Maize and Rotational Crops

[farmerjo]

Hi Guys, OP thanks for starting this topic, has given me some answers but not enough.

I have access to some land in Ubon and thinking to do some corn there, about 80 rai. What are the most used seeds here, anyone using PAC559 or 339 ?? and what yields per rai are you all getting. Of course planting density plays a huge part in that, so how close do you all plant, 36", 30" or 20", seeds per rai ??

I have seen some about fertilizers before seeding, but what you guys use after seeding and at what times and what amounts ?? Any info you guys can give is appreciated

 

Again, thanks for a great topic, hope there is much more to come

Firstly welcome jmicaelk,

 

As far as seed goes probably best to see what your neighbours are using in the area and plant a couple of different varieties.

 

I plant 999,seems to be reliable here,tried 339 not so good and have some 559 but not planted as a bit late this year.

 

Wayned plants 777 and Murrinman's got cp888.

 

A lot would depend on rainfall,time of year and soil type.

 

Yields,Wayned has 1150/kilo's rai in the past on a good season,i'm still struggling with weed control so down at 600/kilo's rai at the moment.

 

Spacings,most of the thai planters are either on 30" or 24".

 

Seeds per rai,never had the patience to sit down and count out a 5 kilo bag.They mainly work on kilo's per rai.I have my 30" seeder set up to put out 3.5 kilo's/rai,my old ridgid tyne seeder on 24" was set at 2.8 kilo's/rai which grew more yield but always looked ugly because it couldn't handle any trash at all and would have a lot of skips in the rows.

 

As far as fertilizers go,if you go back up the page to my soil sample post and download it.You will see whats been recommended for me and i would say besides the trace elements recommend pertaining to my soil the rest would be statas quo to achieve a decent yield.

 

Also on the back of the seed packet it gives basic fertilizer recommendations.

 

I like to do a few different trials so my current crop was planted with no fertilizer and and has been given liquid fertilizer,i will apply 2 more times at around 15 days and 30 days.

 

A packet of 559 below with rates and fertilizer,apologies its on its side.

The liquid fertilizer i'm trialing.

[jmicaelk]

Thanks a lot farmer

haha, yeah counting the bag would not be fun I meant more in the lines of how many plants per rai that you aiming at ?? The economical planting in USA is around 34-35,000 per acre, converted to rai that would be about 13,000. Is anyone close to that ?? How many seeds per hole you planting at ??

Looking at people around there doesn't give much, they just throw down some between rice plantings and hope for the best, but I will have them look out for anyone taking it a bit more serious.

I will have the fields irrigated so hope that combats any drought, will be planting in December after rice is picked up, but will be building up the water capacity first, so need to read more about daily water needs per rai, have 2 holes drilled and a small pond at the moment. If all works well we will be moving from rice to corn on a part of the fields for the whole year. But I guess I'm getting the hardest time of the year for my trails haha

I will look at the document again and read up more about liquid fertilizer

Regards Micael

[wayned]

We plant in 30" rows.we harvest with John Deere combines and the corn headers are set for 30" rows. I use 777 but some others use 559, I don't know which is best. The year before last I got around 1150 kilos/rai. Last year I got around 700-800 kilos/Rai due to the drought.. This year I got 0.0 kilos/Rai. We planted in late April and ploughed it all under in June due to the lack of rain. It should be ready for harvest now. We replanted about a month ago and this crop looks good and we have been getting rain almost every evening.

We normally only plant one crop, in late April. It is harvested in early September and then we plough the fields and plant sunflowers. When they are harvested nothing is planted until the corn the next April. The sunflowers stalks are ploughed under and the land is left to rest. We are busy harvesting sugar cane. Prior to planting the corn we haul in truckloads of "chicken house sweepings" and spread and work it in.. The soil is very fertile, have never had a soil sample analyzed, and I don't use any other fertilizer.

All of the farmers around here operate from the same play book and only plant one crop/year and then sunflowers. This year it looks like it's going to be on crop of corn and nothing else. I haven't really thought about planting anything after the corn is harvested.

Tomorrow I have a crew coming to hand spread 46-0-0 in the sugar cane while you can still walk the rows. It still looks pitiful even though we had some rain recently. Normally harvest would start in November but it looks like a late harvest the same as last year.

If you're looking to make some money you need to sit down and really figure the costs. If you have to hire someone to do everything for you, the costs (and aggravation) add up fast. I am part of a small coop with Thai farmers that I got involved with(started) years ago.. As I have said, it was a Lark that has turned into and Albatross and I am a Loony Bird for ever getting involved! Good luck!

