Italian police: Muslims threw Christians overboard during Med voyage

[Scott]

An off-topic, inflammatory post removed along with replies.

Please stop with the personal remarks directed at other posters and stay on topic.

[arjunadawn]

A vocal minority want sharia law. All muslims i have discussed that with here actually fear sharia law being implemented.

No. That is wrong. Large majorities in the Muslim world want the Islamic legal and moral code of sharia as the official law in their countries.

Your assumption is based on?

It would be natural for a devout muslim to belief they have the authority to throw christians to the sea, certainly if it supported their survival. However, I am not entirely certain it is typical. The koran and hadith do not authorize simply killing christians like this. These people are animals, period! Yet they are clearly impressed by current trends throughout the world regarding the massive muslim on christian persecution that is taking place. Furthermore, they are clearly receptive to such trends. Lets look at why they are receptive to such trends.

While there are different ways of measuring threat and trends in islamic people's thinking or values (do you want sharia, is terrorism justified, should christians be killed, do you support DAESH, etc), all combined reveal a demonstrable portion of the islamic world are receptive to shar'ia, in some form or another, and sharia is antithetical to any notion of freedom, democracy, western culture, Asian culture, etc:

In the following instance the poll suggests 40% of UK muslims support sharia law (just this facet of the issue being receptive to sharia- this general mood regarding it). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

The following is a curious PEW document because it does not satisfactorily note the dichotomy regarding Pakistani's who support religious freedom and those who support Sharia; this appears as a difference without distinction and unless you understand islam you will miss it. Muslims do support religious freedom of other faiths (actually only Christianity and Judaism)! End of story. However, you must grasp what they are asserting- religious freedom as proscribed by sharia. Religious freedom within the framework of sharia, which we know is not freedom at all rather its slavery.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/

This is a comprehensive amalgam of polls by the Religion of Peace. One thing is abundantly clear: apologists for islamic aggression insist on stating there is a peaceful muslim majority but also vehemently protest that we actually have a comprehensive picture on the collective muslim psyche. I assert this is fraudulent. Whether or not one ever read a newspaper or looked out their window in the past 20 years these various polls over time and place paint a shocking portrait of a pathological ideology. Whether or not anyone ever read a poll all their life and only read the news and looked out their window they would similarly conclude the same thing- a shocking portrait of a pathological ideology.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Shariah

So, if statistical numbers do not add up to the proverbial 51% do apologists have a point? If only 49% or 50% of muslims want Sharia or related is the argument moot? Hardly. If any analysis finds 5, 10, 30% muslims want sharia this is no longer an academic exercise but an existential threat. Therefore, the artificial argument/line that we search for whether a majority support sharia or not is fraudulent.

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/15/pew-poll-analysis-a-billion-muslims-want-sharia-law/

My assumptions are based on looking out the window and scientific polls; its unassailable. Its self evident.

Edited April 18, 2015 by arjunadawn

[JockPieandBeans]

It would be natural for a devout muslim to belief they have the authority to throw christians to the sea, certainly if it supported their survival. However, I am not entirely certain it is typical. The koran and hadith do not authorize simply killing christians like this. These people are animals, period! Yet they are clearly impressed by current trends throughout the world regarding the massive muslim on christian persecution that is taking place. Furthermore, they are clearly receptive to such trends. Lets look at why they are receptive to such trends.

[SABloke]

And cue the outrage from Muslim leaders world wide.......ummm......

[simple1]

Off topic, but Pew's own analysis is a lot more nuanced than proposed by some posters. I do recall, think it was the UK, when there was a follow up on one of the polls for those supporting Sharia Law it was pointed out the harshness of sentences. many reversed their support.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

[JockPieandBeans]

And cue the outrage from Muslim leaders world wide.......ummm......

By Yevgeny Yevtushenko ( A Russian Poet and Dissident )

When truth is replaced by silence, the silence is a lie.---

Sums it up very well.

[arjunadawn]

Off topic, but Pew's own analysis is a lot more nuanced than proposed by some posters. I do recall, think it was the UK, when there was a follow up on one of the polls for those supporting Sharia Law it was pointed out the harshness of sentences. many reversed their support.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

Is this a fair observation? Maybe, but in this observation a core part of the problem is noted- education/information. There are many muslims, particularly in western lands, that are not scholarly, just as many christians or jews do not know ecclesiastic law. When questions regarding sharia are presented concurrent with punishments it would not surprise me (IMO) to find people modifying their views. In most cases polls can be manipulated at the front end to achieve desired results- to a point so all should be viewed cautiously. (In the case of the numerous sharia related polls it is the practical world observations which intuitively inform us the polls are valid- not scientific, I concede).

