Many Thai drivers/riders become aggressive when you overtake them. Why?

[Gweiloman]

So to get back to the topic and away from the trolls.

Why do so many Thais become aggressive when you overtake them?

Are there social or cultural reasons behind it, in your opinion?

My own experience and observation is that most Thais can't be bothered when you overtake them. If the Thais that you overtake become aggressive, it seems clear to me that it's something about the way that you overtake them. Either too close, or cutting them off dangerously, or showing off on your big 500 cc bike or just generally being offensive (much like your posts).

I ride often with a lot of other big bike riders, both Thais and farangs. I have seldom noticed this behaviour that you describe. In fact, the opposite is true - very often, we get the thumbs up when we pass slower riders. Yes, there is the occasional "aggressive" driver/rider. However, it usually transpires that they are in a hurry to get somewhere as evident by their dangerous and reckless overtaking moves on other motorists as well - nothing to do with you overtaking them.

[Gweiloman]

Best we stay with our bigger machines and just ride the way we have been doing all these while. After all, it has stood us in good stead, right?

Complacency, mixed a touch of arrogance.

Newbie (and dangerous) mindset.

Let's all hope your wake-up call doesn't coincide with the production of a 100kg plastic bag of tomato paste.

Sorry, wrong on all counts. I've probably driven/ridden more miles and in more countries than you can count, in all sorts of conditions, on road and off. I've had my wake up calls in my early 20's which is why I'm a much safer driver now in my 50's.

[Gweiloman]

This thread is at least as interesting as the "Are big bikes safer than scooters?" thread. This is why we have TV bike forum. To be able to discuss such things politely and with open minds. Thats not possible in a forum solely for big bikes. Love it

That's why a lot of BB riders can't be bothered to post here anymore. Makes no sense to debate anything with someone who rides at 70 kph on Thai highways.

Whatever, we are happy you still join us every day. Be honest, you love TV too

Nah, just come on to have a good laugh at the rubbish posted here and there's lots on this thread, haha.

[Myaimistrue]

So to get back to the topic and away from the trolls.

Why do so many Thais become aggressive when you overtake them?

Are there social or cultural reasons behind it, in your opinion?

My own experience and observation is that most Thais can't be bothered when you overtake them. If the Thais that you overtake become aggressive, it seems clear to me that it's something about the way that you overtake them. Either too close, or cutting them off dangerously, or showing off on your big 500 cc bike or just generally being offensive (much like your posts).

I ride often with a lot of other big bike riders, both Thais and farangs. I have seldom noticed this behaviour that you describe. In fact, the opposite is true - very often, we get the thumbs up when we pass slower riders. Yes, there is the occasional "aggressive" driver/rider. However, it usually transpires that they are in a hurry to get somewhere as evident by their dangerous and reckless overtaking moves on other motorists as well - nothing to do with you overtaking them.

You've never come up on a rider who has accelerated to try to prevent you from passing? This happens to me almost daily on my Ramkhamhaeng Road commute.

[seedy]

One Troll / Flaming Post Removed

[Gweiloman]

So to get back to the topic and away from the trolls.

Why do so many Thais become aggressive when you overtake them?

Are there social or cultural reasons behind it, in your opinion?

My own experience and observation is that most Thais can't be bothered when you overtake them. If the Thais that you overtake become aggressive, it seems clear to me that it's something about the way that you overtake them. Either too close, or cutting them off dangerously, or showing off on your big 500 cc bike or just generally being offensive (much like your posts).

I ride often with a lot of other big bike riders, both Thais and farangs. I have seldom noticed this behaviour that you describe. In fact, the opposite is true - very often, we get the thumbs up when we pass slower riders. Yes, there is the occasional "aggressive" driver/rider. However, it usually transpires that they are in a hurry to get somewhere as evident by their dangerous and reckless overtaking moves on other motorists as well - nothing to do with you overtaking them.

You've never come up on a rider who has accelerated to try to prevent you from passing? This happens to me almost daily on my Ramkhamhaeng Road commute.

Not that I've ever noticed. On RKH, most of the time, one is splitting traffic anyway. Few opportunities for overtaking, except on the flyovers. Same as on Sukhumvit, Asok, Petchaburi and Rama 9.

