked him the question and got no where, tried explaining to my good lady, still got no where), and I don't subscribe at the moment, but thinking about it. If they do broadcast some content in HD, what are your options for HDTV's?

Sol

Currently there is no HD content for HBO and it's not clear when it will be available. My guess it will be a few years yet because it is a large investment for them and the infrastructure upgrade. That and whether the satellite transponders have the BW (for non-cable UBC) is another possible issue.

[tigerbeer]

anyone has an idea on how good this new DLP is??? Digital Light Projection i think it was that Samsung has released. around the same price as plasma's and lcd's.

[Plus]

UBC might start HD when they move over to the new satellite which is already in orbit. They would need to upgrade all their recievers or at least set-top boxes for all their customers, at a price.

I can't imagine how they are going to do that. I suspect once they make a switch all their current boxes will be useless unless they boradcast through two sattelites simultaneosly (and pay twice to content providers, too). Probably they will have to start a completely new company or a service, like when they first introduced ADSL internet.

Then there's a little question of regulations. They can't start any broadcasts on any new frequency without getting a license first. The license granting body does not exist. It's been ten years they have been trying to set it up and there's no end in sight.

Without HDTV higher resolutions are not nearly as useful - good mostly for watching DVD's.

LCD will rule 40-50 inch market, I guess.

[A_Traveller]

anyone has an idea on how good this new DLP is??? Digital Light Projection i think it was that Samsung has released. around the same price as plasma's and lcd's.

DLP is the technology used to provide Digital Cinema, and was originally developed by TI {Texas Instruments}.

Though this is a developing market, for all technologies, a rule of thumb would be that DLP is a more cost effective {don't know about pricing in Thailand though} than Plasma/LCD over @ 50 inches.

The DLP products are about 30% slimmer than a standard CRT {now called a direct view by some marketing types} so they are not wall hanging

One noticeable thing with these was {I saw demo models a while ago} the relative narrowness of the viewing angle, compared to, the admittedly, smaller LCD & Plasmas.

The best option is to go and look at models and types yourself with an open mind, after all we all see colour and tone individually. The underlying technologies are relatively robust and are subject to incremental improvements rather than fundamental developments.

Regards

[Tywais]

anyone has an idea on how good this new DLP is??? Digital Light Projection i think it was that Samsung has released. around the same price as plasma's and lcd's.

One noticeable thing with these was {I saw demo models a while ago} the relative narrowness of the viewing angle, compared to, the admittedly, smaller LCD & Plasmas.

One issue is that they are prone to 'purple fringing', a purple line that appears at the edge of light objects. Not everybody notices it but those that do consider it quite distracting.

[Firefoxx]

DLPs aren't new... in fact most of the current rear projection TVs are DLP or LCD units. That's the reason why they're so much more improved over old style rear projection TVs, and are actually competitive to current technologies. Of course, if you want a huge improvement, go LCoS (liquid crystal on silicon).

UBC can't even make their current analog and digital cable and sat broadcasts look good, so I'm wondering how they would go to HD or why they would even bother. If they're charging too much for lousy reception now (and still losing money), how ridiculous would the price of a HD broadcast be, I wonder? Of course, going all-HD would probably solve their current piracy problem, and probably get them a *lot* of new customers who were fed up with their SD quality.

[daveb1]

WARNING ON DLP TV SETS!

They look great in the showroom until you discover they are pumping high def pictures through them when you see them on demo try getting them to put a normal dvd on and you will find the quality is very hit and miss!

I got a hi def ready 40" plasma in Tesco in Pattya for £700 for the money its great!

[Nordlys]

Me, I got a Benq 37" LCD. Somehow, it's *still* the only LCD TV (other than the Acer) that actually has 1920x1080 resolution. Compared to the oh-so-pricey Bravias that have 1388x768 resolution.

Firefoxx,

How much and where did you get this full-HD resolution LCD? What does future hold for the flat display panel market in Thailand now that HD DVD and Blue ray discs hit the market (well, in Japan and elsewhere). Are we likely to see more brands selling 1920x1080 resolution flat displays in Thailand?