Nevertheless, when accommodations are made for such skewing there still remains incontrovertible evidence that the muslims of the world prefer sharia because it is integral to their faith. Unlike christians, jews, Buddhists, pagans, Hindus and others (to a point) who made room for secular law because their faith was flexible enough to permit coexistence, islam expressly wraps justice, polity, military, and social around the core tenets of the faith. Thus what actually remains is a war machine that also believes in god. The development of the koran did not take place in a contemplative cave receiving revelation from god (exclusively). The koran was formed in the crucible of oppression, conquest, migration, and consolidation of earthly power. The koran perfectly reflects this narrative and its template became the central imperative of acting on the flesh the commands of the faith- jihad!

Where simple1 keys on something (IMO) is in noting the places where the West can address some points of non military battling (ultimately I fear islam must clean its internal house or there will be nothing but war in the future, but the West must act regardless). In such places where polls suggest the above it is a potential point of opportunity for the West (potential). If "moderate muslims" can be found educated regarding the actual ramifications of shar'ia it might prove productive. However, I am Western and no matter how much I think I know it is quite possible that this suggestion would be an appalling concession to islamic jihad nevertheless. It might serve only to reinforce the need for sharia in some. But deep inside I think this remains an important observation simple1 makes. I think points like this should be considered to rebut sharia as a viable alternative for Western muslims (though I think it will fail).

Edited April 18, 2015 by arjunadawn

[Scott]

An off-topic, inflammatory post has been removed.

[manarak]

A vocal minority want sharia law. All muslims i have discussed that with here actually fear sharia law being implemented.

No. That is wrong. Large majorities in the Muslim world want the Islamic legal and moral code of sharia as the official law in their countries.

Your assumption is based on?

It would be natural for a devout muslim to belief they have the authority to throw christians to the sea, certainly if it supported their survival. However, I am not entirely certain it is typical. The koran and hadith do not authorize simply killing christians like this. These people are animals, period! Yet they are clearly impressed by current trends throughout the world regarding the massive muslim on christian persecution that is taking place. Furthermore, they are clearly receptive to such trends. Lets look at why they are receptive to such trends.

While there are different ways of measuring threat and trends in islamic people's thinking or values (do you want sharia, is terrorism justified, should christians be killed, do you support DAESH, etc), all combined reveal a demonstrable portion of the islamic world are receptive to shar'ia, in some form or another, and sharia is antithetical to any notion of freedom, democracy, western culture, Asian culture, etc:

In the following instance the poll suggests 40% of UK muslims support sharia law (just this facet of the issue being receptive to sharia- this general mood regarding it). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

The following is a curious PEW document because it does not satisfactorily note the dichotomy regarding Pakistani's who support religious freedom and those who support Sharia; this appears as a difference without distinction and unless you understand islam you will miss it. Muslims do support religious freedom of other faiths (actually only Christianity and Judaism)! End of story. However, you must grasp what they are asserting- religious freedom as proscribed by sharia. Religious freedom within the framework of sharia, which we know is not freedom at all rather its slavery.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/

This is a comprehensive amalgam of polls by the Religion of Peace. One thing is abundantly clear: apologists for islamic aggression insist on stating there is a peaceful muslim majority but also vehemently protest that we actually have a comprehensive picture on the collective muslim psyche. I assert this is fraudulent. Whether or not one ever read a newspaper or looked out their window in the past 20 years these various polls over time and place paint a shocking portrait of a pathological ideology. Whether or not anyone ever read a poll all their life and only read the news and looked out their window they would similarly conclude the same thing- a shocking portrait of a pathological ideology.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Shariah

So, if statistical numbers do not add up to the proverbial 51% do apologists have a point? If only 49% or 50% of muslims want Sharia or related is the argument moot? Hardly. If any analysis finds 5, 10, 30% muslims want sharia this is no longer an academic exercise but an existential threat. Therefore, the artificial argument/line that we search for whether a majority support sharia or not is fraudulent.

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/15/pew-poll-analysis-a-billion-muslims-want-sharia-law/

My assumptions are based on looking out the window and scientific polls; its unassailable. Its self evident.

