2010 Crackdown: Suthep submits evidence of 'blackshirts' to NACC

[sweatalot]

Its a disgrace that these things were not taken into account before. Everyone knew that about the black shirts, living in BKK i have seen them too. The previous government denied their existence.. guess why..... But its proven without a doubt they existed. This only showed that the investigation by the previous government was unfair.

I haven't heard any redshirts comment on that, but they call all the things that go against reds political.. that figures.

The government had nothing to win by violence.. only the man in Dubai.

There was an agreement after new elections were promised.. but the man in Dubai told his thugs to not honour the agreement and released his blackshirts... The rest we know.

Does not mean the army did not make any mistakes but there is at least shared responsibility here.

"The government had nothing to win by violence.. only the man in Dubai. "

You couldnt be more right

[rubl]

"denyle" depending on how one writes it can be a river for which Egypt is well known. Other meanings seem to be subject to the Selective Memory Loss syndrome

Edited April 22, 2015 by rubl

[sweatalot]

"blackshirt militants" = government false flag operation to provide "justification" for the use of deadly force against unarmed civilians

Where are the dead blackshirts and where is the direct evidence linking them to the protesters?

Yeah isn't it amazing that all the soldiers who died, died from being hit by rocks not by bullets from these numerous gun-wielding militants.

.

ROCKS??!! Seriously??....Try grenades and bullets...supply one, genuine report of death by rocks..or crawl back under your ROCK !

ever heard about sarcasm?

[GeckosDiving]

My question is: With all this photographic and video "evidence", why is it that not one single MIB has ever been identified or arrested?

Easy.. they were wearing baklava's and were aligned with the government that came to power after the 2010 incident. The PTP has denied existence of the black-shirts because it did not support their claim of a bad military attacking innocent peace loving redshirts.

So, is your claim the the killing in May was the "good military attacking violent redshirts"? If that is the case, where is the evidence? Just one body, or even a bullet wound suffered by the military before they opened fire in their "life fire zone"? You cannot because it doesn't exist.

[In Town]

Its a disgrace that these things were not taken into account before. Everyone knew that about the black shirts, living in BKK i have seen them too. The previous government denied their existence.. guess why..... But its proven without a doubt they existed. This only showed that the investigation by the previous government was unfair.

I haven't heard any redshirts comment on that, but they call all the things that go against reds political.. that figures.

The government had nothing to win by violence.. only the man in Dubai.

There was an agreement after new elections were promised.. but the man in Dubai told his thugs to not honour the agreement and released his blackshirts... The rest we know.

Does not mean the army did not make any mistakes but there is at least shared responsibility here.

"The government had nothing to win by violence.. only the man in Dubai. "

You couldnt be more right

"the mann in Dubai". That is so pathetic. You think so little of Thai people that you believe they are all controlled by some all powerful puppet master? That they have no autonomous will? Are you really that racist?

[robblok]

My question is: With all this photographic and video "evidence", why is it that not one single MIB has ever been identified or arrested?

Easy.. they were wearing baklava's and were aligned with the government that came to power after the 2010 incident. The PTP has denied existence of the black-shirts because it did not support their claim of a bad military attacking innocent peace loving redshirts.

So, is your claim the the killing in May was the "good military attacking violent redshirts"? If that is the case, where is the evidence? Just one body, or even a bullet wound suffered by the military before they opened fire in their "life fire zone"? You cannot because it doesn't exist.

No all those grenades lopped around BKK before the attack of the military at buildings and people did not happen. I wonder if you were even in Thailand at the time. I was.. and living in BKK, before the military operation there were many bombs and grenades thrown at and exploded at buildings and people. But go living the red dream.

[MiKT]

Why hasn't the Bangkok Post used a picture of these black-shirts, instead of a less relevant shot. Don't they have in their library any of the shots (either photos or stills from video footage) taken at the time by various agencies - including, I gather the BBC - and already published on alternative news websites such as the Alt Thai News Network?

Or was it considered that such damning evidence would be prejudicial to a fair trial?

What's this story about a fair trial being planned for the fat little Mussolini clone?