If I remember correctly I think you have a HD camcorder. How does it fare on full-HD resolution LCD, as compared to 1388x768 resolution LCD? I'm also in the market for HD camcorder aiming to get Canon HV10 (1920x1080 resolution).

[Firefoxx]

I paid 85k baht for it, but that was half a year ago. It goes for 69k baht now, and is available at most places. Buy at the separate (non-mall) retailers and you'll usually get a 5% cash discount.

HD booming really depends on broadcast and cable, and so far there's been no hint of anything of that nature happening here. As for the hi-res LCDs, even the newest models introduced from big brands like Sony still have only 1366x768 resolution. Outside Thailand it's a different story, but...

Yes, I have the Sony HC3. Looks very nice in full resolution, but of course the camcorder's "real" resolution is not full 1920x1080 (you'll need a camcorder costing millions to do that). However, I also use the LCDTV connected to my computer (via DVI) at 1920x1080i, and play downloaded 1080p movies on it, with great results. You can see even the smallest details, like individual stars in Star Wars. As for comparison to 1388x768, I think there is a big difference... I can switch to 1280x1024 on my LCDTV, and the difference is evident.

[Nordlys]

I paid 85k baht for it, but that was half a year ago. It goes for 69k baht now, and is available at most places. Buy at the separate (non-mall) retailers and you'll usually get a 5% cash discount.

Thanks for the info. But does it come only in one size (37")? And it's still the only brand and model with full-HD resolution available in Thailand? And where to buy these monitors in Thailand if not at large-scale retailers like Power Buy in the malls?? They don't sell this at small retailers in Pantip or Fortune do they?

Yes, I have the Sony HC3. Looks very nice in full resolution, but of course the camcorder's "real" resolution is not full 1920x1080 (you'll need a camcorder costing millions to do that). However, I also use the LCDTV connected to my computer (via DVI) at 1920x1080i, and play downloaded 1080p movies on it, with great results. You can see even the smallest details, like individual stars in Star Wars. As for comparison to 1388x768, I think there is a big difference... I can switch to 1280x1024 on my LCDTV, and the difference is evident.

So what is the best and most convenient way to view the home movie shot with your HD camcorder on full-HD resolution LCD if you don't edit the video? Connect it directly to the LCDTV? BTW Canon claims its new HD camcorder HV10 that I'm hoping to get has full 1920x1080 resolution capacity. And it's sold for just slightly over US$1,000 (well, in Japan, as far as I can check on kakaku.com) and comes in handycam size that looks to me as small as your HC3. Victor/JVC has also announced a new handycam size HD camcorder to be released next year but in their usual HDD package.

Edited September 7, 2006 by Nordlys

[Firefoxx]

The only other one is the Acer, also 37" (they use the same panel), and also around the same price. AFAIK, the only other HDTVs (in Thailand) that have this resolution are either the uber-expensive Sharp (I think it was 300k baht?) and the rear-projection LCoS from JVC (also uber-expensive).

Yes, I can connect with a component cable. The newer HC3 has a HDMI connection (BTW, I have the HC1, which isn't small, but has a lot of manual controls). These have 1440x1080 resolution, which is pretty much enough. Consumer cameras can't resolve true 1080i resolution anyways.

If you want to edit HDV footage on the PC in real time (like you do in DV), you will either need to use an intermediate codec (a pain) or use Premiere Pro 2 and have a really fast computer. If you want to see the full resolution on a computer, you'll probably need the Dell 24" LCD or something similar, which does 1920x1200. My really really *really* old 17" Samsung CRT also manages that resolution, but at 60hz, which isn't easy on the eyes.

[britmaveric]

LCD HD is the way to go. Course dont think HD is used in LOS? Reports that they will drop 1/3 in price in 2007. Seems to be a glut of these on the market. Will be the hot crissie item this year - I think.

[PMK]

If I may piggy-back your thread a bit, what are the "HD 1080i Ready" TVs that I see now in the Thailand stores about? Does anyone know the real scoop on those?