Good post.

poll results: yuck. this is even worse than I feared.

"support sharia as state law" IMO reads the same as "being an extremist islamist"

the poll results are a good illustration of where the problem lies, i.e. it often lies in the majority of Muslims!

[Linky]

A vocal minority want sharia law. All muslims i have discussed that with here actually fear sharia law being implemented.

No. That is wrong. Large majorities in the Muslim world want the Islamic legal and moral code of sharia as the official law in their countries.

Your assumption is based on?

It would be natural for a devout muslim to belief they have the authority to throw christians to the sea, certainly if it supported their survival. However, I am not entirely certain it is typical. The koran and hadith do not authorize simply killing christians like this. These people are animals, period! Yet they are clearly impressed by current trends throughout the world regarding the massive muslim on christian persecution that is taking place. Furthermore, they are clearly receptive to such trends. Lets look at why they are receptive to such trends.

While there are different ways of measuring threat and trends in islamic people's thinking or values (do you want sharia, is terrorism justified, should christians be killed, do you support DAESH, etc), all combined reveal a demonstrable portion of the islamic world are receptive to shar'ia, in some form or another, and sharia is antithetical to any notion of freedom, democracy, western culture, Asian culture, etc:

In the following instance the poll suggests 40% of UK muslims support sharia law (just this facet of the issue being receptive to sharia- this general mood regarding it). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

The following is a curious PEW document because it does not satisfactorily note the dichotomy regarding Pakistani's who support religious freedom and those who support Sharia; this appears as a difference without distinction and unless you understand islam you will miss it. Muslims do support religious freedom of other faiths (actually only Christianity and Judaism)! End of story. However, you must grasp what they are asserting- religious freedom as proscribed by sharia. Religious freedom within the framework of sharia, which we know is not freedom at all rather its slavery.
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/

This is a comprehensive amalgam of polls by the Religion of Peace. One thing is abundantly clear: apologists for islamic aggression insist on stating there is a peaceful muslim majority but also vehemently protest that we actually have a comprehensive picture on the collective muslim psyche. I assert this is fraudulent. Whether or not one ever read a newspaper or looked out their window in the past 20 years these various polls over time and place paint a shocking portrait of a pathological ideology. Whether or not anyone ever read a poll all their life and only read the news and looked out their window they would similarly conclude the same thing- a shocking portrait of a pathological ideology.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Shariah

So, if statistical numbers do not add up to the proverbial 51% do apologists have a point? If only 49% or 50% of muslims want Sharia or related is the argument moot? Hardly. If any analysis finds 5, 10, 30% muslims want sharia this is no longer an academic exercise but an existential threat. Therefore, the artificial argument/line that we search for whether a majority support sharia or not is fraudulent.
https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/15/pew-poll-analysis-a-billion-muslims-want-sharia-law/

My assumptions are based on looking out the window and scientific polls; its unassailable. Its self evident.

Good post.

poll results: yuck. this is even worse than I feared.
"support sharia as state law" IMO reads the same as "being an extremist islamist"
the poll results are a good illustration of where the problem lies, i.e. it often lies in the majority of Muslims!

So wrong

[DefaultName]

What is it with this invasion of europe by these africans ?

Send everyone of them back (maybe after a good singapore caining) and let them know in places like libya that coming over is futile.

The claim is that these people have to escape the turmoil, violence and killings in Libya... but somehow the rest of the entire Continent of Africa has not one place that they want to go ... simply amazing ...

The answer is simple; they aren't refugees, they're economic migrants.

[simple1]

What is it with this invasion of europe by these africans ?

Send everyone of them back (maybe after a good singapore caining) and let them know in places like libya that coming over is futile.

The claim is that these people have to escape the turmoil, violence and killings in Libya... but somehow the rest of the entire Continent of Africa has not one place that they want to go ... simply amazing ...

The answer is simple; they aren't refugees, they're economic migrants.

True, some would be, but not all. Many are running from Muslim upon Muslim violence (millions just from Syria) as well as Arab and African Christians. Not an expert but would assume many of the routes taken are dictated by the human traffickers / smugglers. I believe many of the heavily corrupt dictatorships endemic throughout the region wouldn't give a rats arse about the rights and conditions for refugees.

