Business Hassles

[mark lamai]

thanks again all for your replies.

just really makes me wonder if this country will actually progress into a reasonable society, or just become more and more messed up.

it seems the signals are mixed,

all thais love the King, who is a decent and admirable man,

but seem to use the rich, powerful corrupt bisinessmen/politicians as role models.

Pesonally I don't believe that poverty is the cause,

many poor societies are still reasonable people,

it seems to be an entrenched and acceptable norm in a lot of Thai society to be selfish

and to use/abuse other people for personal gain.

One only has to look at how Burmese refugees are exploited and often killed,

and the Thai authorities could not care less.

I think it is about role models and what is acceptable behaviour as agreed by a society in general,

not necessarily written in law.

Where is the Nelson Mandela/Aung San Suu Kyi/Ghandi for Thailand?

someone to show the way.

[Vespa]

I have a small bar in Lamai.

same type of bar next door is owned and run by Thais.

you know the cheek to jowel 4 metre wide shophouse style.

just been in here for 2 months.

the gentle folks next door often play music very loudly through a very bad system,

so its not just loud, it sounds awful.

it drives me nuts and means it is very difficult to talk to my customers when sitting outside,

and I can't hear my own music.

last night I asked my cashier (a Thai woman) what to do.

Can I talk to them?

No!

What can I do?

Nothing!

After more questions the reason finally became clear.

They are Thai and can do what they want, I am Farang and cannot complain or say anything.

I tried a music war for 10 minutes and drowned out their music with mine,

a not terribly subtle hint which achieved nothing.

On leaving, my cashier said "be careful, because you stay alone in the bar"

A warning that they might get really nasty.

From my beginning here I have bent over backwards to be nice and helpful.

Giving them free drinks, free use of motorbike, free internet access, helping with cocktails making ,

free prints of photos I take, etc.

other rudeness includes:

moving their chairs onto my part of the apron sitting there and resticting my customers' access.

A while ago I got very sick of this, i asked their cashier if I could talk to her, that's all,

she shouted "No" and ignored me, so I explained to the ladies and men there that I don't want them to sit in my bar area, the cashier's response was to shout "you don't use my water", (a hose on their tap used to clean the apron ), as if I care.

the shop on the other side are their friends, and I have a daily stream of people walking through my bar.

Unannounced and without an hello, they and any friends sit in my chairs and watch my TV.

Money was stolen from the bar , someone from there would have the knowledge and opportunity.

I had one lady (apart from the cashier) working in the bar and they persuaded her to leave my bar and work in theirs, she was not beautiful, and they have more than enough ladies for the small number of customers.

this apparently is very bad behaviour and I have been warned not to do such a thing myself.

Now my feelings are that they can go and f... themselves.

there must be a very deep-seated dislike/hatred of farangs in these people.

They obviously want my business to fail.

What I find is that here on Samui at least, most of the Thai people I meet are very greedy and resentful of the farangs, but forget conveniently that the only reason they have a business or ,like many, have become quite rich, is because of the farangs.

Any insights into Thai mindset would be appreciated.

Bear in mind that these people are uneducated and from a low class part of the social structure.

I guess what really p's me off is that we would not do that to them in my country.

Conclusions:

1. Thai friendliness is a hypocritical lie perpetrated on farangs to take their money.

2. Uneducated Thai people are really quite stupid and unable to think.

3. There are some nice Thai people but are far outnumbered by the stupid greedy ones.

Please do not dismiss this as "another anti-Thai diatribe"

Examine it and see if there is any TRUTH.

If you knew anything about Thailand , you would never have opened a low level business like that.

[udon]

Mark, your story replicates one in Chaweng, it was managed by a friend.

What did you do prior to purchasing the bar?

It sounds like you didn't use due diligence.

ie: sit in and outside the bar for 3-6 weeks prior to purchase.

*******************

PS, ignore The Donzo, he has spent a total of 6 weeks in 6 months in Thailand and is now an expert on all things Thai, oh, I forgot, he has a Thai GF in Sydney.