[Shurup]

My own experience and observation is that most Thais can't be bothered when you overtake them. If the Thais that you overtake become aggressive, it seems clear to me that it's something about the way that you overtake them. Either too close, or cutting them off dangerously, or showing off on your big 500 cc bike or just generally being offensive (much like your posts).

I ride often with a lot of other big bike riders, both Thais and farangs. I have seldom noticed this behaviour that you describe. In fact, the opposite is true - very often, we get the thumbs up when we pass slower riders. Yes, there is the occasional "aggressive" driver/rider. However, it usually transpires that they are in a hurry to get somewhere as evident by their dangerous and reckless overtaking moves on other motorists as well - nothing to do with you overtaking them.

You've never come up on a rider who has accelerated to try to prevent you from passing? This happens to me almost daily on my Ramkhamhaeng Road commute.

Never happened to me and I can confirm what G-man is saying is true as I've witnessed the same behavior from other (Thai and non Thai) riders. I usually get thumbs up and often Thais on smaller big bikes try to snap a picture of me with the bike while we're waiting for the lights.

I had one Thai rider following close behind me for a while filtering through the traffic and when I signaled for him to pass me he just fell back.

Maybe the OP and others (DELETED) making faces and trying to show off and that pissed Thai's off? Maybe their big bikes aren't really big bikes. Or maybe they ride their big bikes as they would ride scooters, or quickly getting ahead from the stop light and then just "pottering about" and getting in the way of the riders who can't out-accelerate them but would like to ride faster?

Don't know the exact circumstances but I'd think that the OP (and few others) doing something wrong if they get this reaction from Thai riders.

Edited April 25, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[wantan]

^

>Maybe their big bikes aren't really big bikes.

Interesting thought, guess you need to be a "serious rider" to understand it

[Shurup]

^

>Maybe their big bikes aren't really big bikes.

Interesting thought, guess you need to be a "serious rider" to understand it

Not sure what you found so funny but some many folks apparently think their PCX is a big bike. That was the meaning behind the sentence you quoted.

[wantan]

^

And, many thai people call a 150cc a big bike. Whats the problem?

EDIT:

Why is the size of the bike important for the topic of this thread? Some people with big bikes report agressive behaviour, others with smaller bikes.

Edited April 25, 2015 by wantan

[Myaimistrue]

My own experience and observation is that most Thais can't be bothered when you overtake them. If the Thais that you overtake become aggressive, it seems clear to me that it's something about the way that you overtake them. Either too close, or cutting them off dangerously, or showing off on your big 500 cc bike or just generally being offensive (much like your posts).

I ride often with a lot of other big bike riders, both Thais and farangs. I have seldom noticed this behaviour that you describe. In fact, the opposite is true - very often, we get the thumbs up when we pass slower riders. Yes, there is the occasional "aggressive" driver/rider. However, it usually transpires that they are in a hurry to get somewhere as evident by their dangerous and reckless overtaking moves on other motorists as well - nothing to do with you overtaking them.

You've never come up on a rider who has accelerated to try to prevent you from passing? This happens to me almost daily on my Ramkhamhaeng Road commute.

Never happened to me and I can confirm what G-man is saying is true as I've witnessed the same behavior from other (Thai and non Thai) riders. I usually get thumbs up and often Thais on smaller big bikes try to snap a picture of me with the bike while we're waiting for the lights.

I had one Thai rider following close behind me for a while filtering through the traffic and when I signaled for him to pass me he just fell back.

Maybe the OP and others (DELETED) making faces and trying to show off and that pissed Thai's off? Maybe their big bikes aren't really big bikes. Or maybe they ride their big bikes as they would ride scooters, or quickly getting ahead from the stop light and then just "pottering about" and getting in the way of the riders who can't out-accelerate them but would like to ride faster?

Don't know the exact circumstances but I'd think that the OP (and few others) doing something wrong if they get this reaction from Thai riders.

So if we see this type of behavior it's because we are doing something wrong and causing it? And if we don't see it, we are good riders? I think it has more to do with the time of day, where we ride and why. I think it is true that how we ride could play into it as well, but I seriously doubt that all of us who see it are riding the same way.

[Shurup]

I think it is true that how we ride could play into it as well, but I seriously doubt that all of us who see it are riding the same way.