Edited April 22, 2015 by MiKT

[In Town]

My question is: With all this photographic and video "evidence", why is it that not one single MIB has ever been identified or arrested?

Easy.. they were wearing baklava's and were aligned with the government that came to power after the 2010 incident. The PTP has denied existence of the black-shirts because it did not support their claim of a bad military attacking innocent peace loving redshirts.

So, is your claim the the killing in May was the "good military attacking violent redshirts"? If that is the case, where is the evidence? Just one body, or even a bullet wound suffered by the military before they opened fire in their "life fire zone"? You cannot because it doesn't exist.

Wow! What remarkable skills! You learned to add an image from the inter webs to your post! I humbly bow to your clearly superior intellect.

[AleG]

My question is: With all this photographic and video "evidence", why is it that not one single MIB has ever been identified or arrested?

You haven't been paying attention?

BANGKOK: -- Five members of the so-called mysterious “Men in Black” who battled with troops at Kok Wua intersection near the Democracy Monument during the red-shirt protests in April 2010 resulting to the death of Romklao Phuvatham have been arrested by police.

In case you haven't, or would rather have history rewritten, this is what the "Men in Black" were up to on that day:

[In Town]

My question is: With all this photographic and video "evidence", why is it that not one single MIB has ever been identified or arrested?

Easy.. they were wearing baklava's and were aligned with the government that came to power after the 2010 incident. The PTP has denied existence of the black-shirts because it did not support their claim of a bad military attacking innocent peace loving redshirts.

So, is your claim the the killing in May was the "good military attacking violent redshirts"? If that is the case, where is the evidence? Just one body, or even a bullet wound suffered by the military before they opened fire in their "life fire zone"? You cannot because it doesn't exist.

No all those grenades lopped around BKK before the attack of the military at buildings and people did not happen. I wonder if you were even in Thailand at the time. I was.. and living in BKK, before the military operation there were many bombs and grenades thrown at and exploded at buildings and people. But go living the red dream.

I was here, yet somehow I don't recall those on the morning May 19. Please see this to refresh your memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

[aussieinthailand]

Yu'p men in black, they were there absolutely no question.

The question is, were they the ones that started the shooting? if so where they provoked or were they defending themselves?

Were they all there for the redshirts or is it possible SOME were planted there to cause trouble therefor justifying the deadly response? A tactic commonly used!

And after several court rulings that the military were responsible for many deaths.

Was any video evidence of military firing at unarmed protectors shown to the commission? or was it only selected videos shown? We all know the answer to that one.

Any video evidence of the emergency volunteer's in the temple being targeted?

How about the shooting of journalist's? and a certain general shot in the head by a sniper, was that shown?

Australia has had some big protests before but has a habit of NOT calling in the military to shoot and kill people.

So just how is the government of the day NOT responsible for the deaths?

And finally for the record yet again, I have NO support RED or YELLOW for those that use violence on innocent protesters and volunteers to achieve their political will.

But isn't that exactly what was sanctioned by the government on the day? use deadly force.

"Were they all there for the redshirts or is it possible SOME were planted there to cause trouble therefor justifying the deadly response?"

In answereing this question, you should ask yourself who benefited from provoking the military into deadly response.

"Australia has had some big protests before but has a habit of NOT calling in the military to shoot and kill people."{

I can think of only one instance where protesters had armed men conspicuous in their ranks, in all other cases it was understood that "peaceful protest" excludes weaponry. Do you remember what happened at the Eureka Stockade?

"In answering this question, you should ask yourself who benefited from provoking the military into deadly response."

You've not really given your answer but rather posed a separate question, so ok I'll give an opinion, (not stating or claiming as fact.)

The government had quite a lot to gain by provoking a deadly response, ie, an end to protesting and keeping themselves in a government that was not chosen by the people. Possibly the military as they have by their own history shown their will to keep taking power via a coup and all the benefits that that entails.

And lets not forget the elite that simply refuse to accept the working class to be able to vote and choose a government that is inclusive rather than BKK is the center of the universe and policy's that befit them and their family and friends, after all they're only stupid, poor, dirty, red buffalos that should not be able to vote.

How's that for asking who may have benefited by provoking deadly force?