[jmicaelk]

Thanks Wayned

Yeah it is the costs I need to get a grip on, seed costs are not too hard to count, but all fertilizers and other things is the hard part. I have seen lots of different numbers on fertilizing before seeding, so what is a good number for you guys ?? Also cost after planting ?? I got prices on plowing, 200 b per rai, must be 3 plow, and 400 b to make it look nice they said, I assume 7 disc. Waiting for prices on harvest and seeding, but I do see the need of getting some tractor, but better see how well it grows first.

I hope to grow it year round with irrigation when needed, getting cow manure sometime next year should help keep costs of fertilizer down, can get some pig and chicken for the start, but really want to work up the lands so they can support corn better, will have to do soil sampling soon to see where they are at

1150 kg per rai sounds ok, do you see those as maximum with good water, or possibility to increase ?? and if so what way

Regards Micael

[farmerjo]

Just been on another site and they say a medium size seed would have 3200 to a kilo.

I plant at 3.5 kilo/rai so 11,200 plants/rai approximately or 28,000 to the acre.

[jmicaelk]

Thanks, yes I have seen numbers between 3000-3500 seeds per kg, but also seen up to 6500 per kg, not sure how the PAC seeds are, but will have to check that up. I will have to decide later what row space to use when I know what equipment there is or if I buy a planter, but have to harvest too. I don't think I will be hand picking 80+ rai haha

So you put down single seeds ??

Regards Micael

[farmerjo]

Thanks, yes I have seen numbers between 3000-3500 seeds per kg, but also seen up to 6500 per kg, not sure how the PAC seeds are, but will have to check that up. I will have to decide later what row space to use when I know what equipment there is or if I buy a planter, but have to harvest too. I don't think I will be hand picking 80+ rai haha

So you put down single seeds ??

Regards Micael

Yes just single seeds,thats all the thai planters are set up for although i do end up with a few double rows when i lose track off where my last row planted was.

[jmicaelk]

Oh I was not aware of that, I better look at some planters. So with germination at 75% you end up with a lot of holes or is germination of these seeds better than 75% ??

Regards Micael

[wayned]

Thanks, yes I have seen numbers between 3000-3500 seeds per kg, but also seen up to 6500 per kg, not sure how the PAC seeds are, but will have to check that up. I will have to decide later what row space to use when I know what equipment there is or if I buy a planter, but have to harvest too. I don't think I will be hand picking 80+ rai haha

So you put down single seeds ??

Regards Micael

Yes just single seeds,thats all the thai planters are set up for although i do end up with a few double rows when i lose track off where my last row planted was.

How can lose track with GPS?

If it was me I wouldn't remember if I planted the field or not if I didn't put up a stake with an empty PAQC777 bag on it! If I had GPS I probably wouldn't remember how set it up unless I re-read the manual and I would have forgotten where I put the manual!

[wayned]

Thanks, yes I have seen numbers between 3000-3500 seeds per kg, but also seen up to 6500 per kg, not sure how the PAC seeds are, but will have to check that up. I will have to decide later what row space to use when I know what equipment there is or if I buy a planter, but have to harvest too. I don't think I will be hand picking 80+ rai haha

So you put down single seeds ??

Regards Micael

The row spacing on the planters can be adjusted fairly easily. However the row spacing on most harvesters cannot. We have two John Deere corn and bean combines, a 6620 and a 9500. The row spacing that they can harvest depends on the corn header. There are many different corn headers depending on the number of rows and the spacing. As I said most plant with a 30" spacing. I imported a 6 row corn head with 30 inch spacing and a 6 row corn head with a 36" spacing from the US. The 6 row, 30" one has been modified to a 4 row, 30" and is used on the 6620. The 6 row, 36" one has been modified to a 5 row, 30" and is used on the 9500. The main reason for modification was to make the header no wider than the front wheel base of the combine to provide access to small fields. It was not an easy modification as the housing had to be decrease in width, the auger cut and lowered and the auger flooring cut and reshaped because we also changed the angle of the gatherers to allow a shallower cut. All of the corn harvesters are set for 30" spacing where I live. We would not be able to modify them to cut 24" spacing do the the width of the gatherers and I don't think that JD sells a header that does. After looking at the pictures of Farmer Joe's Kubota set-up, it might be able to do 24" centers..