Yes but from the replies in this topic it appears that there are more who don't see this type of behavior.

[Myaimistrue]

I think it is true that how we ride could play into it as well, but I seriously doubt that all of us who see it are riding the same way.

Yes but from the replies in this topic it appears that there are more who don't see this type of behavior.

It seems to be evening out some, with daily commuters seeing it more than recreational riders, which is what I would expect.

[wantan]

There are already some interesting thoughts here. Riding "too slow" can cause agression. But it shouldnt! There isnt any traffic law saying i have to accelerate full throttle when lights get green. And no law saying i have to risk my life by going fast through traffic jams. And so on. If thais get agressive about this its not OK. It isnt OK in western countries either, but this is Thailand and so we discuss circumstances in Thailand.

And there is a big difference between our home countries and Thailand. In our home countries people honk the horn and such things. Here they push you from the street and really endanger you. You get forced to adapt, to ride faster than you want. Even many serious big bike riders admit to this.

And why does it happen? Because there is basically no law enforced. Some like this, others dont. I dont care, its not my country. But many thais dont like it, this i know for sure. So dont say its the "thai way, stop whining". Its more than justified to talk about it.

EDIT:
After submitting this post i saw the title of this thread again: "Many Thai drivers/riders become aggressive when you overtake them. Why?"
Why are we now talking about riding too slow? How can you overtake someone and at the same moment ride too slow?

Edited April 25, 2015 by wantan

[English_M_in_Bkk]

There are already some interesting thoughts here. Riding "too slow" can cause agression. But it shouldnt! There isnt any traffic law saying i have to accelerate full throttle when lights get green. And no law saying i have to risk my life by going fast through traffic jams. And so on. If thais get agressive about this its not OK. It isnt OK in western countries either, but this is Thailand and so we discuss circumstances in Thailand.

And there is a big difference between our home countries and Thailand. In our home countries people honk the horn and such things. Here they push you from the street and really endanger you. You get forced to adapt, to ride faster than you want. Even many serious big bike riders admit to this.

And why does it happen? Because there is basically no law enforced. Some like this, others dont. I dont care, its not my country. But many thais dont like it, this i know for sure. So dont say its the "thai way, stop whining". Its more than justified to talk about it.

EDIT:

After submitting this post i saw the title of this thread again: "Many Thai drivers/riders become aggressive when you overtake them. Why?"

Why are we now talking about riding too slow? How can you overtake someone and at the same moment ride too slow?

I certainly don't say rubbish like it is the Thai way and I just don't see this kind of behaviour. I see the odd idiot , but daily aggressiveness from other bikers, no never get it and it is so rare.

No one is saying you shouldn't be riding slow. I have ridden scooters to big bikes in this city, ridden slow and fast, and I just don't get aggression from other riders. nor do a lot of other people who ride here.

I keep thinking of people I knew back in the UK, when they went out expecting trouble they always got it. When I ride I don't go around looking for aggressiveness or expecting <deleted> everywhere. I ride defensively and offensively, depending on the situation and I am respectful to other riders,

Cars? That is a different story, but not all are bad. And last I am saying on this subject, kind of boring now.

[mark131v]

About the rights and wrongs of driving/riding too slow why should it not cause aggression it does in the rest of the world!

If someone is so selfish or in their own private dream world when waiting for a traffic light to change or are so self absorbed that they do not care about holding up their fellow commuters who have places to be and livings to earn I can completely understand aggression and frustration creeping in

It isn't right and in a perfect world it would not happen....guess what it aint a perfect world and this happens everywhere, see what happens if you are on a bicycle in the UK holding up traffic there's a good chance you could end up the victim of a bit of road rage or in the US you might get something worse than a few verbals

People do get nicked in the UK for going too slow and holding up traffic and I remember seeing something somewhere that there was a thought that going slow and holding up traffic was just as dangerous as speeding as it makes other users angry and frustrated

All that said I have never seen any of the things described in the OP done by bikers though I have seen a lot of aggression from people in cars. I have also seen an over abundance of self absorbed people pottering about with not a thought for anyone else on the road so thinking about it I am surprised there isn't more aggression

Edited April 25, 2015 by mark131v

[Shurup]

EDIT:

After submitting this post i saw the title of this thread again: "Many Thai drivers/riders become aggressive when you overtake them. Why?"