Now as for your last Q. "do you remember what happened at Eureka Stockade?"

No I don't remember as I wasn't there but I was taught of it's history, also I lived in Ballarat for several years, and being a gold miner for several years it has a certain inters for me, as it is remembered by some as the birth place of democracy for Australia as well as the birth place of VFL now AFL. and finally were the common man can join together and overcome the ruling elite class, has a few similarity to the protesters here maybe, ( common man, elite ruling class, democracy, rights to vote,) what do you think?

[In Town]

My question is: With all this photographic and video "evidence", why is it that not one single MIB has ever been identified or arrested?

You haven't been paying attention?

BANGKOK: -- Five members of the so-called mysterious “Men in Black” who battled with troops at Kok Wua intersection near the Democracy Monument during the red-shirt protests in April 2010 resulting to the death of Romklao Phuvatham have been arrested by police.

In case you haven't, or would rather have history rewritten, this is what the "Men in Black" were up to on that day:

Hilarious photoshop fail!

[AleG]

My question is: With all this photographic and video "evidence", why is it that not one single MIB has ever been identified or arrested?

You haven't been paying attention?

BANGKOK: -- Five members of the so-called mysterious “Men in Black” who battled with troops at Kok Wua intersection near the Democracy Monument during the red-shirt protests in April 2010 resulting to the death of Romklao Phuvatham have been arrested by police.

In case you haven't, or would rather have history rewritten, this is what the "Men in Black" were up to on that day:

Hilarious photoshop fail!

It's not a "Photoshop fail", it's your denial kicking in; you have proven yourself to be incapable of accepting facts that go against your biases.

[robblok]

Easy.. they were wearing baklava's and were aligned with the government that came to power after the 2010 incident. The PTP has denied existence of the black-shirts because it did not support their claim of a bad military attacking innocent peace loving redshirts.

So, is your claim the the killing in May was the "good military attacking violent redshirts"? If that is the case, where is the evidence? Just one body, or even a bullet wound suffered by the military before they opened fire in their "life fire zone"? You cannot because it doesn't exist.

No all those grenades lopped around BKK before the attack of the military at buildings and people did not happen. I wonder if you were even in Thailand at the time. I was.. and living in BKK, before the military operation there were many bombs and grenades thrown at and exploded at buildings and people. But go living the red dream.

I was here, yet somehow I don't recall those on the morning May 19. Please see this to refresh your memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

Your have lost it giving wiki as a source, don't you know wiki can be edited by anyone and that Thaksin had Robert Amsterdam and others on the payroll. There were even paid for posters here on the board during during the last problems with the PTP.

Goebbels would love people like you.

[halloween]

My question is: With all this photographic and video "evidence", why is it that not one single MIB has ever been identified or arrested?

There are several answers to this. Firstly, with the change in government, all the investigation of red and black shirt criminal activities were ceased immediately.

Secondly, although their identity is known to their employer/s, it would not be in their interest to reveal it lest the relationship cause embarrassment.

Thirdly, although their identities are likely known by some of the red shirts with whom they camped, red shirts are reluctant to reveal this because they don't see that having armed men as part of their protest, using military weapons against the security forces, was the cause of the resulting lethal response, a lack of insight shared by some on TVF. Remember the red mantra (aka the big lie) "We dun nuffink rong!"

[SoilSpoil]

my guess is that the real Men in Black have disappeared of the face of the earth. They know too much.

[Docno]

Yu'p men in black, they were there absolutely no question.

The question is, were they the ones that started the shooting? if so where they provoked or were they defending themselves?

Were they all there for the redshirts or is it possible SOME were planted there to cause trouble therefor justifying the deadly response? A tactic commonly used!

And after several court rulings that the military were responsible for many deaths.

Was any video evidence of military firing at unarmed protectors shown to the commission? or was it only selected videos shown? We all know the answer to that one.

Any video evidence of the emergency volunteer's in the temple being targeted?

How about the shooting of journalist's? and a certain general shot in the head by a sniper, was that shown?

Australia has had some big protests before but has a habit of NOT calling in the military to shoot and kill people.

So just how is the government of the day NOT responsible for the deaths?