Thanks,

Peter

Gentlemen, we all know how prices are being slashed on big screens. So many of them out there and totally confused on the differences between them. some cons that i have heard

LCD - dead pixels over time.

Plasma - gas runs out.

Projections - need calibrations from time to time.

CTR - the best out there but limited to 34 inch.

so for the range of 40 - 50 inch, whats the best bang for the buck? brand wise. Bravia seems to be the premium brand but prices are also dropping on them. Someone mentioned the brand Tatung gives the best deal out there for the quality. any opinions?

[Firefoxx]

"HD ready" TVs are TVs that fit certain criteria.

1. They have a minimum of 720p resolution (1280x720)

2. They can accept a HD signal via component and/or HDMI

In other words, practically all the newer LCD TVs and plasmas are HD ready. Older plasmas, which could only do something like 854x480, are not HD ready. The ability to accept and display a 1080i signal does not necessarily mean that it physically has that resolution... the image is scaled down to the native resolution.

[PMK]

Firefoxx,

Thanks for the information - appreciated.

Peter

"HD ready" TVs are TVs that fit certain criteria.

1. They have a minimum of 720p resolution (1280x720)

2. They can accept a HD signal via component and/or HDMI

In other words, practically all the newer LCD TVs and plasmas are HD ready. Older plasmas, which could only do something like 854x480, are not HD ready. The ability to accept and display a 1080i signal does not necessarily mean that it physically has that resolution... the image is scaled down to the native resolution.

[Nordlys]

I found at a shop in Emporium opposite sony showroom that the price of 37" Benz full-HD LCD Firefoxx mentioned is further reduced fo 64,800 Baht. Also found at Power Mall that Toshiba sells 1920x1080 resolution model in the range of 170 - 180K Baht (over 40" size). Sales staff at Power Mall told me as an inside information (when I inquired about the possibility of Bravia full-HD LCD future sales in Thailand) that Sony Thailand will market 1920x1080 LCD models early next year, and is now about to start selling LCD projectors in the same full-HD resolution this month.

Edited September 10, 2006 by Nordlys

[Firefoxx]

With the track record of Sony Thailand, anything with high specs like that will cost dearly. They only *just* introduced the SXRD LCoS rear projection TVs in Thailand this month, after other countries enjoyed it for years (they actually originally said they had no plans to import it). Prices of course, are sky high.

[basjke]

hitachi plasma vs lcd

take a look at this link and you will know what fits best for you.Hitachi produces both lcd and plasma screens so i think they are impartial on this.

Edited September 10, 2006 by basjke

[solo siam]

The "HD ready" Tv's are not necessarily high definition resolution, The HD Ready sticker is often applied to just about all Tv's when they can simply show a picture from a HD source, many times they just downgrade the picture to standard TV definition.

For HD futureproofing you should buy only TV's that are natively 1280x720 or 1920x1080.

[Firefoxx]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready

There are some third-tier manufacturers that stick the sticker on even though it doesn't meet the requirements (I've seen a 640x480 LCD TV with the sticker), but generally this is not the case for the well-known brands. Also, practically all of the currently-produced LCDTVs meet the criteria.

[Plus]

I think they are HDTV ready in a sense they can display it through component/HDMI input, but their tuners are not able to handle HDTV.

That makes it rather easier for UBC - they just have to replace settop boxes and then you can wach HDTV channels on ANY ordinary TV, not only on high resolution HDTV ready sets, as the box would scale the resolution down if necessary.

[Firefoxx]

The reason that HDTVs sold in Thailand don't come with tuners is because 1. There are no HD over-the-air broadcasts and 2. No standard has been set.

In the US, all new TV sets over a certain size (I think 30"?) are required to have HD broadcast tuners (not cable) built-in.

As in the link I posted above, the sticker "HD Ready" just means that the TV has met certain criteria (just like notebooks that are labeled "Centrino" have to meet certain criteria). There are plenty of TVs which can accept a 720p/1080i HD signal through their component input, but they are not "HD-ready" since they don't have the minimum 720p resolution. There are also plenty of older TVs that can't do even that... they have ony composite inputs.