[Donz]

Mark, your story replicates one in Chaweng, it was managed by a friend.

What did you do prior to purchasing the bar?

It sounds like you didn't use due diligence.

ie: sit in and outside the bar for 3-6 weeks prior to purchase.

*******************

PS, ignore The Donzo, he has spent a total of 6 weeks in 6 months in Thailand and is now an expert on all things Thai, oh, I forgot, he has a Thai GF in Sydney.

Bulldust, People who stay there too long seem to go blind, I know more about Thailand then alot of long time stayers

[udon]

Bulldust, People who stay there too long seem to go blind, I know more about Thailand then alot of long time stayers

Ok, here's a beer coaster, write it all down & you'd still have enough space for a few other jokes.

[Donz]

Bulldust, People who stay there too long seem to go blind, I know more about Thailand then alot of long time stayers

Ok, here's a beer coaster, write it all down & you'd still have enough space for a few other jokes.

Cant handle the truth hey

[jing jing]

Mark, your story replicates one in Chaweng, it was managed by a friend.

What did you do prior to purchasing the bar?

It sounds like you didn't use due diligence.

ie: sit in and outside the bar for 3-6 weeks prior to purchase.

*******************

PS, ignore The Donzo, he has spent a total of 6 weeks in 6 months in Thailand and is now an expert on all things Thai, oh, I forgot, he has a Thai GF in Sydney.

Really, what on earth gave you the idea you could successfully run a girlie bar in Lamai in the first place? Had you not heard about the locals' attitude toward foreigners on Samui prior to purchasing this "business?" Are you not aware of the ratio in Thailand of successful farang bar owners to failures?

Of all the businesses to get involved with, and of all the places to choose to start a business, you seem to have chosen the one most certainly guaranteed to come to grief.

I would imagine your problems are just beginning, and are much more likely to get progressively worse than go away.

Sorry for the negative post, but there's not really much else to be said other than cut your losses and get out while the getting's good.

[pedro01]

thanks again all for your replies.

just really makes me wonder if this country will actually progress into a reasonable society, or just become more and more messed up.

and the Thai authorities could not care less.

I think it is about role models and what is acceptable behaviour as agreed by a society in general,

not necessarily written in law.

Where is the Nelson Mandela/Aung San Suu Kyi/Ghandi for Thailand?

someone to show the way.

This from someone that runs a bar full of hookers - pot, kettle, black ?

Is this acceptable by society in general ?

[billd766]

thanks again all for your replies.

just really makes me wonder if this country will actually progress into a reasonable society, or just become more and more messed up.

and the Thai authorities could not care less.

I think it is about role models and what is acceptable behaviour as agreed by a society in general,

not necessarily written in law.

Where is the Nelson Mandela/Aung San Suu Kyi/Ghandi for Thailand?

someone to show the way.

This from someone that runs a bar full of hookers - pot, kettle, black ?

Is this acceptable by society in general ?

Pedro

I went back to the OP post 1 and I could only find that he had 1 girl apart from the cashier working for him and that was the one that went next door.

Where did you find a bar full of hookers from?

Read posts carefully before repyling, it sometimes helps.

Edited September 6, 2006 by billd766

[Beavis and Butthead]

Low class and uneducated people, no matter what their nationality, have a tendancy to act like boneheads. However your own behaviour can aggravate this to a greater or lesser extent. Can you think of any ways in which you may have antagonised them in the first place?

Yeah he did something to antagonize them, he opened a business next door and is taking precious baht from their pockets. I'm blown away by people questioning whether the OP did anything to provoke this other than open his bar. I am not surprised by the behavior of the Thais in any way shape or form. However I am in total agreement with your cashier that their is absolutely nothing you can do about it short of closing down. It is completely idiotic to fight it as that has only downside. Look at this as a tuition payment. You took your chance and this is what you have. your situation blows dude, I wouldn't want any part of it

[Beavis and Butthead]

I might be reading this wrong and if so, sorry . From what I gathered, you just opened this bar next door to another bar 2 months ago and now you are having problems with said bar ?

