Thailand is the Most Religious Country in the World

[elgordo38]

So, worshipping the baht is considered a religion?!?!?!?!? That is the only way that Thailand can be considered number one religiously speaking.

Worshipping currency is the new world wide universal religion especially among the rich. The poor are more religious as the poll stated because things are so hopeless here for them. I myself often wonder if there is a god as I know so many nice people here in Thailand including my g/f that I cannot fathom why a deity would reward the arsehol*s on this planet and make the good people struggle. I am 77 now and have not in all my years seen so much thievery by the rich/politicians, corruption and a care nothing attitude towards their fellow man. I almost weep at times.

[Bluespunk]

you are 100% correct in your assumption sir..

That's a cop-out. By every indication, Buddhism is a religion. It has rules, it has icons to worship, it has a plethora of requirements, it has houses of worship, it has reams of rituals, it has myths, monks, nuns, orthodoxy, stratification of roles.

That's like Thaksin saying (true story) "I'm not a rich man" 2 days after he got multi-millions of dollars from Singapore for selling AIS.

Actually, I think the major difference is that Buddhism has little if any dogma. Most religions are based on dogma. You cannot be Christian and not believe in the virgin birth or the resurrection. You cannot be a Jew without believing that God chose a certain group of people to be his favorites. You cannot be a Muslim without believing that Mohamed was a profit of God.

Buddhism started out quite different. The Buddha never asked anybody to believe in anything. He constantly challenged people to try it themselves. He didn't even claim he had the only way. He only claimed that that was the way that had worked for him.

After his death it became a religion. But, there is always a distinction between Buddhism the philosophy - the actual teachings of The Buddha - and the religion which is all of the rituals, etc that followed. You can pull out the teachings of The Buddha and practice them as a Buddhist, a Jew, a Christian, or even an atheist.

The way most Thais practice it though is completely as a religion and not even a very representative version of Buddhism. One of the reasons Buddhism, as a religion, spread so quickly was because it didn't require you to give up your existing traditions. It wasn't like other religions where you had to abandon everything and follow a new religion. Thais could keep their ghosts, tree spirits, superstitions, etc and add Buddhism into the mix.

Maybe someone remembers the book Phra Farang better than I do but I recall a piece in there where Phra Farang becomes somewhat disillusioned with Thai Buddhism when he contemplates all of the rites and ceremonies they have to perform that have no basis in Buddhism. Blessing motorbikes, blowing on children's heads, etc. He was distressed over how Thai Buddhism had become a public service to be performed for the laypeople. Without their financial and political support, they wouldn't exist so the entire practice of Buddhism had devolved into a magic show to appease the people.

Don't confuse that with what The Buddha was teaching. It's not the same.

Do Buddhists believe in god?

8]

8]No, we do not. There are several reasons for this. The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas, and especially the god idea, have their origin in fear.

8]

8] The Buddha says:

8]"Gripped by fear men go to the sacred mountains,

sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines".

8]

8]Primitive man found himself in a dangerous and hostile world. The fear of wild animals; of not being able to find enough food; of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes was constantly with him. Finding no security, he created the idea of gods in order to give him comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation - when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious in times of crises, and you will hear them say that their belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and that their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddhas teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires, and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear not with irrational belief, but with rational understanding.

8]

8]The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have gods words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand gods nature, that their god exists, and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine, and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god, but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising, that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods, that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgment until such evidence is forthcoming.

8]

8]The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin of the universe. However, Buddhists believe this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being, without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in gods power is necessary, because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties, through their own inner resources and through their own efforts without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. Again, however, this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation, and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion, and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart, and He encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.

8]

8]Enough?

Anyone who witnessed him in his prime at Anfield knows there is indeed a god and his name is Robbie Fowler.

[elgordo38]

500 years ago, all of Europe was riddled with priestly corruption. Monks used to sell "holy" relics....the bone of the little finger of Saint SoandSo....and so on.

Many of the greatest writers used to mock the priestly crap....see, for ex, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales.

So, hang on a while and the monks will all be gone....

I think over the centuries that Christians have killed well over 200 million people and counting as we are still killing them in what was once Persia. Becoming "civilized" has taught us nothing but to keep on exterminating our fellow man and to keep sticking our nose in their business. They started off as Holy Wars and then changed to Oil Wars. I guess you could say all this culling will push off the day of our extinction.

