Maize and Rotational Crops

[farmerjo]

This will be the average size across the paddock.A little dissapointing but better than nothing,still at least 2 weeks away from harvest. 

[BSJ]

As I type this the rain drops are falling on the roof! We received a lot of rain last night and it would appear same again tonight. Probably just in the nick of time for us and many others in the district!

Now, where did I leave that bag of corn seed???

[kickstart]

is anyone buying the cob from the facility where the grain is taken off the cob, is there a market for bulk cob that anyone is aware of?

Called in today .at one of our biggest buyers of maize,he said a lot of the cobs ,from him ,go to make ethanol alcohol ,for gasohol ,how there how they do that I do not know.Others go for animal feed,put through a hammer mill, a cheap way for feed companies to bulk a feed out.

Near us is corn drying plant ,they use the cobs for fuel in they ovens,better than using local wood,as fuel.

Have seen the cobs made in to charcoal, makes good charcoal ,but does not last long,does produce a lot of heat.

@ FJ .

The reason I called in ,I saw a local farmer taking in a load of maize ,on the cob,,it come from an area with a large lake ,he irrigated the crop , he was getting 5.50 bart/kg ,he would make bugger all on that ,cost of irrigating alone would curtail his profit margin ,what the moisture was I would not know,but with no rain ,I would say 20%? .

If it is 5.50 batr/kg now,what will be when the main crop comes in,that is, if we have a main crop this year, 5 bart? ,I can see our local Tor-Kor-Sor,being busy ,this year ,yet again.

[wayned]

5.5 on the cob is not really a bad price as the plant must remove it from the cob and dry it . We are building a drying station which is near completion and the numbers being tossed around are 9 - 9.5 baht. But there is no corn! Nobody has replanted since the failed attempt in late April as there has been absolutely no rain. Our beasts will have to go looking for work elsewhere.

[farmerjo]

5.5 on the cob is not really a bad price as the plant must remove it from the cob and dry it . We are building a drying station which is near completion and the numbers being tossed around are 9 - 9.5 baht. But there is no corn! Nobody has replanted since the failed attempt in late April as there has been absolutely no rain. Our beasts will have to go looking for work elsewhere.

Wayned,

For your Co-op,when buying maize,is there a standard matrix.

Colour,moisture and screenings to determine price or is it a moisture test with a visual inspection.

What i'm interested in is to get the best price at say 9.5 baht a kilo.If its shelled,clean and uniform kernals,what is the maximum moisture you take without dockage?

Also can you give some basic insight into the process once its out of the farmers hands.You obviously have your standard procedures to shell,dry,store and transport.

Ie do you have contracts to fill or sell to a bigger Co-op pool..(you dont have to answer)

@ KS I would say anything coming in on the cob even though a dry year would still be 27-35 percent moisture this time of year.I dont think i've ever seen cob delivered and not been docked for moisture.

.

[kickstart]

Farmerjoe

When we sent maize ,allways on the cob we never got docked for moisture,what the moisture was I do not know,on what you are saying must have been 25-35%.

You also said that you send your maize 35 km to the buyer,a long way ,from where I am within a 20km radius we have 4-5 buyer's all with thrashing and cleaning equipment, so the competition is high,not so fussy about moisture,as they want the crop ?.

Round here we have 3 big feed mills they all buy in maize in bulk,but what I was taught that corn when stored in bulk must not exceed 15% moisture,prevent over heating,so how the buyers of maize from the farmers get it down to 15%,without an oven ,in a wet year,I will pass on that one,and without losing money,buying in at 30% mc,selling at 15% mc ,they must lose some money,over to our waned.

Waned

You said that 5.50 bart/kg not a bad price,I can see your point,with the co-op costs,but if you are renting land ,round here one guy is paying 30 000 baht for 25 rie,he has all his own equipment, but ,5.50 to him is not a lot, even a farmer who owns his land ,that is not a lot , especially if he has someone in to do all the work, I know it is catch 22, co-op pays a good price ,they get the crop ,but co-op profit margin is going to be low ,co- op pays a low price ,good for they profit margin, but farmers find another buyer who pays a better price, co- op does not get the quantity of crop to cover they costs.