Call me kooky but this is not a Thai thing. Anyone in any country would have a problem with this.

I suggest you move.

The method of driving the guy out is not conventional. It is very scumbaglike

[Ulysses G.]

these are the sort of things that potential bar owners dont investigate and dont know about .

sure they want you to fail ,they might even undercut prices to drive you out of business and then laugth their heads off.

Thais do this stuff to each other too.

There is a small massage parlor near the night bazaar that probably gets 5 customers a day and has really low prices; Someone came along, opened right across the street and undercut their prices. Now both are sittting there desperate and empty.

Can't anyone here do anything but copy existing businesses?

[ding]

That is not the way foreign businesses and workers are treated in America. But Thailand is not America, thank the cloud beings.

Sell if you can OP. But go without causing them to lose face and plot revenge on the foreign invader...

Lessons cost money whether learning to play Miles or taps.

my .02

sorry for the headaches man

[LoveDaBlues]

Your concept of the proper running of a bar and their concept is obviously different.

That said, it still seems to me their motive is to simply force you out.

Yet another reason not to own a bar in Thailand.

Exception to above: If you can own a bar that also has decent living quarters above and it only loses a little money each month then consider the savings on rent. And you don't have to go anywhere when you want a drink!

[The Skipper]

My guess is the story might end like this.

The cops eventually show up, the neighbors beat the crap out of you.

You then get charged with assault even thought the cop was a witness.

They demand payment to drop the charges.

You then move or repeat above process.

[LoveDaBlues]

Mark, your story replicates one in Chaweng, it was managed by a friend.

What did you do prior to purchasing the bar?

It sounds like you didn't use due diligence.

ie: sit in and outside the bar for 3-6 weeks prior to purchase.

*******************

PS, ignore The Donzo, he has spent a total of 6 weeks in 6 months in Thailand and is now an expert on all things Thai, oh, I forgot, he has a Thai GF in Sydney.

I can't agree with this; it's a good laugh reading the post of a Thai 'expert'. Especially one so humble as 'LORD DONZ'..............................'IS DON, IS GOOD'

[jbowman1993]

Regarding the OP - Sounds like karma to me....

[Donz]

This happends all the time where every you are.

Move your shop. Its the ONLY choice to make

[Ulysses G.]

I can't agree with this; it's a good laugh reading the post of a Thai 'expert'. Especially one so humble as 'LORD DONZ'

I enjoy his posts even though we sometimes disagree.

You can't call him pretentious - that's for sure!

[udon]

I can't agree with this; it's a good laugh reading the post of a Thai 'expert'. Especially one so humble as 'LORD DONZ'

I enjoy his posts even though we sometimes disagree.

You can't call him pretentious - that's for sure!

Don't use big words, you'll confuse him, he's admitted he can't read books.... A bit like Dubya

[poorfarang]

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Another farang opens a bar in thailand, problems arise, money is lost, bar is closed. Rinse and repeat

blah blah blah

Ive read this same post 500 times. Why do farang open bars in the first place. Perosnally I think you will need to move before they shoot you (and they will)

[Scott]

It's one of the difficulties here and it doesn't just happen in business. Some of this is cultural. I live in a house in a relatively nice Mu Baan--(roughly middle class). My neighbors think it's OK to block my driveway, park in front of my place, rather than their own, spray water all over my vehicle while "watering" their plants. etc. etc. However, if I do anything which infringes on their space, it is not acceptable.

Most of the time, it's at a tolerable level. So, I smile and try to make the best of it and hold the line. It's the way things are. I do that because if I get them angry, I will most likely have real problems and more serious problems.

Yours is a business and thus harder to deal with. I think you need to move for your own good and the good of your customers and business.

By the way, if you think poor and uneducated people are difficult to deal with, just mess with the wealthy! Then you will know what real problems are like.

[the swagman]

It's one of the difficulties here and it doesn't just happen in business. Some of this is cultural. I live in a house in a relatively nice Mu Baan--(roughly middle class). My neighbors think it's OK to block my driveway, park in front of my place, rather than their own, spray water all over my vehicle while "watering" their plants. etc. etc. However, if I do anything which infringes on their space, it is not acceptable.