Last year we charged 600 baht/rai for harvest loaded in your trucks. If you wanted us to transport it to your buyer it would cost extra depending on distance. This year we will also buy the corn since we have built a weigh station and drying area.

[farmerjo]

Oh I was not aware of that, I better look at some planters. So with germination at 75% you end up with a lot of holes or is germination of these seeds better than 75% ??

Regards Micael

The germination rate i'm pretty sure is on the back of the seed packet if you can read thai.

All local planters are plate seeders,you can change plates for different seed size and the rate is adjusted of the drive wheel sprocket.

[farmerjo]

Thanks, yes I have seen numbers between 3000-3500 seeds per kg, but also seen up to 6500 per kg, not sure how the PAC seeds are, but will have to check that up. I will have to decide later what row space to use when I know what equipment there is or if I buy a planter, but have to harvest too. I don't think I will be hand picking 80+ rai haha

So you put down single seeds ??

Regards Micael

The row spacing on the planters can be adjusted fairly easily. However the row spacing on most harvesters cannot. We have two John Deere corn and bean combines, a 6620 and a 9500. The row spacing that they can harvest depends on the corn header. There are many different corn headers depending on the number of rows and the spacing. As I said most plant with a 30" spacing. I imported a 6 row corn head with 30 inch spacing and a 6 row corn head with a 36" spacing from the US. The 6 row, 30" one has been modified to a 4 row, 30" and is used on the 6620. The 6 row, 36" one has been modified to a 5 row, 30" and is used on the 9500. The main reason for modification was to make the header no wider than the front wheel base of the combine to provide access to small fields. It was not an easy modification as the housing had to be decrease in width, the auger cut and lowered and the auger flooring cut and reshaped because we also changed the angle of the gatherers to allow a shallower cut. All of the corn harvesters are set for 30" spacing where I live. We would not be able to modify them to cut 24" spacing do the the width of the gatherers and I don't think that JD sells a header that does. After looking at the pictures of Farmer Joe's Kubota set-up, it might be able to do 24" centers..

Last year we charged 600 baht/rai for harvest loaded in your trucks. If you wanted us to transport it to your buyer it would cost extra depending on distance. This year we will also buy the corn since we have built a weigh station and drying area.

I'm pretty confident if needed you could use your sunflower front to harvest corn Wayned.

A modification i made to mine this year was to put angled c channel under the fingers so when the front was at its lowest point the fingers face upward so the cobs roll into the auger,not out as before.

[wayned]

We basically did the same thing with the gatherers on the corn headers. We actually rotated the square channel the the gathers are attached to by about 15 degrees which raised the tips of the gatherers to allow a shallower cut. But by doing this it lowered the auger floor so the auger had to be lowered which required extensive modification to the attach points and drive mechanisms. In addition the auger flooring had to be cut, reshaped and re-drilled. A seemingly simple job that turned into a nightmare keeping me awake one night figuring out the right way to do it rather than the Thai Rube Goldberg way that started the day before.

I think I leave the cornflower head alone as we have two functioning corn headers.

[jmicaelk]

Hi, any of you guys use irrigation ?? and especially drip irrigation both for water and to add fertilizers ??

[farmerjo]

Not using any irrigation at this stage.I have 17 rai im in the process of levelling then that will be irrigated just flood to start.

[kickstart]

Hi Jmicaeck

As wayned said you need to sit down and work the costs out is any of the land rented ,of is it" family" land ,one thing I read you are hoping to grow maize in a rice field ,in or around the rainy season ,rice fields are designed to keep water in ,for maize you need to get rid of the water , and have a well drained field ,and that dose not mean a 3 disc plough ploughing as deep as he can ,and bring up all the crap soil from underneath you need a tine to rip the land open , and drain the water out, that could be a big cost .

If any of the land is rented ,and you will be using a 3 disc and a 7 disc plough, and irrigating if it is dry ,I can not see you making any money ,costs will be to high ,look at Farmerjoes posts on direct drilling ,cost are a lot less ,I am certain it is the way to go .

As for irrigating we have been like wayned with 80% of the first crop getting ploughed in no rain ,a few crops that did produce a yield were irrigated ,one farmer I spoke to last week only got 6 bart /kg for her crop ,and that was irrigated ,she did not make a lot on that ,if anything , drip irrigating would work ,but the pipe work would have to be taken up between crops I have seen sugarcane farmers do that it looks a slow, ball ache of a job.