Why are we now talking about riding too slow? How can you overtake someone and at the same moment ride too slow?

That was exactly my point when I said someone takes off from stop light and then just "potter about". It is possible to out-accelerate someone and then ride slow when you get up to "your" speed. Many on the smaller bikes would probably want to ride faster but can't accelerate that hard so they get stuck behind a riders who's not willing to ride waster. I would get pissed too at this type of riders.

[wantan]

EDIT:

After submitting this post i saw the title of this thread again: "Many Thai drivers/riders become aggressive when you overtake them. Why?"

Why are we now talking about riding too slow? How can you overtake someone and at the same moment ride too slow?

That was exactly my point when I said someone takes off from stop light and then just "potter about". It is possible to out-accelerate someone and then ride slow when you get up to "your" speed. Many on the smaller bikes would probably want to ride faster but can't accelerate that hard so they get stuck behind a riders who's not willing to ride waster. I would get pissed too at this type of riders.

Sounds as if this could be one possible reason for what the OP is saying. Some cars do this too, they try to block you from passing them. Maybe some riders do this too.

Or maybe some riders just have fun accelerating at green light and then fall back to their normal speed. We all want to have some fun. Nothing wrong about it. Who wants to force me to always ride fast? Why being negative and call this "pottering".

Seems there are many different characters on public streets. Same as on this forum. Sound normal that some different opinions result in trouble. At the end its space payed and shared by the public. If i want to accelerate hard at the lights and then keep on riding with just 50kmh it should be OK. If others see this as annoyance and get agressive something is wrong imo.

[Happy Grumpy]

People seem to have tuned into that it is a big bike overtaking smaller bikes/scooters thing.

It happened just as much when I was a cbr150 and overtook Thais on bigger bikes (by overtook, I generally mean moving into another lane because I can see that the lane we are in is about to become congested, they get stuck in it and I cruise past in the less congested lane). Ninja 250's mainly as one usually doesn't see bigger bikes in a city commuting situation (back then anyway). The same when I was on a CBR250, the same I am now on a CBR500. Scooters, 150's, 250's, 300's, 500's, 650's, all the same, about 15% become infuriated (one would have to guess) and then attack you aggressively at full speed to cut you up and get ahead, then often gloat.

I say about 10-15% of scooters. But probably 90% of Thai ninja riders when I passed them on my CBR150, 250 (smaller bikes) and my 500 (bigger bike).

Why?

Being bigger or smaller doesn't seem too much to do with it.

[Happy Grumpy]

You've never come up on a rider who has accelerated to try to prevent you from passing? This happens to me almost daily on my Ramkhamhaeng Road commute.

Yup.

And how does he respond then if you judge the traffic and roads much better than him and he becomes stuck and you cruise past?

I would wager that he risks life and death to aggressively get back in front of you.

[Shurup]

People seem to have tuned into that it is a big bike overtaking smaller bikes/scooters thing.

Being bigger or smaller doesn't seem too much to do with it.

Right, have not much to do with the bigger or smaller. I see no difference when I ride my Ninja 300 vs Diavel vs my older Dragstar 400 (though didn't ride the last one for a long time now).

So again, you're doing something wrong to piss people, intentionally or not.

[johnsell50]

"johnsell50, you from the USA by any chance.....

There is a whole world out there that rides bikes and do so in a different and arguably better trained and safer way than in the US, why exactly do you believe he would be banned for filtering through traffic

I happen to believe that people pottering along or too scared to ride in traffic are actually as big danger to themselves and cause a lot of annoyance on the roads"

Ah, Another Yank Basher. Our countries have been around longer so we must be smarter. LOL!

How he is riding is not called "Filtering", it is called speeding and reckless endangerment of others on the road.

And really funny, me "Pottering along". That is something I have never in my life been accused of. I have been accused, and found guilty, of speeding, sometimes over 300 KPH; more times than you have fingers and toes to count on. I am not "Scared" of anything. There is a big difference between "Scared", and loving life so much that I do not court death.

[Myaimistrue]

People seem to have tuned into that it is a big bike overtaking smaller bikes/scooters thing.

Being bigger or smaller doesn't seem too much to do with it.