Most of the time, it's at a tolerable level. So, I smile and try to make the best of it and hold the line. It's the way things are. I do that because if I get them angry, I will most likely have real problems and more serious problems.

Yours is a business and thus harder to deal with. I think you need to move for your own good and the good of your customers and business.

By the way, if you think poor and uneducated people are difficult to deal with, just mess with the wealthy! Then you will know what real problems are like.

I am amazed at the posts that come up on this board and am baffled as to where these people live and what they do. They whinge and complain and always have difficulties.

I have lived here for the best part of 20 plus years and yes, I have had problems but <deleted> don't problems happen in the west?

Why do I live here/ Because I don't have problems here that are so earth shattering.

Same <deleted> different place.

I still have to get up in the morning, I still have to eat, I still have to pay bills.

Thais are not like farangs. Thank whoever.

[bkkmadness]

last night I asked my cashier (a Thai woman) what to do.

Can I talk to them?

No!

What can I do?

Nothing!

After more questions the reason finally became clear.

They are Thai and can do what they want, I am Farang and cannot complain or say anything.

I tried a music war for 10 minutes and drowned out their music with mine,

a not terribly subtle hint which achieved nothing.

On leaving, my cashier said "be careful, because you stay alone in the bar"

A warning that they might get really nasty.

Did you ask them in the end, or were you happy with your business advisor's (cashiers) assesement of the situation? You must have expected this situation to arise right? I mean the next bar getting jealous about your one's profits and causing problems. You must surely have been aware this might happen?

What was you plan for dealing with this kind of problem? I'm guessing asking your staff how to solve your business problems might mean you was better off not starting a business in the first place.

[bkkmadness]

It's one of the difficulties here and it doesn't just happen in business. Some of this is cultural. I live in a house in a relatively nice Mu Baan--(roughly middle class). My neighbors think it's OK to block my driveway, park in front of my place, rather than their own, spray water all over my vehicle while "watering" their plants. etc. etc. However, if I do anything which infringes on their space, it is not acceptable.

Most of the time, it's at a tolerable level. So, I smile and try to make the best of it and hold the line. It's the way things are. I do that because if I get them angry, I will most likely have real problems and more serious problems.

What kind of serious problems do you expect if you ask them them not to block your driveway? Your not in constant fear of being shot and killed if you anger the neighbours are you?

When you infringe on their space, how do they let you know it's not acceptable?

[LoveDaBlues]

It's one of the difficulties here and it doesn't just happen in business. Some of this is cultural. I live in a house in a relatively nice Mu Baan--(roughly middle class). My neighbors think it's OK to block my driveway, park in front of my place, rather than their own, spray water all over my vehicle while "watering" their plants. etc. etc. However, if I do anything which infringes on their space, it is not acceptable.

Most of the time, it's at a tolerable level. So, I smile and try to make the best of it and hold the line. It's the way things are. I do that because if I get them angry, I will most likely have real problems and more serious problems.

Yours is a business and thus harder to deal with. I think you need to move for your own good and the good of your customers and business.

By the way, if you think poor and uneducated people are difficult to deal with, just mess with the wealthy! Then you will know what real problems are like.

A good reason to buy at least 1-2 rai for your house. Then you create enough space and use proper design to insure these things can't happen.

Just yesterday I was at a local shop where the wife bought some lunch to be taken home. I waited in the car. While waiting a motorcycle parked directly behind me; the owner went in and sat down to eat; no problem so far. Then, a guy pulls up in a truck blocking my exit to the front. His wife/gf/whatever goes inside to shop and talk....blah,blah,blah with the owners. Meanwhile my wife has come back with her food and we're ready to go. I keep my cool for awhile. Finally the wife gets pissed because we can't leave so she lowers her window and asks the guy in the truck to pull up a little so we can leave. He just sits there.... His wife finally finishes her business (bought a case of Leo and one cold bottle of Leo to drink in the truck) and they pull off. I've found most Thais are great people but there are <deleted> (like this group) everywhere. Heck even in the states you gotta buy a large piece of land to insure you can avoid any screwy neighbors that might come along.