As there are millions in refugee camps throughout Africa and M.E., mostly without hope of resettlement within the coming 10 / 20 years can at the very least understand the motivation to enter Europe rather than spending decades in refugee camps

[geriatrickid]

And these people will be YOUR neighbours in Europe. I will stay in Thailand!

There's this thing going on in the south of Thailand. Many Thais are neighbors with the people responsible for the violence.

You can stay in Thailand, but that does not mean you will be safe. Do not be complacent or assume that you are untouchable. This violence can reach everywhere.

[geriatrickid]

Yes, and these muslims are welcome to Europe.

As welcome as HIV.

Sadly, these people are carriers of some very dangerous contagious diseases (e.g. TB, hepatitis) and it will cost the host governments significant amounts of money to treat the diseases. I shudder at the public health implications associated with the entry of thousands of unscreened people who have spent months living in unsanitary conditions and exposed to contagious diseases. If people are worried about measles and whooping cough epidemics now, just consider what would happen if a few thousand more infected carriers were in circulation.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. The topic is not about the US.

[ABCer]

If they were all black at least it wasnot racist

Was thinking the same. Headline could just as easily said Black people throw.....

Why should a headline say black people? When clearly Muslims attacked Christians.

Or is it another one of your excuses for Arabs /Muslims killing people ?

Let me guess , if Christians were not on the boat , Muslims would not have to kill them, right?

Stop trying to make it a racist issue.

Stop trying to be politically correct.

Call a spade - spade!

This is, was and always will be a religious issue.

Islam against the rest of the World issue.

And being in Thailand is not an exemption from the World problems.

No need to go to Europe to see this.

These people ARE our neighbors, are living next door and are killing indiscriminately. Right here. Right now.

There is no glee in this post

Edited April 19, 2015 by ABCer

[manarak]

It would be natural for a devout muslim to belief they have the authority to throw christians to the sea, certainly if it supported their survival. However, I am not entirely certain it is typical. The koran and hadith do not authorize simply killing christians like this. These people are animals, period! Yet they are clearly impressed by current trends throughout the world regarding the massive muslim on christian persecution that is taking place. Furthermore, they are clearly receptive to such trends. Lets look at why they are receptive to such trends.

While there are different ways of measuring threat and trends in islamic people's thinking or values (do you want sharia, is terrorism justified, should christians be killed, do you support DAESH, etc), all combined reveal a demonstrable portion of the islamic world are receptive to shar'ia, in some form or another, and sharia is antithetical to any notion of freedom, democracy, western culture, Asian culture, etc:

In the following instance the poll suggests 40% of UK muslims support sharia law (just this facet of the issue being receptive to sharia- this general mood regarding it). http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

The following is a curious PEW document because it does not satisfactorily note the dichotomy regarding Pakistani's who support religious freedom and those who support Sharia; this appears as a difference without distinction and unless you understand islam you will miss it. Muslims do support religious freedom of other faiths (actually only Christianity and Judaism)! End of story. However, you must grasp what they are asserting- religious freedom as proscribed by sharia. Religious freedom within the framework of sharia, which we know is not freedom at all rather its slavery.

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-exec/

This is a comprehensive amalgam of polls by the Religion of Peace. One thing is abundantly clear: apologists for islamic aggression insist on stating there is a peaceful muslim majority but also vehemently protest that we actually have a comprehensive picture on the collective muslim psyche. I assert this is fraudulent. Whether or not one ever read a newspaper or looked out their window in the past 20 years these various polls over time and place paint a shocking portrait of a pathological ideology. Whether or not anyone ever read a poll all their life and only read the news and looked out their window they would similarly conclude the same thing- a shocking portrait of a pathological ideology.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Shariah

So, if statistical numbers do not add up to the proverbial 51% do apologists have a point? If only 49% or 50% of muslims want Sharia or related is the argument moot? Hardly. If any analysis finds 5, 10, 30% muslims want sharia this is no longer an academic exercise but an existential threat. Therefore, the artificial argument/line that we search for whether a majority support sharia or not is fraudulent.

https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2015/03/15/pew-poll-analysis-a-billion-muslims-want-sharia-law/

My assumptions are based on looking out the window and scientific polls; its unassailable. Its self evident.

Good post.

poll results: yuck. this is even worse than I feared.

"support sharia as state law" IMO reads the same as "being an extremist islamist"

the poll results are a good illustration of where the problem lies, i.e. it often lies in the majority of Muslims!

So wrong

your reply is wrong