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

Cant really answer your moisture questions till i get a sample taken off,hopefully in next couple of days.

Found this on the internet,not thailand but wonder if the same principals apply.

www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/livestoc/as1484.pdf

You are spoilt for choice in your area,we have more traders around but would have to go further which i will do for the first assesment to find an even critirea.

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

Cant really answer your moisture questions till i get a sample taken off,hopefully in next couple of days.

Found this on the internet,not thailand but wonder if the same principals apply.

www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/ansci/livestoc/as1484.pdf

You are spoilt for choice in your area,we have more traders around but would have to go further which i will do for the first assesment to find an even critirea.

Sorry,could someone link that website to make it user friendly for viewers.

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

Thanks for the link,something I have not seen before, I think not for Thailand.

We use to use prop-corn ,that was propionic acid,corn tipped out of a trailer through an applicator ,of propionic acid,then in to store,grain up 30% moisture,can be treated , grain could be kept for a long time. The grain when put through a roller mill ,mixed with other raw ingredients ,made a good ration and cattle liked it .

But the problem was ,the acid,it would slowly eat through anything metal , and the fumes,could be a problem

kelvincave.com/grain/grain.../moist-grain-treatment-propcorn-nc

The above link is a new prop-corn a lot safer to use, I think it would work in Thailand.

The likes of CP will not use it ,but some of the smaller feed mills could.or a few farmers who store they grain,waiting for a better price, it would work well.

[farmerjo]

Well got the harvester ready yesterday and wouldn't you know it,34mm of rain in the afternoon.

 

Thought i'd take a sample this morning to kill the boredom.Well its still probably 2-3 weeks away from being ready.

 

Moisture way to much but would think the wet grass in the sample would contribute to that as well.

 

Pulled up a plant,3 metres tall,roots around 300mm long but cob still only 200 mm long.

 

Think thats due to the lack of moisture and nitrogen in the vegative growth stage.

 

The better half with the maize plant as well as some other pictures

. 

[kickstart]

Looking at that moisture,and the length of the plant,best thing to do ,send down to me ,and I will make silage out of it ,and my beef cows will say Kop-Khun-Ka.

Looking at the length of the roots ,I would say the roots where going down looking for moisture,cobs not full again short of water and/or short of fertilizer ,or not enough rain to wash the fertilizer in poor uptake by the plants,especially P And K fertilizers,being basically ground rock,they need the water to dissolve the P And K ,and if my memory is right,N is needed by the plant ,and Pand K for cob development?.

I put some straight urea on my grass at the end of May no effect at all ,not enough rain .if I had put on a compound,the P and K would still be on the surface, not gone in to the soil, and I have seen that in the past.

[BSJ]

Those little Kubota's do a pretty good job but I'll bet you will still pick-up 2x25L buckets of cobs per rai. Bloody cobss seem to jump out of the pick-up reel!

[farmerjo]

Those little Kubota's do a pretty good job but I'll bet you will still pick-up 2x25L buckets of cobs per rai.  Bloody cobss seem to jump out of the pick-up reel!  

 

Hi BSJ,

 

Agree with you there.

 

Trying to work out how to improve it.There's 2 fundamental problems.

 

The fingers are too close together and the corn gets jammed at the cutter bar,also the reel on the front is belt driven and cant handle large plants when trying to cut the stalks low.Have a few ideas to sort it out.

 

Would like a proper corn head for it as the rest of the machine is faultless.

 

Been a bit shaky this afternoon as was cutting grass with my L2201 when out of nowhere i was staring at a big black snake about a foot from my

face,looked down to take it out of gear and it was tangled around the clutch pedal so crapped myself and baled off with it still going which wasn't easy with the steel wheel extensions on it.The tractor pulled up about 3 metres from a creek with the wheels still spining.Heading back to the shed

to get a rake i found the other half it. 