I would never own (rent maybe) in a Thai community where the houses are close together.

[kmart]

Most of the time your sensibilities and feelings are of no concern to a Thai. We are ranked pretty far down the priorities list; but Thais are generally very tolerant anyway.

Going up against them for business may be another matter altogether though. Never invest more than you are prepared to walk away from.

[jdinasia]

Get a broom ... a mop bucket ... and enough potted plants etc to create a semi-sound <and certainly traffic barrier > and deal with it << assuming you haven't done so much damage to the business relationships existing between the bars already

There's an old saying .... "Tall Fences make good neighbors!"

Edited September 6, 2006 by jdinasia

[Pattayatony]

I have a small bar in Lamai.

same type of bar next door is owned and run by Thais.

you know the cheek to jowel 4 metre wide shophouse style.

just been in here for 2 months.

the gentle folks next door often play music very loudly through a very bad system,

so its not just loud, it sounds awful.

it drives me nuts and means it is very difficult to talk to my customers when sitting outside,

and I can't hear my own music.

last night I asked my cashier (a Thai woman) what to do.

Can I talk to them?

No!

What can I do?

Nothing!

After more questions the reason finally became clear.

They are Thai and can do what they want, I am Farang and cannot complain or say anything.

I tried a music war for 10 minutes and drowned out their music with mine,

a not terribly subtle hint which achieved nothing.

On leaving, my cashier said "be careful, because you stay alone in the bar"

A warning that they might get really nasty.

From my beginning here I have bent over backwards to be nice and helpful.

Giving them free drinks, free use of motorbike, free internet access, helping with cocktails making ,

free prints of photos I take, etc.

other rudeness includes:

moving their chairs onto my part of the apron sitting there and resticting my customers' access.

A while ago I got very sick of this, i asked their cashier if I could talk to her, that's all,

she shouted "No" and ignored me, so I explained to the ladies and men there that I don't want them to sit in my bar area, the cashier's response was to shout "you don't use my water", (a hose on their tap used to clean the apron ), as if I care.

the shop on the other side are their friends, and I have a daily stream of people walking through my bar.

Unannounced and without an hello, they and any friends sit in my chairs and watch my TV.

Money was stolen from the bar , someone from there would have the knowledge and opportunity.

I had one lady (apart from the cashier) working in the bar and they persuaded her to leave my bar and work in theirs, she was not beautiful, and they have more than enough ladies for the small number of customers.

this apparently is very bad behaviour and I have been warned not to do such a thing myself.

Now my feelings are that they can go and f... themselves.

there must be a very deep-seated dislike/hatred of farangs in these people.

They obviously want my business to fail.

What I find is that here on Samui at least, most of the Thai people I meet are very greedy and resentful of the farangs, but forget conveniently that the only reason they have a business or ,like many, have become quite rich, is because of the farangs.

Any insights into Thai mindset would be appreciated.

Bear in mind that these people are uneducated and from a low class part of the social structure.

I guess what really p's me off is that we would not do that to them in my country.

Conclusions:

1. Thai friendliness is a hypocritical lie perpetrated on farangs to take their money.

2. Uneducated Thai people are really quite stupid and unable to think.

3. There are some nice Thai people but are far outnumbered by the stupid greedy ones.

Please do not dismiss this as "another anti-Thai diatribe"

Examine it and see if there is any TRUTH.

A lot of what you have said is true.

You are a foreigner in their country you have NO rights, that is why I would never invest money in Thailand in a business or Real estate......

[jing jing]

Right... the other option is to tough it out, using a clever combination of business savvy, street smarts, and Thai-style diplomacy to keep the animosity down and the money trickling in. You can't expect everyone else to adapt to your expectations of how they should behave, because you're playing in their sandbox now. If you could somehow manage to make a total attitude adjustment there is probably an outside chance you'd survive, maybe even prosper. In order to do that, though, you'd need to earn people's respect rather than their hatred, jealousy, and scorn.