And finally for the record yet again, I have NO support RED or YELLOW for those that use violence on innocent protesters and volunteers to achieve their political will.

But isn't that exactly what was sanctioned by the government on the day? use deadly force.

"Were they all there for the redshirts or is it possible SOME were planted there to cause trouble therefor justifying the deadly response?"

In answereing this question, you should ask yourself who benefited from provoking the military into deadly response.

"Australia has had some big protests before but has a habit of NOT calling in the military to shoot and kill people."{

I can think of only one instance where protesters had armed men conspicuous in their ranks, in all other cases it was understood that "peaceful protest" excludes weaponry. Do you remember what happened at the Eureka Stockade?

Re the Australia comparison. I'm not fully disagreeing with you, but do note that Thais have more than one example in living memory (before 2010) in which the army killed/massacred unarmed protesters. As a result, they--Thai anti-government protesters--are likely to be more 'defense-minded' than their Australian counterparts, especially when surrounded by soldiers.

[rubl]

SNo all those grenades lopped around BKK before the attack of the military at buildings and people did not happen. I wonder if you were even in Thailand at the time. I was.. and living in BKK, before the military operation there were many bombs and grenades thrown at and exploded at buildings and people. But go living the red dream.

o, is your claim the the killing in May was the "good military attacking violent redshirts"? If that is the case, where is the evidence? Just one body, or even a bullet wound suffered by the military before they opened fire in their "life fire zone"? You cannot because it doesn't exist.

I was here, yet somehow I don't recall those on the morning May 19. Please see this to refresh your memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

Your have lost it giving wiki as a source, don't you know wiki can be edited by anyone and that Thaksin had Robert Amsterdam and others on the payroll. There were even paid for posters here on the board during during the last problems with the PTP.

Goebbels would love people like you.

Even our local Photo Journalist Nick Nostritz described the grenade attacks on soldiers on the 19th and how vanderGrift seemed to have a deathwish running around with the military. The Canadian was lucky though, he survived. Looking at the photos a soldier next to him may have lost the use of his left arm.

"As to what i would feel if one of my family members would have been killed by a grenade of Red Shirt armed militants. Well, i had several very close calls when i was nearly blown up by some of those grenades myself, the closest on May 19, where the first of the rain of grenades that killed a soldier and wounded Chandler Vanergrift exploded only two meters from me, but was fortunately most likely a training round as there was no shrapnel. I was also during the Silom grenade attacks on the side of the Yellow Shirts while the grenades came down.

So, yes, i am more than aware of the reality of Red Shirt violence than you will ever know, if you are lucky."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637500-abhisit-suthep-face-more-murder-charges-over-2010-strife/page-4#entry6377205

[In Town]

Your have lost it giving wiki as a source, don't you know wiki can be edited by anyone and that Thaksin had Robert Amsterdam and others on the payroll. There were even paid for posters here on the board during during the last problems with the PTP.

I was here, yet somehow I don't recall those on the morning May 19. Please see this to refresh your memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

No all those grenades lopped around BKK before the attack of the military at buildings and people did not happen. I wonder if you were even in Thailand at the time. I was.. and living in BKK, before the military operation there were many bombs and grenades thrown at and exploded at buildings and people. But go living the red dream.

Goebbels would love people like you.

Well, if anyone can edit it, why don't you fix it so we will all know the truth?

Goebbels would probably prefer people who defend the use of the military to control civilian populations rather than those that oppose it.

[robblok]

Your have lost it giving wiki as a source, don't you know wiki can be edited by anyone and that Thaksin had Robert Amsterdam and others on the payroll. There were even paid for posters here on the board during during the last problems with the PTP.

I was here, yet somehow I don't recall those on the morning May 19. Please see this to refresh your memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

No all those grenades lopped around BKK before the attack of the military at buildings and people did not happen. I wonder if you were even in Thailand at the time. I was.. and living in BKK, before the military operation there were many bombs and grenades thrown at and exploded at buildings and people. But go living the red dream.

Goebbels would love people like you.

Well, if anyone can edit it, why don't you fix it so we will all know the truth?

Goebbels would probably prefer people who defend the use of the military to control civilian populations rather than those that oppose it.

