Thailand is the Most Religious Country in the World

[Bluespunk]

So Thai Buddhists are not necessarily religious but all Catholics are? My next door neighbors care more about what they wear to church than what is happening. And they certainly don't act in a Christian (or Catholic) way towards me. Or to anyone in the neighborhood. They commit mortal sins with impunity.

I

Mortal sins?

That's quite a claim, what are they doing?

What is a mortal sin?

A. The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines a mortal sin as follows:

"Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God's law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him." (C.C.C. # 1855)

"Mortal sin, by attacking the vital principle within us - that is, charity - necessitates a new initiative of God's mercy and a conversion of heart which is normally accomplished within the setting of the Sacrament of Confession." (C.C.C. # 1856)

"Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the private of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance of God's forgiveness, it causes exclusion to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God." (C.C.C. # 1861)

"To choose deliberately - that is, both knowing it and willing it - something gravely contrary to the divine law and to the ultimate end of man is to commit a mortal sin. This destroys in us the charity without which eternal beatitude is impossible. Unrepented, it brings eternal death." (C.C.C. # 1874)

[BlackJack]

Not sure what you're on

[Bluespunk]

Clearly not raised as a Catholic then.

Lucky you.

[Thaddeus]

According to OED, Buddhism is a religion. It is a group of people who come together in a common philosophical belief, even if that belief does not include a deity.. Also, like most other religions, it practices certain social rituals, such as weddings, funerals, etc.

Buddhism does have a deity: The Buddha. In every other way, Buddhism is a religion. It's fashionable to call it a philosophy (not a religion) but that's deflection.

As for Atheism. The perception is: if people don't believe in God, then they must then believe in nothing. How ridiculous. Atheists believe in nature, science and truth, with an emphasis on nature. Deists believe in nature to some degree, but then feel compelled to embellish things with myths (virgin giving birth, God Smyting non-believers, deliverance from {canceling out} sins by prayer, gaining merit by letting captured birds out of cages, etc).

Nature can be every bit as awesome as myths. The difference is, nature is real, whereas myths are embellished stories - of the sort you tell to your little kids at bedtime.

Quite.

Isn't this enough, just this.

And now a ten minute truism.....

[issanaus]

According to OED, Buddhism is a religion. It is a group of people who come together in a common philosophical belief, even if that belief does not include a deity.. Also, like most other religions, it practices certain social rituals, such as weddings, funerals, etc.

Buddhism does have a deity: The Buddha. In every other way, Buddhism is a religion. It's fashionable to call it a philosophy (not a religion) but that's deflection.

As for Atheism. The perception is: if people don't believe in God, then they must then believe in nothing. How ridiculous. Atheists believe in nature, science and truth, with an emphasis on nature. Deists believe in nature to some degree, but then feel compelled to embellish things with myths (virgin giving birth, God Smyting non-believers, deliverance from {canceling out} sins by prayer, gaining merit by letting captured birds out of cages, etc).

Nature can be every bit as awesome as myths. The difference is, nature is real, whereas myths are embellished stories - of the sort you tell to your little kids at bedtime.

Quoting the part of the article below not because I consider it to an authorities source bur rather that it puts in plain English what my understanding is without going to the bother of writing.

"Believers of the Abrahamic religions may mistakenly interpret images of the Buddha as proof of idol worship. Buddhists do not assign mystical or divine properties to statues or carvings of the Buddha. In fact, Buddhists do not worship the Buddha at all. Nor is the Buddha deified in the Buddhist tradition. Buddhists do not consider the Buddha to be a god, but rather a human being who sought and achieved enlightenment -- freedom from suffering -- and then bestowed his wisdom upon his followers in the form of teachings. While the Buddha is indeed the founding figurehead of the Buddhist tradition, he is never elevated to the status of a deity. Because Buddhism does not hinge upon a belief in a supreme being or god, it is not considered a religion, but rather a way of life, compatible with other major faith traditions.

........