[jmicaelk]

Thanks Kickstart, well these fields only have rice 1 time per year cuz they do not have enough water, only part of the fields get flooded when a small klong floods over, but never in dry season. Family land and it just sits the rest of the year, they don't do enough for the land i think, just about 450 kg rice per rai and I think corn can do better, but I will have to take soil samples before i decide anything.

I don't intend to bring up bad soil, but the soil needs to be worked over with lots of cow manure and chicken spill, but I am all for testing direct drilling as well if the fields look ok. What is the cost of that and how about fertilizers ??

6 baht per kg sounds really bad, was that 14.5% moist or ??

For surface drip using drip take is easy to take up, the main and sub main pipes can be put so not in the way for harvest or planting, or at least moved away without too much work. Or can go with subsurface drop, (SDI)

Still lots to go before this gets the green light, will go up and look at the water wells and small water dams first to see how they hold up, if no rain about 800,000 l water per rai to get out

[wayned]

You will never get 6.5% moisture in corn just harvested. It will most likely be 30% or higher. I haven't checked the price recently but the mill would buy the corn for 9.5 baht at 14%. We buy corn and dry it. We would pay 7.2 baht/kilo for 30% and a sliding scale from there as the moisture content increased at the rate of 0.13 baht/percent decrease. We would buy corn at 36% for 6.4 baht/kilo. The price would be adjusted as the rate at the mill increased/decreased.

We haven't bought any corn yet this year as there hasn't been any to buy. The first planting was all ploughed under and was just replanted about a month ago due to mother nature's temperament.

[farmerjo]

As KS says theres a bit to it.I understand you see the land sitting idle and feel its a waste.

My advice would be do say 4 or 5 1 raiplots of different methods in the first year and see what does best for you and your area.More water and fertilizer doesnt always mean more yield. Good luck and we are always here to help.So the first bit of help is dont go and spend over 200000 on a 88 rai crop straight up if you are unsure.

[farmerjo]

Just a quick one on the sub surface irrigating.That would be my preferred option however on more research about maintenance and rodent damage.I think i will leave that alone.

[kickstart]

Thanks Kickstart, well these fields only have rice 1 time per year cuz they do not have enough water, only part of the fields get flooded when a small klong floods over, but never in dry season. Family land and it just sits the rest of the year, they don't do enough for the land i think, just about 450 kg rice per rai and I think corn can do better, but I will have to take soil samples before i decide anything.

I don't intend to bring up bad soil, but the soil needs to be worked over with lots of cow manure and chicken spill, but I am all for testing direct drilling as well if the fields look ok. What is the cost of that and how about fertilizers ??

6 baht per kg sounds really bad, was that 14.5% moist or ??

For surface drip using drip take is easy to take up, the main and sub main pipes can be put so not in the way for harvest or planting, or at least moved away without too much work. Or can go with subsurface drop, (SDI)

Still lots to go before this gets the green light, will go up and look at the water wells and small water dams first to see how they hold up, if no rain about 800,000 l water per rai to get out

I should have said ,that women ,as wayned said, sent her corn in with high moisture ,what percent I do not know ,I think she did not know either ,just gets docked by the buyer I would say it would be about 30%.

The only way you are going to send 14.5% moisture crop is to harvest it then store the crop your self ,then send it ,but with the hassle of handling the corn twice ,having decent storage facilities ,that can keep water and rats out ,I would prefer to sell it off the back of the combine ,get docked a few stang/ kg and let someone else dry the corn.

[jmicaelk]

Thank you all, I am planing on trying out on 6 rai first to see how they germinates, after that move on with more, have to see in the end how many rai will end up doing.

Yeah SDI cost too much, so I will just use drip tape.

There is place to dry at least for some time, hopefully in april they will come of pretty dry and closer to 14.5%

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

It is raining ,and we where 45 minuets from bring in some grass to chop for silage ,will have to wait until tomorrow now ,to chop the grass .

So, been looking at that packet of maize seed ,germination it says is 90% ,and the seed is 90 % pure ,I would say the any gaps in the rows would be more down to the drill ,not metering the seed correctly ,often thought that, with the seed not being round ,does not flow/ drop down into the spout at an even time ,or it gets stuck across the hole for a second ,hence the gap .

When I worked on the farm in the uk we used a pelleted seed for sugar beet ,that flowed ,well ,and most of the time there was an even row .

Beet seed is not round ,and before pelleted seed ,the above use to happen ,all equalling uneven rows .the main reason why they developed pelleted seed.