 

One thing i learned was get out of the habit of wearing shorts and thongs on the tractor.,

[kickstart]

I was out this evening,come across a combine ,combining a crop of maize,next to a now very dry ,stream /small river,depending on time of year,the crop had been irragated

This was only a 7-8 rie field, and the dust was flying,so moisture ,could not be to high,I asked how much he was getting,180 bart per "Tang " which is a 15 kg weight ,not so dissimiler to our bushal weight , which works out at , 12 bart/kg,but the cobs where not full,and the grains where not full and plump,up the road a littal ,was another fiield already cut,guss they got the same price.

A good price, but supply and demand is working here, no supply ,and a demand , the above will make a bit,may be enough to put in another crop , next week is the start of the Thai lent ,as the misses said ,when a lot of farmers are nomally harvesting maize,this year they will hardly be any maize to harvest.

[farmerjo]

I was out this evening,come across a combine ,combining a crop of maize,next to a now very dry ,stream /small river,depending on time of year,the crop had been irragated

This was only a 7-8 rie field, and the dust was flying,so moisture ,could not be to high,I asked how much he was getting,180 bart per "Tang " which is a 15 kg weight ,not so dissimiler to our bushal weight , which works out at , 12 bart/kg,but the cobs where not full,and the grains where not full and plump,up the road a littal ,was another fiield already cut,guss they got the same price.

A good price, but supply and demand is working here, no supply ,and a demand , the above will make a bit,may be enough to put in another crop , next week is the start of the Thai lent ,as the misses said ,when a lot of farmers are nomally harvesting maize,this year they will hardly be any maize to harvest.

Hi KS,

That price sounds good.

I reakon i will be lucky to cover costs(time will tell) as i came across a lot of cob damage around the outside of the crop.

Looks like bird damage,will get a photo to show tomorrow,thats what i was goimg to get when i encountered that critter above so abanded it for the day.

[farmerjo]

Birds???

 

[goldfinger]

Hi FJ,

i think it must be mice, rats or something similar.

Birds dont eat it "perfectly" down to the bottom of the cob.

[kickstart]

Hi FJ,

i think it must be mice, rats or something similar.

Birds dont eat it "perfectly" down to the bottom of the cob.

Fj said 2 days ago something was eating the cobs,my first thought was rats,looking at those pictures ,I would say rats,as goldfinger said birds do not strip a cob like that.,we have had that problem ,plants on the headland,near a large ditch with water in,ideal conditions for rats.

Go to your local maket and get a few cage traps for rats,use a piece of maize as bait.

[slapout]

racoons if present will strip a corn crop down to nothing left but stocks. if you have field corn and sweet corn planted seperately but close to each other they will get the sweet corn as it ripens and then get after the fiekd corn which stays sweet.tender for a shorter time frame and is normally a few days behind sweet corn. Picked at right time field corn is nearlly as tastey as sweet corn. we would hook up a boom box and turn the music up and that combined with a good dog, a shotgun and a spotlight would equate a about equal shares for coon and people

deer population can take a toll also. Have no idea if your areas have either of thiese free loaders just some animals that can damage /ruin what could feed your family for quite some time.

[farmerjo]

No coons or deer here,just birds,snakes and rats.(some coons but they will come after harvest)

Will look for some traps when in town next,Fil uses the old method of fine wire trace connected to a stick.

Knowing him,he's catching just enough so he has rat all year round to eat.

Old picture but thats what they look like here.

[wayned]

With the drought there are three things that are more plentiful here.

Ants, by the millions, everywhere.

Field mice since there is no corn to eat they have all migrated to the house.

And snakes looking for the mice to eat!

Still working on the weigh station, there's been a delay from the scale supplier.

Looks like another 10 days before the computer is available.