Buddhists find that gazing upon the image of the Buddha gives them a clear role model in their own paths toward enlightenment. Aspirants gain inspiration as they contemplate the qualities embodied by the Buddha during his lifetime."

http://people.opposingviews.com/buddha-statue-represent-2751.html

The reality is that "Buddhism" encompasses a number of different schools/sects, and within each of these there are various levels of understand and compliance with the teachings. What is often seen in Thailand is 'Buddhism' overlayed with superstition and cultural influences. That does not change what the teachings are but may modify those teaching in the beliefs and practise of individuals.

There are 2 types of myths in 'Buddhism' - the myths attached by some who identify themselves and Buddhists and Non Buddhist who believe that their opinions are facts!

[seanpat]

The article is a joke or misleading. I have spent a lot of time in temples meditating and have dozens of books on Buddhism. But I very rarely engage in conversation with a Thai about Buddhism (even with my students from an elite university) because most don't have a clue. Regularly going to a temple to pray for lottery numbers or good luck on an exam, does not make one religious. It makes them mindless

Can you speak fluent Thai?

If not, maybe why you rarely engage in conversation talk with them.

I speak about Buddhism/other religions and spirituality with Thais more than any other nationality.

Neeranam this isn't a language issue, it is an issue of actually understanding the religion one claims to follow. When you get a PhD tell you that as a child she was colicky and the Thai Buddhist way of getting over such symptoms is to take the kid to 9 temples in one day to pray, then I'd say this highly educated person, misinterpreted what Buddhism is supposed to be about. I can have conversations about Buddhism with Thais, just not with that many and really only with ones who actually meditate. Otherwise, the conversations you have Neeranam, will be full of superstition and falsehoods.

[boomerangutang]

According to OED, Buddhism is a religion. It is a group of people who come together in a common philosophical belief, even if that belief does not include a deity.. Also, like most other religions, it practices certain social rituals, such as weddings, funerals, etc.

Buddhism does have a deity: The Buddha. In every other way, Buddhism is a religion. It's fashionable to call it a philosophy (not a religion) but that's deflection.

As for Atheism. The perception is: if people don't believe in God, then they must then believe in nothing. How ridiculous. Atheists believe in nature, science and truth, with an emphasis on nature. Deists believe in nature to some degree, but then feel compelled to embellish things with myths (virgin giving birth, God Smyting non-believers, deliverance from {canceling out} sins by prayer, gaining merit by letting captured birds out of cages, etc).

Nature can be every bit as awesome as myths. The difference is, nature is real, whereas myths are embellished stories - of the sort you tell to your little kids at bedtime.

Quoting the part of the article below not because I consider it to an authorities source bur rather that it puts in plain English what my understanding is without going to the bother of writing.

"Believers of the Abrahamic religions may mistakenly interpret images of the Buddha as proof of idol worship. Buddhists do not assign mystical or divine properties to statues or carvings of the Buddha. In fact, Buddhists do not worship the Buddha at all. Nor is the Buddha deified in the Buddhist tradition. Buddhists do not consider the Buddha to be a god, but rather a human being who sought and achieved enlightenment -- freedom from suffering -- and then bestowed his wisdom upon his followers in the form of teachings. While the Buddha is indeed the founding figurehead of the Buddhist tradition, he is never elevated to the status of a deity. Because Buddhism does not hinge upon a belief in a supreme being or god, it is not considered a religion, but rather a way of life, compatible with other major faith traditions.

........

Buddhists find that gazing upon the image of the Buddha gives them a clear role model in their own paths toward enlightenment. Aspirants gain inspiration as they contemplate the qualities embodied by the Buddha during his lifetime."

http://people.opposingviews.com/buddha-statue-represent-2751.html

The reality is that "Buddhism" encompasses a number of different schools/sects, and within each of these there are various levels of understand and compliance with the teachings. What is often seen in Thailand is 'Buddhism' overlayed with superstition and cultural influences. That does not change what the teachings are but may modify those teaching in the beliefs and practise of individuals.

There are 2 types of myths in 'Buddhism' - the myths attached by some who identify themselves and Buddhists and Non Buddhist who believe that their opinions are facts!

The above missive is a good-sounding view of Buddhism from a scholar. However, the reality of how 99% of practicing Buddhists - is different. In every way (which defines deism), they relate to The Buddha and his images as a God.