[micmichd]

Thais ARE religious, see them worship their temples and monuments.

Easy to state your definition of religion as the only valid one, and then bash out everyone that doesn't fit your scheme.

Guess the difference between religion and philosophy is quite artificial. Both provide a set of paradigms or 'ultimate values' with no meta-platform behind to question them.

If I'd tell you that life is an ultimate value, would you disagree?

[Guest]

SInce when money became a religion?

Since the Americans elected to write "In God we Trust" on the Money !

[Gandtee]

Religion. 'The opiate of the masses'

[JOC]

Thailand is the Most Religious Country in the World

Yeah sure:

[BlackJack]

my friend told me that there is a bar in Pattaya and before the punters arrive one of the girls walks around the bar 3 times, to loud music, clutching burning incense, chanting to the holy house above the bar.

Naked.

So i would count these girls in as part of the 94%

[micmichd]

What's wrong about using donations from rich people?

Better than those pedophile Catholic priests...

Edited April 14, 2015 by micmichd

[micmichd]

my friend told me that there is a bar in Pattaya and before the punters arrive one of the girls walks around the bar 3 times, to loud music, clutching burning incense, chanting to the holy house above the bar.

Naked.

So i would count these girls in as part of the 94%

I'm sure you would prefer nuns, because you hate naked women so much and would never dare to look at them. You're not a sinner, right?

And you certainly don't mind those Christian priests that walk around and bless guns before the killings begin.

Edited April 14, 2015 by micmichd

[Jumper]

I am completely done with Thai "buddhism", it is not buddhism at all. It is animist superstition mixed with commerce... Went to a wat a couple of days ago: had to give money to have the monk tell your fortune (real monks can not handle or own money). The kutis had sattelite dishes (real monks don't watch tv), they were driving a motorbike(real monks can not drive vehicles), they sold drums with buffalo skins on it (monks can not sell stuff for profit and most certainly can not kill animals). I told my wife It was bullshit, she kind of agreed but still better be safe than sorry so just hand over the bahts and listen to the old mans "advice". Not religion, just paying for magic...

Interesting post, interesting perspective and I'm sure very commonplace throughout LoS.

I don't mean Mr.S being done with Buddhism but rather the practices he described.

If you have been a follower of Buddhism, and have benefitted from it in the past, I think giving up on "Thai Buddhism" is a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

I've always found it interesting that even though the publication of his writings have been sponsored by the Thai government, and he is considered by some to be a national treasure, very few Thai's are actually familiar with the teachings of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu (one of the founders of Thai Reformist Buddhism). In fact, the Thai person who introduced me to him was not really aware of what is contained in his writings.

He is quite critical of several practices common in Buddhism in general in Thailand. A good read to start with is his most popular publication Handbook for Mankind (available in English at Kinokuniya, and also available for free on the web).

According to Buddhadasa, to be considered Buddhist thought, an idea must satisfy 3 criteria:

It must deal with suffering.

It must give a way out of suffering.

It must make logical sense. It must be something you can reason through yourself.

Again, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

[laobali]

Best thread ever until the last few posts. Well done all!

[micmichd]

SInce when money became a religion?

Since the Americans elected to write "In God we Trust" on the Money !

Guess long ago before 1862 or 1956, somewhere in Europe.

[Kaalle]

So you have to be a good and virtuous person to call yourself religious? Thats the funniest thing I've heard in my life.

[Lupatria]

The drunk convenience editors in France should have done some homework research to discover a couple of recent headlines giving a genuine insight related to Thai religion:

20/02/2015 - Magic Monk claims to simmer in stew pot to collect money for this scam

21/01/2015 - Abbot arrest for illegal lumber trade

18/01/2015 - Abbot admits having sex with man

16/01/ 2015 - Abbott defrocked due to financial irregularities

06/01/2015 - Abbot accused of sexual harassment

02/01/2015 - Angry monk slaps English teacher on the train

23/12/2014 - Monk collects alms while sitting in a sidecar of a remote controlled motorbike which cost 30.000 Baht

23/12/2014 - Monk arrested for the murder of minors

23/12/2014 - Firearms porn and almost one million baht Confiscated in Temple

23/12/2014 - Monk convicted of drug abuse

22/12/2014 - Monks received offerings from members of the public and then sell them on to food vendors at the Market

01/12/2014 - Drunk monk apprehended at roadside

24/11/2014 - Koh Chang monk hugging foreign babes to be investigated

18/11/2014 - Monk caught with bag full of drugs

[Mot Dang]

With all the fake monks being exposed lately I think intelligent Thais will lose interest in this strangely perverted kind of Buddhism found in today's Thailand.