Right, have not much to do with the bigger or smaller. I see no difference when I ride my Ninja 300 vs Diavel vs my older Dragstar 400 (though didn't ride the last one for a long time now).

So again, you're doing something wrong to piss people, intentionally or not.

Um, what did he do wrong?

[Myaimistrue]

You've never come up on a rider who has accelerated to try to prevent you from passing? This happens to me almost daily on my Ramkhamhaeng Road commute.

Yup.

And how does he respond then if you judge the traffic and roads much better than him and he becomes stuck and you cruise past?

I would wager that he risks life and death to aggressively get back in front of you.

Yes, good point and totally true, though in all honesty, I'm gone if I get an opening, so don't really know what they are doing behind me. But I do agree about most Ninja 250 riders, especially with modified exhausts, who seem to have more to prove than other bike riders! A huge generalization, I know, but that's been my experience. Edited April 25, 2015 by Myaimistrue

[mark131v]

Blimey Jonsell50 your are a bit touchy aren't you, where in the statement am I bashing anything I am merely pointing out that virtually all the rest of the world do it one way and other than California you lot do it another way, you call it reckless endangerment where as I call it using the road space properly to filter through traffic, just because it is not what you do does not make it wrong, you'd think after living so much in your first 30 years you would have developed a thicker skin....

ps. sounds like scared to me

'' I don't ride here because way too may crazies, both Thai and foreign, the same reason I quit riding in America'''

so there you go another none rider giving us the vast experience of his not riding in Thailand, you couldn't make it up....

Edited April 25, 2015 by mark131v

[Happy Grumpy]

People seem to have tuned into that it is a big bike overtaking smaller bikes/scooters thing.

Being bigger or smaller doesn't seem too much to do with it.

Right, have not much to do with the bigger or smaller. I see no difference when I ride my Ninja 300 vs Diavel vs my older Dragstar 400 (though didn't ride the last one for a long time now).

So again, you're doing something wrong to piss people, intentionally or not.

Um, what did he do wrong?

You could replace 'He' with 'The 18 people on the first few pages who also say that it is a common occurrence'.

To sedate his trolling.... the only thing I'm 'doing to people' is judging the road better than them and riding past them as they get stuck, I (35 yr old Westerner) have an aftermarket exhaust (not hooligan loud), wear a protective jacket and reflective vest, gloves, decent open face helmet and sunglasses.

About 10% of Thais on scooter and almost all Thais on similar size bikes become furious (obviously) and risk life and death to get back ahead of me, often ultra-aggressively. Then often there will be gloating. It's as if somebody has just pushed a button in them marked 'Fury. Kill.'

Edited April 25, 2015 by Happy Grumpy

[watcharacters]

Aggressive says it all for me.

[johnsell50]

My skin is plenty thick but sometimes I do get tired of the superior attitudes. It isn't just a difference in terms it is a matter of living life like you don't love it or choosing to have at least a little common sense and not endangering yourself and others with your behavior.

And again, putting people down is the last resort of losing a discussion.

Edited April 25, 2015 by johnsell50

[Myaimistrue]

Blimey Jonsell50 your are a bit touchy aren't you, where in the statement am I bashing anything I am merely pointing out that virtually all the rest of the world do it one way and other than California you lot do it another way, you call it reckless endangerment where as I call it using the road space properly to filter through traffic, just because it is not what you do does not make it wrong, you'd think after living so much in your first 30 years you would have developed a thicker skin....

ps. sounds like scared to me

'' I don't ride here because way too may crazies, both Thai and foreign, the same reason I quit riding in America'''

A bit off topic, but I was driving a compact rental car in California last year when I noticed some bikers filling up at a gas station and revving their engines while waiting for their buddies. They sounded like 600's, at least. I got on the highway and was driving along at 80mph when I saw their lights coming up behind me, weaving recklessly through traffic. Then I heard them, then I felt them as they literally slalomed through traffic at well over 100mph. I just gripped the wheel tight and held my line as that little car shook when they went by. They obviously had no fear of the police and in a pack like that, I don't think they could've been stopped without considerable manpower and coordination.

[Happy Grumpy]

Group riders in America (where there seems to be a lot of jock-like ego issues in many riders and groups) seem to be showing off and being 'part of the pack', so to speak, which I feel is very, very different to the individual aggression being talked about as per the OP.