It's like talking to Christians or Islamists about their God. They'll say He's a kind and tolerant God, ....but then look at the reality of day to day manifestations of that God. A lot different: judgemental, vindictive, easily offended. A few weeks ago a farang got officially kicked out of Burma for "Offending Religion" ....because he did something which offended some Buddhist clergy. Who/What got offended? The Buddha? (He's been dead for 2.5 centuries), ....the religion? (do religions have egos which get offended?), or the clergy? (that's the answer).

[arend]

People saying they are religious doesn't mean anything and certainly doesn't prove they are.

So many Thais go through the motions of being ' good ' Buddhists yet are up to all sorts of things that are definitely not on and all the merit making, pandering to monks and wearing amulets etc doesn't count for anything.

Like so much here it's all show and no substance.

It's Walt Disney Buddhism, religion with the level of a kids play to 'earn' 'good luck' but has nothing of the core values of real Buddhism. I would actually call it abuse and insult of Buddhism, but they don't know better. Seem to not even care about karma...

This is why many make the distinction between religion (external ritual and behaviour) and spirituality (inner experience and consciousness)....

Like your pic...be safe, who knows what spirits are really lurking about?....

Edited April 16, 2015 by arend

[issanaus]

According to OED, Buddhism is a religion. It is a group of people who come together in a common philosophical belief, even if that belief does not include a deity.. Also, like most other religions, it practices certain social rituals, such as weddings, funerals, etc.

Buddhism does have a deity: The Buddha. In every other way, Buddhism is a religion. It's fashionable to call it a philosophy (not a religion) but that's deflection.

As for Atheism. The perception is: if people don't believe in God, then they must then believe in nothing. How ridiculous. Atheists believe in nature, science and truth, with an emphasis on nature. Deists believe in nature to some degree, but then feel compelled to embellish things with myths (virgin giving birth, God Smyting non-believers, deliverance from {canceling out} sins by prayer, gaining merit by letting captured birds out of cages, etc).

Nature can be every bit as awesome as myths. The difference is, nature is real, whereas myths are embellished stories - of the sort you tell to your little kids at bedtime.

Quoting the part of the article below not because I consider it to an authorities source bur rather that it puts in plain English what my understanding is without going to the bother of writing.

"Believers of the Abrahamic religions may mistakenly interpret images of the Buddha as proof of idol worship. Buddhists do not assign mystical or divine properties to statues or carvings of the Buddha. In fact, Buddhists do not worship the Buddha at all. Nor is the Buddha deified in the Buddhist tradition. Buddhists do not consider the Buddha to be a god, but rather a human being who sought and achieved enlightenment -- freedom from suffering -- and then bestowed his wisdom upon his followers in the form of teachings. While the Buddha is indeed the founding figurehead of the Buddhist tradition, he is never elevated to the status of a deity. Because Buddhism does not hinge upon a belief in a supreme being or god, it is not considered a religion, but rather a way of life, compatible with other major faith traditions.

........

Buddhists find that gazing upon the image of the Buddha gives them a clear role model in their own paths toward enlightenment. Aspirants gain inspiration as they contemplate the qualities embodied by the Buddha during his lifetime."

http://people.opposingviews.com/buddha-statue-represent-2751.html

The reality is that "Buddhism" encompasses a number of different schools/sects, and within each of these there are various levels of understand and compliance with the teachings. What is often seen in Thailand is 'Buddhism' overlayed with superstition and cultural influences. That does not change what the teachings are but may modify those teaching in the beliefs and practise of individuals.

There are 2 types of myths in 'Buddhism' - the myths attached by some who identify themselves and Buddhists and Non Buddhist who believe that their opinions are facts!

The above missive is a good-sounding view of Buddhism from a scholar. However, the reality of how 99% of practicing Buddhists - is different. In every way (which defines deism), they relate to The Buddha and his images as a God.

It's like talking to Christians or Islamists about their God. They'll say He's a kind and tolerant God, ....but then look at the reality of day to day manifestations of that God. A lot different: judgemental, vindictive, easily offended. A few weeks ago a farang got officially kicked out of Burma for "Offending Religion" ....because he did something which offended some Buddhist clergy. Who/What got offended? The Buddha? (He's been dead for 2.5 centuries), ....the religion? (do religions have egos which get offended?), or the clergy? (that's the answer).