You lost the plot mate, even redshirt reporters reported about the grenades being thrown and you accuse people of photoshops and now you are insinuating Wiki can't be edited.

You have no credibility.

To add.. you username was made just around the time the paid for posters appeared at Thaivisa.

Edited April 22, 2015 by robblok

[In Town]

SNo all those grenades lopped around BKK before the attack of the military at buildings and people did not happen. I wonder if you were even in Thailand at the time. I was.. and living in BKK, before the military operation there were many bombs and grenades thrown at and exploded at buildings and people. But go living the red dream.

o, is your claim the the killing in May was the "good military attacking violent redshirts"? If that is the case, where is the evidence? Just one body, or even a bullet wound suffered by the military before they opened fire in their "life fire zone"? You cannot because it doesn't exist.

I was here, yet somehow I don't recall those on the morning May 19. Please see this to refresh your memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

Your have lost it giving wiki as a source, don't you know wiki can be edited by anyone and that Thaksin had Robert Amsterdam and others on the payroll. There were even paid for posters here on the board during during the last problems with the PTP.

Goebbels would love people like you.

Even our local Photo Journalist Nick Nostritz described the grenade attacks on soldiers on the 19th and how vanderGrift seemed to have a deathwish running around with the military. The Canadian was lucky though, he survived. Looking at the photos a soldier next to him may have lost the use of his left arm.

"As to what i would feel if one of my family members would have been killed by a grenade of Red Shirt armed militants. Well, i had several very close calls when i was nearly blown up by some of those grenades myself, the closest on May 19, where the first of the rain of grenades that killed a soldier and wounded Chandler Vanergrift exploded only two meters from me, but was fortunately most likely a training round as there was no shrapnel. I was also during the Silom grenade attacks on the side of the Yellow Shirts while the grenades came down.

So, yes, i am more than aware of the reality of Red Shirt violence than you will ever know, if you are lucky."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637500-abhisit-suthep-face-more-murder-charges-over-2010-strife/page-4#entry6377205

Thank you for linking to that post by Nick. He had a very clear view of the violence and reading all of his work will clarify many issues for you and other posters on TV.

Also, just to clarify, the wounding of Chandler Vandergraft occurred well after the crackdown commence, so should not be seen as its proximate cause.

Edited April 22, 2015 by In Town

[robblok]

I was here, yet somehow I don't recall those on the morning May 19. Please see this to refresh your memory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Thai_military_crackdown

Your have lost it giving wiki as a source, don't you know wiki can be edited by anyone and that Thaksin had Robert Amsterdam and others on the payroll. There were even paid for posters here on the board during during the last problems with the PTP.

Goebbels would love people like you.

Even our local Photo Journalist Nick Nostritz described the grenade attacks on soldiers on the 19th and how vanderGrift seemed to have a deathwish running around with the military. The Canadian was lucky though, he survived. Looking at the photos a soldier next to him may have lost the use of his left arm.

"As to what i would feel if one of my family members would have been killed by a grenade of Red Shirt armed militants. Well, i had several very close calls when i was nearly blown up by some of those grenades myself, the closest on May 19, where the first of the rain of grenades that killed a soldier and wounded Chandler Vanergrift exploded only two meters from me, but was fortunately most likely a training round as there was no shrapnel. I was also during the Silom grenade attacks on the side of the Yellow Shirts while the grenades came down.

So, yes, i am more than aware of the reality of Red Shirt violence than you will ever know, if you are lucky."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637500-abhisit-suthep-face-more-murder-charges-over-2010-strife/page-4#entry6377205

Thank you for linking to that post by Nick. He had a very clear view of the violence and reading all of his work will clarify many issues for you and other posters on TV.

He just destroyed your argument that there were no grenades thrown and no violence from redshirts.

[Docno]

I think what some of us are missing here is that when you get protests this big, fundamental, and wide in scope, you will inevitably have different factions emerge. Within both the leadership and the masses you will get both hawks and doves, and probably several shades in-between. I was even part of a university protest (weak comparison, I know) in my youth and saw such factionalism myself--the original leadership wanted to simply have loud protests but a faction emerged that stormed the adminstrative building and took over the president's office, causing a fair bit of damage. It was this faction that got all the attention, though they did not represent the majority of people involved. We also saw more violent factions emerge at some the Occupy protests a couple of years back.