Getting the beasts ready to harvest, but there's nothing to harvest.

We've had no rain so the corn that was planted and ploughed under hasn't been replanted.

FJ I gaven'y answered your questions about moisture and prices because I can't get a straight answer. Surprise, surprise@

[murrinman]

crystal ball time just finished sowing 40 odd rai prices come dec im hopping for anything north of 8 bt for grain fingers crossed any guesses about price??

cheers from lampang

[farmerjo]

crystal ball time just finished sowing 40 odd rai prices come dec im hopping for anything north of 8 bt for grain fingers crossed any guesses about price??

cheers from lampang

Welcome Murrinman and Goldfinger to the thread.

8 baht,we all hope it will be up there.My local is still saying 9.5 baht/kilo yesterday.

One thing on our side is yields should be alot better for the rainy season.

Will be interesting to see if those who failed on there first crop have the confidence to go again.

It would be nice to know the outcome of the rotten rice saga.(may try to use that as a supplement to the shortage

of maize in animal feed?)

Everybodies still trying to get a handle on the selling structure of maize,as KS says there's two markets in enthanol

and animal feed.

I'm still at least 10 days from harvest so will report on what i get,if the rats haven't eaten it all.

As my second crop will be late this year i'm looking for a shorter growing variety but most i find are in the

105-115 day schedule.

What variety did you put in Murrinman? and is it rice land converted or undulating country.

[wayned]

It rained a little Tuesday night and again in Wednesday night but not enough to even make the dirt road a muddy mess. Yesterday afternoon some of the locals

replanted. I don't know whether it was out of frustration or just boredom. I walked one field in sandals and the moisture was only about 2-3 cm deep on top of the

dust underneath. When I walked out of the field, sandals still on my feet, I took them off, banged them together and any of the dirt was gone. It's dripping a little

now but unless the skys open up I hold off replanting. I was thinking last night that I just might not replant and wait and only plant some sunflowers in September.

[murrinman]

cheers for the welcome this year same as last CP888 and the ground is a combo of semi flat and sloping ground but none of ex paddy

still not much rain up this way had about 30mm a week ago and now just grey days and a few light showers cab only hope

[kickstart]

It rained a little Tuesday night and again in Wednesday night but not enough to even make the dirt road a muddy mess. Yesterday afternoon some of the locals

replanted. I don't know whether it was out of frustration or just boredom. I walked one field in sandals and the moisture was only about 2-3 cm deep on top of the

dust underneath. When I walked out of the field, sandals still on my feet, I took them off, banged them together and any of the dirt was gone. It's dripping a little

now but unless the skys open up I hold off replanting. I was thinking last night that I just might not replant and wait and only plant some sunflowers in September.

Where we are past 2 days have brought out the corn drills,like you we have not had any real downpours ,just the odd shower and drizzle,I think a lot of farmers are looking at the calendar ,thinking half the year has gone ,nothing yet growing,most having ploughed in there last crop ,no rain, but in a normal year crops planted in April/May will be harvested about now now ,with the second crop going in around about now.

But, a lot of farmers like to plant they crop early ,as they will get the best price before the price drops as the bulk of the crop come in ,it makes you think ,if now is the new April(for this year),a bit of rain lets plant get a good price in 100 days ,shorly we must get some rain now.FJ is saying 9,50 bart/kg,bet you that price will drop,that wold be 7.50 bart/kg on the cob ,a good price,looking at my crystal ball ,7.50,for grain, and 5.50 for maize on the cob, in 2 months time.

As for maize varieties, shorter than 105-115 days I think you will out of luck,for us in the uk ,when dairy farmers started to grow maize for silage ,20 years ago, use to plant in May, not frosts then, and harvest in October 180 ish days,now with new varieties that has come down some what.I think that 115 days is fairly quick ,from sowing to a full cob ,would have thought any quicker you would have smaller cobs, equaling a lower yield.