Particularly up-country, practicing Buddhists are being very cautious on visiting monks. The temple in my village have turfed out a number of monks in the past few years. Mostly for alcoholism or getting too close to the young pooying. They are given an opportunity to correct their ways, but generally don't. They are only out for a free ride.

I really don't believe that some kind of perversion has crept into the belief as a whole in Thailand, I think it is only individuals who have become "perverted". And wealth and greed is responsible. A middle-class sect started about 10 years ago, with some households actually having alters. A veneration that is believed to attract wealth, but I will not go into detail.

[sean in udon]

This reminds me. I need to get down to the Temple and have the Monk pick my lottery numbers.

Might me more time efficient to go to the lottery seller and ask one of the monks buying tickets to pick the numbers for you.

[SPB65]

Replace the word "religious" with "superstitious" and you get closer to the truth. Thais also don't like to think too much so will just accept whatever they are told or taught. In other words Thailand is the perfect breeding ground for ridiculous beliefs.

[Shaunduhpostman]

If you ask people what religion they are, in many societies, there is quite a lot of social conditioning and/or pressure to say you are a member of some religion. I don't think Thailand is any different. It is really at the level of a reflexive action to say you are a Buddhist in Thailand. Ultimately that's all the poll shows, is how much pressure there is in your society or country to say you are religious.

Religion or spirituality or what have you in a true sense is strictly personal and really just people's private business, so as soon as you start asking questions, you are dragging it in to the public sphere where it ultimately becomes a kind of soccer hooliganism on nuclear steroids, social engineering etc. So in terms of true religious or spiritual affiliation you've poisoned the well, so to speak simply by the fact of having asked people to declare what banner they are carrying.

[Basil B]

When Thais pray to the golden Buddha, is it Buddha or the gold they are praying too???

[fritzzz25]

Standing inside of a church (temple) makes one no more a Christian (Buddhist), than standing inside of a garage makes one you a car.

Thailand should build drive through temples for all of the "cars".....

[boomerangutang]

Since when money became a religion?

good question.

Without their financial and political support, they wouldn't exist so the entire practice of Buddhism had devolved into a magic show to appease the people. Don't confuse that with what The Buddha was teaching. It's not the same.

Do Buddhists believe in god? No, we do not.

A worshiped icon is a God, despite denials. The Buddha statue has become the God of the Buddhists. It has very little to do with the original teachings of Gautama (the classic 'Buddha'). He wouldn't have wanted a bazillion images of himself being worshiped. I'm familiar with the bio of a Buddhist saint from Tibet. Milarepa lived 900 years ago. He's one of those rare people who went off on his own for years - to meditate solo in walled-in Himalayan caves with enough food to feed a cockroach. After he attained enlightenment, his sister saw him (first time in 20 years) and pleaded with him to go join a Tibetan monastery and get some food and clothes. He kindly declined. He didn't want to be a part of the orthodoxy of temples, shrines, rituals, worship, etc. He's an example of a Buddhist who is nearly 180 degrees removed from Thai-style Buddhism, which is endlessly encumbered/embellished with ritual, horoscope, icons, stratification of roles, money, political interference, etc.

....and noise. I live a Km from a new wat which plays a song LOUD every day. I didn't say 'songs' (plural). A Russian cosmonaut once said: "if you want to get any two people to hate each other, put them together in a small capsule for several weeks." I could re-write that to say, "if you want to get someone to hate ANY song, play that song loud every day, about 17 times, for three years or more."

[BuckBee]

Probably true

I never see another country that worship the $ like thailand ...

[gandalf12]

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Thais ARE religious, see them worship their temples and monuments.
Easy to state your definition of religion as the only valid one, and then bash out everyone that doesn't fit your scheme.
Guess the difference between religion and philosophy is quite artificial. Both provide a set of paradigms or 'ultimate values' with no meta-platform behind to question them.
If I'd tell you that life is an ultimate value, would you disagree?

Religion can not be quantified by going through a set of rituals as good as they may be. Religion is a very personal thing. It is not what you show the world that matters it is what you believe to be right and true

[Ducking and]

Bluespunk, on 14 Apr 2015 - 00:37, said:

"When it comes to education and religion, people with no education are the most religious"

And his post provoked support as follows, which raised my eyebrows.