So I don't hold to conspiracy theories suggesting that the MIB were government plants, etc. But we also have to be careful about assuming that they were a construct of the broad 'red leadership' and had their full support/approval [though they would have naturally wanted some defensive capabilities knowing the history of anti-government protests in Thailand]. And their presence does not explain or justify the killing of unarmed civilians, foreign journalists, and nurses...

[mike324]

Al Jazeera was the only network that actually filmed MIB with guns opposite side of soldiers. All the rest of the other networks were too busy covering about right to protest, "peacful protest", army being violent, etc.

There are numerous amateur videos of MIB with guns too, many have been taken down from youtube from some unknown reason.

I could dig up a couple of videos if people are interested.

Not only that Thaksins lawyer, Robert Amsterdam flooded the internet with pro PTP articles. So many of the western media are mislead by whats going on to some extent.

[robblok]

@Rubl

Thank you for helping us show this misguided individual the light.

He goes from no violence or grenades to accepting it.

[halloween]

Well, if anyone can edit it, why don't you fix it so we will all know the truth?

Goebbels would probably prefer people who defend the use of the military to control civilian populations rather than those that oppose it.

The Nazis didn't use the military to control the civilian population. Before and after they were elected, they used their armed militias and co-opted police and secret police to do that. Now who does that remind you of?

[In Town]

ostritz described the grenade attacks on soldiers on the 19th and how vanderGrift seemed to have a deathwish running around with the military. The Canadian was lucky though, he survived. Looking at the photos a soldier next to him may have lost the use of his left arm.

"As to what i would feel if one of my family members would have been killed by a grenade of Red Shirt armed militants. Well, i had several very close calls when i was nearly blown up by some of those grenades myself, the closest on May 19, where the first of the rain of grenades that killed a soldier and wounded Chandler Vanergrift exploded only two meters from me, but was fortunately most likely a training round as there was no shrapnel. I was also during the Silom grenade attacks on the side of the Yellow Shirts while the grenades came down.

So, yes, i am more than aware of the reality of Red Shirt violence than you will ever know, if you are lucky."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/637500-abhisit-suthep-face-more-murder-charges-over-2010-strife/page-4#entry6377205

Thank you for linking to that post by Nick. He had a very clear view of the violence and reading all of his work will clarify many issues for you and other posters on TV.

He just destroyed your argument that there were no grenades thrown and no violence from redshirts.

Clearly you haven't read Nick, who actually destroys your argument.

[In Town]

As I've mentioned before, there were a few armed people among the red shirts. We know that because of the grenades shot at the MRT and the one that wounded Chandler. I don't deny that. What I do deny is that there was active conflict between opposing armed forces, or that shooting by red shirt provoked the crackdown, I also deny that it can ever be right or justified to end a demonstration by killing people.

You argue that the military only responded after coming under fire from the red shirts, and that the people they killed (many with head shots) were armed militants. I dispute that.

[robblok]

He just destroyed your argument that there were no grenades thrown and no violence from redshirts.

Clearly you haven't read Nick, who actually destroys your argument.

You said no grenades on civilians and army by redshirts.. now one of your own posts that he has first hand experience with grenades killing soldiers and being thrown at civilians by the redshirts.

Now that kind destroys your argument of peaceful protesters.

Clearly your a prime example of redshirt intellect.

[robblok]

As I've mentioned before, there were a few armed people among the red shirts. We know that because of the grenades shot at the MRT and the one that wounded Chandler. I don't deny that. What I do deny is that there was active conflict between opposing armed forces, or that shooting by red shirt provoked the crackdown, I also deny that it can ever be right or justified to end a demonstration by killing people.

You argue that the military only responded after coming under fire from the red shirts, and that the people they killed (many with head shots) were armed militants. I dispute that.

The grenades and bombs were there before the military action. Had those red terrorist been peaceful there would not have been grenades.

You are turning like a flag in the wind now your untruths have been exposed.