You are very convince in your views or are trying to do nothing more that to bait other posters.

What the Dharma teaches is how to see things for what they are. Just because you see something dose not necessary allow you to see the truth.

To illustrate this in an example from a couple of years ago in Thailand. My wife was I a shop buying some things for the house extension. She changed her mind and decided on a more expensive choice but did not have the money with her. There was a monk in the shop making purchases with cash and he paid the additional cost for her out of the money he had - from memory this was about 30,000 bhat. Needless to say I was NOT HAPPY. What I could "see" was a very bad monk that was clearly breaking the monks code of conduct.

As far as I was concerned the money had to be repaid but there was no way that I was prepared to hadn money in an envelope. The monk who had known my wife's family had a son who we contacted on his return from BKK and I explained the situation to him. When he stoped laughing he explained that he had asked his father to order some things for him as his father knew what he was buying and the son had wanted the materials to be there for him on arrival. He agreed to take the money and explained that it was his money not his fathers. The father did not have any money because after his wife had died and he had no further obligations he had settled his affairs and give all the valuables to the family and gone forth. He said that he should not have put his father in that position and that he knew there was a risk that his father (the monk) was likely to give it away as this had happened in similar situations before - his father was not attached to money, 55. Clearly what I could "see" this was a monk that broke the rules but had addressed some of the fetters that would impede his development. He was on the PATH!

With meditation what I realised was that I was the one with a problem. I was attached to the rules of the monks code and had an aversion to someone else breaking the code. The was more but not necessary to recount. The real truth was that what I was seeing was based on my condition and my lack of progress rather than the monks conduct. This provided me with the third set of what I was "seeing" - if you like an insight into the situation gained through practice of meditation. To put it another way what you see with your senses may not be the truth even if you are seeing 'facts'. Even what you see in 'yourself' may not be the truth without proper reflection based on mediation practice.

When the statement is made that 99% of practicing Buddhist ..... clearly there are likely to be errors in perception. Firstly, who said that they are practicing 'Buddhists'. How do you know what you see/hear is the truth. How do you know what these people believe when so many of us do not really know 'ourselves'.

In the issues relating to Burma (please don't ask me to defend anything about that government - even if I believe that they maybe right in any given situation) you brought up the subject of ego - maybe that is a word that sums up much of what you have to say through assigning what other people believe.

with metta

[boomerangutang]

Strange story above, about the monk paying Bt.30k. Not sure how it relates to the topic. There are errant practitioners within every religion.

[willyumiii]

A huge percentage of Thais claim to be Buddhist, true.

But few follow or even know the teachings of the Buddha.

My favorite example is that you should cause no suffering or kill anything.

Most Thais I know will kill almost any wild creature they see...and not just things they will eat!

They claim to be Buddhist, but actually follow brahminism and animism.

Their beliefs in spirit houses and ghosts have nothing to do with Buddhism.

[willyumiii]

[issanaus]

Strange story above, about the monk paying Bt.30k. Not sure how it relates to the topic. There are errant practitioners within every religion.

Simple illustration - what you see is not necessary what is really happening

You state your opinions about other peoples beliefs as facts

Stupid attitude claiming that you know what 99% of a given population believes.

[Johnny S]

These people are not Buddhists - dont believe they have any idea of what buddhism is ...

Thainess is their religion and its not pretty to look at ...

[longway]

I think you guys are being way too hard on Thais, the vast majority say they are religious as religion and life is inseparable here, it pervades all aspects of their lives to some extent, its part of their cultural identity; however ask them if they think they are good Buddhists or if they know much about Buddhism and you will get a far more realistic appraisal of their religious affinities.

[willyumiii]

These people are not Buddhists - dont believe they have any idea of what buddhism is ...

Thainess is their religion and its not pretty to look at ...

Most Thais are as much real Buddhist as Americans are Christians.

Most Thais know very little, if anything abut the Buddha and do not follow his teachings, but claim to be Buddhist..

Most Americans know little about the real Christ and do not follow his teachings at all, but claim to be Christians.

Hypocrisy is not exclusive to any country or religion.