"Now there's a thing.

It's why the powers that be want to keep the populace uneducated."

The majority of people with no education are religious, we are told by the Report. There the word "religious" is used instead of "superstitious". Some posters have already spotted the difference.

But both Bluespunk and his follower who made the comments above have chosen to read only what they want to read. They ignore completely that the Report also says " Interestingly, the data shows that religion is on the rise. ... Those that have attended secondary school or university were also highly religious, with 60% of those polled being religious."

The fact is, intelligent people are more likely than not to deduce things that some of the posters on this site cannot. It seems to be that the people in between the uneducated and the intelligent can only see the contemptible superstition and not the more profound issues of human life.

[SamuiAxe]

When I was reading the article I couldn't help it: I started to smile.. Now, minutes later I'm still smiling.Sorry

[Neeranam]

I don't know what is funnier - the claim that Thailand is the most religious country or saying that they were voted most religious.

They weren't voted most religious, they voted themselves (individually) most religious. If you ask people in a community, "are you honest?" "are you a thief?" ...what will they say? Yet, that same community might have a lot of things stolen and a lot of lies told.

What would be more interesting, would be a survey about the # and % of lady boys. In both categories, Thailand would be tops.

What have ladyboys got to do with anything? I feel that you are suggesting that transgender people are somehow morally wrong or can't be good practicing Buddhists - are you?

[Moonlover]

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No it isn't.. the Philippines is the most religious country in the world - if devout Christians count alt=whistling.gif>

Saudi Arabia....I think they kill you if you are not religious

It makes one wonder how many muslim nations were in this poll...

I was thinking the same thing.

No, of course the poll would not include Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. (Or quite a few others I could name) What is the point of holding such a poll in a country where the citizens are told what to believe?

The lunar eclipse, a few days ago, reminded me of an incident in Saudi Arabia a few years ago. There was a lunar eclipse there and I noticed that amid loud calls from the mosques, everyone rushed to prayers.

The following day I asked a Saudi work colleague of mine why they went to pray. His answer just about summed up religion as far as I was concerned. 'Because we are told to'.

Interestingly, according to many writers and commentators on religion, including the renown atheist, Richard Dawkins, Buddhism is not regarded as a religion, rather as an ethical system or a philosophy of life. Dawkins does not comment at all on Buddhism in his best known work, 'The God Delusion'.

[Bluespunk]

Bluespunk, on 14 Apr 2015 - 00:37, said:

"When it comes to education and religion, people with no education are the most religious"

And his post provoked support as follows, which raised my eyebrows.

"Now there's a thing.

It's why the powers that be want to keep the populace uneducated."

The majority of people with no education are religious, we are told by the Report. There the word "religious" is used instead of "superstitious". Some posters have already spotted the difference.

But both Bluespunk and his follower who made the comments above have chosen to read only what they want to read. They ignore completely that the Report also says " Interestingly, the data shows that religion is on the rise. ... Those that have attended secondary school or university were also highly religious, with 60% of those polled being religious."

The fact is, intelligent people are more likely than not to deduce things that some of the posters on this site cannot. It seems to be that the people in between the uneducated and the intelligent can only see the contemptible superstition and not the more profound issues of human life.

Not sure what's rattled your cage, but I was simply pointing out that education can help overcome superstitious and faith.

I went to a Catholic Grammar and God was part of the curriculum, we were allowed to discuss the possibility of their being no god {once we got to sixth form that is, prior to that we were told what to believe}.

Critical thought was encouraged, while the RE teachers pushed god, they did allow us to express our doubts. The school wanted critical thinking from us and accepted that meant we could end up denying gods existence.

40% of educated people do not believe in god, twice as many as those who were unable to access education. That is a telling difference.

I know that I do not believe in god, as far as I'm concerned it's just superstition and myth wrapped in mystical finery.

But that's me. If others want to believe, I'm fine with that, they have their faith and know it to be true for them. I would never deny them that right.

Neither do I hold them in contempt.

They believe, I don't. We all find our own way.

As for religion being on the rise, a poll finds what the pollster wants it to find. I wonder who commissioned the poll?

Edited April 14, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Nobb]

Thai people can talk the talk. But they can not walk the walk. Liieing, stealing, cheating not in this religion! Plus the taking of lives do not concern them. Not land of a thousand smiles!