[BSJ]

The last 4 days it's rained and 2 nights ago the wind knocked over a lot of corn in our little crop....and as it' s a little crop I've been out there staking, picking it up and tying it! I just hate to let things go to waste.

Part of the problem was there were gaps where the seed didn't germinate for some reason.

I had just finished a light bar for the tractor and thought I was going to have nothing to do for a few days!

The light bar allows us to use the airbus at night to spray the insects...hopefully we will get more.

[wayned]

It's been raining a gentle rain almost every evening here with no wind or torrential downpours. The crop that I didn't replant really looks good - commentators jinx, it'll probably sleet and snow tonight with 100km winds. BSJ I must say that yours is in need of something just short of FJ's slasher!

[farmerjo]

Had to duck off to work for a few days,had 79mm of rain since been away.

My corn looks terrible,17 days and still only 3 inches tall,suffering from no starter fertilizer and waterlogging.

Think i've got a few weeks to access it before spraying it out and changing to more sunflowers.

Pictures of a couple of healthy crops down the road.

Have found out there's 9 gypsum mines near the Phichit/Narkon Sawan border of the provinces.

@BSJ,is that your fancy purple variety,i wondered where all my pliers went

Are you misting the bugs.

@Wayned corns coming along nicely.

@KS did you get your corn in.

Edited September 14, 2015 by farmerjo

[kickstart]

The photo does not do it justice, about 35 days ,over 2 meters tall

For the past 15 years it has been bamboo land ,the bamboo all flowered and died ,we pulled out the roots then used a single leg subsoiler to subsoil the land ,then 3 legs as a cultivator .to work the land ,then a trailer load of cow manure ,meaning a typical trailer pulled by a Kwie Lec ,then cultivate it in ,a final going over with the Dutch harrow never used a plough ,and planted , the seed watered it once ,to get the seeds going ,the misses only put on a compound fertilizer last week .

We had heavy storm 2 days ago ,which knocked down some of the plants .

It looks leggy we think due to the surrounding bamboo and to the right of the picture 4 coconut trees ,almost growing ,looking for light .

In this area crops are looking very well, lets hope the farmers get a good price for they crop

[BSJ]

It's been raining a gentle rain almost every evening here with no wind or torrential downpours. The crop that I didn't replant really looks good - commentators jinx, it'll probably sleet and snow tonight with 100km winds. BSJ I must say that yours is in need of something just short of FJ's slasher!

DSC01077.JPG

I am a victim of circumstance wayned. The wife and I planted the corn before we sprayed the weed killer...which we were to do the next day...the next morning por died at 7.10am and every plan went out the window. 5 days later we went out but the corn had sprouted!

It's OK, after staking I've only lost 2 plants. It took longer to split the bamboo that it did to drive em in, PU the stalks and tie them!

Coming on now is another lot of waxy corn with creamy cobs and some purple ones of unknow origin the SIL gave me.

ATM the whole district is a sea of corn and rice broken up by numerous mango orchards.

Late afternoon and it's raining again. Gentle rain. Second time today it has rained. The tanks and ongs are filled, the well has a few metres of water and the one a few houses down on the BIL's vacant land has water and all the wifes dams are full.

[BSJ]

Had to duck off to work for a few days,had 79mm of rain since been away.

My corn looks terrible,17 days and still only 3 inches tall,suffering from no starter fertilizer and waterlogging.

Think i've got a few weeks to access it before spraying it out and changing to more sunflowers.

Pictures of a couple of healthy crops down the road.

C360_2015-09-14-17-31-00-001.jpg

C360_2015-09-14-17-31-47-746.jpg

Have found out there's 9 gypsum mines near the Phichit/Narkon Sawan border of the provinces.

@BSJ,is that your fancy purple variety,i wondered where all my pliers went

Are you misting the bugs.

@Wayned corns coming along nicely.

@KS did you get your corn in.

Hi FarmerJo, yes it's the Pacific Seeds 111. My brain keeps trying to figure out what to do, grow eating corn which can be sold in the big Bangkok markets or do what everyone else does and grow corn for pig feed and sell to the local buyer. And what variety is best, and is it worth the trouble of processing ourselves....like set up a micro processing plant and vacuum bag it then freeze it.

Using the airbus we spray insecticide on the mango trees planted next to the corn every 9 or 10 days so I would imagine that's killed anything that could damage the leaves...although some leaves have been attacked, but I haven't seen the culprits.

To much thinking. One day my head will explode!

[farmerjo]

Just rain,rain and more rain here.