As for sunflowers ,it is a popular crop around here ,central Lopburi .most years they do not get drilled much before October ,they are a dry season crop ,do not like a lot of water,I would say September a bit early,do they grow a lot where you are?, our second crop use to be mung beans,did ok to

[wayned]

I actually live equidistant between Nakhon Sawan and Lopburi, just off of highway 1 about 6 kilometers before the highway 1 - highway 11 junction,

about 100 kilometers from Lopburi.

Normally we plant in late April/early May as we did this year, but ploughed under, and harvest in late August. Once harvested the silage is ploughed under,

sunflowers are planted, usually late September/early October. Nobody plants a second crop of corn other than those that grow small irrigated plots of sweet corn.

Then it's on the the sugar cane harvesting. After the cane harvested it's prepared or replanted for next year's growth. Then it's back to watch the Sunflowers.

Once they are harvested the fields are prepared for the next corn planting usually adding some chicken house sweepings which we also buy/stock and

sell by the truckload.

This year all bets are off. It did sprinkle a little again last night but no significant moisture. It's now 0342, dry, 27.8 degrees with 77% humidity

I might plant the Sunflowers earlier just out of shear boredom and frustration with what's been happening with things this year..

[farmerjo]

Even though this is a maize thread i have a question about sunflowers as they could be a good rotational crop for maize.

KS and Wayned suggest you can plant later in the season.

I presume your talking for oilseed.

If there getting planted late august/september,are they being irrigated or just relying on sub soil moisture to grow the plants out?

Wayned,i presume you harvest with your beasts and do you have to make many adjustments to your machines.

ie Wind speed,sieve screen size,concave angle and rotor speed? or will a machine like mine set up for maize pretty much go in and get a reasonable

sample?

I asked because the extended weather forecast doesn't look promising for the rest of the year and feel with my late early planting of maize i might

have missed the boat for a second maize planting by the time i harvest.

Regards

[wayned]

We use a different header for the sunflowers not the corn header. I don't know the model, highly modified, but I'll try to go down and find out and take a picture if I can

ever find some freakin batteries for the camera that work!

[kickstart]

Farmer Jo

Sunflowers as I said they are sown from October and in to November ,I have seen many crops that have no rain at all,just cool season morning dew and as you said sub soil mosture.have seen some crops irrigated,more to get the seed to germinate, and a wet field keeps the Pigeons off.

Most farmers use to sow sunflower seeds direct in to maize stuble, using a 7 disc plough and a sower ,just 3 plastic tubes comeing down from a seed hopper ,seed hopper driven by a land wheel, seed being droped in frount of the disc ,the disc burying the seed ,not a good system,not a constant depth,seed not sown even (most farmers also sow mung beans this way with again not good results).

Last year a lot of farmers direct drilled they crop with good results,good spacings ,and an even crop,what size plate they used in the drll, I do not know,but I would have thought a maize seed plate would do.also never seen a field sprayed for anything

And as we say in the uk ,you shut the gate ,I would say 80% of farmers do not put on any fertilizer.

Since cain and cassava have been grown the sun flower acarage has droped,which has been a problem,Pigeons,you get to the new year not a lot for Pigeons to eat so a crop of sunflowers is just right for them,one guy near me had thje only field of sunflowers ,in the area Pigeons had a field day ,from 7.00am on wards it sounded like a Thai all day funeral ,with him letting off bangers ,what they use at funerals,all day long,some farmers pay guys as bird scarers

As wayned said the combines use corn headers,as for combine setting ,would have thought reduce concave ,and wind speed mositure not a problem ,biger problem geting the combin driver to set the combine up right ,and to drive slow enough,so he does not put a lot of the seed out the back of the machine.

As with most crops in Thailand the price flutuates ,last year price was 19 bart/kg if mosture was high? 20 bart/kg if a low mosture.

Do you have a market to sell sunflower seed? ,if you are the only grower,try to sell just a few ton could be a problem,without having to drive a long to find a buyer

Regards

KS.